I believe this game totally exposed lots of things we've been talking about for a long time.
1. Patrick Beverly is a backup player and should have never been playing over Jeremy in the 4th, ever. This was just absurd and sure looks stupid now. He'll probably end up like Acie Law and Charles Jenkins.
2. The PF position is really really bad. They needed to get a veteran PF like a Jermaine O'Neil at the least. DMo is not ready and Thomas Robinson is just awful. This guy is a lottery pick and can't make uncontested layups. They'll have decent games here and there but they're just too young and not good enough.
3. Harden's D is huge problem for this team. Klay Thompson was just wide up all game. Harden's defensive fundamentals are so bad. He puts in the effort when he feels like it but it is not consistent. There is no accountability for him on D because he provides so much on O.
4. Iso Harden doesn't work against solid D. Klay T. has played him well every game this season. I believe his shooting % against the Warriors is in the 30's.
5. Chandler Parsons is a nice solid player but not all that. Most think he is a better player then JLin which is silly. He is great for a 2nd round pick but Harden and Jeremy really make things so much easier for him. I'd even take Gordan Hayward and Tobias Harris over him anytime.
6. Jeremy Lin needs to shoot close to 15 times per game and needs the ball in his hands more if this team is going to make the playoffs.
The Rox of this year remind of the RUN-TMC Warriors. The RUN-TMC Warriors had Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullin. All three of these guys are better than the Lin, Harden and Parsons combo though Harden is the closest. The interesting thing about RUN-TMC is they lacked a true 4/5 for years. The Rox have Asik and he was better than anything the Warriors ever had.
ReplyDeleteBUT, the comment of getting a PF is funny. You don't get a PF just to catch and finish layups. I think if the Rox had a low post option (Asik or someone else), then the Rox would be lethal. Right now, it's a 3 point shot or drive in offense. The Warriors don't have great low post offense but Lee and Bogut try and can pass too.
I'm surprised at how much Harden is handling the ball. Lin is not the problem anymore. He's shown that he can create shots for himself, create shots for his teammates AND shoot outside. I think it's better for Lin to initiate but that's McHale's call.
2. The PF position is really really bad. They needed to get a veteran PF like a Jermaine O'Neil at the least. DMo is not ready and Thomas Robinson is just awful. This guy is a lottery pick and can't make uncontested layups. They'll have decent games here and there but they're just too young and not good enough.
ReplyDeleteI actually think DMo is very good -- can post up, and shoot the 3 if necessary -- just raw, and not experienced at defense. He is kinda being misused lately, like tonight. If his 3s aren't falling, they should go to him in the post, where he has shown to be excellent.
There is no good backup PF though. Delfino playing the PF spot is silly. He is obviously too small at the position, and he has slow feet, slow with rotations, and he overgambles by reaching in. It's a gamble when he's in -- if his 3s go in, okay, but when they aren't, it's a minus overall.
Right.. i still don't understand why they went away from d-mo in the low post so fast. or rather, why they didn't go back to it more...
Deletei think they should start with that first and get him some touches before he ventures out to the 3pt line.
he does get a bit anxious when he gets the ball down low, though. rushes through his shot a bit but it may be because he doesn't get there often!
4. Iso Harden doesn't work against solid D. Klay T. has played him well every game this season. I believe his shooting % against the Warriors is in the 30's.
ReplyDeleteMcHale always talks about the ball getting 'sticky' and it is never more sticky than when it's in Harden's hands when he is trying to do too much. He also rarely hits cutters, and just holds the ball way too long. The announcers did get one thing right tonight -- you don't bleed out the shot clock when you are behind in the fourth quarter, and that is exactly what Harden was doing.
Lin was shooting hot from 3 point land in the 3rd quarter, Harden didn't give it to him, instead he would rather take it keep the ball and take it inside 2 or 3 defenders. Harden is largely ineffective when he's not getting the foul calls and free throws.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the coaches JLinfan#1 ??
ReplyDeleteDo mo' DoMo.
ReplyDeleteThat guy is a true low post threat who can shoot from all over the court. He's become a very good NBA big man despite bad shooting rookie games like this.
What's crazy is that this is a Kevin McHale team where he's got the towering seven foot post up player he wants, yet he doesn't utilize him!
Agreed, DMo has evolved quite nicely, its aggravating watching a 7ft low post threat misused all game.
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ReplyDeleteAmen to all those points.
ReplyDeleteNon-Lin Rockets got exposed. Jeremy is being exposed too...as a great player who contributes on both ends.
- There's not too much to be done this season at PF. Just keep playing D-Mo for now because he has clear offensive skills and is the least awful rebounder they have at PF.
-Every time Parsons tries to make a play himself (shoot or pass), he should be fined $1000. Meanwhile, he plays great when he simply attacks off the catch from Lin and Harden.
- Today's loss isn't even that bad the more I think about it. 3-1 against the Warriors is fine. What makes me mad is the 8-10 games the Rockets have lost this season because they refused to trust Jeremy in crunch time. They'd either bench him or Derek Fisher in the 2nd and 4th quarters.
- On the bright side, at least Harden is learning to trust Jeremy more. Jeremy STILL needs to handle the ball a lot more. He looked great today despite terrible reffing and missed FTs.
I agree with JLinfan#1 that Harden D is the elephant in the room.
ReplyDeleteKlay Thompson just exposed Harden D with his 6-9 3PT attempts tonight.
Coaches have the maddening strategy of excusing Harden D because his offense is so potent so they deemed him necessary to be on the floor. But if they don't hold him accountable on D as one of the leaders, how would they expect other players to play hard on D?
This is the young Rockets team this season. When they get hot in 3PT shooting, they can come back anytime. If not, they will get blown out. You never know what you will get this this young team. Be ready for the roller-coaster games. Don't pull your hair too much, guys!
Jason Friedman @JasonCFriedman
ReplyDeleteJ-Lin on loss: "We can dwell on it or we can come out and kick the crap out of the next however-many-we-have opponents at home."
Jason Friedman @JasonCFriedman
That'll do it. Didn't see this coming. Warriors win 108-78. Wednesday's already important showdown with Utah now looming larger than ever.
Love the quote from JLin... he knows what to think and say... sign of a great leader and of a winner...
Deleteabsolutely. A leader knows how to rally his troops.
DeletePersonally, I am not interested in pointing fingers at Jeremy's teammates or the coaches.
ReplyDeleteDisheartening loss, yes, especially how flat team seemed to start the game, but Jeremy's midrange game appears to be rounding into form very nicely indeed.
Good teams with real shot blocker protecting rim will probably try and take Harden completely out of game, take away Jeremy's passing lanes, and dare him to beat them with his jump shot alone, so good to know that he can counter that by consistently making the shots they are daring him to take.
Obviously, teammates need to make some of those outside shots and 3 pointers to create driving lanes for James and Jeremy, but as Clyde Drexler has previously said, once he develops that consistent jumper, he could become unguardable.
And remember that Jeremy alone (no Harden) can translate into ugly Miami Heat type game, while James alone (no Lin as second credible playmaker to keep defense honest) driving 1 on 3 into set defense will result in early OKC performance type games. When they work together, and at least some of teammates shots are falling, you get beautiful performances like that OKC win, last Golden State win, or even Minnesota comeback.
Plus, remaining teams Golden State has to play look tougher than those Rockets play.
Warriors Remaining Schedule
DeleteRockets Remaining Schedule
There's not many of you left on this site. Keeping it real!!!
DeleteWrite more. I like you analysis.
Delete*your
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNice but Harden's D still sucks and we are lacking at PF. It's okay to talk about these things. EVERYTHING you mentioned about Lin/Harden have been talked to death on here. Just because the owner of the site doesn't bring it up in this thread doesn't mean we've forgotten about Lin's jumper and overall consistency.
DeleteJlin's jumper wasn't there earlier in the season.
DeleteLooks like he is completely recovered from knee surgery now.
Consistency with which he was hitting those midrange shots looked like his stint with the Big Horns and also during Linsanity 1.0 (e. g. IIRC, during Lakers game at MSG, Lakers started out just sagging off and daring Lin to shoot jump shots and he was making those shots at a high percentage).
Not sure what you're trying to prove. No one's disagreeing with the specific things you mentioned about Lin.
DeleteNot sure Lin had the green light for midrange jumpers earlier in the season.
DeleteMcHale looks like he has eased up on his idealogical purity about layups, free throws, and corner 3s only.
DeleteJeremy just does not look as comfortable / confident shooting those corner 3s vs taking the longer / harder 3 from top of key area. I am sure he will work hard on that in off season, but he does need to be confident in his shot going into playoffs.
Early on (still recovering from knee surgery?), Lin's jumper was off, where shots he would normally make were rimming out. Now they are hitting nothing but net, especially when he pulls up off dribble in rhythm.
If everything else isn't working, and James and Jeremy have to put team on their back to spear-head comeback, it's good to know that Lin can now, like he used to do consistently with Reno Big Horns and during Linsanity 1.0 with the Knicks, take and make those shots consistently and with confidence. You can see Chandler Parsons feeding off of James and Jeremy's lead, and steps up to make some big 3s then. Carlos Delfino, too. Dmo, well I think he is finding out that bursting onto scene like Lin did with Linsanity 1.0 isn't quite as easy as he thought.
Shows that Lin is a special talent (not as individual superstar, as, along with James, clutch team leader who makes everyone around him better). What was true in high school was also true in D-League and over time, hopefully will also prove true at NBA level.
Everyone says he can't be good because he doesn't look like the Peyton Manning of NBA. Fine, I have previously stated that I thought apples to oranges analogy was Eli Manning (runt of the family who never gets considered as elite quarterback, but who just wins, in particular with remarkable ability to deliver ball to right person at right time down field, while under heavy pass rush, and just win).
And as far as I recall, Eli has got 2 rings, Peyton only 1.
:)
Enjoy reading your post, Joe.
DeleteKind of awkward to run a read and react system yet have your players handcuffed from doing anything except shoot corner 3s. The Morey/McHell system is pure nuts.
Houston's offense should get a new name: Read and not act offense.
Houston's defense should get a new name too: JerMer floating funnel defense.
@Joe - ok, cool. I'd add that if coaching had been working with the players, they might have let Lin do shorter Js in lieu of what he couldn't do as well, and we'd have more wins under our belt (and confidence as a team would have been formed earlier).
Deletezxcvb: "Every time Parsons tries to make a play himself (shoot or pass), he should be fined $1000. Meanwhile, he plays great when he simply attacks off the catch from Lin and Harden."
ReplyDeleteIMO, Chandler is at the level of Matt Barnes -- he cuts very well, can shoot the 3, he can finish in transition, can play acceptable defense, and is all around a good basketball player though not exceptional at anything. Like Barnes, he has no handle and should not be managing the ball in transition (coaches think he's some PG, it's ridiculous), and should not be shooting 15 shots a game unless he's being fed the ball for open looks. His numbers are inflated bc he feeds off of the double teams on Harden and Lin, but in the end he's at Matt Barnes' level (though with higher upside since Chandler is younger).
Ah yes, Matt Barnes, that exactly it! I've been looking for the right comparison, thanks for the cheat
DeleteI was watching Clippers last week and it hit me then -- Matt Barnes!
DeleteChandler Barnes Matt Parson
DeleteWatching the Lakers - Kings game...feel really bad for Jimmer. He's gonna get a DNP most likely.
ReplyDeleteSince they got Toney Douglas, he has been getting heavy minutes ahead of Jimmer...Smart's found his new Acie Law and Fredette is the new Lin.
LOL
DeleteOn the Kings fan forum they are drooling over TD and they all think he's far better than Fredette...what a joke.
DeleteMany 'fans' don't watch many games outside of the teams they follow. Even so, what TD is as a basketball player is pretty obvious, even if his shots are going in.
DeleteI just check the score and... WTH happened?
ReplyDeleteShould I be glad I missed the whole game?
Team couldn't hit any outside shots (Dmo was particularly bad).
DeleteJlin spear-headed a spirited comeback attempt in third quarter, but it fell a bit short.
I though James, at least this game, should have deferred a bit to Lin during that comeback since he was rolling. He got a bit into holding ball / trying to play iso ball, and comeback stalled. (I think two surges where they got deficit under 10 points, but Warriors eventually pulled away).
Rockets dug too big a hole (about 20 points at half time) to dig out of against a team with shooters like Curry and Thompson.
Curry was probably extra motivated, not just because Lin seems to have gotten better of previous 3 matchups, but also because Nate Robinson totally shut him down in recent Chicago game.
James seemed to wandering off from Thompson too much, leaving him with wide open 3s that he made at high rate.
Hi guys & gals,
ReplyDeleteI didn't get to watch the game. So just look at the box score Jeremy Lin looked like had a good scoring output with over 50% FG and 3pt shooting.
It was mind boggling to see he had no steals this game and was 0-3 FT. He also only had 4 assists.
Curry exploded for 29 points but he did take 11 3 point attempts and 22 shot attempts, which will net you that many points so I'm not really concerned about Jlin's defense on him. Anyone who takes that many attempts and makes half or almost half of those shots will score that many points regardless of how good defense you played.
What I want to know is how did Jlin only end up with 4 assists? Were his teammates missing shots or having butter finger night?
How did Klay Thompson explose for 26 points? The only way I know he scores a lot is 3 pointers because he can't create his own shot, he's only a good spot up shooter.
Did the Rockets front court get out played? Because Bogut and Lee had both double-doubles vs. Rockets front court had no double double tonight.
How did Curry get 11 assists? Was it based on penetration and dishing in/out or just passes from the perimeter to perimeter where his teammates were making a lot of open 3 pointers?
Did Jarrett Jack smoke the 2nd unit PG(s)? Because he almost had a double double?
What happened to Chandler Parsons? 2-13 FG and 1-6 is a bad shooting night for him? Did GSW game plan against him tonight to take away open looks? And did he force the issue on offense by trying to dribble penetrate?
Dmo and Defino didn't look like they had a good day as well, what happened? Just bad shooting night?
i saw part of the game, mostly the 2nd half. JLin's defense was good. he did not play free-safety. instead, he stuck with curry every step. curry was still able to score because of the screens he got. thompson's 3s were mostly catch and shoot. harden typically play off his man, giving them lots of space to shoot the open 3. i don't recall seeing any pick'n roll plays for JLin during the time i was watching. it was a really bad game for the rockets but i'd rather see JLin have a good game with rockets losing, versus the other way around. when was the last time JLin scored over 20 points back to back games? the warriors game plan was to double-up on harden once he has the ball. that's how harden got most of the assists because he had plenty of opportunities to find the open man. this was also a game where the refs were not going to give the rockets that many foul calls. that took away harden's game.
Delete@Reebok
DeleteThanks for teh 2nd half game recap.
It's sad to see that Rockets didn't continue to run the PnR game for Jlin when it worked effectively against the Suns on the previous game.
Jeremy Lin vs. Warriors Highlights by Blaiyan:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbNeLoX4iiM&list=PLoDrtT-bVm_SbP76HKUFn5vCi4UDiisAQ&index=68
This team is very young and will need time to learn how to handle pressure. Tonight was the first real pressure game for them because it meant so much. Anyone that has played competitive sport knows how hard it is to shake out the nerves in the big games. You just can't imagine how hard it is to overcome that moment. The nerves are firing so fast that sometimes my teeth chatters. You never get over it, you just learn to handle it better the more you are exposed to it.
ReplyDeleteThe best way I can explain it is comparing it to walking across a 20 ft wooden plank. We all can walk across it easily if it is laid on the ground, but put it across the top of 2 skyscrapers and it will make all of us freeze with doubt. The thing we do everyday with absolute confidence becomes a very nervy thing. Lin has the unique ability to handle those nerves better than most. Lebron is the best example of how nerves affected his play in the playoffs for Cleveland.
If we were asked at the beginning of the season about what we hoped for in Lin and the Rox, I'd would have hoped to be in the top 10 challenging for a playoff spot. Lin's recent performances have been making everyone take notice that he is for real and will be around for a long time. Let's hope the Rox make the playoffs so that they can get a chance to feel those nerves and gain some valuable experience for the future.
@ Bob C F Chan
DeleteI understand where you're coming from as a competitive sports player like yourself.
It's good they get this type of game experience now before the playoffs start to get used to the atmosphere.
But I also put the blame on the coaches for not utilizing the PnR more which works best for Jlin and gets everyone going.
@Bob C F Chan: Nice metaphor! I'm going to use that plank example when in need of the Outward Bound team training, faster and cheaper. You should be McHale for a game or 2.
DeleteExcellent post. These kinds of game will give the Rox valuable experience going into the playoffs.
DeleteRox still control their own destiny and can reach the 6th seed. Lin now has 3 dominating games in a row and is starting to make some tough 3s. If you look at his splits hes basically a 40% 3pt shooter right now. You can tell, he's been practicing and his stroke is becoming more consistent and reproducible.
ReplyDeleteHarden felt Lin's push to tie the game and he was trying to get himself in it as well. I don't fault him too much, but if Jeremy has the hot hand keep riding him and let Jeremy find you instead of the other way around.
Overall, these games are gonna happen. Like I said, I saw Warriors in person against the Bulls and they were awful. Curry missed a wide-open-no-one-around dunk.
This is the Lin we have been waiting for. If 4/5 teammates show up then they win easy. Today it was only Lin
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Delete@Stu: agree on the destiny part in hand. In Harden or Lin? :-)
DeleteLakers are just what, half game down? same wins, 1 extra loss.
With 13 games left, Rox will not make above 6th, as they'd have to win 10 and one of the 3-5 would have to lose at least 10.
If they get 6th, are the Grizz, Nuggets, or Clippers better for Rox? Just to go 2nd round would be nice, to settle the nerves as Bob C F Chan said.
http://www.nbaplayoffsbracket.com/2013/index.php
this game exposes one thing: his teammates suck. lin needs a better supporting cast like those that can play defense. i like harden as he provides much needed offense so i give him a break on defense.
ReplyDeleteSo scoring 21pts is excuse for giving up 26?
DeleteHarden needs to be held accountable for his garbage defense. How many players has had career highs against this 'all star'?
What happens during games when he goes cold, which is too often for my comfort? Still chuck up shots and play matador defense?
No one is asking him to become King James, but he should at least give a sh*t on defense.
Harden gives up a lot more than 30 points a game.
DeleteHe gets 40-60 points scored on him every game.
If Harden was averaging 10 and his man scored 40, that's about the point differential he's giving up. That's why I regard him as a max contract SCRUB.
Just to rebut point #1. I don't think anyone ever were so deeply deluded into thinking that PBev is anything but a back up guard. Rather, some people either believe or is prejudiced that Lin plays at or below a back up point guard's ability.
ReplyDeleteThis delusion exhibits itself in McHell's prejudice of "Jeremy is not Linsanity" type of mentality and why Lin had to play the third or fourth scoring option all season long even after his blow out games.
Regarding point 5, Chandler, on a deeper team, would be nothing more than a Novak with enough speed to take advantage of fast break opportunities. Asking him to do more than this is asking for trouble. Down the road, he needs to save his legs, so he has enough lift to hit his jumpers.
On the last point, I'd love to see Jeremy drive first, shoot second and pass last. But, his ability to finish at the rim is predicated that he's partnered up with a PnR partner. So, Lin will need decide who his partner is. And, McHell has to agree to their "marriage" as they will have to get playing time together.
An example scenario would:
1-Lin
2-Parsons
3-Delfino if go small/Montejunas if go big
4-Smith
5-Asik
Shooters on both corners and two bigs to spread the paint. This is good for running a TRUE motion offense where the point guard will have options opened up.
why does lin talk with the mouth guard during the post game interview?
ReplyDeletelol. maybe he is trying to get use to giving orders and talking with it so he can still command with mouthpiece while on the floor.
Delete7. Kevin McHale is not exactly a coaching genius. ;-)
ReplyDelete1. Patrick Beverly is a backup player and should have never been playing over Jeremy in the 4th, ever. This was just absurd and sure looks stupid now. He'll probably end up like Acie Law and Charles Jenkins.
ReplyDeleteI think Beverley's a decent backup off the bench (he's leading the team in 3pt%), but yeah, he should not have been closing 4th quarters over Lin. Major disrespect from the coach.
2. The PF position is really really bad.
Yeah, but I feel that the Rockets are misusing DoMo just as they are misused Lin. Just because DoMo can hit a 3 doesn't mean he should take every open 3 he gets. I think the coaches instructed him to do that.
3. There is no accountability for [Harden] on D because he provides so much on O.
All I ask is that coaches be consistent with every player.
4. Iso Harden doesn't work against solid D. I believe his shooting % against the Warriors is in the 30's.
In the 4 games vs Warriors, Harden is 21-66 (31.8%).
5. Chandler Parsons is a nice solid player but not all that. Most think he is a better player then JLin which is silly.
I'm pretty high on Parsons. He's not a ball handler, but I do he has an great all-around game.
6. Jeremy Lin needs to shoot close to 15 times per game and needs the ball in his hands more if this team is going to make the playoffs.
Too bad the coaching staff doesn't recognize that.
This is all true, both what the op said and what you said.
DeleteI disagree with the op that the PF position is really bad. I think the op means right now it is bad and I agree. But Dmo is a huge long term upgrade over Ppat and Morris, not today, but down the line. Today, I'd prefer PPAT as well, but not in 1-2 seasons.
To me, Dmo is being misued. He should be used like a Tyson Chandler/Euro Amare/Gasol more than a 3 point shooting Euro. He's not there yet today obviously, but he needs the touches and the experience on the floor to get there in 1-3 years.
Problem is, with Asik on the floor, Dmo has to play that 3 pt role to spread the floor. But Dmo is more effective playing Pnr with Lin since he can pick, pop, pass, dunk, etc. Dmo just plays Lin style basketball and doesn't really click as well with Harden...
And that's why Dmo struggles mightily - he needs Lin to set the table for him, and Lin is handcuffed on this team, so far too often Dmo will be a victim of circumstance and look like a scrub far too often relegated to bricking 3's and looking out of place. And when Dmo looks good, usually Lin will look great as well. Their success is somewhat tied together.
Yep totally agree, he is such a good low post threat, AND he can shoot from anywhere, and he's got moves! Talk about being misused.
DeleteHonestly I think PF is fine, what they need to do is pick up Psycho T off the bench. I don't think they need Josh Smith or Millsap right now.
TRob I have reservations about...Not really sure how he fits in, he has bouts of brilliance but is just so spastic with his production.
BTW where's Royce White?
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=235621
ReplyDeleteFor those of u who do not mind going to clutch.. There is an excellent breakdown (with pie chart and all) of harden and Lin assists and TO's this season by a poster named ttnn. Really well done and highly recommend.
Solidz: dude, that's a nice share and timely given today's game and one conclusion - give Lin the ball so we get more higher percentage at-rim shots.
Delete@Etane, 2nd chart says Parsons, Asik, and Del maaybe can create their own shot (19-31% of the time), so that goes to your pregame thread that people on Rox can create their own shot. At 1/3 to half the rate of Harden and Lin.
The turnover numbers here have to be at % of time in last Q or 3 mins, so we take out when Lin is on the bench. Sorry, I know that should be addressed to TTNN, but I don't feel like signing up for CF yet.
Super nice share!
Wow, this guy rocks.
DeleteBasically:
1. Lin tends to not fk up in 4Q unlike Harden, who forces shots and turn into TOs down the stretch
2. Lin is MUCH BETTER BY 100% at protecting the ball than harden
3. Confirms the theory that Parsons is basically benefiting from HardLin as he gets a ton of his FGs off assists from the backcourt, but if he goes cold it puts the team back by a lot if Delfino can't pick up the slack
4. JLin needs to stop travelling :D
5. You need Lin to handle the ball when the game is on the line.
6. FG assist by number is a bit misleading because Lin takes so few shots.
7. Asik is the bane of Lin's assist numbers...
Nice post. Too bad CF posters are too lame to draw those conclusions, even the obvious ones.
Delete@Kenoshi - good catch, the 100% better handle thing (Lin/Harden). Bay Area - you must have been ok with tonight's face saving gesture by our man Lin, for his buddies. I watched the game with my buds, and they were happy with the stat line and GSW win. Me, I'm happy with 3/4 this year, and I hope Lin comes back to the Bay after this contract is up. Curry can be HarDen, and not sure where CT can move but he's a goodie for 3s. Just crazy. I'd up for partial season tix.
DeleteWell all the credit goes to this poster who did a phenomenal job of putting this together. I was really impressed.
DeleteAnother thing to look at, which TTNN pointed out , s that harden loses the ball more often than jlin loses the ball out of bounds. The former is much worse because it probably leads to a fast break the other way.
I think he also wanted to show how many points these turnovers end up costing, but it is likely that hardens TO's generally are more costly.
Occupati0: we here need this data too, to keep the discussion grounded. Sometimes, there's a lot of emotion flying around on this forum and it's all for good reasons. Data is nice as a foundation. Part of the emotion is people grinding losses out on each other, or sometimes, just looking for good things to say. Then the blog format rolls on, and people are accidentally ignored, etc. So, data is nice once in awhile to start building our common base.
Delete@solidz75 ... I get so much from being a Lin fan. So, off season, if I need to motivate myself, maybe I'll do some counts on what is really happening on TOs leading to points on the other side, and of course, scored-against. I don't know why NBA does not do that stat as raw data. Another would be hockey assist, but I dunno. I mean, baseball has so much on the stat-line, NBA could answer some more important numbers to expose full games. Maybe there should be floppy stats, as well as stat-padding stats :-)
Delete... and yes, TTNN's work is very nice. I'd join CF later just to search for Torcan, Mike_Lu, TTNN, and others. I also v much like the fun photoshops ... lightens things up once in awhile, given JLin has so many goofy faces, and there's so much drama they can kid about.
Deletewow, TTNN should post here.he should work for Les or he should be part of the coaching staff. if McHale is not visual on the floor, a glaring pie chart of stat comparison based on cold, hard facts might catch his attention.
Deleteposter might be working as a data research analyst or something like that.
seems like Jeremy likes working with the big guys of whichever team he plays for. he's good friends with David Lee. he had great chemistry with Tyson Chandler.I think if the poster added an FG assist pie chart for Greg Smith and DMo, Jeremy will probably have a big slice in there too.
Delete@joe team
DeleteUsing data to calm down emotions is a very powerful tool. Sports psycologist call it grounding or anchoring. Athletes use triggers to activate lower brain sequences of muscle memory. Lin's shooting trigger begins with a step into a plant. It comes from his ball handling role as a PG. Post up shooting requires a different trigger to initialize his muscle memory for shooting. It's a developed habit. This is why intelligent defenders like Lin will become better at stopping opposing players as they play more against them. Every athlete has their tendencies. An opponent can use it against you, but you can also use it against them if you recognize it yourself. This Knowledge allows you the fake out your opponents.
Choking is one of the most difficult things to coach against. Grounding or anchoring is one way to try and control it. Choking is an emotional response to pressure. It's a fight or flight response that release of massive amounts of adrenalin. Pregame coaching is all about anchoring a player to upper brain triggers. Making a team intellectually understand their roles, giving them set plays to rehearse and preparing them in their upper brian functions to react properly is all about grounding them in logic. The better a team prepares intellectually, the more grounded they are in what needs to be done. (This applies to anything, an important interview, a presentation or a big game). Good coaches use key words as triggers to an anchor. A time out is used to control the inevitable loss of emotional center. It is up to the coach to set up those anchoring key words to reiniatialize his players muscle memories with those pre set anchoring keys.
Another thing this also proves: Lin rewards those who hustles. Parsons/Asik gets the lions share of their FGs from Lin, while Lin doesn't send the ball Delfino's way as much, but I've seen it increase and Delfino has been hustling. That is why even though Lin has highest percentage for Harden, it is still just a mere 10% compared to Asik/Parsons.
DeleteIf asik can actually finish or catch the ball, his FG assisted by percentage from Lin would explode.
This also proves what we've known all along: stagger Lin's time (like they did during the 5 game streak) and Lin's production goes through the roof. But I suspect they can't because SOMEONE needs to offset Harden's terrible defense.
What is more interesting is Lin is steadily improving even though he's being forced to play side by side with a ball dominant SG, meaning he is getting better at creating for himself and taking opportunities. I don't think McHale is expecting that.
@Bob C F: I shall digest. On the surface if it, McHale should have called a time out when Lin brought HOU back with 7-0 run with 5+ left in Q3, after they dropped 2 possessions. Before you know it, it was 15 down. What a coach ... he'll be fine.
DeleteIMO Harden is being given a free pass not to play any defense. What happens when Lin keeps losing his man or can't stop him from getting to the rim ?? That's right, Coach McHale benches Lin immediately for Patrick Beverley to come in and play more "pressure defense".
ReplyDeleteWhat happens when Harden keeps losing his man, and can't stop anybody from scoring ?? ... he just keeps playing for 40 minutes.
How can Harden learn to play defense, if he's rewarded for not playing any, and just focus on scoring ?
I am all for benching Harden, for a better defender like James Anderson. Maybe this will teach him to contest shots and stay with his man.
Brent Yen asked a couple to 4 weeks back if we can find out how many points Harden gets scored on per game, and I've given it some through and maybe in the off-season, I'd watch a few key games and count given there doesn't seem to be good stats on that. But, as Solidz75 posted above, TTNN over at CF is doing some great basic numbers work beyond raw or broad NBA data. If there isn't source raw data for this, only way is to count.
DeleteFor now, given past 6 weeks or so, there is enough hue n cry about this Harden D issue so hopefully, coaching gets it in order. Today to me was a combo of cold shooting, plus some isoH (score w/and 1, 1-3 sec dump to 3-shooter, miss and clock killa) and bad D on Clay Thompson. If shooting had been hotter by just closer to mean, it would have been a game given we were only 5 down with the Linspired 7-0 run (Lin to Parsons 3, Parsons to Lin 2, Lin drive 2).
Who cares at this point. The Rox have "0" (ZERO) chance at doing anything in the playoffs. Even if they could compete, the NBA wouldn't allow them to win and the refs would job them ANYWAYS.
DeleteLin just has to gun and get his stats in his 25 minutes a game. He's been doing a good job of it lately. Just gun away and get your stats Lin.
Recently Mchale is even playing Lin over 30 min a game. That's 5 extra minutes for Lin to gun for his stats.
Just be patient and let Lin hone his game and get his stats. The Rox will either trade him before his contract is up, or they will build more around him. Only 1 of the 2 can happen so let's not worry about Lin.
Currently I'd say there is about a 2% chance Lin resigns with Houston if they let his contract run. Things can change, but Lin aint no dummy. He will walk if he is treated like a chump.
Personally, I would not be surprised if the Rox trade HARDEN this summer for an elite top 5 big & keep Lin around. I said it on here before, and I still stick to it. It's not because the Rox love Lin, but that Harden has more trade value.
While the PPAT and Morris trade will kill the Rox chances of any remote darkhorse upsets in the playoffs this season, the trade allows for Lin to score more points with the remaining options being limited on this team.
So thank Morey for indirectly helping Lin up his stats.
Swinglinezz: I normally like your posts, and parts of this to me are good. Like ... good point on the trades ... PPat/Morris are looking like a loss short term. I'm surprised by the Harden trade idea, as I hadn't read your post on that before. Maaybe ... not sure. I'd think they change out coaching before Harden, because it's harder to get a Harden than a better coach. As for Lin's stat line, for pure Lin fandom, sure. But, I can't enjoy the game unless Rox win, just as Lin can't enjoy a good stat line unless he wins.
DeleteThe whole point in sports for me is to rise above oneself to do something extraordinary. That is how I get inspired, because we can look around at all the people problems in our real lives and get inspired to rise to something great.
Maybe I should just focus on my own stat line too :-) Wisdom from you, spelled sideways to me. I like it!
Well it looks to me that Harden is the biggest bottleneck when it's down to crunch time.
DeleteHe kills momentum on both sides of the court. On offense, he wastes the shot clock and takes hot shooters out of rhythm.
On the defensive end, leaving his man open not only allows for easy shots but the opportunity cost of not stopping the shooter also translates over to the offensive end too as stops generally creates better flow on the offensive end.
I think it's too bad that Houston traded away both PPat and MM. They were key components to how Houston was able to score in bunches at a time. Without their 15-25ft shooting ability, it makes it that much harder to cut down Harden's PT.
1. Patrick Beverly is a backup player and should have never been playing over Jeremy in the 4th, ever. This was just absurd and sure looks stupid now. He'll probably end up like Acie Law and Charles Jenkins.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it, the rockets are not going to win the Championship this season, nor the next. During this rebuilding process McHale wants to utilize as many players as possible, so PB offers a lot of energy off the bench. He is athletic and he passes the ball around just like McHale likes it - a player with nothing to lose. That said, he's not as good a shooter as Douglas and defensively he is just a little be better.
2. The PF position is really really bad. They needed to get a veteran PF like a Jermaine O'Neil at the least. DMo is not ready and Thomas Robinson is just awful. This guy is a lottery pick and can't make uncontested layups. They'll have decent games here and there but they're just too young and not good enough.
Just about all their former PFs were shooters and SOFT. They were not bangers like O'Neal or David Lee. DMO is just a rookie who can pop the three and do a couple of spin moves. Give him time and I think he'll end up not like Ginobilli but maybe like...Turkoglu. Robinson is the interior defensive stalwart to help out Asik when he gets bullied, but I'm not seeing much here either. He's not going to turn into an Ibaka any time soon. The Rockets had the right players last season yet they let them go, I don't see them keeping these 2 unless they suddenly become all-stars.
3. Harden's D is huge problem for this team. Klay Thompson was just wide up all game. Harden's defensive fundamentals are so bad. He puts in the effort when he feels like it but it is not consistent. There is no accountability for him on D because he provides so much on O.
If you have played the game you know it's hard to play at both end all the time, that's why you have team mates, that's why you have team defense. I have never defended Harden but if he was the take care of everything for the rockets, his team mates would just sit, watch and not do much. That said, I think Harden is trying to create himself a Lebron type game...only problem is that I don't think he is anywhere near the level of LB.
4. Iso Harden doesn't work against solid D. Klay T. has played him well every game this season. I believe his shooting % against the Warriors is in the 30's.
I have never liked watching Iso plays from Harden, boring too.
5. Chandler Parsons is a nice solid player but not all that. Most think he is a better player then JLin which is silly. He is great for a 2nd round pick but Harden and Jeremy really make things so much easier for him. I'd even take Gordan Hayward and Tobias Harris over him anytime.
CP is a good player, he's only 2nd year and I think he has done more than Landry Fields ever did last year (though to be fair LF had to start after Melo). I think he's a Rocket keeper for now unless they're trying to raise his stock up for someone else.
6. Jeremy Lin needs to shoot close to 15 times per game and needs the ball in his hands more if this team is going to make the playoffs.
JL's shooting has improved not because he's been trying to shoot so much more but because he's been trying to shoot better - quality over quantity. I do agree that the team should rely on him more often for clutch plays particularly in the playoffs (if they get there), but always have that second guy (PB) ready! I have a feeling that JL might wear himself out during the playoffs because he plays so hard and playoff defenses are quite brutal.
"Just about all their former PFs were shooters and SOFT."
DeleteI mean the PFs they trade this season.
Scola was awesome and never should have left.
Scola is old enough to play for the Knicks.
DeleteHe's not that old (32) and his position doesn't require him to run the floor and play guard. He would've been the Jarrad Jefferies for JL.
DeleteScola is delicate
DeleteJoeTeam: " we here need this data too, to keep the discussion grounded. Sometimes, there's a lot of emotion flying around on this forum and it's all for good reasons. Data is nice as a foundation. Part of the emotion is people grinding losses out on each other, or sometimes, just looking for good things to say. Then the blog format rolls on, and people are accidentally ignored, etc. So, data is nice once in awhile to start building our common base."
ReplyDeleteI really hope the site owner migrates to another format. This blog format makes it hard to have a sustained discussion about anything. It's not worth putting time into writing a good post if it just gets buried by newer threads in 24 hours, sometimes even less time than that. PLEASE CHANGE THE SITE FORMAT.
I agree, why can't you make pages instead of me scrolling down and click "Load more"
DeleteAgreed on the threading needed by now. Would improve conversation, fun, and also. Not sure what blog host wants to do ...
DeleteHarden averages 26 points a game and Parsons 15 a game. But I swear these 2 guys give up much more than that on defense, not exactly against all world opponents every time either. Both are classic stats padders and net negative players.
ReplyDeleteHarden probably needs to score 40 a game and Parsons about 30 to compensate for their lack of D.
DeleteNo wonder they want to shoot so much lol.
I'll bet that the Rockets secret statisticians see those guys giving up a lot more than that, especially Harden.
DeleteMy unstatistical guess: Harden gives up 40ish, Parsons low 20ish.
Here it is again with your outlandish remarks. Who in the NBA scores 40ish on a game-to-game basis at SG let alone on Harden. The same goes for a SF scoring 20ish and on Parsons. Since you enjoy coming up with outlandish notions, why don't you put together some data for all the games thus far on Lin, Harden, and Parsons and see how much the player they were guarding scored.
DeleteIf KT dropped 26 on Harden yesterday, SC dropped 29 on Lin as well. And don't come up with lame excuses like Lin got picked hard when he didn't fight over screens, or Lin was funneling his man when he actually got beat off the dribble by Curry. And finally, don't be claiming that NOONE can score on Lin because if you do you are a shallow person and tells me you knowledge of basketball is not as highly touted as people think you possess. Actually, I'm giving you too much credit. Your basketball knowledge is completely imaginative and lack concrete analysis.
@Continuum, u think SG dropped 29 on Lin? yes or no?
DeleteSnowywbl, and do you think KT dropped 26 on Harden? Ues or No?
Deleteplease, u post first and u said so. yes or no? I did not post anything about who dropped on who. don't be lame.
DeleteGo back through the threads and you will find posters have been posting that KT dropped 26 on Harden. Once you find it, you will know who posted it first. If posters are going to stoop at that level, why not say SC dropped 29 on Lin. I know what you are trying to do. You're trying to make me come down to your level. I'm not going to bite. I'm too smart for that.
Deleteanswer or not, it's okay u THINK SG dropped 29 on Lin as written in ur post. it's ur post.
DeleteKenoshi posted KT dropped 26 on Harden. Go ask Kenoshi why he made that remark and I'll answer mine afterwards. Happy?
DeleteLOL. ur level is u can question others but not to be questioned. glad i am not at ur level. when u post, u must feel right about it, like i said, it's okay u THINK SG dropped 29 on Lin. it is ur post.
DeleteAnd whose fault is it that Harden's lackadaisical defense has become increasingly detrimental to the Rox' playoff push? Who let things get to this stage without apparently even making a token attempt to check the slide in Harden's net contribution?
DeleteMcHale, that's who. He's like a father whose lousy parenting skills have allowed his child to become uncontrollably wayward.
How anyone can still defend this incompetent buffoon is just frighteningly incomprehensible to me.
Delfino on Bogut? LOL. Criminally incompetent.
So you think Harden is a GOOD defender, Continuum?
DeleteYou think Lin is a bad defender, Continuum? Curry needed 22 shots and all the ref help he needed to get those points.
Like most trolls, you have been dodging my questions for weeks because I EXPOSE YOU.
KHuang talk is cheap. Review the game tape and compare Harden and Lin's defensive possessions. Compare how many KT scored on Harden and how many SG scored on Lin. Keep in mind Parsons also defended KT. As a matter of fact, Parsons was on KT in the entire 1Q.
DeleteThis Continuing Sh_t is a trolling illogical fool.
DeleteIt's not possible for Curry to have scored 29 on Lin, as Curry played 10 more minutes than Lin. Also, Curry was their #1 scoring option and his teammates catered to him..... On the other hand, Harden played for 40 minutes; Klay 42 minutes. Lin doesn't try to conserve defensive energy for offense, like Harden totally does.
I will give my input and we can compare how bad Harden was beat according you.
DeleteBasketball talks. All the name calling and insults hurled at me doesn't make me budge one bit because they're coming from fanatic fans that doesn't know one bit about basketball, just talk. I'm used to it.
Deletewhoever said SG dropped 29 on Lin, give us the evident, simple as it.
DeleteYep you're right. Go ask Kenoshi and he'll tell you who said it.
DeleteSo insults don't faze you, Continuum?
DeleteGOOD. You've just declared OPEN SEASON on yourself.
Who do you think you are, coming on this board to flame people because you think you're better than everyone here?
I think you're probably some sort of anti Asian racist troll who's trying to discredit Lin and especially his Asian fans.
You've got all the troll behaviors:
1) dodge questions
2) hates Lin
3) really hates Lin's fans and this forum.
Troll, you've come here looking for a fight. You are asking for trouble, and now you've GOT IT.
KHuang did you review the tape yet. Please enlighten me how Harden gave up 40ish in this game.
DeleteWasn't going to chime in but the stupid is annoying. Continuum never said SC dropped 29 on Lin. He made up a false conditional parenthetical statement to ridicule another false made up statement.
Deleteexample:
Person #1: McHell is a coaching genius.
Person #2: If McHell is a coaching genius, then Patrick Bevereley must be an all-star PG.
Yes and Parsons too. How he gave up low 20ish.
DeleteNo point in answering the two anti Asian trolls in Butane Etane and Continuum here.
DeleteThere are pages after pages of people pointing out Harden's and Parson's bad defense here.
Anti Asian trolls like these two love to come here and flame the ENTIRE forum.
The biggest fights here, started usually by Etane, are normally RACE BASED.
DeleteThat's "exposed".
Call me a troll all you want. It don't hurt me one bit. OTOH, calling Etane a troll tells me you're a complete buffoon. I don't care about the pages and pages of BS others wrote. I want you to explain your BS because you flame the fire of all BS here.
DeleteKHuang instead of spending your delicate time flaming me, why don't you review the tape so we can end this discussion once and for all.
DeleteYou're wasting your time trying to flame this forum, troll.
DeleteYou dodge my questions, I'm gonna dodge yours.
Besides, neither you nor Etane give a crap about Lin. You two trolls are here strictly to flame the Asians here, which Etane has repeatedly admitted to.
Let's just openly fight instead of trying to talk basketball, as you're not fooling anyone here.
Troll is someone who profusely tries to move the discussion away from the original topic onto something completely unrelated.
DeleteWith one swift post, we are now talking about race based trolling instead of Harden's defense.
That's why I LOVE Khuang. He's highly effective in his ways of communication. He's like an Asian Don King.
And you're just a racist psychopath who HATES everyone here, Etane.
DeleteYou side with this Continuum troll because he hates this board just like you do.
You just HATE ASIANS, don't you Continuum and Etane?
See Etane, nonAsians like you who come here to hate on Lin's Asian fans get BEAT UP here.
DeleteYou've been firing racial insults for months, including with the latest "Don King" insult.
Getting punked by the Asians here must totally irritate racists like you and Continuum.
Continuing Sh_t:
DeleteYou do the research tape work, SINCE YOU'RE THE ONE INSISTING ON MICRO DETAILS. Then report it back to KHunag an us, see who is closer to truth. Hint: Trolling Lin hating retards or KHunag, the accomplished musician and basketball expert.
KHuang you're so fearful that I'm going bust your bubble that you think I'm avoiding your question. Here it is >
DeleteSo you think Harden is a GOOD defender, Continuum?
No, Harden is not a good defender but he doesn't give up 40ish. Only in your narrow mind that he gives up 40ish, so prove it to me and review the game tape.
You think Lin is a bad defender, Continuum?
No, Lin plays good defense but he's not Avery Bradley. He's not a lock down defender but he can defend on most nights.
There you go. Now, go review the game tape.
I started this raucous so hurl your insults at me. Leave Etane out of it. He said nothing wrong. You need to review the game tape that's it.
DeleteYou don't tell me what to do, troll.
DeleteYou want my opinions? Go back and read my ongoing posts.
Etane and I have a year long race war going ever since he cursed out Asians when he first came here. You're welcome to join the anti Asian diatribes given your clear indications, but you're gonna get FIRED ON the way Etane does ever time he hurls racial slurs against Asians here.
You are not interested in basketball discuussion, troll.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteContinuum March 18, 2013 at 9:58 AM
DeleteI will give my input and we can compare how bad Harden was beat according you.
@Continuum,
Have been waiting for your input the past 1 hour but still see no data from you. It'd put the back and forth enless argument to rest if you could just provide your date. Thanks.
Pretty hard to prove since it's highly subjective. How do you define good defense vs good defense? The only way to really try to analyze it in my opinion is the following :
DeleteHow many times was the player beat off the dribble resulting in scored points?
Was the defender in the correct spot?
Was the help defense in the right place?
Was there a hand in the shooter's face?
Even with all this information, it'll still be subjective but it will be interesting though.
@Continuum,
DeleteThis one is quite easy to decide.
The question is "Is Harden's defense on Klay Thompson worse than Lin's defense this season?"
From the eye tests, I and many here saw how much space Harden gave KT to make wide-open 3PTs. But I also saw Lin forgot to cover Curry at least once in last night's game but it was not as many as Harden.
On the high-level, we would need to use the PPG and 3PT% from 4 games between the Rockets and GSW. Then compare them with KT and SC's season average. If their Houston's number is higher than their season average, then we know both Harden and Lin's defense were bad because they let KT and SC consistently scored on them in 4 games. 4 games is pretty good sample size to measure consistent pattern because in 1 game a player can go off no matter how good the D is.
So how do the numbers stack up?
KT and SC PPG and 3PT% against HOU compared to their 2012-2013 Season Average
Klay Thompson
Vs. HOU
PPG 3PT%
19 (6,22,22,26) 52.4% (11-21)
Season Avg
PPG 3PT%
16.6 39.4%
So in 4 games vs HOU, KT scored 2.4pts/game higher than his season avg and shot unbelievably 52.4% 3PT which is 13% higher than his season avg. This confirmed the eye test that Harden left KT too much space for his excellent 3PT shooting.
How about Curry vs HOU?
Stephen Curry
Vs. HOU
PPG 3PT%
21.75 (7,27,24,29) 37.9%(11-29)
Season Avg
PPG 3PT%
18.7 44.4%
So in 4 games vs HOU, SC scored 3.05pts/game higher than his season avg and shot below average 37.9% 3PT which is 4.5% higher than his season avg. This confirmed the eye test that Lin (for the most time) managed to do a decent defense to keep SC below his season average of his excellent 3PT shooting.
CONCLUSION
DeleteSo there is no denying by looking at the numbers that both KT and SC scored more than their season avg in PPG. We can attribute this to Houston's higher pace which increase # of shots per game.
What about 3PT%? It's an understatement to say Harden did a poor job letting KT shot 52.4% of his 3PT, higher than his season avg. Lin definitely had some defense lapses but for the most part he managed to keep Curry's 3PT to be 4.5% lower than his season avg.
Again, we can go into more details about Lin and Beverley shared their many minutes in guarding SC as Harden did for KT. Or you can go play-by-play to check last night's game how KT's clutch 3PT and Harden bad defense managed to stifle HOU run. (HOU got as close as 5 points at 57-62 but KT's 5 points and SC's 3 points plus Harden's bad pass made it 70-57. Then Harden's 3 made it 70-60 but so what, it just stymied HOU run. They ended 3Q trailing 15 points at 60-75 )
If you claim to know about basketball, you surely will be able to tell how much space Harden left for KT to make his 3PTs and the crucial part of this to stymie Houston's run in the 3Q.
Lin is not perfect in his defense against Curry but it's logical to say Harden's bad D contributed much to this loss. Even many CF folks say the same thing about Harden's weak D that they start comparing it to Monta Ellis.
KHuang I need to rid of you on this site. You are the worst offender of delusions and illusions of all. Go to David Blaine's fan site where you belong. Though this is a Lin fan site, it doesn't exempt you from delusions and illusions. You want to educate the Lin fans, use concrete facts and not from your imagination.
DeletePsalm your anaylsis seems fair on the surface but it's still too skewed. Yes, we need play-by-play on yesterday's game. I'm at work now but I will post my findings tonight. Also, I don't care what CF folks say. Most knowledgeable basketball fans don't skew it either way.
DeleteSecond, "But I also saw Lin forgot to cover Curry at least once." Defense is not about forgetting to cover just on one possession there are other things you have to look at. You can only find one little thing on Lin, but I can find more. You can find many things on Harden, I can also find many. That's called skewed.
DeleteTroll, you hate everyone here.
DeleteDo you really expect to flame Lin's fans off a pro Lin site? HOW STUPID ARE YOU???
Compared to most of the trolls here who hate Lin and his fans, you're just a small fry Continuum. Even compared to Etane who calls Asian women "witches", you ain't nothing.
L Kim don't worry, I'm not KHuang, I will give you my analysis tonight. I'm not the one with the outlandish comment that Harden gave up 40ish. If KHuang said he gave up 40ish, isn't it his duty to prove it. Why do I need to prove his illusions. But just to educate you a bit so you don't get fooled in the future I'll do my part. Just saying.
DeletePlease do, @Continuum.
DeleteIf you have LP, please rewatch how much space Harden gave for KT to make 6 out of 9 3PT attempts. And also watch how much space Lin gave Curry for his 5 out of 11 3PT attempts. It should be quite easy to tell if they get close enough to get their hands up the shooters' face in time.
Idiot.
DeleteContinuum, this is a Lin fan site.
You're just trying to discredit people by calling them "skewed" and other derogatory terms.
You trolls are all the same. You come in here, get punked and debunked, and then you cry rivers of piss at being WHUPPED.
Anti Lin sentiment has a place here, as I've told Etane so many times whenever he's flamed Asians here.
Lin fans here, this troll is seeking to use your information against you.
DeleteHe's calling psalm "skewed", as if psalm doesn't have good judgment.
This troll is here to destroy this forum with his hatred. Anything you post at him will be twisted around back at you in the form of a flame.
Like I said, it's usually ANTI ASIAN RACISTS that do this. Look at Etane trying to twist people's words to see an admitted racist firing hatefully at Lin's fans.
I brought up CF because even most casual observers have noticed how lax Harden D is. I'm surprised you haven't noticed how much space Harden gave to his man to shoot 3PTs or how often he lost his man. You sound like you're quite an astute observer.
DeleteDon't get me wrong, it also frustrated me when Lin did a lot of this leaving too much space for his man to help on D especially in the beginning of the season. Lin got better but Harden hasn't. At least Lin tried to do too much on help D but Harden for the most time just lost his man.
Psalem234!!!
DeleteYou're being BAITED by this troll.
He's not interested in your posts except to flame you.
This troll has only one goal here: discredit this forum by twisting your words against you.
Watch yourself and be careful.
99% of the analysis here are skewed. It is a Lin fan site after all. That's not difficult to understand. Yes, even Psalm's opinions are skewed, but he does a lot better job than you.
DeleteKHuang when are you going to watch the tape and debunk me that Harden didn't give up 40ish and Parson didn't give up in the low 20ish.
@Continuing Shit,
DeleteYOU TROLL is the one we should get rid of! NOT KHuang; he's been on this site before the Linsanity. And he is a walking basketball encyclopedia. Your wish would never happen. If youn keep pushing it, you're stretching your stupid luck.
Organize your own fan site for your favorite player, whether it's Carmelo or Harden. Or for your own favorite coach, whether Rudeson the stiff as wood or McHell-Damnpson mental twins.
Psalm I never made mentions of Harden's defense at all. I never said he doesn't have a problem on defense either. I don't know where you're getting that I'm giving Harden a free pass. Please wait for my play-by-play tonight and I'll let you know if Harden got beat by 40ish and Parsons got beat by low 20ish.
DeleteKHuang, let's give @continuum the benefit of the doubt of not seeing Harden bad D without calling him troll or any racist remarks. Let's just focus on basketball.
DeleteIf he still can't see it, I might still be kind enough to provide screenshots of how many feet Harden got beat in leaving KT open :D
But if not, it's his loss not being able to see the plays. No big deal. People can agree to disagree. I can accept that.
I mean, there is a reason why Harden skipped the post-game interview yesterday. He knew he didn't play as well as he wanted to. Parsons also didn't but he still did the post-game interview. Lin was the only starters with >50% FG (9-16) but he couldn't do it alone.
@Continuum
DeleteAppreciate your effort to compile the data. No worries, I think nobody on this fan site is fooled by anybody without substantive data and solid argument.
Psalm:
DeleteIf I am reading the post correctly, the question isn't:
"Is Harden's defense on Klay Thompson worse than Lin's defense this season?"
Rather it's:
"My unstatistical guess: Harden gives up 40ish, Parsons low 20ish."
Discussion got distorted into this strawman fallacy, but this wasn't the original topic at hand:
"So you think Harden is a GOOD defender, Continuum?
You think Lin is a bad defender, Continuum? Curry needed 22 shots and all the ref help he needed to get those points."
Hopefully the rest of the forum can help stay on topic too.
Continuum has been flaming me and this forum for at least a month.
DeleteThe "benefit of a doubt" has long been crapped out by him and Etane.
When trolls like these come here to repeatedly flame people on this forum, there can be no olive branches extended unless you want them to set fire to the peace process.
Continuum is NOT interested in talking basketball here. He's here strictly to flame the "99% of skewed analysis", of which he's already flamed you for. Whaddya expect from a guy who hates everyone on this forum?
It's far more honorable to leave basketball OUT when trolls like Continuum and Etane are deliberately using basketball as a weapon to flame people here.
Oh and minimize on the name calling too. I am looking forwards to seeing some quantitative analysis on just what Harden and Parsons net benefit to Houston is and whether this justifies their high amount of playing time.
DeleteStop MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF, you racist psychopath Etane.
DeleteYou order me to stop calling you names? You who call me "Buckwheat Hitler Don King"?
You're not just a troll who hates Asians and calls them "druggies", you're also so twisted that you hypocritically tie yourself up in your own hate knots.
What is disgusting is that basketball is the vehicle by which you flame people here. At least when I'm flaming you, I leave basketball out of the equation.
Etane,
DeleteYup, I see how Cara's original statement of "Harden probably needs to score 40 a game and Parsons about 30 to compensate for their lack of D." would be hard to prove and is a bit of sarcastic hyperbole to emphasize how they need to outscore the opponents to compensate for the weak D.
@Continuum, perhaps your objection was not communicated clear enough. If you agree that Harden had bad D, what were you arguing? That KT's 26 points were not solely on Harden D but also Parsons D? But the blame is to be shared with Parsons and Lin who might guard KT last night, wouldn't it be a valid point to ask why Parsons and Lin got asked to defend KT? It would validate Harden's bad D.
I tried to follow your objections but sorry if it was not clear to me which you were objecting. It seems that you contend Harden D was not responsible for KT's 26pt explosion because Lin also let Curry scored 29pts?
KHuang, if I can make a request, perhaps we can avoid any personal remark with troll or racist because it detracts from the discussion.
Delete@continuum can have a different opinion without being a troll. Let's give him some time to compile his numbers and present his argument clearly. At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree without being trolls on one another :D
I'm fine with disagreeing with people on issues :D
It's not necessarily personal attack.
I'd love to, psalm234, but personal attacks have been REPEATEDLY FIRED by Etane and Continuum.
DeleteThese two trolls have been constantly trying to hate people here. Many calls for peace have been utterly rejected by these two trolls.
They'll keep on doing personal attacks and I'll keep on retaliating. It's how life works.
As for my observations of Harden go, keep in mind that when the opposition targets him and breaks down the ENTIRE Rockets defense, I blame Harden.
DeleteWhen Lin plays, he always contests the shot BEFORE it even goes up. That prevents the cascade of defensive breakdowns that I wrote too much about several posts ago.
Just because Harden's man doesn't score on a give possession doesn't mean Harden isn't giving up points. Every time Harden gets pirouetted, gets beaten off the dribble, gets posted up, or leaves a guy wide open, those are defensive breakdowns which would not happen if he were playing basic minimal defense. Those breakdowns ripple through the team and others get the blame, but the breakdown USUALLY starts with Harden.
Parsons is not as bad because he at least tries to defend, though he still cannot stop anyone.
Sigh y'all just let this rest plz.
DeleteContinuum comes on here once in a blue moon just to piss people off. Why does everyone still try to defend him?
KHuang throws a blanket "racist troll" remark on people, but anyone who has been here long enough knows KHuang did a great job debuking stat for stat of waves of Melo fans pretending to be Lin fans who comes here to flame. And you know what, he's 90% right.
Continuum turns a Parsons suck at defense, Harden sucks at defense, to a "SC drops 29 on Lin" or "Lin sucks on defense too" thread and y'all fall for it. Seriously guys just let it go.
He hasn't ever contributed anything positive here. All he wants to do is argue. Now he is arguing "I never said this and that so prove me wrong".
As in, he's trolling for comments, let it be.
I mean, arguing about generalizations of "Harden sucks on d" just because I said KT dropped 26 on Harden or KHuang said "oh he gives up 40pts a night". Lol KT can drop 1pt less and he'd still say he's right. Who freaking cares, end result is Harden is still a prima-donna and is asstastic on D, this has been proven to death many times over by advanced stats, its why sub 500 teams have fun with us, esp when his shooting is off. EVERYONE knows that. Arguing that point is like trying to tell me the sun is black. Whatever, waste of time.
As usual, I defer to you Kenoshi.
DeleteCoach Nick even said this in his statistical analysis:
DeleteHarden is only good against teams with garbage defense.
He is not that good. And he doesn't D up. I'd rather have KMart than Harden if I was Morey.
@psalm234, what is the standard deviation for these numbers you did? I'd say probably, Lin's better defensive numbers might be within 2.56 sigma, so maybe he's statistically even on Curry. For Harden, it's hard to believe it's not a statistically significant number you have, in that he's likely to have done poorer on KT than KT does with others.
Delete@KHUang ... yes, Continuum started at you today with an aggressive post, but the last few posts he's promised to back his thoughts up with data, so let him do the analysis.
What I don't like about this forum, and online relationships, is that there is a flip, aggressive style and assumptions on each other. What is valuable is to read, listen, and build on the discussion. I'd like to see what Continuum comes up with, just because I don't have time to do my own. I'm ok with subjective statements, even said emphatically because I like people to stake out ground. But in the end, it's not truthful unless the ideas are tests, so let's have a conversation. And, let's let the conversation get off the attacks and move onto adding value to readers. I think they are off the attacks by now, in this post.
@psalm: I don't think Continuum ever compared Lin's D to Harden's.
DeleteIt was an attack on Continuum that made it sound like Continuum was comparing Lin to Harden. But, if you re-read the post, Continuum never made such a comparison.
I think Continuum's only assertion is kHuang's statement that Harden's D gave up 40 pts is blown out of proportions.
And, I think it's a rather clear disagreement which as this point is he said she said since we don't have additional analysis to back one way or the other.
My main interest in this, and I think is the same as continuum's is how much points is Harden and Parson really giving up?
@Kenoshi: What I wrote to Psalm applies to you as well. Please carefully discern between what Continuum wrote and in what context versus what people claims what he's saying here.
Currently, communication here is devolving into one big mess.
Dismissing everyone by saying '99% of the analysis here are skewed' really doesn't give me much confidence in him, for some reason I just don't care for people with such a holier than thou attitude.
DeleteYes we're Lin fans, but we are also some of the most critical people of Lin's performance. Let's not even talk about the flamewars we had just over Lin.
But apparently we just watch the games with blinders on. Yes Rockets are going to the championships yay because Lin is soooooooooo awesomesauce ruh rah!!!
Whatever.
Contrary to popular belief I do follow more than one team, so does probably a lot of people here.
DeleteEtane,
DeleteContinuum clearly made comparison between Lin and Harden D:
Continuum March 18, 2013 at 9:20 AM
"If KT dropped 26 on Harden yesterday, SC dropped 29 on Lin as well. And don't come up with lame excuses like Lin got picked hard when he didn't fight over screens, or Lin was funneling his man when he actually got beat off the dribble by Curry"
The statement clearly implied that Lin was as responsible as Harden in not covering their man so we can't say that Harden's D is worse than Lin's D. Perhaps @Continuum can clearly say whether he believes Harden's D is not worse than Lin or we shouldn't defend Lin's weakness in D.
ContinuumMarch 18, 2013 at 11:14 AM
Psalm your anaylsis seems fair on the surface but it's still too skewed.
...
You can only find one little thing on Lin, but I can find more. You can find many things on Harden, I can also find many. That's called skewed.
This assertion that statistic results should not be "skewed" is troubling me. I understand you don't like the number of 3PT% against Harden and Lin favors Lin, but just because it's skewed, it doesn't mean it's not true or at least show consistent pattern to support the hypothesis that Harden's D on KT 3PT is bad.
@Continuum, because the sample size is 4 (not at least 30) I won't say with 99.9% confidence interval that Harden's 3PT D against KT is bad. But consider the simple method that I use to compare against their season avg.
Can we at least agree that there is a pattern here because of the skew? In fact, the next good comparison would be to check if all opposing SG or PG by Lin and Harden consistently has higher 3PT% than their season average. Or look into detailed play-by-play of Harden's D resulting in KT's made 3PTs in 3Q.
We'll be waiting patiently for your analysis tonight and perhaps to clarify your understanding that "skewed" results is not acceptable to show some patterns.
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DeletePsalm: That's the part I hope people can read in context.
DeleteContinuum wasn't comparing Lin's D to Harden's D.
What Continuum was comparing is the STATEMENT that Harden giving up 26pts to KT is just as ridiculous as the STATEMENT that Jeremy giving up 26pts to SC (the underlying premise here is we all know the latter statement is NOT true).
So, the statistics that we're looking for is not Harden vs Lin's defense.
RATHER
Whether the contribution of Harden's activity on court is net positive or net negative and by what magnitude.
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ReplyDelete@JasonCFriedman
ReplyDeleteAfter icy start to season from 3, J-Lin halfway through what would be 2nd straight month w/ 3-pt% > 40%.
42.4% in Feb.
41.9% in March so far
Lin is definitely stepping his game up! Lately, I love looking at his stat sheet. His numbers have been greatly increasing (w/ exception to the month of February during the Houston 7loss streak). Being half way through March-- this is what I believe his #'s should have been at the beginning of the season! 16pts/6-7asts/2stls... Hopefully he can maintain this boost of condifence to get to 14/6/2 by the end of the season to be on par with his short stint with the Knicks. Either way, I hope Lin keeps attacking and utilize his mid-range jumper.
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DeleteMcHell, Damnpson and Sorry made up the authoritative force that tried to break Jeremy Lin's confidence and spirit, with their attitudes, words and actions. However, this young Lin is tough, armed with intelligence, maturity, great family support, and seemingly on the good side with God because of his character. Lin is regaining more and more of his confidence that he's had since high school days, in spited of the Rockets' "basketball minds" who rolled their eyes at Lin's acquisition.
Delete..................
Earlier, I didn't finish typing when it somehow got posted.
Yeah his improved play is translating into more confidence and better leadership. He couldn't really lead before without playing well. I am really enjoying this transformation... I'm sure his fellow teammates saw how he was being marginalized earlier in the season, or also believed that he was a fluke like most if the houstonians. He surely wasn't given the leadership role by the coaching staff.
ReplyDeleteReally, like everything else in his basketvl career, he is earning his respect.. This is what makes him so easy for people to root for.
I don't think Mchale was intentionally marginalizing Lin early in season.
DeleteHe's just a stubborn ox who was trying to make Lin conform to their offensive philosophy of corner threes, layups, and free throws. Corner three in particular, which is supposed to be easiest shot because it is shortest distance, seems like it is just an uncomfortable shot for Lin (sight lines?).
We all forget that Jeremy, at the beginning of training camp, had a tender knee which was swelling up. He couldn't push off aggressively off it then. And as the knee recovered, his jump shot was probably changing all the time because he was starting to regain the strength and explosiveness he had last year.
Way Jeremy looked in third quarter comeback did remind me a bit of Linsanity with the Knicks, but with the Rockets, James is the better three point shooter, better finisher around the rim, and better free throw shooter, so if push comes to shove, ball will ultimately be in Harden's hands.
That being said,I still just hate it when he tries to charge in one on three, into a set defense that is locked in and waiting for him, to still charge in and either cough up the ball (no foul call) or get called for a charge.
Coach McHale himself has said that Harden is most effective when he just catches and goes, and if Jeremy's dribble drive penetration and / or team ball movement breaks down set defense into a quasi-transition situation, that is where James becomes lethal.
As others have pointed out, for the Lin fans only (don't care if Rockets win or lose, just that Lin handles the ball alot and scores alot), we are starting to see glimpses of Linsanity 1.0 with the Knicks. It is just not as sustained and obvious as when D'Antoni was going to ride him like Secretariat, but it is there, and Parsons and Delfino are a bit streaky from three; Novak would probably be knocking those threes down at very high rate with Lin's dribble drive penetration pulling Novak's defender off him and how Lin always just seemed to be able to toss / deliver the pass in total rhythm for Novak (IIRC, Novak talked about how Lin always hit him right between the numbers, and he could just catch and go up to shoot in great rhythm. Novak's shooting with Knicks now is hurting badly with Lin feeding him with those oh so instinctly well timed passes). DMo it almost seems like Lin should throw the ball at his neck, rather than chest, and a little bit in front of him too. If Lin can get DMo in some sort of rhythm like he did with Novak last year, then court will openly alot for Jeremy and James.
Yeah, it is ludicrous to think that McHale was intentionally and personally marginalizing Lin. But it is quite true that he didn't think much of Lin's game whether it was due to Lin's limited play because of recovery from injury or never believed in Linsanity hype.
DeleteBut I think Lin is starting to turn people around. He is doing exactly what I had hoped for.. Play so effectively that McHale would think twice about taking him out of the game again.
I'm seeing Lin not hesitating as much in taking shots. He is definitely more assertive and not bowing down as much to harden - not just giving him the ball because he wants it. He is also attempting passes that McHale frowns upon.. the Td passes, the flashy bounce passes, etc. amazingly, he is finding ways to play his "brand of basketball" in this pg oppressing system that McHale employs.
One thing Lin really wants to work on is his conditioning.. He still hasn't proven himself to play well in second of b2b games.
And because he expands so much energy on defense, it is sometimes hard for him to play in this high paced offense ( like last night when his shots began to fall short late in the third quarter or missing free throws).
If McHale wasn't "intentionally" marginalizing Lin, he must've been "accidentally" doing so.
DeleteBecause marginalized Lin unquestionably was.
So which is it - malice or incompetence?
What's borderline criminal about the whole Lin treatment is that McHale saw how Jeremy played during Linsanity, then proceeded to create a system that is the very opposite of the one he thrived in. If he had wanted a Mario Chalmers/Derek Fisher type of PG, why sign Lin and minimize his utility?
Like I said, borderline criminal. My loathing for the whole franchise knows no bounds.
Incompetence. And eating crow. He is HOFer afterall, and well I'm willing to bet a bit of pride goes along with it.
DeleteBoth makes for pretty stupid judgement calls.
Sorry, just jaded. I've fell for McHale's supposed "turning a new leaf" too many times.
@JLinfan#1, may i have a suggestion? is it possible for you to add another menu option like 'basketball analysis' or something similar? There are so many great posts about basketball here, but kind of difficult to locate them once the game threads are done in a day or two. If possible of course. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteof course you can suggest them to the owner of this forum.
DeleteAs a troll, you have a gall to ask the admin for the mentioned feature.
DeleteThe admin has a real job and this is a wonderful site for Lin fans to come together and trolls like you, Continuing Shit, black Bamboo Forest to peruse and allow to flame.
Until the admin has the time and $$$ for a more sophisticate software, be patient. The ads on this site haven't started too long ago.
why am i a troll? because I asked someone to provide info on 'SC dropped 29 on Lin'? i don't understand.
Deleteyou're no troll, snowywbl.
DeleteNow that Continuum guy that hates everyone here? THAT is a troll.
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DeleteRemember Reality Now from a few years ago (when Lin was with Warriors)?
Deletesnowywbl,
DeleteMy sincere apologies.
I thought you agreed with one of Continuing Shit's anti-Lin post.
@Lydia, all is well. as for my suggestion, if possible, not a big deal.
Delete@ztrta, no problem. as is well.
Delete**all is well.
DeleteIn defense of the site's owner, I've created a few websites before. Blogs like this are usually free but as everyone sees, it is limited.
DeleteWhen you start looking at true discussion forums, those are a lot more difficult to create and can cost money. I'm not sure if the owner of this site is making any money off of advertising or anything but a lack of funds might be the reason this site is kept in this blog form.
@KHuang, thanks.
DeleteCNM Jeremy Lin YouTube Channel commentary:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkESAEPgWnA&feature=share&list=UUrrm1J44dQuTrlH0ZvhzTnQ
(he branded it a Linsanity 2.0 game for Jeremy himself, and also does a quarter by quarter breakdown of Lin's playmaking a bit into commentary).
It is also obvious, yet again, that true leaders of this team are James and Jeremy.
DeleteBoth showed up from the start of this game; rest of Rockets looked like Colin Kaperick and San Francisco 49'ers at start of this year's Super Bowl (flustered rookies who were just over-amped with adrenaline, like Bob F C Chan mentioned further up the thread):
"This team is very young and will need time to learn how to handle pressure. Tonight was the first real pressure game for them because it meant so much. Anyone that has played competitive sport knows how hard it is to shake out the nerves in the big games. You just can't imagine how hard it is to overcome that moment. The nerves are firing so fast that sometimes my teeth chatters. You never get over it, you just learn to handle it better the more you are exposed to it.
The best way I can explain it is comparing it to walking across a 20 ft wooden plank. We all can walk across it easily if it is laid on the ground, but put it across the top of 2 skyscrapers and it will make all of us freeze with doubt. The thing we do everyday with absolute confidence becomes a very nervy thing. Lin has the unique ability to handle those nerves better than most. Lebron is the best example of how nerves affected his play in the playoffs for Cleveland.
If we were asked at the beginning of the season about what we hoped for in Lin and the Rox, I'd would have hoped to be in the top 10 challenging for a playoff spot. Lin's recent performances have been making everyone take notice that he is for real and will be around for a long time. Let's hope the Rox make the playoffs so that they can get a chance to feel those nerves and gain some valuable experience for the future."
Linsanity broke out against Brooklyn Nets one night before Giants Super Bowl victory against Patriots, and always wondered if Tom Coughlin used Lin's breakout performance the night before Super Bowl to help propel his team to victory over Patriots:
Linsanity 1.0 started one night before Giants Super Bowl victory over Patriots
Keep Calm, This too shall pass.
ReplyDeleteI finished watching the game last night on league pass and this is my assessment:
ReplyDeleteWhat caused last nights game to get out of hand? I think we can all agree that the Rockets as a team had a bad shooting night, except for Lin & Harden.
How did Rockets give up 108 points? Obviously, it's the lackadaisical team defense that has been plaguing the Rockets all season long.
Yes, we can blame individuals for their lack of defense, but at the end of the day, Basketball is a team sport and same concept applies to defense. Rocket's were slow in their defensive rotation last night and played really bad PnR defense. The substitution by McHale to put Delfino in at the PF position again, really hurts the Rockets when opposing teams front court are going with a BIG front court line-up. The Rockets usually get out-rebounded on both ends of the court in this scenario.
GSW also went with a small line-up from PG, SG, to SF position. Basically they were playing 2 point guards (SCurry & JJack) & 1 SG (KThompson). Houston had to adjust & counter. and McHale inserted Aaron Brooks as the SF along with Jlin & Harden. Unfortunately, it did not work, because the main reason it wasn't working was that the front court of the Rockets were being outplayed by the front of GSW. Which means the Rockets guards had to sag off a little bit from their man to protect the paint and help on getting defensive rebounds.
In addition, GSW was using multiple picks to get Curry & Klay open 3 point looks. Curry & Klay went through screens in the key set by their big men which created a little space from their defender & then got another screen on the perimeter which resulted in uncontested 3 point shots. This is where Team Defensive Rotation comes into play.
However, I don't entirely blame the Rocket players for a having bad team defense rotation. I blame the coaching staff for not adjusting to the offensive scheme of GSW. The Rockets could have gone with a little bit of a 3-2 Zone to try to nullify the screens and keep the perimeter guarded and make GSW try to beat them inside. But I don't think the Rockets has done any zone defense this season.
What the Rockets defense also lacks is communication. If you look at teams with excellent defense, there's a lot of communication going on. But I don't see that in any of the Rockets players.
Now on the Rockets offense. Like the saying goes "Live by the 3, DIE by the 3" This is what happened to the Rockets last night. Their usual 3 point specialist Chandler Parsons among other players had an off night and his 2nd unit replacement Delfino had an off night as well (although he caught a little bit of fire in the 2nd half, but it was only in spurts).
When your 3 point shots aren't falling, the coaching staff needs to have a back up plan. They need to try to do something different like run more PnR (just like they did against the Suns in their last game) to help the medium and close range game going.
I noticed, like many of you mentioned that Dmo was being utilized as a spot up 3pointer. Yes that's nice strategy to have your PF shoot wide-open 3 pointers, but when his shots aren't falling you have to let him operate in the post (which they did a little bit of in the 3rd quarter). But time and time again they go back to their bread and butter the 3 point shot offensive system.
If the Rockets make the playoffs, they're not going to win if they don't develop and adjust their offensive scheme in a way that exploits and counters what their opponents are throwing at them. The same goes with their defense. They need to practice running zone defenses to counter offensive schemes that are heavily geared towards dribble penetrations or outside shooting (just like the Dallas Mavericks did against Miami Heat 2 years ago where they won the Championship).
DeleteAt this point in time, the Rockets offensive and defensive system is too obvious. All their opponents have scene the same thing over and over again, and when playoff time comes it will be exploited just like last nights game. This free for all offensive system will not work in the playoffs.
One more thing I wanted to add. If the Rockets are going to go ISO Harden ball more than Jeremy Lin PnR game, then Harden has to make quicker decisions on what he needs to do. Because last night he got double & triple teamed when he tried to dribble, drive, & penetrate. KThompson was able to play him close because if KThompson got beat, he had 2 teammates backing him up. So this strategy basically contained JHarden because all his 3 pointers were contested shots and his dribble drive penetrations for layup were contested by 2 to 3 defenders. So what JHarden needed to do to counter this was penetrate and dish out right away or dish it in to the big man. What the coaching staff also needed to do to adjust was let Harden run through multiple screens, while Jeremy Lin operates with the ball on the top of the key, then when Harden has gone through 2-3 screen to get open, Jlin can pass him the ball for an open 3 pointer.
Basically Rockets needed to run their offensive scheme just like how GSW was running their offensive set.
They won't make past 1st round Etymology, because it takes them months to make adjustments. Forget about in game adjustments, they don't exist in this so called "free flow" system.
DeleteWell actually, I should say forget about adjustments that make sense. Playing DMo as a spot up shooter was just stupid, pairing DMo against Bogut? Coaching is massive fail.
You also have to hold individual players accountable. Harden's D was terrible, so was Parsons. Delfino/Parsons were terrible on offense as well. They are so dead set on getting theirs that they froze Lin out in 4Q.
The coach did absolutely nothing and let it play out. Sigh yes a good development coach, TERRIBLE game coach.
I just hope they get a good defensive coach next year, cause they won't be getting of McFail anytime soon.
I don't get the point of all these posts about how the Rox' coaches should do this, that or the other.
DeleteNewsflash: Houston doesn't really have a system, much less a "backup plan". For example, screens and sets are run for Lin once in a blue moon, and despite their undoubted success as a winning formula, promptly abandoned in the next game. Everything is so haphazard with this team. What gives?
At this late stage of the regular season, McHale is still tinkering with his optimal lineups. He's really, as they say, throwing shit on the wall and hoping some of it sticks.
Face it, he wasn't nicknamed Coach Etch-A-Sketch by former players of his for nothing.
This last game merely serves to resurrect memories of Houston's collapse in the final six games of the 2012 season.
Just a few tidbits from Warriors coverage after Chicago loss and before Rockets win:
Delete"David Lee is a horrible defender, and putting Andrew Bogut next to him appears to have made the team defense worse, not better. I have zero faith that a team with David Lee at power forward will win a seven-game series against an opponent with a low-post scoring threat. There are just too many easy baskets to be had — as Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah repeatedly demonstrated. The theory was adding Bogut would help cover Lee’s deficiencies. But since Bogut’s mobility has been limited, it appears just to have made them worse. While a quicker center like Ezeli, Biedrins or even the undersized Landry can scramble to cover for Lee’s awful switching and (lack of) positioning, Bogut stays home and plays true defense against his man (to the extent he can, given his difficulty moving laterally). The team desperately needs Lee’s offensive skills, so whoever plays center will always be taking evasive actions to cover for Lee’s defensive mistakes. Against the Bulls, with Bogut looking slower than just a few days ago, there was nothing done to stop a lay-up line in the paint."
Bogut Lee Defense
"Jackson has shown all season he is comfortable with the ball in Jack’s hands. He also said he likes the versatility of being able to use Curry and Thompson as threats off the ball. Without Jack, opponents double team Curry — which not only takes him out of the action but also leaves the likes of Thompson or Barnes (suspect ball-handlers) to create offense, which is not their strengths."
Jarrett Jack feeding Curry and Thompson as shooters
As much as I like Jeremy Lin, I have absolutely no blinders on as to why he's doing better lately.
DeleteI attribute Lin's improved numbers not to Lin changing, but to opponents finally defending James Harden with serious effort.
While Lin still sees his share of traps, it's not the overwhelming crush that happened before the trade. Having DMo do mo has made it harder for teams to trap Lin.
Meanwhile, opponents want Harden to fire up contested shots against 2 or 3 defenders. That creates gaps on the court for other players, primarily Lin and Parsons and Delfino.
Lin is same ol' Lin, but with more space to operate.
I meant paring Delfino against Bogut btw :)
Delete@ Khuang
DeleteExactly, you could have not said it better. With that said, the coaching staff needs to give Jlin more freedom and feed him the ball if Harden is the main focal point of opposing team defenses.
When I say more freedom, it meas telling Jlin to go ahead and take 30 shooting attempts or run PnR all day. By doing that they will take away the opponents game defensive game plan to contain Harden and will have to evenly distribute their defensive assignments between Harden & Lin.
If the coaches are telling Jlin to go ahead and take over, then it is up to Jlin to become even MORE aggressive than he's already been playing and take over the game.
Harden also has to give up it up more to Jlin when Jlin is on a role and let Jlin take over.
@Kenoshi
DeleteYes I see your point Kenoshi. I think they did a good job at inserting Aaron Brooks to counter the 3 guards setup by GSW. However, like you said it wasn't a good idea to put Delfino to guard the big men of GSW. What the coaching staff could have done was put Delfino at the SF position and rotated the defensive match up to where Lin would guard the faster JJack, Harden guards SCurry, and Delfino guard the slower of the 3 guards KThompson. Then they should have kept Dmo & Asik in all day to plug up the paint on the defensive end to grab the rebounds.
Then on the offensive end they should have gone with more PnR with Dmo/Asik and have Harden go through screens so Jlin can pass him the ball for open looks.
But like you said forget about making adjustments with this coaching staff because they're really slow at making them. But they have to try and get better at it if they want to make some noise in the playoffs.
They have to trust Lin more when Harden is the focal point of opposing team defense strategy.
Here is an article written about the shackling of Lin by the Houston coaching staff and how it may affect the Rockets playoff hopes: Jeremy Lin Shackeling Hurts the Rockets
ReplyDeleteThis is a great article. Someone should send this to Morey and Les. Obviously nothing will change Mchale's mind.
DeleteRight on the mark.
DeleteFinally someone in the media willing to go to bat with an unbiased take on the situation.
"They paid him $25 million, but they sometimes act like Lin is Tim Tebow on the New York Jets: A novelty act they don't know what to do with — and a talent they've never fully embraced. It's no secret that Rockets owner Leslie Alexander pushed general manager Daryl Morey to reacquire Lin after the cut blunder."
DeleteThe novelty acts in Houston are Morey's strategizing via statistical analysis and McHell's etch-a-sketch coaching.
Yes, just read the article and it is great to see finally someone dare to speak out what we Lin fans have felt in the past several months. However, I wonder anything will change though. I just hope they can just trade Lin away and not to ruin his career any more.
DeleteGreat article, it's what all of us has been saying in this forum all season long.
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ReplyDelete