Might as well repost this to provide some perspective on the coaching staff. [Not taking away fr what an AWESOME player Harden is, BUT. <- The coaching staff should be tweaking things to maximize their talents in order to serve the team better.
^ HOU has been a +1.3 w/ Harden on the floor & +5.4 w/ him off. [Only 554 min. w/ him off & 1,909 w/ him on.] This is data the coaching staff cannot not have. They should be tweaking things better, but since they are eking out Ws, they go with [not the best strategy, w/c they are not motivated to seek out] good enough. They are extremely attached to their pre-conceived notions [for whatever reasons] and it's not maximizing their talents. I can see the coaching staff applying this type of attitude to other players, i.e. JLin. There is simply no motivation to revise their pre-conceived notions on him. The situation hasn't deteriorated to the point where they will be forced to. [As for the harm this type of behavior might entail, it's too remote and unrelatable to those concerned, it's hard to take them into consideration. After all, as long as it's a W, it's all good.]
~This has nothing to do with Harden. He is the player that he is. The coaching staff have the relevant data and should be making wise decisions.
It is worrying isn't it. They may eke out wins against or even blow out mediocre to good teams, but they will have trouble winning against top teams with the coach's current tendencies. Top coaches will not find it hard to defend a strategy highly reliant on Harden.
Its going to take quite a few embarrassing losses by top notch teams for McHale/Sampson to get it wilc :/
Watching the Heat game its almost like they contained Rox effortlessly. Which baffles me today why Blazers didn't think to contain Harden...Well other than the fact that Harden was shooting lights out lol :P
But nevertheless I thought Lin improved a lot over past matches vs Heat, he is doing well :)
I especially enjoy seeing JLin beating his man off the dribble going both right and left. Accordingly, most of the he can't go left comments have died down. And JLin's finishes with that finger roll coming down the middle of the lane...that is a signature move right alongside his no-look passes.
As for Harden, he was hot. I thought Blazers could have tried forcing the ball out of Harden's hands with double teams. They didn't try it probably because the Rox were passing the ball around well plus they were hitting their open shots. Harden must cool down and you'd rather let him play iso and take the rest of the team out of rhythm...well not for this game! Harden was amazing...13/16 shooting and got teammates involved as his assists numbers showed. I would still rather have JLin take those assists, not because of stats, but because JLin sets a pace to the game which even Harden cannot do.
He should be pissed, because of his dumbass coaches' disrespectful substitution patterns, he got to play only 3 minutes in the fourth. I've never seen the starting point guard pulled along with the rest of the starters because of a huge lead, and the sub coming in for garbage time actually having played most of the non-garbage time minutes in the fourth. Shit, basically dumbass McHell, by bringing in Lin with just 6 minutes in the fourth in a blow-out game, was basically bringing him in for garbage time.
The reason why the coaches hate Lin is because the owner and GM would not resign the player they loved Goran Dragic. So the coached use any lame ass excuse for not playing him. They changed the offense, not play him starter minutes anything but not to see lin shine.
ChuckT - the coaches don't hate Lin and they really don't want him to fail. They just don't think he's that good of a player. It's the honest truth. Lin is easily replaceable, he's just not one of their core players. This team also doesn't really utilize the PG position like other teams either. IMO, a PG like Chalmers or George Hill (guys who don't have great court vision, don't need the ball a lot but can score) would do really well next to Harden.
The big issue here is, that Lin and Harden's strengths overlap. And since Harden is the elite player out of the two, they're going to go with him.
Now that Lin is hitting his shot, Harden/coaching staff can focus on him becoming the premiere combo guard they've always envisioned. You shouldn't expect Lin to average more than 6-7 asst/season while with the Rockets bc the guy that's going to score and orchestrate the offense is going to be Harden. We've been seeing it more and more each game as Lin's J has improved.
I don't think they see Lin as the combo guard they envisioned. I think they see him as trade bait for a power forward. This game, I think, really showed to me that for the coaching staff, Lin is a dispensable player, not because they think he totally sucks, but, because he's redundant. In their minds, they have a better version of Lin in Harden, and, I don't think they believe Lin will really develop into a reliable spot-up shooter.
I mean, think of it this way - if the Rockets had first signed Harden, not Lin, do you think they would have also gone after Lin? No, they'd have gone after a power forward, and sign some servicable point guard like Ray Felton more for his shooting abilities than his ability to set up the offense, because a Ray Felton/OJ Mayo type guard would complement Harden better.
They are not going to trade Lin. Beverley is not a replacement for Lin, neither is TD. They are great backups, but no one on Rockets can play like Lin.
HardLin are a great combo. They can compliment each other well, I hope they continue to develop that chemistry, its integral to each other's success on this team.
What I want to see more is McHale actually include MORE people in the rotation. Their bench is deeper than they think, esp at this high pace. Harden can't be a racehorse forever, he will break down, like he has already shown. Unless they want another 7 game losing streak, they need to find a better rotation.
When they are ready, they will be the best backcourt in the entire NBA.
Mchale and Sampson waved Lin last year so basiclly they screwed up letting him go to NY. Now Lin is back with a 25 mil contract and that is why they don't care to make life easy for Lin. Subconsciously or deliberately, it doesn't matter, they already see him as a failure. However, Lin must take the positive with the bad. He's got a solid contract, a job for 2 more years in the nba and a chance to prove his worth, which he is doing by scoring. No mater how much these coaches push Harden and relegate Lin to third option, he still must get his minutes because they already paid up with 25 mil. I keep saying that he just needs to continue to shoot and not worry about passing the ball. The coaches have made him a SG now so shoot! That's his role now because there is no need for 2 PGs on the floor. If Lin keeps shooting and work hard on scoring, he'll get another opportunity down the road. Nothing else will guarantee that he'll have a job in the future except if he keeps improving his scoring. Just keep shooting lights out!
I've watched and seen a couple Morey interviews and I don't know if they would have signed Lin had they gotten Harden first. In one interview he said, "probably". I guess that's encouraging but what else is he supposed to say? I think we all know that Harden and Lin are ball dominant guards and most people have acknowledged that Lin is not an ideal complimentary player to Harden. I've seen Rockets fans suggest that a strong defensive minded PG that can shoot the three, without dominating the ball would be an ideal fit. I'm not arguing against that.
I don't think they'll trade Lin unless he completely sucks it up the rest of this year and next year but if Lin continues to play well and improve, I don't know if they'd want to keep him either. Like i've said, the Rockets system doesn't really need a traditional PG so if they can find a service pg to compliment Harden and their future star PF, why would they spend a bunch of money resigning Lin?
>> I don't think they see Lin as the combo guard they envisioned.
k.smith said Harden is - NOT Lin.... k.smith pretty much agrees with you. I do too. I hope they trade Lin; sooner the better. I bet Lin will be VERY happy. But that he'll be a little sad to leave Houston because he enjoyed playing in Houston and everybody treated him well, but that it's just a business. Hahahaha. Lin: When it happens, try not to burst with inner happiness; behave and act a teeny bit sad.
Maybe Lin should purposely NOT shoot 3-pointer much unless the game is on the line (he's been making a lot of 3s lately). Otherwise, Lin might not be traded. On the other hand, they can get a 3-point specialist for cheaper.
Houston is a crappy city for BB. And except for a city like Austin, TX people are mostly close-minded people and racists (as bad as the South in general, but probably a bit worse). They obviously don't like blk people either except (and only for the duration) when an athlete plays good for their team.
We might not be all completely happy the way it played out for Jeremy (as many here perceived), but then again , as it has always been , Jeremy will find his way through these circumstances. Somehow , I firmly believe that Jeremy Lin is a WINNER , and that no matter what people do to downplay and minimize him , He will find his way to come out on TOP!
If you follow this board enough. After awhile you will know who the trolls are. I don't respond to trolls. One of the patterns is one troll will side it or defend another troll.
If you are a Rocket's fan, then you can't be happier with the result tonight. The team played well and won a crucial game that will do much to improve its position for a playoff spot. However, this is not Clutchfan, but a site that bears Jeremy's name. And if you are a Lin fan, as most of you are, you really can't more frustrated with how things transpired.
Now, I am not saying that Jeremy is better or equally as good than Harden. Harden is clearly by far the best player on the team. He is a special talent who should be treated as such.
Unlike some of you, I am also not saying that Jeremy needs to get a chance to "shine" like Harden does. The coaching staff is not gonna make sure one player shines - that is a ludicrous concept
Lastly, there is no conspiracy about how the coaching staff is purposefully setting up Jeremy to fail. That is just a as ridiculous.
What it comes down to is simply, respect, or lack thereof from the coaching staff toward Jeremy. They simply do not see him a transformative player who can change the course of the game. He is not a "foundational piece". He is not the player who, we as his fans, see.
The reality is that they simply view him as a servicable PG - a role player in the same standing as Patterson. He is dispensable. This is why same frustrating things happen over and over to him.
For example, if there is any hint of back up playing well , whether TD or Beverly, Jeremy will sit like he did for a long time.
This is McHale's basic use of Lin - Play the first quarter until mid to end of it. Return early in second quarter and finish the half. Start Third until the mid way. Come back early in 4th quarter to finish the game.
However, anytime TD/Bev shows some spark, then the time Lin sits in the beginning of 2nd or 4th can go on for a long time. Now this usually has nothing to do with how Lin has been playing up to that point. McHale will ride TD/Bev and sit Lin as long as he can until: 1) the lead has widened 2) we are eventually n deep shit because TD/Bev has been left in too long. I think Lin sat like 12 minutes between end of third and mid of 4th.
Tonight, McHale sat Lin not to rest him as some of you may think - but because he felt that Beverly gave Rockets better chance to win than Lin. It didn't matter that Lin was playing well to that point. The same thing happened in Denver. You think this will change when the playoff comes? That's just a wishful thinking, my friends. Just watch next game, any time TD/Bev plays well, Lin will sit for a long time.
Until McHale perception of Lin as a playmaker and a player changes, he will never see all the good he brings to the game. As such, his perception of Lin will never match that of Harden.
So this is how it will be. I think as a player, Lin has turned a corner. He is playing much better. I just wish it wasn't this way. No reason I should be pissed in a game where Lin's team won.
On a side note, I will get to see things up close this Sunday when Rox come to Sacramento. I got seats one row behind the bench - so maybe I will pick up things that will either prove or disprove my point. I hope he plays well and doesn't get disrespected like he was today.
I haven't agreed with all of Mchale's substitutions. And he's done strange substituions with other players too (at least strange to me and my level of basketball understanding).
When he did put Lin back in the 4th this game, I do not consider that garbage time. It was likely the Rocket's would win but this was still a very critical point of the game.
If you look at Lin's average minutes over the course of the year, he averages 33 minutes a game which is very respectable. However, if there is any issue at all, it's what you have underscored: Mchale just doesn't have sufficient belief in Lin. But it's not some grand conspiracy theory.
Lin's shooting seems to be getting better recently. I hope he can continue this and let's see how that opens up the driving lanes for him further.
When you sit a player for 12 minutes, you don't have much faith in the player. That's it. Period. No other way to look at it. This has been a recurring theme this season when it comes to Lin.
It's one thing if Lin hadn't been playing well though. In Denver and this game, there was absolutely no reason to sit Lin for that long. 12 minutes on the bench is something you do to punish a player.
No conspiracy. Just disrespect. You just can't see all the good a player does, when your perception of that player is negative to begin with. That's the sad truth
Solidz, excellent analysis. Yes, you were able to clearly articulate what I've been trying to say in my angry diatribes, lol.
Only thing I disagree with is that Rocket fans also should be concerned about Lin's mistreatment, because, as I and people here believe, Lin is the "motor" of the team, and how well the team does is going to depend on how well Lin plays, not Harden. And, again, if ROcket fans think long term, if they consider this season and the playoffs, and not just this win, and the next couple of years, they should be concerned with how McHell's treatment of Lin is counterproductive for the team's development in the next three years.
I agree with your post. If it was not for Les Alexander Lin would have been benched along time ago. Its too band that the rockets are winning games. This means that Mcfail will never get fired.
Lin is a top 15-10 point guard now. He is way better than that overrated Rubio.
ChuckT, if the Rocket's weren't winning games and Lin was getting better stats, it would, in my opinion, look worse for Lin. If a team's winning it means the players on the court are doing something right. Wins are the highest demonstration of skills. That is why players with amazing stats but no rings are often not thought as good as those with perhaps similar stats but more rings. Winning is everything.
You guys would rather they leave him in there to play garbage time and cheapen his status? I don't even think Lin wants that. ALL of Blazer's starters left the field, they quit, its just respect to let the bench battle it out.
His substitution wasn't any different than previous games. He did well, and was scheduled to close, afterall its been a known problem that Rox run out of gas in previous meetings, it would be nice if JLin was well rested for the last 6 minutes.
They played Harden 2 minutes less than JLin during the GSW rout. I can imagine the Harden lovers: OMG WTF MCHALE LET HARDEN PLAY WHY DID JLIN GET MOAR MINUTES?!? UNFAIR, THEY JUST HAVE IT IN FOR HARDEN!
Roberlin, Rockets fans do not care about Lin as much as we do, as long as the team wins. Do you ever go to Clutchfan? I've never seen a fan base so eager to see one of their players fail. They were even mocking him being in the Skills competition.
Whether we like it or not, Lin is dispensable to the Rocket's organization. I bet the Rox will try to get CP3 if at all possible as well as D12. Asik may be playing well now but he is also dispensable. They won;t blink at acquring D12 and trading away Asik. The only player who is not dispensable is obviously harden.
The only way Lin will ever come to reaching the play level of Linsanity is if he were to have a coach who believes in him as a player. This clearly will not occur under the watch of McHale. Unfortunately as long as the Rockets win and make the playoffs, he will not get fired.
Kenoshi.. are you kidding me? Tell me the last time a starting PG was benched for 12 straight minutes in a game. Would you bench a player for 12 straight minutes if you thought he was an intregral part of the team?
We are lin fans here - and we are not happy about McHale's lack of faith in him. That's it. You can't possibly think otherwise. If you do, show some examples.
Then explain why they subbed Lin in at the 6 minute mark, like they do often and not just let Beverley play all of 4th?
Beverley wasn't going to close, anyone can see he isn't Lin and has not the impact on the game like Lin. Lin came in, scored a basket, and helped push the game over, Blazers gave up, Lin sat down with rest of starters.
Bamboo Forest, If Lin was playing more, we would've win more games. It's not about stats. It's about respect. There was absolutely nothing that Lin did in this game (or what Beverly did in this game) that warranted LIn being benched for 12 minutes. Would McHale sit Harden for 12 minutes if Delfino was making few threes? No way in hell. You simply cannot sit a player you believe in that long unless you don't think much of that player. That's the truth.
Yes, the Rockets (be it the management, coaching staff or the players and fans) don't have as much respect for Lin as they do for Harden. But so what? Objectively, what has Lin done in this league to command as much respect as someone like Harden? Don't tell me Linsanity and the 38 point game against Spurs because Harden has done way more than this.
Kenoshi, you see nothing wrong with LIn sitting 12 minutes in a row? Are you serious? You really think McHale regards Lin as more than just a role player on the team? Wake up
If Morey somehow succeeded in getting D12, this will be the downfall of his tenure. D12's contract will be another one of those toxic one just like Amare that is untradeable. Back injury is a serious thing, I think it's worse than a knee injury. In addition, he is a diva.
Last summer it was Les' idea to not give in to Orlando demands regarding D12. Les is not in love with D12, but Morey is.
Also, OKC did demand Parson as part of the trade, but Morey said no. It was well documented after the trade went through.
Lin's getting 33 minutes a game on average. Patterson, this game, only got one more minute and Patterson was playing superbly. I just don't see it like you do. While I don't agree with all of Mchale's substitutions, I think you take it too far.
That's cool though; it's good to get your view on here. Especially because I think you argue your points well. And you acknowledge that Harden is the superior player and you dismiss the conspiracy theories.
Kenoshi, subbing in the starter at the 6 minute mark is NOT NORMAL. He should be coming in much earlier, at the 9 or 10 minute mark, assuming he came out with 2 or 3 minutes left in the third.
Cara, this is a LIn fan website. Of course, we are gonna think highly of him. All we are frustrated by is lack of respect the coaching staff has toward lin as a player. If you see LIn as such, then of course, you see nothing wrong with it.
But we believe LIn to be much better than what McHale thinks of him and hence the frustration.
When Morey declares Lin to be one of the "foundational pieces", brings him over from Knicks with this "ridiculous" poison pill of a contract, and then he gets treated this way, we clearly have the right to complain about how they are marginalizing his role on offense.
Solidz75 no disrespect but get the fuck off my nuts, I've been here supporting Lin hell of a lot longer than you.
If I had a penny for every time someone said Lin got robbed I'd be rich. Had it been a close game he would have started 4th, again, like they usually do, and Beverley would have saw nothing but bench.
Its a freaking pattern, stupid one, but one we've been seeing for the latter part of the season. McHale is predictable like that. They value Lin, but make no mistake Harden is their star.
I'll repeat again: WHAT THEY DID TODAY WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THEIR PREVIOUS GAMES WHEN TEAM IS DOING WELL AND HARDEN IS THE MAIN PRODUCER.
If Lin was crazy like Harden and hit 13/16 shots you think they would keep him on the bench?
He did great. He shut Lillard down, walked away shooting 6/10 16pts though IMO he got robbed on assists. But he had an ok game.
Gawd people just can't be satisfied unless he was allowed to shoot 25+ shots. Harden played great today, JLin is probably happy for him, just leave it at that.
We all know what JLin can do, just watch him shine at the skills challenge.
Bamboo, comparing Lin's minutes to Patterson's minutes is apropro, because the coaches don't think much of Patterson, either. Why do you think the Rockets are very open of the fact that their biggest need is a power forward? Because they don't think of Patterson as good enough for this team to become a real contender.
Another thing, keep in mind they put more pressure on Lin than Harden. Problem is that spaces the floor for Harden. This backcourt is a 1-2 punch, either one at any time can become undefendable. Harden was on today, give him his dues. When Lin is on Harden has no problems taking a backseat.
Lin is probably happy about the win and for Harden, and I'm happy with him.
Solids75, you are spot fucking on. i'm not even sure why people don't get this. You're not just talking about this game, you're talking about what's happened over the course of the entire season.
bambooforest - NO ONE wants to pad Lin's stats. Obviously, wins matter but that's not what Solids75 is talking about or even disputing. It's not an either or kind of thing, it's about Lin's role and what it means to the team.
Kenoshi - I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one wants Lin to pad his stats, solids75 is talking about the usage of Lin during the entire course of the season.
Kenoshi, Before I get off your fucking nuts, I'll repeat again. Would you as a coach sit a player for 12 minutes in a role in the middle of a important game if you though highly of him? Answer my question or just STFU.
Oh I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't be arguing with a dude whoe declares himself to be the authority on Lin becuase he's supporting Lin hell of a lot longer than me. Are you serious? LOL...
I remember Lin say and I quote - "I'm not playing for anybody else. I play for God."
If in McHale's eyes , Lin is dispensable , the more so that this coach is dispensable in God's eyes.
I believe that Jeremy Lin is a "man of purpose". He just didn't come out of nowhere for nothing. As he himself believed , there are a number of events that has come to take place in his life at an oportune time that made his coming out possible. So , if the coaches (or anybody else for that matter) do not conform to that "purpose" , it's just a matter of time , heads will roll. And I'm sure , it will not be Jeremy's.
@Kenoshi - Agree that they are not doing anything different from any other game with JLin's sub pattern. I am a lot happier with this sub pattern than earlier on in the season. At least JLin would have finished fourth in this one if it were a close game. Generally though, the sub-pattern shows a willingness to leave JLin out of the game for long periods. This willingness reflects a disappointing lack of respect for JLin's contribution.
I don't like Mchale substitution pattern. But I'm satisfied with both. With the win and the way that Lin played. I guess I was more frustrated with my fantasy points today lol. However, I don't think McHale sees Lin like we see him, that's true. But I don't think they see him as just another role indispensable player. At least not totally. So IDK right now I'm kinda in the middle. I just really WISH that Mchale will fix that substitution patter. Give Harden and Parsons a break too.
But I guess is step by step. Earlier in the season Lin was just a stand up shooter. Now he is mostly controlling the offense. Getting PnR, more aggressive, taking his long 2s shots. So I take it little by little.
But! I do believe that in a playoff scenario we will see very little of Douglas or Beverly.
why do you sit your starter? how about if he's rolled his ankle twice in practice in the past few weeks. he was limping at the end of the game. got nailed in the head and took a shot to the rib cage during the game. why leave him out there?
Solidz75 you are a fucking idiot. Beverley was doing well defending and forcing TOs, he was hot.
What fking dumb ass coach would take him off the court at that time? Tell me, with your years of coaching NBA games?
As a coach, if I had lost ALL of my previous engagements against a team this season that just seems to play better in 4th while my team RANNED OUT OF GAS EVERY TIME I'd make sure my closer(s) would be FRESH, ESP MY PG. I probably would have brought him in at 8 minute mark, but 6min mark was fine, its great using Beverley to waste their starter's energy.
Beverley was doing a great job harassing Lillard. He can't defend him over a PnR, but his on ball was enough distraction to slow their offense, because up until then they were trading shots with Rockets.
You would reward that by benching him?
They quit at the 3 min mark. Sure, let's lower Lin's status to a garbage player and let him play the last 3 minutes, so he gets NO RESPECT from EVERYONE. That's because we're Lin fans!
@Gene thank you. I for one am worried about his health as well. Maybe I forgot to mention it, but he looks a bit banged up, he has been limping a lot for the past 2-3 games.
But you know what, we should play him for 40mins a day. Sigh I don't get some fans sometimes.
@Gene, we're not talking about this game or the past couple weeks, we're talking about a theme that's occured throughout the season.
I'm not really sure why people are upset with what solids75 has to say, he's not wrong. Unless you think that Lin is an average role role player, then of course you'd disagree with him. To be fair, since the 1/25 game against NO, Lin's been getting a little more time to play crucial parts of the game with Parsons/Harden.
Kenoshi, if you think that it would have been unfair to bench Beverly because he was playing well, then you need to watch more NBA basketball games.
Plus, you can't complain about Beverly getting "benched," because he's a sub, not a starter. As a sub, generally, you play a limited amount of minutes, no matter how well you are playing, because your role primarily is to play and give the starter rest before he comes back in.
Watch how McHell subs for Harden. Harden's sub, even if playing very well, will come out when Harden is scheduled to come back in.
@k.smith i may not agree with everything, but i think solids75 points are well-taken and very well-articulated. unlike many of the people here, he understands there there is no conspiracy against jlin. but the coaching perception of jlin's ceiling is probably not what we as fans think it is.
jlin has overcome misperceptions his whole career and i have no doubt in his resolve. look at this season...there is no doubt he's gotten better and better as the season has progressed. look at how confident and natural he's been in pulling up for jumpers the last several games (including this one). he's been more aggressive in taking it to the hoop, and pickier in his spots when he attacks. his turnovers have improved. there is no doubt the progression is in a positive direction. as his game improves, i think you'll see him get more and more minutes.
Kenosha; hey look at me I've been supporting Lin longer than all of u so shit da fuck up. I love beverley .. He is just a bundle of ennergy and so u know I've been supporting Lin so I'm soooo cool. Lol
@roberlin it's different because lin is not in harden's class...yet. we as fans think jlin has a ton of upside, and one day we hope he'll get there. you can question how mchale is running things, but you have to understand he's doing what he thinks will give him the best chance to win, even if you don't agree with him. i think that's what solids75 has articulated very well in his original post.
look at what mchale did to TD. TD has been playing very solid this year, highest 3 point percentage on the team, hitting clutch shots, high energy/aggressive, plays pestering defense...yet, for no reason at all, he gets benched for like three consecutive games for beverley. i don't think mchale has it in for TD or jlin or ppat or whoever...he's doing what he thinks is best for the team, even though we don't agree with him.
calling him things like mcfail, mchell, and a racist is just weak. i guarantee jlin himself would frown upon stuff like that.
why do u argue with Kenoshi. Hr has been supporting Lin so long. He is sooo cool. I love how he points that out. That is one of dumb fuck things I've ever read. Kenoshi u r just so smart. You are the best Lin supporter I've come across
*sigh, so many lames here. Who the hell says they want Lin to play 40min/game? Please, give me the names of the members who've said this.
Posted by Roberlin: Plus, you can't complain about Beverly getting "benched," because he's a sub, not a starter. As a sub, generally, you play a limited amount of minutes, no matter how well you are playing, because your role primarily is to play and give the starter rest before he comes back in.
Duh? This is pretty obvious. It's sad you even had to explain this.
Posted by Gene: but the coaching perception of jlin's ceiling is probably not what we as fans think it is.
Obviously. That's pretty much what solids75 is saying.
Robertlin, then you need to go watch OKC last season when Harden started only 2 games yet racked up 31mpg.
No you are wrong, his sub doesn't necessarily come out, McHale just subs someone else out (unfortunately, Lin at times) and Harden plays along side his sub.
posted by kenoshi: Robertlin, then you need to go watch OKC last season when Harden started only 2 games yet racked up 31mpg.
You're comparing Harden's transition in OKC from back up to starter (in those 2 games) to Beverly's situation? That makes no sense. They're not even comparable.
Maybe i'm not reading you correctly but you're comparing harden's bench minutes in OKC to someone like Beverly's? On any team not named OKC, Harden would have been starting, that's why he played so many minutes as a back up in OKC. That's not the case for Beverly though. He's not as talented as Harden, wasn't drafted 3rd and should be used as a spark guy to relieve the starter/give him a rest before he goes back in the game.
The comments you make about Lin being viewed as a serviceable PG or a poor defender is head scratching? As a coach, I know that to make any player play up to their potential, I need to make them believe in themselves first. It's been proven by psychologists that teachers with preconceived bias or expectations from certain students will pretty much guarentee those results. Lin has proven in highschool, college, NY and 3 times this year that he can and could contribute a lot more than what he is allowed to do. Yet these coaches refuse to use the most basic psycological tool in coaching and that is to help the players to believe in themselves. I read a sports psycology book that gave an example of a college baskeball player who was a 50% shooter. This player was having a terrible night, going 3/20 but when the team had a chance to win the game with a last minute shot, he wanted to take it. He made it, just as harden did on occasions this year. The paycologist asked him after the game how he could be so confident about making that shot when he was so cold roughout the game. The player replied that since he was a 50% shooter, he knew that he was due to make it, that the odds were in his favor. The paycologist asked him, what if you were shooting 20/3 would you still ask for the shot at the ned of the game? The player replied, when I'm shooting like that, I'm just hot, so I expect to make everything. Good shooters use this type of delusional self belief to reenforce their own self confidence. Good coaches therefore must also enable their players to believe in themselves. They create clear defined roles that fit that players strengths and limit their Oppertunities to show their weaknesses. Harden is a great player, but why not use Lin whenever Harden is off the floor? When you have overlapping talents, why not use them in a way that can maximize them both? Michale and Sampson continue to show very little understanding of what makes athletes great and how fragile their confidense can be. A good coach can steer a player in such a way that gets the best out of them. Your augument that they simply see Lin as a serviceable PG is less of an excuse, but Rather an indictment of how poorly they coach.
Lol, Beverly being compared to Harden! That's just too much. What's sad is, lots of people think Beverly is either = or greater than Lin. Same with TD.
I was on some Rocket forum where someone posted a thread suggesting Beverly should start over Lin, and all the responses were basically in agreement.
Is Kenoshi actually comparing Beverly to harden?! And he thinks we are over reaching? I'm sorry I recently joined this site cause I couldn't stand the morons at clutch, but didn't know you guys had a resident moron here. I still can't get over the fact that he said he is a better supporter of Lin because he has been following him for a long time. Who da fuck says things like that?
Khuang trust me. I'd love for Jeremy to be the best player. The reality is no matter what, Jeremy has not been able to reach his potential this season at least not yet. Also even Jeremy himself said harden is the best player on this team .. And with that mindset he has no problem deferring to him like he did with Melo last year. However, at this point in time, u r in the minority to believe that Jeremy is the better player than harden.
I respect you all too much. I can sympathize with both sides here.
Also, let's not be corrupted by anti Lin hate on other boards. Don't let the racist haters get into your heads so that you guys start fighting each other. This site is a HAVEN where we are all actually united in supporting Lin's cause.
Bob, excellent point. This is why d'antoni was do instrumental in unleashing Linsanity. Whether out of desperation or not, he came to believe in Lin and wouldn't dare take him off the floor. True he ran him into the ground, but by doing so, he was able to boost lin's confidence to new heights. What we are seeing is complete opposite now. We have a coaching staff who repeatedly reveals their lack of trust in Lin. While I don't expect them to give the entire team to Lin, at least treat him like the " foundational piece" u brought him to be. It seems like whenever they have the opportunity Not to play Lin, eg TD getting some steals, threes, etc.. They will leave Lin on the bench . Soooo frustrating to see this.
All I said was are people actually crying about Lin not playing garbage time? And that's all that took for some rabid Lin fan who can't deal with "pressure" on Clutchfans to get on my case.
I swear Lin plays 26 minutes and produces great, but people gets butt hurt because they let Beverley play a little longer than usual that was doing good disrupting their offense albeit didn't produce points until garbage time. Not to mention they are against a team that always beat them in 4Q, heck last time they overcame what a 12-15pt deficit and beat Rox in the end? I'd keep Lin fresh too, albeit like I said I'd keep him on court slightly longer. But IMO if I was McHale I'd be concerned about his ankles, but none of the "Lin must play more minutes" side gives a crap, they just want to see him fill box scores.
But hey let Lin play 40 minutes and blow out his ankles, its what great fans do.
Nothing solidz said hasn't been said 1980198321312 times, Etane was right some people just like to keep on regurgitate old crap and bring NOTHING new to the discussion. No kidding his usage was low, like we didn't know? But its improving a whole lot because like it or not they recognize his importance.
But wow giving up 3 minutes of garbage time and its the end of the world.
Not even going to comment about absurdity of comparing Harden vs Beverley...I was using him as a quick example that it CAN happen, but whatever, go ahead take it out of context.
But hey, people won't get off my nuts because apparently they like my hairy balls. What can I say?
Sigh nevermind, I'll just stop here, don't really wanna argue anymore out of respect for KHuang :)
Solidz75 welcome to this site, we really are nice folks here, though some of us do get carried away sometimes, just ask willy about the last argument we had...And thanks to K.Smith calling me on my bullshit sometimes.
I'm not usually like this, for some reason I just felt really strongly about Lin having a good game and didn't see nothing wrong.
I don't like reading body language to make conclusions about a player's emotional state, but, when McHell took out the starters with 3 minutes left, Lin walked straight to the bench and sat down, while Harden (and the other starters?) were high-fiving it with the coaching staff and other players.
Was Lin the only starter that wasn't getting congrats from coaches along with Harden?
Because he was pissed that dumb and dumber were disrespecting him. They are oppressing him in a malice way. I am beginning to think that it was McHale that cut him last year and not Morey.
Jeremy Lin is one honest man. He may say things differently by being diplomatic but his face and body can't lie. When he is happy, he is happy. Wide smile, doing signs, giving high five, and cheering teammates. When he isn't happy, you will not see anything
Because of McHale's low IQ, I didn't think he was malice, but I was wrong. Usually malice or evil people tend to have very high IQ. I hate this bastard.
What? Not happy about his own production in this game? Uh, I think he was happy about it, what he was pissed about was his 3 minute playing time in the fourth quarter, being brought in cold after sitting out for almost an entire quarter.
@kenoshi, you're right. The thing is he did produce but just wasn't given enough chance to produce just a little bit more. Out of those 26 minutes he played mostly with hot ball dominant Harden on the floor as well.
I don't know why people aren't happy. He demonstrated AGAIN today that his shooting is improving, he is become a consistent producer!
I say he wasn't happy because of how things turned out. His production was great for 26 minutes but more likely he is a bit bummed of not doing more esp in light of Harden's production. Of anyone on the team he wants to feel worthy esp given the attention he gets, even though he IS worthy, and I'm sure he was looking forward to playing the last 3 minutes instead of it becoming garbage time.
Lin is a true competitor, even against his own teammates! He doesn't mind taking back seat when Harden is doing well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to put up all star numbers as well!
This is JLIn fan site not the Houston Rockets fan site. I'm and I hope all of us are here on this board because of Jeremy Lin, our boy. Every game we watch, his performance and future development are of my utmost concern, not any others'. If I want to talk about the Rox, I'll go to other game threads. Not to fight with anybody, I hate Mchale even more after he pulled out Lin and not sent him back till the game was almost over. Boy, I love JLIN more after this game!
Well, honestly the only reason why I follow the Rockets is because of Lin. But, because of Lin I want the Rockets to do good. He will be here for minimum three years, so might as well back his team too. I think he would like that. And if Rockets succeed, more than likely Lin will succeed too. I'm a Lin's fan, and because of Lin I'm a Rockets "fan." The moment Lin goes to another team, I will follow that team and forget about the Rockets. Meanwhile, I care cause Lin can't play ball by himself. He needs his teammates, and this team for the next 3 years and who knows if even longer.
I understand alcsd. But I don't do it for them. I do it for Lin. Yes, sometimes... a lot of times I get frustrated. Lately just about the substitution pattern. But we need to win, I so want to see Lin playing in the playoffs in his first full season as a starter that I need to root for all of them. It doesn't mean I approve of every single decision the coaching staff makes. But, I want to see Lin succeed and for that we also need the Rockets to succeed. If the Rockets fail, Lin goes right down with them.
Where is your faith in Lin and his team! 0_0 Na man, common lol They will make the playoffs and we will see Linsanity balling. So much that the finals will be Knicks vs Rockets and Lin will eat them alive. Then every single news outlet will have as a headline. "NYK made the worst mistake in any sport. Lin beats Knicks 4-0 in the finals!"
I don't agree with your statement. If Harden is the franchise player, if they fail, then Harden's ass look bad, not Lin.
Good coaches see that Lin is being misused. One of them with a brain will ask for Lin next year because he will know how to use Lin better. And history will repeat itself and Rockets will look stupid for letting Lin go.
alcsd, nah, Lin will be the scapegoat, no matter what, if and when Houston fails, and they'll talk about how Harden and the Rockets could have done something if Lin didn't hold them back.
Harden is the Rocket's golden boy, and any flaws (turnovers) will be ignored or rationalized away.
@alcsd, seriously are you really that naive? They will spin it anyway they can and crucify Lin for not stepping up even though it is entirely not true.
NBA is a white controlled league with black dominant players association.
Right, you want only Lin to do well but fail to understand basketball is a team game. Yeah sure, Lin will make it to the playoffs all by himself.
Yer a troll and a half.
If you love Lin, you will talk about his team. Because his success depends on them, and vice versa. You will analyze Lin's teams performance, just as well as reasons why he isn't because his teammates isn't producing.
If you have been following Lin, you would KNOW that his team sometimes is his worse enemy. You would know his assist numbers would be higher IF he wasn't limited by post players that can't finish.
You would know he struggled on this TEAM because he wasn't being played CORRECTLY, on this TEAM.
So if you love Lin, you will talk about his team. If you don't, you obviously don't care about his success, because is a symbiotic relationship.
LOL, you just lost the last bit of my respect. I wouldn't even want to reply to all your accusation. Read all my previous posts before you use those nasty words. Shame that I thought all JLin fans are refined and cultured.
I'm here for Jeremy Lin actually. It's not about padding his stats as I don't think anyone else has mentioned this either but some of you assume that's all we care about. I care about his role on this team and how he's utilized.
No shit we want the Rockets to do well because that's Jeremy's team.
Ksmith, I hear you. I actually hate this obsession about stats and numbers, because they often don't measure skills that are very important but are not easily quantified. Also, if you are familiar with players like Kobe Bryant and Carmelo Anthony, you would know that it's actually a BAD thing for the team if they put up big numbers, because the team often loses those games.
What's maddening about JLin's treatment is that they don't seem to appreciate or even realize that he has an ability to run an offense efficiently and smoothly, an ability that both TD and Beverly lack, and which is why they will be perennial back-ups.
Saw a clip of an interview with BIll Russell, largely regarded as one of the best players to ever play the game. BUT, if you look at his numbers, they don't really stand out. And, one thing he did really well, block shots, wasn't even a stat when he played. And the great thing about Russell is that he could care less about how many shots he blocked, or his numbers.
I can careless about your respect. I call it like it is, telling us his team's development isn't important when he depends on them just as they depend on him, is quite frankly stupid.
Lin when used properly elevates the team and each individual's game just grows and flourishes. He MADE Patterson and Morris better, look at Patterson now.
When his team doesn't trust him, he gets no touches, no shots, no screens, nowhere. When his team has his back, he becomes more confident and his game improves by leaps and bounds.
So why not talk about his team when its integral to his success anywhere regardless which team its on?
Omg is Kenoshi like the biggest troll on the Jeremy lin's fan site? He acts like he is the best supporter of Lin ( mind u he will literally let you know like he is a personal friend if his) and then bashes people who rightfully express their disdain for the coach who sees Lin in a different light than the lin fans do. Who da hell is the troll on this site . He needs to just go back to Clutch.. Wouldn't be surprised if he is just here to troll. What a moron!
We are all not just Lin fans, but fans of each other. Enough.
I find it justifiable for people to want Lin to play NBA minutes consistent with that of other starting point guards, and I also find it justifiable for McHale to not overplay Lin when he's already had a stellar night putting the game out of reach.
This is the NBA where everybody has to make sacrifices to get wins. That includes coaches, not just players.
I mean idk. But would Linsanity had happened if Lin didn't win any of those games in NY? I doubt it. I'm just saying. I think as Lin fans we do him a disservice by not "caring" about the Rockets in general and just caring if Lin got this or that while omitting the obvious improvement in his game and his role in this team. For example, he now gives orders, Harden and him talk during the game about different things. I mean, all these things are important. Yes he only play 26 minutes, but Rockets won, Lin rested, and actually had a pretty efficient game that will push his stats up in ppg, fg% and 3pt %. And please don't think that because there is no game tomorrow that it means that players should be rested in games when needed. The toll of each game throughout a season beats on you. That's why I'm worried about Parsons and Harden. Their minutes per game need to come down a little bit. That's why everyone is saying that the blazers probably won't make the playoffs. Because they rely too much on their starters.
@k smith, I haven't here long enough to know what this Kenoshi dude is like. But I'm wary of people who declare himself to be a better supporter of Lin in his post like he is a persona friend. And when they start using profanity cause they have no answer that is when I draw the line.
I came here to share my views with other Lin fans like me. It is cathartic to vent your frustration with those who feel similarly to u. I feel like Lin is being marginalized by McHale. Despite the win, it is bitter sweet.
The other depressing thing about this game were the Houston announcers. My god, they were going on and on about how great Damian Lillard is.
Then, when Lin made a nice runner late in the third quarter, one of the announcers finally said, hey, we've been going on about the greatness of Lillard, we've forgotten to mention that the team's own point guard was having a stellar game.
Clyde even said he thinks Lillard will become an elite point guard next season.
Without saying it explicitly, they were basically saying, wouldn't it be great to have Lillard as Houston's point guard?
Ok, bull. You're interpreting this in a very manufactured way. I've been paying very close attention to the commentators and what I've noticed is that for one thing: Clyde is REALLY hard on all the players. I found that both commentators were highly complimenting of Lin this game. And most certainly gave Lin his due.
Lillard is a rookie and will probably be rookie of the year. It is pretty amazing how good he is for this being his first year: Nothing wrong with underscoring that point.
I even recall Drexler saying that if Lin can keep up this shooting "watch out" You're cherry picking what the commentators are saying.
No, I am not. Watch the game again, and see how often they talked about Lillard, and how often the talked about Lin. Yes, they complimented Lin when he made a nice play, then, it was onto gushing about Lillard and Harden.
But, here's the real kicker - Lin OUTPLAYED Lillard today, and the rocket announcers acted like it was the reverse.
@bamboo forest is right. you guys are so blinded. worrell and drexler were giving lins props this game. they mentioned how he was controlling the tempo of the game. and in the fourth quarter they mentioned how he played as well as lillard even though lillard is getting all the hype this year.
dude, @roberlin watch the fourth quarter again. worrell (who some view as the most anti-lin) stated that lin played as well as lillard even though lillard was getting all the hype this year!!
@Robertlin: Here is your fatal mistake: You are assessing their conversation by taking score of how much they say positive about Lin vs. how much they say positive about Lillard. But, they, the commentators, are just, you know, commentating. They are not obsessed with "Gee, am I saying as many good things about Lin as everyone else?" Do you really expect that what commentators talk about is going to be even handed? It's not going to be even handed for any player. It's a flow. It just comes naturally. You're N.I.T. P.I.C.K.I.N.G. They were absolutely complimenting to Lin and giving him serious respect. Who cares if they were focused on Lillard for a good portion of the game.
And to Gene's point... they even said, during the game, that Lin played as well. And I remember Drexler saying "good point" after Worrell made this point. I think you're overreacting.
Also, Lin's performance was 'quiet' in the sense that you almost didn't notice he was scoring all those points. He did it in a very even handed way. Whenever a player scores like this it isn't as obvious how good they have performed until you take a look at the stats.
Bamboo Forest, you are right, people here are going too far and basically cherry picking everything. So anything the Rockets commentators praised Wade and Kobe (and it happened a lot), did it imply that they basically say "wouldn't it be great to have them as Houston's SG instead of Harden?".
I also like that while Lin plays to win games, his fans here want him to play for his own stats and the only thing they are concerned about is whether he gets good stats, not how he plays the game.
oh gosh, I hope the moderators don't find out that all this time I've been three people. Cara is my favorite because she is feisty ^^ I guess I have multiple personality disorder.
there was a poster recently asked a question: k.smith are you kara smith on one of Lin's Sundance film festival articles but then the comment was deleted when I went through the thread again...
no, we are not the same person. but i'll say bamboo forest, cara, and kenoshi are some of the handful of reasonable ones here haha. and btw...i think cara is a he
gene, nah, i don't think you're all conspiring, it's just that you guys pretty much just say the same BS over and over again, so I was wondering if you were all the same person.
Also, with some of the arguments you guys make, it seems like you don't know very much about basketball or are new fans. It's hard to converse with someone who doesn't know the basic protocols of how the game is played and managed.
So, for example, if you don't realize that bringing a starter back in with just six minutes left in the fourth is not a normal substitution pattern, then, that person first needs to be educated about how substitutions generally are done in the NBA by competent NBA coaches.
@roberlin oh yes...you know so much about basketball. i'm not a guru, but i've followed as a fan since the early 80s. FYI starters don't always finish games...a la manu ginobli, james harden of okc, sam cassell on the rox championship team, etc. etc.
jlin will get there. people have doubted him his whole career. he doesn't need us to fight his battles for him, but to just root for him every step of the way.
bamboo, you should do some research and find out about the context and reasons why Parker got benched very early in his career, and then compare that to Lin's benchings.
gene, FYI, you got it backwards. Manu Ginobili has NOT been a starter with the Spurs, but, would finish games in the fourth. That's because Manu is an awesome player, but for strategic reasons, his coach wanted him coming off the bench. Same thing with James Harden in OKC.
But, Manu and Harden are not your typical subs. Most subs are subs because they aren't good enough to be a starter. Manu and Harden were subs (nominally) even though they were more than good enough to be starters.
@roberlin you were making it seem that it was unheard of for competent coaches to finish 4th quarters without their starters. i was just giving examples where there are instances where good teams have gone that direction.
btw, last five games: "The last 5 games Lin is averaging 16.8 ppg, shooting 53% from the field and 50% from beyond the arc, 6.4 assist and 1.8 steals"
very nice. as lin fans, we can all be happy with that...he's gotten better and better as the season has come along
Gene, you have given examples that are not the norm, and yes, competent coaches sometimes finish games without their starters. But, usually I can understand their decisions. With McHell, however, his substitution patterns with Lin are arbitrary, inconsistent, and sometimes bizarre.
Well, it couldn't get better and it did! Let's go Lin & Rockets. As long as we don't face OKC or Denver in the first round of playoff we can maybe pass to 2nd round.
Watched half the game on my phone in real-time and then the other half on my computer well after the game has finished. I think someone summed it up best that the coaches think of Lin more as a Patterson with their substitution pattern than a dynamic playmaker who makes a difference. They were after all the same people who cut him. Lin must know that they think of him the same way as they did last year - no better or worse. If Lin ever becomes the primary for some reason on any team, watch out. His shooting is great now and he will be a more legit scorer. I just wish the coaches would see how great he is because they could be a team that pushes > .667 winning percentage. I just wish there was another team that would have signed him that had not cut him previously.
My issue is that Lin is not even getting those high 38 min per game now.
I guess one consolation to watching a game that is archived is that you can skip to when Lin plays.
Stu, I was the one that said the coaches think of Lin on the level of Patterson. And what the Lin haters don't seem to get is that Lin fans that get angry at the coaches' substitution patterns are angry not just for Lin, but their under-utilization of Lin is undermining the team.
It comes down to perception. We regard Lin much more highly than McHale. If your perception of a player is not high to begin with, u simply will not see all the good things that Lin brings to the game. McHale clearly has the blinders on when it comes to Lin. Tonight was a clear example.
For some reason they do not like to play Lin against Lillard...its this eye test which I think is subconscious racism/disrespect whatever you want to call it.
I am trying to be positive. Lin's jumper is looking very very good. I am shocked actually how quickly it has come back (3pt) and his mid-range 2 is great.
I would love to see Lin be the primary but he's doing very well. He could easily average 18+/10 on any other team without a ball-dominant SG like Harden/Kobe.
Lin just had one of his more efficient games all season.
That's the thing. In the first quarter when Lin sat, Lillard went off on Beverley. So I don't get this decision, unless McHale has the blinders on and just can't see what we see. As bad as it is, I understand if McHale was sitting Lin because he was messing up. I just don't get it when Lin stays on the bench for 12 minutes, during important stretches of game, even when he had been playing well. That is what is incredibly maddening for me to see this season.
Solidz, unfortunately, most people seem to share McHale's (mis)perceptions of Lin's abilities.
What was funny in a depressing way was reading a Rocket game thread where someone asked, "How come the offense plays like crap when Lin isn't in?" That person could see the difference in play with and without Lin, but, yet could not understand why he could not understand or fathom that the difference is Lin and his ability to run an offense.
Ok, I have a theory for the insanity with Lin in Houston. It goes to what the announcers said tonight about how Harden was going to try for a triple-double tonight. To do that, he'd need 10 assists. To get 10 assists, you need to basically be the primary ballhandler, and have the coach let you be the primary ballhandler.
They did, and Harden had an incredible game shooting and distributing. Basically, Harden played the role of SG and PG and did so very well tonight. In fact, Harden was so good, they could sit their primary point guard for a whole quarter, and the offense still was running efficiently under Harden.
If Harden can score and dish out 8-10 assists a game, you've basically made Lin completely dispensable. You could then have an offense run through Harden, try to trade Lin for a power-forward, and replace Lin with TD/Beverly for this season and then during the off-season, get a point guard who is a more polished shooter and/or a defensive specialist (ala Tony Allen).
I think Morey and McHale believe that the team would be better with a good power forward and Harden running the offense as shooting point guard, than with Lin as PG and Patterson as their PF.
In this scenario, say goodbye to Houston, Jeremy Lin.
Well, Linsanity did nothing to change people's view about Lin it seems. For me all I want to see is Lin being treated like a starting pg, like a Rubio, Lillard, Nash. That's it. Lets see if Lin will prove us right or wrong. If he ends up sucking, then I will be the first to admit Lin sucks. But after what he did last year, and not having that same opportunity this year.. And just wondering what could have been.. This is the most frustrating about this season. Just show some trust in your player McHale. Find out what u have in Lin.
I wouldn't trust Morey either. I think les and only les was the one responsible for getting Lin. I don't think the rockets will trade for anyone, but I'm sure thy will go after cp3 this off season. In the same light, they would get rid of ASik in a blink of an eye, if they can get d12. Only harden is untouchable.
@Roberlin, What you said can be one probable scenario which explains for the rationale behind the coaches' experimental rotations that left Lin on the bench far too long. While it's remotely possible(some posters said Lin is relatively cheap compared to other PGs of his caliber, coupled with his marking appeal) that Lin will be traded, i'm hoping Lin will land on a team that truly appreciates his potential and allows him to play PG starter mins and run the offense.
My predirction is the rockets will finsh 6th or 7th. I just don't want them to play OKC in the 1st round of play offs. If Jlin shines in the play offs the rest of the season doesn't matter. houson in not a high market team, but the playoffs bring big attention.
Agree! Let's hope that the Rox make it to at least the 2nd round of Playoffs so that Lin gains invaluable playoffs experience. Is it too much to ask, IDK, but I'm just hopeful.
That is really all we can hope for. He has clearly been improving the last 5 or 6 games. Whether Mchale acknowledges it or not, all we can hope for is he doesn't get discouraged and continues to improve. if this is this frustrating for us, imagine how annoyed he must be. i hope for the day he proves all these doubters wrong... yet again.
More like, "How am I supposed to play if everyone is looking at me expecting me to make a miraculous play when I don't have enough minutes and full control on offense"
But hey its not like we as fans can do anything much about it either. For me personally I can only pray and hope everyday
Just like JLin , I know who the real coach is. If that coach in Houston does not do it the way the real coach wants it to be done , then he better know , his days are numbered.
Has two true because when Lin plays 36 min, in the next game he is dead. The next 3 games the Rockets are away from home Also when Lin and Harden plays together, the two stay hardly hot then they leave only Harden on the court and Lin on the bench Initially Lin wanted Rockets win your games but now he also wants to play Lin was very sad today He did not sit near to the coaches If Harden continues hot on the court without Lin, will be the end for Lin in Houston
Lin finally overcame the Portland nemesis in a blowout victory.
There's nothing for you to fear about Lin being knocked off Houston. If Lin is dumped by Houston, he'll simply continue dominating on another team. Plus Lin will come back to haunt Houston.
Lin is the great point guard of the young generation. Nobody is as good as him.
teh, I don't mind he is traded ASAP to whatever team who will respect him as a starting pg. as some of the LOHs mentioned that "its lucky his contract is only 3 years". it holds true for me as well as a Lin Fan.
As much as I hate the Mchail treatment towards Lin, I am glad that he can take this opportunity to rest and heal up his body (the ankle?) and not being hurt all season long and then see what happen in the off-season.
Ulysses Lin is a lot stronger than that, have faith in him?
Harden can't win games by himself. He knows full well Lin isn't a roleplayer. As their dynamics get better I think you'll see them sharing the reins more. Some of that is already starting to surface, and Lin is playing PG heck of a lot more.
I didn't really see him regress in his role of late either.
Now that may not be what FO wants, but I think its how it'll play out.
I think there was a bit of deferring to Harden today, but Harden was shooting lights out, nothing wrong with that.
It's hard being a trailblazer, and that is what Lin is to the NBA. These pioneers are the ones that bear the heavy burden of adversity to make the way easier for others. Although the substitutions and treatment of Lin have been upsetting since I'm a Lin supporter first, I guess I console myself knowing that this is simply part of what it means to be the first in something, and to fight against "social norms." Not being an expert about the NBA, I don't know what other coach would treat Lin like this.
I realize it's pointless to think about what could have been, but it seems to me that Mike Woodson would not have played Lin this way (only based on what I saw last year and what I'm seeing this year with how Woodson runs the Knicks), and that if Lin were benched, there would actually be a legit reason. Believing this, I hate Houston for the "poison pill" contract. Lin isn't greedy. I could withstand Lin being paid less than what he may be worth in the short term, and be supported and develop and maximize his potential than this. He would have also been portrayed better in the media (not that this necessarily matters), but it certainly riles people when the media attributes Lin with things he did not say or simply is not.
I also think Houston makes Lin's situation worse than it would have been in NY to the extent that most of the Knicks' fans supported Lin. It seems Lin simply doesn't have that kind of support from the Rockets' fans for whatever reason which is completely inexplicable to me. Maybe NY was too far away. This just breaks my heart. I'm holding out for the best.
But on the flipside of the coin, you could say Rockets are the only ones that believed in Lin. Regardless if how much McHale ate crow, we know for a fact that Morey publically regretted letting Lin go, and Les is probably playing a huge factor.
No one else offered to counter, and NYK would have gotten away with murder.
Let me put it this way: A much lesser PG did really well this year with the Knicks. IF Lin had stayed he'd outshine Carmelo in a heartbeat. If you don't think there'll be unexplained benchings or melotanking/melodrama, think again.
It's too bad we don't get another game until Sunday. It's good rest for the players but it sucks for the fans.
ReplyDeleteAnd Lin got even extra rest compared to the other starters, bonus for him!
Delete@k.smith~ You were asking about LINE-UPS.
DeleteMight as well repost this to provide some perspective on the coaching staff. [Not taking away fr what an AWESOME player Harden is, BUT. <- The coaching staff should be tweaking things to maximize their talents in order to serve the team better.
Delete^ HOU has been a +1.3 w/ Harden on the floor & +5.4 w/ him off. [Only 554 min. w/ him off & 1,909 w/ him on.] This is data the coaching staff cannot not have. They should be tweaking things better, but since they are eking out Ws, they go with [not the best strategy, w/c they are not motivated to seek out] good enough. They are extremely attached to their pre-conceived notions [for whatever reasons] and it's not maximizing their talents. I can see the coaching staff applying this type of attitude to other players, i.e. JLin. There is simply no motivation to revise their pre-conceived notions on him. The situation hasn't deteriorated to the point where they will be forced to. [As for the harm this type of behavior might entail, it's too remote and unrelatable to those concerned, it's hard to take them into consideration. After all, as long as it's a W, it's all good.]
Delete~This has nothing to do with Harden. He is the player that he is. The coaching staff have the relevant data and should be making wise decisions.
It is worrying isn't it. They may eke out wins against or even blow out mediocre to good teams, but they will have trouble winning against top teams with the coach's current tendencies. Top coaches will not find it hard to defend a strategy highly reliant on Harden.
DeleteIts going to take quite a few embarrassing losses by top notch teams for McHale/Sampson to get it wilc :/
DeleteWatching the Heat game its almost like they contained Rox effortlessly. Which baffles me today why Blazers didn't think to contain Harden...Well other than the fact that Harden was shooting lights out lol :P
But nevertheless I thought Lin improved a lot over past matches vs Heat, he is doing well :)
I especially enjoy seeing JLin beating his man off the dribble going both right and left. Accordingly, most of the he can't go left comments have died down. And JLin's finishes with that finger roll coming down the middle of the lane...that is a signature move right alongside his no-look passes.
DeleteAs for Harden, he was hot. I thought Blazers could have tried forcing the ball out of Harden's hands with double teams. They didn't try it probably because the Rox were passing the ball around well plus they were hitting their open shots. Harden must cool down and you'd rather let him play iso and take the rest of the team out of rhythm...well not for this game! Harden was amazing...13/16 shooting and got teammates involved as his assists numbers showed. I would still rather have JLin take those assists, not because of stats, but because JLin sets a pace to the game which even Harden cannot do.
@via, as always, thanks for the info!!
Deleteoh...I am so excited! game like this will let me see so many new id join us!
ReplyDeletesaw a pic of lin with a pissed face expression! via, can you post that?
Deletetrue, lydia :D the more the merrier
Deletehaha, lydia, you're another smart poster who makes me smile often.
Deletelet them all come like the snow storm! more people more energy in the house and make us warm :)
Deletebut not all of you are in the cold weather though...this site is so diverse!
DeleteHe should be pissed, because of his dumbass coaches' disrespectful substitution patterns, he got to play only 3 minutes in the fourth. I've never seen the starting point guard pulled along with the rest of the starters because of a huge lead, and the sub coming in for garbage time actually having played most of the non-garbage time minutes in the fourth. Shit, basically dumbass McHell, by bringing in Lin with just 6 minutes in the fourth in a blow-out game, was basically bringing him in for garbage time.
Delete@lyd~ I'll remember to post that, in a bit.
DeleteExcited to hear about Jeremy competing in the skills challenge. I hope he wins it!
ReplyDeleteLove your positivity, hope it rubs off on me. Ha!
DeleteThe reason why the coaches hate Lin is because the owner and GM would not resign the player they loved Goran Dragic. So the coached use any lame ass excuse for not playing him. They changed the offense, not play him starter minutes anything but not to see lin shine.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they hate Lin, they just think he sucks.
DeleteClutch fans also blame Lin for Dragic departure. That is how dumb those people are.
DeleteChuckT - the coaches don't hate Lin and they really don't want him to fail. They just don't think he's that good of a player. It's the honest truth. Lin is easily replaceable, he's just not one of their core players. This team also doesn't really utilize the PG position like other teams either. IMO, a PG like Chalmers or George Hill (guys who don't have great court vision, don't need the ball a lot but can score) would do really well next to Harden.
DeleteThe big issue here is, that Lin and Harden's strengths overlap. And since Harden is the elite player out of the two, they're going to go with him.
Now that Lin is hitting his shot, Harden/coaching staff can focus on him becoming the premiere combo guard they've always envisioned. You shouldn't expect Lin to average more than 6-7 asst/season while with the Rockets bc the guy that's going to score and orchestrate the offense is going to be Harden. We've been seeing it more and more each game as Lin's J has improved.
I don't think they see Lin as the combo guard they envisioned. I think they see him as trade bait for a power forward. This game, I think, really showed to me that for the coaching staff, Lin is a dispensable player, not because they think he totally sucks, but, because he's redundant. In their minds, they have a better version of Lin in Harden, and, I don't think they believe Lin will really develop into a reliable spot-up shooter.
DeleteI mean, think of it this way - if the Rockets had first signed Harden, not Lin, do you think they would have also gone after Lin? No, they'd have gone after a power forward, and sign some servicable point guard like Ray Felton more for his shooting abilities than his ability to set up the offense, because a Ray Felton/OJ Mayo type guard would complement Harden better.
They are not going to trade Lin. Beverley is not a replacement for Lin, neither is TD. They are great backups, but no one on Rockets can play like Lin.
DeleteHardLin are a great combo. They can compliment each other well, I hope they continue to develop that chemistry, its integral to each other's success on this team.
What I want to see more is McHale actually include MORE people in the rotation. Their bench is deeper than they think, esp at this high pace. Harden can't be a racehorse forever, he will break down, like he has already shown. Unless they want another 7 game losing streak, they need to find a better rotation.
When they are ready, they will be the best backcourt in the entire NBA.
Mchale and Sampson waved Lin last year so basiclly they screwed up letting him go to NY. Now Lin is back with a 25 mil contract and that is why they don't care to make life easy for Lin. Subconsciously or deliberately, it doesn't matter, they already see him as a failure.
DeleteHowever, Lin must take the positive with the bad. He's got a solid contract, a job for 2 more years in the nba and a chance to prove his worth, which he is doing by scoring. No mater how much these coaches push Harden and relegate Lin to third option, he still must get his minutes because they already paid up with 25 mil. I keep saying that he just needs to continue to shoot and not worry about passing the ball. The coaches have made him a SG now so shoot! That's his role now because there is no need for 2 PGs on the floor. If Lin keeps shooting and work hard on scoring, he'll get another opportunity down the road. Nothing else will guarantee that he'll have a job in the future except if he keeps improving his scoring. Just keep shooting lights out!
I've watched and seen a couple Morey interviews and I don't know if they would have signed Lin had they gotten Harden first. In one interview he said, "probably". I guess that's encouraging but what else is he supposed to say? I think we all know that Harden and Lin are ball dominant guards and most people have acknowledged that Lin is not an ideal complimentary player to Harden. I've seen Rockets fans suggest that a strong defensive minded PG that can shoot the three, without dominating the ball would be an ideal fit. I'm not arguing against that.
DeleteI don't think they'll trade Lin unless he completely sucks it up the rest of this year and next year but if Lin continues to play well and improve, I don't know if they'd want to keep him either. Like i've said, the Rockets system doesn't really need a traditional PG so if they can find a service pg to compliment Harden and their future star PF, why would they spend a bunch of money resigning Lin?
DeleteRoberlin wrote:
>> I don't think they see Lin as the combo guard they envisioned.
k.smith said Harden is - NOT Lin.... k.smith pretty much agrees with you. I do too. I hope they trade Lin; sooner the better. I bet Lin will be VERY happy. But that he'll be a little sad to leave Houston because he enjoyed playing in Houston and everybody treated him well, but that it's just a business. Hahahaha. Lin: When it happens, try not to burst with inner happiness; behave and act a teeny bit sad.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deletek.smith,
DeleteMaybe Lin should purposely NOT shoot 3-pointer much unless the game is on the line (he's been making a lot of 3s lately). Otherwise, Lin might not be traded. On the other hand, they can get a 3-point specialist for cheaper.
Houston is a crappy city for BB. And except for a city like Austin, TX people are mostly close-minded people and racists (as bad as the South in general, but probably a bit worse). They obviously don't like blk people either except (and only for the duration) when an athlete plays good for their team.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteConspiracy theory tells me that Stern will make sure that Lakers will make the playoffs. Too much money are at stake for Lakers to miss the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteRockets might not make the playoffs.
'so happy they got this win against Portland!
ReplyDeleteWe might not be all completely happy the way it played out for Jeremy (as many here perceived), but then again , as it has always been , Jeremy will find his way through these circumstances. Somehow , I firmly believe that Jeremy Lin is a WINNER , and that no matter what people do to downplay and minimize him , He will find his way to come out on TOP!
Just you wait and see...
I'm fairly new to this forum, so someone explain, why would Lin hating trolls come trolling here after a game like tonight?
ReplyDeleteWhat are you talking about? What trolling?
DeleteIn the second half thread, someone said stop feeding the trolls.
DeleteRoberlin,
DeleteIf you follow this board enough. After awhile you will know who the trolls are. I don't respond to trolls. One of the patterns is one troll will side it or defend another troll.
The only troll trying to screw up this place was some IDIOT with a funky looking screenname coming after me on the other thread.
DeleteWhere is that guy? I'm gonna tear him into shreds.
If you are a Rocket's fan, then you can't be happier with the result tonight. The team played well and won a crucial game that will do much to improve its position for a playoff spot. However, this is not Clutchfan, but a site that bears Jeremy's name. And if you are a Lin fan, as most of you are, you really can't more frustrated with how things transpired.
ReplyDeleteNow, I am not saying that Jeremy is better or equally as good than Harden. Harden is clearly by far the best player on the team. He is a special talent who should be treated as such.
Unlike some of you, I am also not saying that Jeremy needs to get a chance to "shine" like Harden does. The coaching staff is not gonna make sure one player shines - that is a ludicrous concept
Lastly, there is no conspiracy about how the coaching staff is purposefully setting up Jeremy to fail. That is just a as ridiculous.
What it comes down to is simply, respect, or lack thereof from the coaching staff toward Jeremy. They simply do not see him a transformative player who can change the course of the game. He is not a "foundational piece". He is not the player who, we as his fans, see.
The reality is that they simply view him as a servicable PG - a role player in the same standing as Patterson. He is dispensable. This is why same frustrating things happen over and over to him.
For example, if there is any hint of back up playing well , whether TD or Beverly, Jeremy will sit like he did for a long time.
This is McHale's basic use of Lin - Play the first quarter until mid to end of it. Return early in second quarter and finish the half. Start Third until the mid way. Come back early in 4th quarter to finish the game.
However, anytime TD/Bev shows some spark, then the time Lin sits in the beginning of 2nd or 4th can go on for a long time. Now this usually has nothing to do with how Lin has been playing up to that point. McHale will ride TD/Bev and sit Lin as long as he can until: 1) the lead has widened 2) we are eventually n deep shit because TD/Bev has been left in too long. I think Lin sat like 12 minutes between end of third and mid of 4th.
Tonight, McHale sat Lin not to rest him as some of you may think - but because he felt that Beverly gave Rockets better chance to win than Lin. It didn't matter that Lin was playing well to that point. The same thing happened in Denver. You think this will change when the playoff comes? That's just a wishful thinking, my friends. Just watch next game, any time TD/Bev plays well, Lin will sit for a long time.
Until McHale perception of Lin as a playmaker and a player changes, he will never see all the good he brings to the game. As such, his perception of Lin will never match that of Harden.
So this is how it will be. I think as a player, Lin has turned a corner. He is playing much better. I just wish it wasn't this way. No reason I should be pissed in a game where Lin's team won.
On a side note, I will get to see things up close this Sunday when Rox come to Sacramento. I got seats one row behind the bench - so maybe I will pick up things that will either prove or disprove my point. I hope he plays well and doesn't get disrespected like he was today.
And Morey has giving Mchale full approval of the shitting treatment of Lin. The more Harden and Parson shine the more Morey is going to look good.
DeleteI haven't agreed with all of Mchale's substitutions. And he's done strange substituions with other players too (at least strange to me and my level of basketball understanding).
DeleteWhen he did put Lin back in the 4th this game, I do not consider that garbage time. It was likely the Rocket's would win but this was still a very critical point of the game.
If you look at Lin's average minutes over the course of the year, he averages 33 minutes a game which is very respectable. However, if there is any issue at all, it's what you have underscored: Mchale just doesn't have sufficient belief in Lin. But it's not some grand conspiracy theory.
Lin's shooting seems to be getting better recently. I hope he can continue this and let's see how that opens up the driving lanes for him further.
When you sit a player for 12 minutes, you don't have much faith in the player. That's it. Period. No other way to look at it. This has been a recurring theme this season when it comes to Lin.
DeleteIt's one thing if Lin hadn't been playing well though. In Denver and this game, there was absolutely no reason to sit Lin for that long. 12 minutes on the bench is something you do to punish a player.
No conspiracy. Just disrespect. You just can't see all the good a player does, when your perception of that player is negative to begin with. That's the sad truth
Solidz, excellent analysis. Yes, you were able to clearly articulate what I've been trying to say in my angry diatribes, lol.
DeleteOnly thing I disagree with is that Rocket fans also should be concerned about Lin's mistreatment, because, as I and people here believe, Lin is the "motor" of the team, and how well the team does is going to depend on how well Lin plays, not Harden. And, again, if ROcket fans think long term, if they consider this season and the playoffs, and not just this win, and the next couple of years, they should be concerned with how McHell's treatment of Lin is counterproductive for the team's development in the next three years.
I agree with your post. If it was not for Les Alexander Lin would have been benched along time ago. Its too band that the rockets are winning games. This means that Mcfail will never get fired.
DeleteLin is a top 15-10 point guard now. He is way better than that overrated Rubio.
ChuckT, if the Rocket's weren't winning games and Lin was getting better stats, it would, in my opinion, look worse for Lin. If a team's winning it means the players on the court are doing something right. Wins are the highest demonstration of skills. That is why players with amazing stats but no rings are often not thought as good as those with perhaps similar stats but more rings. Winning is everything.
Delete...
DeleteYou guys would rather they leave him in there to play garbage time and cheapen his status? I don't even think Lin wants that. ALL of Blazer's starters left the field, they quit, its just respect to let the bench battle it out.
His substitution wasn't any different than previous games. He did well, and was scheduled to close, afterall its been a known problem that Rox run out of gas in previous meetings, it would be nice if JLin was well rested for the last 6 minutes.
They played Harden 2 minutes less than JLin during the GSW rout. I can imagine the Harden lovers: OMG WTF MCHALE LET HARDEN PLAY WHY DID JLIN GET MOAR MINUTES?!? UNFAIR, THEY JUST HAVE IT IN FOR HARDEN!
@Solidz - you took the words straight out of my mouth.
DeleteRoberlin, Rockets fans do not care about Lin as much as we do, as long as the team wins. Do you ever go to Clutchfan? I've never seen a fan base so eager to see one of their players fail. They were even mocking him being in the Skills competition.
DeleteWhether we like it or not, Lin is dispensable to the Rocket's organization. I bet the Rox will try to get CP3 if at all possible as well as D12. Asik may be playing well now but he is also dispensable. They won;t blink at acquring D12 and trading away Asik. The only player who is not dispensable is obviously harden.
The only way Lin will ever come to reaching the play level of Linsanity is if he were to have a coach who believes in him as a player. This clearly will not occur under the watch of McHale. Unfortunately as long as the Rockets win and make the playoffs, he will not get fired.
Kenoshi.. are you kidding me? Tell me the last time a starting PG was benched for 12 straight minutes in a game. Would you bench a player for 12 straight minutes if you thought he was an intregral part of the team?
DeleteWe are lin fans here - and we are not happy about McHale's lack of faith in him. That's it. You can't possibly think otherwise. If you do, show some examples.
Then explain why they subbed Lin in at the 6 minute mark, like they do often and not just let Beverley play all of 4th?
DeleteBeverley wasn't going to close, anyone can see he isn't Lin and has not the impact on the game like Lin. Lin came in, scored a basket, and helped push the game over, Blazers gave up, Lin sat down with rest of starters.
I see nothing wrong.
Bamboo Forest,
DeleteIf Lin was playing more, we would've win more games. It's not about stats. It's about respect. There was absolutely nothing that Lin did in this game (or what Beverly did in this game) that warranted LIn being benched for 12 minutes. Would McHale sit Harden for 12 minutes if Delfino was making few threes? No way in hell. You simply cannot sit a player you believe in that long unless you don't think much of that player. That's the truth.
Yes, the Rockets (be it the management, coaching staff or the players and fans) don't have as much respect for Lin as they do for Harden. But so what? Objectively, what has Lin done in this league to command as much respect as someone like Harden? Don't tell me Linsanity and the 38 point game against Spurs because Harden has done way more than this.
DeleteKenoshi, you see nothing wrong with LIn sitting 12 minutes in a row? Are you serious? You really think McHale regards Lin as more than just a role player on the team? Wake up
DeleteIf Morey somehow succeeded in getting D12, this will be the downfall of his tenure. D12's contract will be another one of those toxic one just like Amare that is untradeable. Back injury is a serious thing, I think it's worse than a knee injury. In addition, he is a diva.
DeleteLast summer it was Les' idea to not give in to Orlando demands regarding D12. Les is not in love with D12, but Morey is.
Also, OKC did demand Parson as part of the trade, but Morey said no. It was well documented after the trade went through.
Lin's getting 33 minutes a game on average. Patterson, this game, only got one more minute and Patterson was playing superbly. I just don't see it like you do. While I don't agree with all of Mchale's substitutions, I think you take it too far.
DeleteThat's cool though; it's good to get your view on here. Especially because I think you argue your points well. And you acknowledge that Harden is the superior player and you dismiss the conspiracy theories.
DeleteKenoshi, subbing in the starter at the 6 minute mark is NOT NORMAL. He should be coming in much earlier, at the 9 or 10 minute mark, assuming he came out with 2 or 3 minutes left in the third.
DeleteCara, this is a LIn fan website. Of course, we are gonna think highly of him. All we are frustrated by is lack of respect the coaching staff has toward lin as a player. If you see LIn as such, then of course, you see nothing wrong with it.
DeleteBut we believe LIn to be much better than what McHale thinks of him and hence the frustration.
When Morey declares Lin to be one of the "foundational pieces", brings him over from Knicks with this "ridiculous" poison pill of a contract, and then he gets treated this way, we clearly have the right to complain about how they are marginalizing his role on offense.
Solidz75 no disrespect but get the fuck off my nuts, I've been here supporting Lin hell of a lot longer than you.
DeleteIf I had a penny for every time someone said Lin got robbed I'd be rich. Had it been a close game he would have started 4th, again, like they usually do, and Beverley would have saw nothing but bench.
Its a freaking pattern, stupid one, but one we've been seeing for the latter part of the season. McHale is predictable like that. They value Lin, but make no mistake Harden is their star.
I'll repeat again: WHAT THEY DID TODAY WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THEIR PREVIOUS GAMES WHEN TEAM IS DOING WELL AND HARDEN IS THE MAIN PRODUCER.
If Lin was crazy like Harden and hit 13/16 shots you think they would keep him on the bench?
He did great. He shut Lillard down, walked away shooting 6/10 16pts though IMO he got robbed on assists. But he had an ok game.
Gawd people just can't be satisfied unless he was allowed to shoot 25+ shots. Harden played great today, JLin is probably happy for him, just leave it at that.
We all know what JLin can do, just watch him shine at the skills challenge.
Bamboo, comparing Lin's minutes to Patterson's minutes is apropro, because the coaches don't think much of Patterson, either. Why do you think the Rockets are very open of the fact that their biggest need is a power forward? Because they don't think of Patterson as good enough for this team to become a real contender.
DeleteAnother thing, keep in mind they put more pressure on Lin than Harden. Problem is that spaces the floor for Harden. This backcourt is a 1-2 punch, either one at any time can become undefendable. Harden was on today, give him his dues. When Lin is on Harden has no problems taking a backseat.
DeleteLin is probably happy about the win and for Harden, and I'm happy with him.
Solids75, you are spot fucking on. i'm not even sure why people don't get this. You're not just talking about this game, you're talking about what's happened over the course of the entire season.
Deletebambooforest - NO ONE wants to pad Lin's stats. Obviously, wins matter but that's not what Solids75 is talking about or even disputing. It's not an either or kind of thing, it's about Lin's role and what it means to the team.
Kenoshi - I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one wants Lin to pad his stats, solids75 is talking about the usage of Lin during the entire course of the season.
Kenoshi,
DeleteBefore I get off your fucking nuts, I'll repeat again. Would you as a coach sit a player for 12 minutes in a role in the middle of a important game if you though highly of him? Answer my question or just STFU.
Oh I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't be arguing with a dude whoe declares himself to be the authority on Lin becuase he's supporting Lin hell of a lot longer than me. Are you serious? LOL...
I remember Lin say and I quote - "I'm not playing for anybody else. I play for God."
DeleteIf in McHale's eyes , Lin is dispensable , the more so that this coach is dispensable in God's eyes.
I believe that Jeremy Lin is a "man of purpose". He just didn't come out of nowhere for nothing. As he himself believed , there are a number of events that has come to take place in his life at an oportune time that made his coming out possible. So , if the coaches (or anybody else for that matter) do not conform to that "purpose" ,
it's just a matter of time , heads will roll. And I'm sure , it will not be Jeremy's.
@Kenoshi - Agree that they are not doing anything different from any other game with JLin's sub pattern. I am a lot happier with this sub pattern than earlier on in the season. At least JLin would have finished fourth in this one if it were a close game. Generally though, the sub-pattern shows a willingness to leave JLin out of the game for long periods. This willingness reflects a disappointing lack of respect for JLin's contribution.
DeleteI don't like Mchale substitution pattern. But I'm satisfied with both. With the win and the way that Lin played. I guess I was more frustrated with my fantasy points today lol. However, I don't think McHale sees Lin like we see him, that's true. But I don't think they see him as just another role indispensable player. At least not totally. So IDK right now I'm kinda in the middle. I just really WISH that Mchale will fix that substitution patter. Give Harden and Parsons a break too.
DeleteBut I guess is step by step. Earlier in the season Lin was just a stand up shooter. Now he is mostly controlling the offense. Getting PnR, more aggressive, taking his long 2s shots. So I take it little by little.
But! I do believe that in a playoff scenario we will see very little of Douglas or Beverly.
@kenoshi is speaking reasonably.
Deletewhy do you sit your starter? how about if he's rolled his ankle twice in practice in the past few weeks. he was limping at the end of the game. got nailed in the head and took a shot to the rib cage during the game. why leave him out there?
Solidz75 you are a fucking idiot. Beverley was doing well defending and forcing TOs, he was hot.
DeleteWhat fking dumb ass coach would take him off the court at that time? Tell me, with your years of coaching NBA games?
As a coach, if I had lost ALL of my previous engagements against a team this season that just seems to play better in 4th while my team RANNED OUT OF GAS EVERY TIME I'd make sure my closer(s) would be FRESH, ESP MY PG. I probably would have brought him in at 8 minute mark, but 6min mark was fine, its great using Beverley to waste their starter's energy.
Beverley was doing a great job harassing Lillard. He can't defend him over a PnR, but his on ball was enough distraction to slow their offense, because up until then they were trading shots with Rockets.
You would reward that by benching him?
They quit at the 3 min mark. Sure, let's lower Lin's status to a garbage player and let him play the last 3 minutes, so he gets NO RESPECT from EVERYONE. That's because we're Lin fans!
@Gene thank you. I for one am worried about his health as well. Maybe I forgot to mention it, but he looks a bit banged up, he has been limping a lot for the past 2-3 games.
DeleteBut you know what, we should play him for 40mins a day. Sigh I don't get some fans sometimes.
@Gene, we're not talking about this game or the past couple weeks, we're talking about a theme that's occured throughout the season.
DeleteI'm not really sure why people are upset with what solids75 has to say, he's not wrong. Unless you think that Lin is an average role role player, then of course you'd disagree with him. To be fair, since the 1/25 game against NO, Lin's been getting a little more time to play crucial parts of the game with Parsons/Harden.
Solids75 makes completely sense. I agreed with everything he said. Well said!
DeleteKenoshi, if you think that it would have been unfair to bench Beverly because he was playing well, then you need to watch more NBA basketball games.
DeletePlus, you can't complain about Beverly getting "benched," because he's a sub, not a starter. As a sub, generally, you play a limited amount of minutes, no matter how well you are playing, because your role primarily is to play and give the starter rest before he comes back in.
Watch how McHell subs for Harden. Harden's sub, even if playing very well, will come out when Harden is scheduled to come back in.
@k.smith i may not agree with everything, but i think solids75 points are well-taken and very well-articulated. unlike many of the people here, he understands there there is no conspiracy against jlin. but the coaching perception of jlin's ceiling is probably not what we as fans think it is.
Deletejlin has overcome misperceptions his whole career and i have no doubt in his resolve. look at this season...there is no doubt he's gotten better and better as the season has progressed. look at how confident and natural he's been in pulling up for jumpers the last several games (including this one). he's been more aggressive in taking it to the hoop, and pickier in his spots when he attacks. his turnovers have improved. there is no doubt the progression is in a positive direction. as his game improves, i think you'll see him get more and more minutes.
Kenosha; hey look at me I've been supporting Lin longer than all of u so shit da fuck up. I love beverley .. He is just a bundle of ennergy and so u know I've been supporting Lin so I'm soooo cool. Lol
Delete@roberlin it's different because lin is not in harden's class...yet. we as fans think jlin has a ton of upside, and one day we hope he'll get there. you can question how mchale is running things, but you have to understand he's doing what he thinks will give him the best chance to win, even if you don't agree with him. i think that's what solids75 has articulated very well in his original post.
Deletelook at what mchale did to TD. TD has been playing very solid this year, highest 3 point percentage on the team, hitting clutch shots, high energy/aggressive, plays pestering defense...yet, for no reason at all, he gets benched for like three consecutive games for beverley. i don't think mchale has it in for TD or jlin or ppat or whoever...he's doing what he thinks is best for the team, even though we don't agree with him.
calling him things like mcfail, mchell, and a racist is just weak. i guarantee jlin himself would frown upon stuff like that.
why do u argue with Kenoshi. Hr has been supporting Lin so long. He is sooo cool. I love how he points that out. That is one of dumb fuck things I've ever read. Kenoshi u r just so smart. You are the best Lin supporter I've come across
Delete*sigh, so many lames here. Who the hell says they want Lin to play 40min/game? Please, give me the names of the members who've said this.
DeletePosted by Roberlin:
Plus, you can't complain about Beverly getting "benched," because he's a sub, not a starter. As a sub, generally, you play a limited amount of minutes, no matter how well you are playing, because your role primarily is to play and give the starter rest before he comes back in.
Duh? This is pretty obvious. It's sad you even had to explain this.
Posted by Gene:
but the coaching perception of jlin's ceiling is probably not what we as fans think it is.
Obviously. That's pretty much what solids75 is saying.
Robertlin, then you need to go watch OKC last season when Harden started only 2 games yet racked up 31mpg.
DeleteNo you are wrong, his sub doesn't necessarily come out, McHale just subs someone else out (unfortunately, Lin at times) and Harden plays along side his sub.
posted by kenoshi:
DeleteRobertlin, then you need to go watch OKC last season when Harden started only 2 games yet racked up 31mpg.
You're comparing Harden's transition in OKC from back up to starter (in those 2 games) to Beverly's situation? That makes no sense. They're not even comparable.
Of course it makes sense, heck don't even compare 2012, 2011 he was averaging 26mpg, he wasn't exactly transitioning to a starter yet.
DeleteSomeone had to suffer for it.
Maybe i'm not reading you correctly but you're comparing harden's bench minutes in OKC to someone like Beverly's? On any team not named OKC, Harden would have been starting, that's why he played so many minutes as a back up in OKC. That's not the case for Beverly though. He's not as talented as Harden, wasn't drafted 3rd and should be used as a spark guy to relieve the starter/give him a rest before he goes back in the game.
DeleteThe comments you make about Lin being viewed as a serviceable PG or a poor defender is head scratching? As a coach, I know that to make any player play up to their potential, I need to make them believe in themselves first. It's been proven by psychologists that teachers with preconceived bias or expectations from certain students will pretty much guarentee those results. Lin has proven in highschool, college, NY and 3 times this year that he can and could contribute a lot more than what he is allowed to do. Yet these coaches refuse to use the most basic psycological tool in coaching and that is to help the players to believe in themselves. I read a sports psycology book that gave an example of a college baskeball player who was a 50% shooter. This player was having a terrible night, going 3/20 but when the team had a chance to win the game with a last minute shot, he wanted to take it. He made it, just as harden did on occasions this year. The paycologist asked him after the game how he could be so confident about making that shot when he was so cold roughout the game. The player replied that since he was a 50% shooter, he knew that he was due to make it, that the odds were in his favor. The paycologist asked him, what if you were shooting 20/3 would you still ask for the shot at the ned of the game? The player replied, when I'm shooting like that, I'm just hot, so I expect to make everything. Good shooters use this type of delusional self belief to reenforce their own self confidence. Good coaches therefore must also enable their players to believe in themselves. They create clear defined roles that fit that players strengths and limit their Oppertunities to show their weaknesses. Harden is a great player, but why not use Lin whenever Harden is off the floor? When you have overlapping talents, why not use them in a way that can maximize them both? Michale and Sampson continue to show very little understanding of what makes athletes great and how fragile their confidense can be. A good coach can steer a player in such a way that gets the best out of them. Your augument that they simply see Lin as a serviceable PG is less of an excuse, but Rather an indictment of how poorly they coach.
DeleteLol, Beverly being compared to Harden! That's just too much. What's sad is, lots of people think Beverly is either = or greater than Lin. Same with TD.
DeleteI was on some Rocket forum where someone posted a thread suggesting Beverly should start over Lin, and all the responses were basically in agreement.
Is Kenoshi actually comparing Beverly to harden?! And he thinks we are over reaching? I'm sorry I recently joined this site cause I couldn't stand the morons at clutch, but didn't know you guys had a resident moron here. I still can't get over the fact that he said he is a better supporter of Lin because he has been following him for a long time. Who da fuck says things like that?
DeleteSolid75, I cannot agree with your assessment that James Harden is the best player on the Rockets.
DeleteI'll go with the guy who anchors the defense and sets everybody up and who the team cannot win without: Jeremy Lin.
Khuang trust me. I'd love for Jeremy to be the best player. The reality is no matter what, Jeremy has not been able to reach his potential this season at least not yet. Also even Jeremy himself said harden is the best player on this team .. And with that mindset he has no problem deferring to him like he did with Melo last year. However, at this point in time, u r in the minority to believe that Jeremy is the better player than harden.
DeleteAnd guys, stop fighting.
DeleteI respect you all too much. I can sympathize with both sides here.
Also, let's not be corrupted by anti Lin hate on other boards. Don't let the racist haters get into your heads so that you guys start fighting each other. This site is a HAVEN where we are all actually united in supporting Lin's cause.
Bob, excellent point. This is why d'antoni was do instrumental in unleashing Linsanity. Whether out of desperation or not, he came to believe in Lin and wouldn't dare take him off the floor. True he ran him into the ground, but by doing so, he was able to boost lin's confidence to new heights. What we are seeing is complete opposite now. We have a coaching staff who repeatedly reveals their lack of trust in Lin. While I don't expect them to give the entire team to Lin, at least treat him like the " foundational piece" u brought him to be. It seems like whenever they have the opportunity Not to play Lin, eg TD getting some steals, threes, etc.. They will leave Lin on the bench . Soooo frustrating to see this.
Delete*shrug* KHuang
DeleteAll I said was are people actually crying about Lin not playing garbage time? And that's all that took for some rabid Lin fan who can't deal with "pressure" on Clutchfans to get on my case.
I swear Lin plays 26 minutes and produces great, but people gets butt hurt because they let Beverley play a little longer than usual that was doing good disrupting their offense albeit didn't produce points until garbage time. Not to mention they are against a team that always beat them in 4Q, heck last time they overcame what a 12-15pt deficit and beat Rox in the end? I'd keep Lin fresh too, albeit like I said I'd keep him on court slightly longer. But IMO if I was McHale I'd be concerned about his ankles, but none of the "Lin must play more minutes" side gives a crap, they just want to see him fill box scores.
But hey let Lin play 40 minutes and blow out his ankles, its what great fans do.
Nothing solidz said hasn't been said 1980198321312 times, Etane was right some people just like to keep on regurgitate old crap and bring NOTHING new to the discussion. No kidding his usage was low, like we didn't know? But its improving a whole lot because like it or not they recognize his importance.
But wow giving up 3 minutes of garbage time and its the end of the world.
Not even going to comment about absurdity of comparing Harden vs Beverley...I was using him as a quick example that it CAN happen, but whatever, go ahead take it out of context.
But hey, people won't get off my nuts because apparently they like my hairy balls. What can I say?
Sigh nevermind, I'll just stop here, don't really wanna argue anymore out of respect for KHuang :)
DeleteSolidz75 welcome to this site, we really are nice folks here, though some of us do get carried away sometimes, just ask willy about the last argument we had...And thanks to K.Smith calling me on my bullshit sometimes.
I'm not usually like this, for some reason I just felt really strongly about Lin having a good game and didn't see nothing wrong.
You too livrylife.
I don't like reading body language to make conclusions about a player's emotional state, but, when McHell took out the starters with 3 minutes left, Lin walked straight to the bench and sat down, while Harden (and the other starters?) were high-fiving it with the coaching staff and other players.
ReplyDeleteWas Lin the only starter that wasn't getting congrats from coaches along with Harden?
Because he was pissed that dumb and dumber were disrespecting him. They are oppressing him in a malice way. I am beginning to think that it was McHale that cut him last year and not Morey.
DeleteI would love to be a fly on the wall when Lin having a conversation with his family about dumb and dumber.
DeleteRoger Montgomery is one of Lin's agent, I will tell you one thing he is no Pollyanna. I am sure he is just as angry if not more than most of us.
Jeremy Lin is one honest man. He may say things differently by being diplomatic but his face and body can't lie. When he is happy, he is happy. Wide smile, doing signs, giving high five, and cheering teammates. When he isn't happy, you will not see anything
DeleteBecause of McHale's low IQ, I didn't think he was malice, but I was wrong. Usually malice or evil people tend to have very high IQ. I hate this bastard.
DeleteIts more like he is probably not happy about his own production, Lin is competitive, don't mistake that for humbleness. He is his own worse critic.
DeleteWhat? Not happy about his own production in this game? Uh, I think he was happy about it, what he was pissed about was his 3 minute playing time in the fourth quarter, being brought in cold after sitting out for almost an entire quarter.
Delete@kenoshi, you're right. The thing is he did produce but just wasn't given enough chance to produce just a little bit more. Out of those 26 minutes he played mostly with hot ball dominant Harden on the floor as well.
DeleteRikki no doubt.
DeleteI don't know why people aren't happy. He demonstrated AGAIN today that his shooting is improving, he is become a consistent producer!
I say he wasn't happy because of how things turned out. His production was great for 26 minutes but more likely he is a bit bummed of not doing more esp in light of Harden's production. Of anyone on the team he wants to feel worthy esp given the attention he gets, even though he IS worthy, and I'm sure he was looking forward to playing the last 3 minutes instead of it becoming garbage time.
Lin is a true competitor, even against his own teammates! He doesn't mind taking back seat when Harden is doing well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to put up all star numbers as well!
@kenoshi, Isn't that what I'm trying to say? Damn I must have left the important points in my head
DeleteLol sorry Rikki I can be slow sometimes :/
DeleteSometimes?! Kenoshi no disrespect, but your a self righteous fucking moron!
DeleteThis is JLIn fan site not the Houston Rockets fan site. I'm and I hope all of us are here on this board because of Jeremy Lin, our boy. Every game we watch, his performance and future development are of my utmost concern, not any others'. If I want to talk about the Rox, I'll go to other game threads. Not to fight with anybody, I hate Mchale even more after he pulled out Lin and not sent him back till the game was almost over. Boy, I love JLIN more after this game!
ReplyDeleteYes, exactly. More than anything else, I want Lin to be happy
DeleteAnother fking nazi troll. Yer no worse than all the LOHs telling Lin fans to shut up and get lost on clutchfans, so get off your high horse.
DeleteBy no worse I mean no better.
DeleteWell, honestly the only reason why I follow the Rockets is because of Lin. But, because of Lin I want the Rockets to do good. He will be here for minimum three years, so might as well back his team too. I think he would like that. And if Rockets succeed, more than likely Lin will succeed too. I'm a Lin's fan, and because of Lin I'm a Rockets "fan." The moment Lin goes to another team, I will follow that team and forget about the Rockets. Meanwhile, I care cause Lin can't play ball by himself. He needs his teammates, and this team for the next 3 years and who knows if even longer.
Deletejp2123,
DeleteTheir fans, coaching staff, and Morey is making it hard for me to root for them.
alcsd, you need to add the rocket announcers also for making it hard to root for them.
DeleteI understand alcsd. But I don't do it for them. I do it for Lin. Yes, sometimes... a lot of times I get frustrated. Lately just about the substitution pattern. But we need to win, I so want to see Lin playing in the playoffs in his first full season as a starter that I need to root for all of them. It doesn't mean I approve of every single decision the coaching staff makes. But, I want to see Lin succeed and for that we also need the Rockets to succeed. If the Rockets fail, Lin goes right down with them.
DeleteLOL.
DeleteI honestly don't think Rockets will make the playoffs.
Where is your faith in Lin and his team! 0_0 Na man, common lol They will make the playoffs and we will see Linsanity balling. So much that the finals will be Knicks vs Rockets and Lin will eat them alive. Then every single news outlet will have as a headline. "NYK made the worst mistake in any sport. Lin beats Knicks 4-0 in the finals!"
Deletejp2123,
DeleteI don't agree with your statement. If Harden is the franchise player, if they fail, then Harden's ass look bad, not Lin.
Good coaches see that Lin is being misused. One of them with a brain will ask for Lin next year because he will know how to use Lin better. And history will repeat itself and Rockets will look stupid for letting Lin go.
alcsd, nah, Lin will be the scapegoat, no matter what, if and when Houston fails, and they'll talk about how Harden and the Rockets could have done something if Lin didn't hold them back.
DeleteHarden is the Rocket's golden boy, and any flaws (turnovers) will be ignored or rationalized away.
@alcsd, seriously are you really that naive? They will spin it anyway they can and crucify Lin for not stepping up even though it is entirely not true.
DeleteNBA is a white controlled league with black dominant players association.
Funny stuff like troll name-calling appear everywhere when fans have different opinion. SMH.
DeleteRikki,
DeleteI only care about smart coaches in this league think. There are a few in this league that would love to have him as their floor general.
The media spin it because it will generate traffic which means more money for them. That is reality.
Right, you want only Lin to do well but fail to understand basketball is a team game. Yeah sure, Lin will make it to the playoffs all by himself.
DeleteYer a troll and a half.
If you love Lin, you will talk about his team. Because his success depends on them, and vice versa. You will analyze Lin's teams performance, just as well as reasons why he isn't because his teammates isn't producing.
If you have been following Lin, you would KNOW that his team sometimes is his worse enemy. You would know his assist numbers would be higher IF he wasn't limited by post players that can't finish.
You would know he struggled on this TEAM because he wasn't being played CORRECTLY, on this TEAM.
So if you love Lin, you will talk about his team. If you don't, you obviously don't care about his success, because is a symbiotic relationship.
Regardless of which team he plays on.
So yes, I say you are a troll. Troll on!
LOL, you just lost the last bit of my respect. I wouldn't even want to reply to all your accusation. Read all my previous posts before you use those nasty words. Shame that I thought all JLin fans are refined and cultured.
DeleteI'm here for Jeremy Lin actually. It's not about padding his stats as I don't think anyone else has mentioned this either but some of you assume that's all we care about. I care about his role on this team and how he's utilized.
DeleteNo shit we want the Rockets to do well because that's Jeremy's team.
P.S. -- you guys aren't trolls, glad you're here!
fire it up! no worry livyrlife! this is the type of typical threads we should see!
DeleteKsmith, I hear you. I actually hate this obsession about stats and numbers, because they often don't measure skills that are very important but are not easily quantified. Also, if you are familiar with players like Kobe Bryant and Carmelo Anthony, you would know that it's actually a BAD thing for the team if they put up big numbers, because the team often loses those games.
DeleteWhat's maddening about JLin's treatment is that they don't seem to appreciate or even realize that he has an ability to run an offense efficiently and smoothly, an ability that both TD and Beverly lack, and which is why they will be perennial back-ups.
Saw a clip of an interview with BIll Russell, largely regarded as one of the best players to ever play the game. BUT, if you look at his numbers, they don't really stand out. And, one thing he did really well, block shots, wasn't even a stat when he played. And the great thing about Russell is that he could care less about how many shots he blocked, or his numbers.
I can careless about your respect. I call it like it is, telling us his team's development isn't important when he depends on them just as they depend on him, is quite frankly stupid.
DeleteLin when used properly elevates the team and each individual's game just grows and flourishes. He MADE Patterson and Morris better, look at Patterson now.
When his team doesn't trust him, he gets no touches, no shots, no screens, nowhere. When his team has his back, he becomes more confident and his game improves by leaps and bounds.
So why not talk about his team when its integral to his success anywhere regardless which team its on?
likewise.
Deletemy posts don't warrant nasty words. they reflect on the users.
Omg is Kenoshi like the biggest troll on the Jeremy lin's fan site? He acts like he is the best supporter of Lin ( mind u he will literally let you know like he is a personal friend if his) and then bashes people who rightfully express their disdain for the coach who sees Lin in a different light than the lin fans do. Who da hell is the troll on this site . He needs to just go back to Clutch.. Wouldn't be surprised if he is just here to troll. What a moron!
DeleteStop fighting, everyone.
DeleteWe are all not just Lin fans, but fans of each other. Enough.
I find it justifiable for people to want Lin to play NBA minutes consistent with that of other starting point guards, and I also find it justifiable for McHale to not overplay Lin when he's already had a stellar night putting the game out of reach.
This is the NBA where everybody has to make sacrifices to get wins. That includes coaches, not just players.
@Solidz75, Kenoshi is actually really cool. I'm glad you're both here.
DeleteI mean idk. But would Linsanity had happened if Lin didn't win any of those games in NY? I doubt it. I'm just saying. I think as Lin fans we do him a disservice by not "caring" about the Rockets in general and just caring if Lin got this or that while omitting the obvious improvement in his game and his role in this team. For example, he now gives orders, Harden and him talk during the game about different things. I mean, all these things are important. Yes he only play 26 minutes, but Rockets won, Lin rested, and actually had a pretty efficient game that will push his stats up in ppg, fg% and 3pt %. And please don't think that because there is no game tomorrow that it means that players should be rested in games when needed. The toll of each game throughout a season beats on you. That's why I'm worried about Parsons and Harden. Their minutes per game need to come down a little bit. That's why everyone is saying that the blazers probably won't make the playoffs. Because they rely too much on their starters.
Delete@k smith, I haven't here long enough to know what this Kenoshi dude is like. But I'm wary of people who declare himself to be a better supporter of Lin in his post like he is a persona friend. And when they start using profanity cause they have no answer that is when I draw the line.
DeleteI came here to share my views with other Lin fans like me. It is cathartic to vent your frustration with those who feel similarly to u. I feel like Lin is being marginalized by McHale. Despite the win, it is bitter sweet.
The other depressing thing about this game were the Houston announcers. My god, they were going on and on about how great Damian Lillard is.
ReplyDeleteThen, when Lin made a nice runner late in the third quarter, one of the announcers finally said, hey, we've been going on about the greatness of Lillard, we've forgotten to mention that the team's own point guard was having a stellar game.
Clyde even said he thinks Lillard will become an elite point guard next season.
Without saying it explicitly, they were basically saying, wouldn't it be great to have Lillard as Houston's point guard?
I agree. Both ways. Lillard is a really good player. But Lin is too. They are both really good. I just hope Lin wins the all star challenge!
DeleteOk, bull. You're interpreting this in a very manufactured way. I've been paying very close attention to the commentators and what I've noticed is that for one thing: Clyde is REALLY hard on all the players. I found that both commentators were highly complimenting of Lin this game. And most certainly gave Lin his due.
DeleteLillard is a rookie and will probably be rookie of the year. It is pretty amazing how good he is for this being his first year: Nothing wrong with underscoring that point.
I even recall Drexler saying that if Lin can keep up this shooting "watch out" You're cherry picking what the commentators are saying.
No, I am not. Watch the game again, and see how often they talked about Lillard, and how often the talked about Lin. Yes, they complimented Lin when he made a nice play, then, it was onto gushing about Lillard and Harden.
DeleteBut, here's the real kicker - Lin OUTPLAYED Lillard today, and the rocket announcers acted like it was the reverse.
@bamboo forest is right. you guys are so blinded. worrell and drexler were giving lins props this game. they mentioned how he was controlling the tempo of the game. and in the fourth quarter they mentioned how he played as well as lillard even though lillard is getting all the hype this year.
Deletedude, @roberlin watch the fourth quarter again. worrell (who some view as the most anti-lin) stated that lin played as well as lillard even though lillard was getting all the hype this year!!
Delete@Robertlin: Here is your fatal mistake: You are assessing their conversation by taking score of how much they say positive about Lin vs. how much they say positive about Lillard. But, they, the commentators, are just, you know, commentating. They are not obsessed with "Gee, am I saying as many good things about Lin as everyone else?" Do you really expect that what commentators talk about is going to be even handed? It's not going to be even handed for any player. It's a flow. It just comes naturally. You're N.I.T. P.I.C.K.I.N.G. They were absolutely complimenting to Lin and giving him serious respect. Who cares if they were focused on Lillard for a good portion of the game.
DeleteAnd to Gene's point... they even said, during the game, that Lin played as well. And I remember Drexler saying "good point" after Worrell made this point. I think you're overreacting.
DeleteAlso, Lin's performance was 'quiet' in the sense that you almost didn't notice he was scoring all those points. He did it in a very even handed way. Whenever a player scores like this it isn't as obvious how good they have performed until you take a look at the stats.
DeleteBamboo Forest, you are right, people here are going too far and basically cherry picking everything. So anything the Rockets commentators praised Wade and Kobe (and it happened a lot), did it imply that they basically say "wouldn't it be great to have them as Houston's SG instead of Harden?".
DeleteI also like that while Lin plays to win games, his fans here want him to play for his own stats and the only thing they are concerned about is whether he gets good stats, not how he plays the game.
Gene, bamboo, cara, are you all the same person?
Deleteoh gosh, I hope the moderators don't find out that all this time I've been three people. Cara is my favorite because she is feisty ^^ I guess I have multiple personality disorder.
Deletethere was a poster recently asked a question: k.smith are you kara smith on one of Lin's Sundance film festival articles but then the comment was deleted when I went through the thread again...
Deletelol...now roberlin thinks we're all conspiring
Deleteno, we are not the same person. but i'll say bamboo forest, cara, and kenoshi are some of the handful of reasonable ones here haha. and btw...i think cara is a he
haha, is Cara a he? lol. Goes to show you that I have terrible sense of what's what on here : )
DeleteCan I join the club?
DeleteCan I be cara? :D
gene, nah, i don't think you're all conspiring, it's just that you guys pretty much just say the same BS over and over again, so I was wondering if you were all the same person.
DeleteAlso, with some of the arguments you guys make, it seems like you don't know very much about basketball or are new fans. It's hard to converse with someone who doesn't know the basic protocols of how the game is played and managed.
So, for example, if you don't realize that bringing a starter back in with just six minutes left in the fourth is not a normal substitution pattern, then, that person first needs to be educated about how substitutions generally are done in the NBA by competent NBA coaches.
in today's world, she can be he, he can be she, all you need to do is go under surgery!
Delete@lyd, ;>
Delete@roberlin oh yes...you know so much about basketball. i'm not a guru, but i've followed as a fan since the early 80s. FYI starters don't always finish games...a la manu ginobli, james harden of okc, sam cassell on the rox championship team, etc. etc.
Deletejlin will get there. people have doubted him his whole career. he doesn't need us to fight his battles for him, but to just root for him every step of the way.
I heard it recalled that Tony Parker early in his career sometimes got yanked in the 4th.
Deletebamboo, you should do some research and find out about the context and reasons why Parker got benched very early in his career, and then compare that to Lin's benchings.
Deletegene, FYI, you got it backwards. Manu Ginobili has NOT been a starter with the Spurs, but, would finish games in the fourth. That's because Manu is an awesome player, but for strategic reasons, his coach wanted him coming off the bench. Same thing with James Harden in OKC.
DeleteBut, Manu and Harden are not your typical subs. Most subs are subs because they aren't good enough to be a starter. Manu and Harden were subs (nominally) even though they were more than good enough to be starters.
@roberlin you were making it seem that it was unheard of for competent coaches to finish 4th quarters without their starters. i was just giving examples where there are instances where good teams have gone that direction.
Deletebtw, last five games:
"The last 5 games Lin is averaging 16.8 ppg, shooting 53% from the field and 50% from beyond the arc, 6.4 assist and 1.8 steals"
very nice. as lin fans, we can all be happy with that...he's gotten better and better as the season has come along
Gene, you have given examples that are not the norm, and yes, competent coaches sometimes finish games without their starters. But, usually I can understand their decisions. With McHell, however, his substitution patterns with Lin are arbitrary, inconsistent, and sometimes bizarre.
DeleteIn the meantime , Bulls are up against Utah. 88-85, .27 secs. remaining.
ReplyDeleteLet's go Bulls. hahaha
Bulls just won! The Rox is only 0.5 game behind Jazz and 2 games ahead of Blazers! YAY!
DeleteWoot! woot! :>
DeleteGREAT NEWS!
Deletew00t!!
Deleteman, west playoff picture is crowded!
if the rockets were in the east, it'd be so much easier.
Ah nice :D Yay Bulls!
DeleteWell, it couldn't get better and it did! Let's go Lin & Rockets. As long as we don't face OKC or Denver in the first round of playoff we can maybe pass to 2nd round.
DeleteWatched half the game on my phone in real-time and then the other half on my computer well after the game has finished. I think someone summed it up best that the coaches think of Lin more as a Patterson with their substitution pattern than a dynamic playmaker who makes a difference. They were after all the same people who cut him. Lin must know that they think of him the same way as they did last year - no better or worse. If Lin ever becomes the primary for some reason on any team, watch out. His shooting is great now and he will be a more legit scorer. I just wish the coaches would see how great he is because they could be a team that pushes > .667 winning percentage. I just wish there was another team that would have signed him that had not cut him previously.
ReplyDeleteMy issue is that Lin is not even getting those high 38 min per game now.
I guess one consolation to watching a game that is archived is that you can skip to when Lin plays.
Watching games on archive has the advantage of allowing me to skip the in between quarters breaks, timeouts, and free throws!
DeleteStu, I was the one that said the coaches think of Lin on the level of Patterson. And what the Lin haters don't seem to get is that Lin fans that get angry at the coaches' substitution patterns are angry not just for Lin, but their under-utilization of Lin is undermining the team.
DeleteIt comes down to perception. We regard Lin much more highly than McHale. If your perception of a player is not high to begin with, u simply will not see all the good things that Lin brings to the game.
DeleteMcHale clearly has the blinders on when it comes to Lin. Tonight was a clear example.
For some reason they do not like to play Lin against Lillard...its this eye test which I think is subconscious racism/disrespect whatever you want to call it.
DeleteI am trying to be positive. Lin's jumper is looking very very good. I am shocked actually how quickly it has come back (3pt) and his mid-range 2 is great.
I would love to see Lin be the primary but he's doing very well. He could easily average 18+/10 on any other team without a ball-dominant SG like Harden/Kobe.
Lin just had one of his more efficient games all season.
That's the thing. In the first quarter when Lin sat, Lillard went off on Beverley. So I don't get this decision, unless McHale has the blinders on and just can't see what we see. As bad as it is, I understand if McHale was sitting Lin because he was messing up. I just don't get it when Lin stays on the bench for 12 minutes, during important stretches of game, even when he had been playing well. That is what is incredibly maddening for me to see this season.
DeleteSolidz, unfortunately, most people seem to share McHale's (mis)perceptions of Lin's abilities.
DeleteWhat was funny in a depressing way was reading a Rocket game thread where someone asked, "How come the offense plays like crap when Lin isn't in?" That person could see the difference in play with and without Lin, but, yet could not understand why he could not understand or fathom that the difference is Lin and his ability to run an offense.
Ok, I have a theory for the insanity with Lin in Houston. It goes to what the announcers said tonight about how Harden was going to try for a triple-double tonight. To do that, he'd need 10 assists. To get 10 assists, you need to basically be the primary ballhandler, and have the coach let you be the primary ballhandler.
DeleteThey did, and Harden had an incredible game shooting and distributing. Basically, Harden played the role of SG and PG and did so very well tonight. In fact, Harden was so good, they could sit their primary point guard for a whole quarter, and the offense still was running efficiently under Harden.
If Harden can score and dish out 8-10 assists a game, you've basically made Lin completely dispensable. You could then have an offense run through Harden, try to trade Lin for a power-forward, and replace Lin with TD/Beverly for this season and then during the off-season, get a point guard who is a more polished shooter and/or a defensive specialist (ala Tony Allen).
I think Morey and McHale believe that the team would be better with a good power forward and Harden running the offense as shooting point guard, than with Lin as PG and Patterson as their PF.
In this scenario, say goodbye to Houston, Jeremy Lin.
When's the trading deadline?
Well, Linsanity did nothing to change people's view about Lin it seems.
DeleteFor me all I want to see is Lin being treated like a starting pg, like a Rubio, Lillard, Nash. That's it. Lets see if Lin will prove us right or wrong. If he ends up sucking, then I will be the first to admit Lin sucks. But after what he did last year, and not having that same opportunity this year.. And just wondering what could have been.. This is the most frustrating about this season. Just show some trust in your player McHale. Find out what u have in Lin.
I wouldn't trust Morey either. I think les and only les was the one responsible for getting Lin. I don't think the rockets will trade for anyone, but I'm sure thy will go after cp3 this off season.
DeleteIn the same light, they would get rid of ASik in a blink of an eye, if they can get d12. Only harden is untouchable.
@Roberlin,
DeleteWhat you said can be one probable scenario which explains for the rationale behind the coaches' experimental rotations that left Lin on the bench far too long. While it's remotely possible(some posters said Lin is relatively cheap compared to other PGs of his caliber, coupled with his marking appeal) that Lin will be traded, i'm hoping Lin will land on a team that truly appreciates his potential and allows him to play PG starter mins and run the offense.
welcome aboard Solidz75. good to see cool new poster like you. :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy predirction is the rockets will finsh 6th or 7th. I just don't want them to play OKC in the 1st round of play offs. If Jlin shines in the play offs the rest of the season doesn't matter. houson in not a high market team, but the playoffs bring big attention.
ReplyDeleteAgree! Let's hope that the Rox make it to at least the 2nd round of Playoffs so that Lin gains invaluable playoffs experience. Is it too much to ask, IDK, but I'm just hopeful.
Delete*to ask for
Delete"How am I supposed to play if everyone is looking at me expecting me to make a miraculous play every time I touch the basketball" - JEREMY
ReplyDeleteI say, just relax and play, have fun, continue improving and work hard even if any of your team mates or coaches may not treat you right.
That is really all we can hope for. He has clearly been improving the last 5 or 6 games. Whether Mchale acknowledges it or not, all we can hope for is he doesn't get discouraged and continues to improve. if this is this frustrating for us, imagine how annoyed he must be. i hope for the day he proves all these doubters wrong... yet again.
DeleteHeh heh.
DeleteI'd tell Lin "Suck it up, buddy. You make highlight reel superstar plays all game long".
Lin would be embarrassed if he knew how much I expected him to make those highlight reel plays every game.
More like, "How am I supposed to play if everyone is looking at me expecting me to make a miraculous play when I don't have enough minutes and full control on offense"
DeleteBut hey its not like we as fans can do anything much about it either. For me personally I can only pray and hope everyday
@Rikki , Amen.
DeleteJust like JLin , I know who the real coach is. If that coach in Houston does not do it the way the real coach wants it to be done , then he better know , his days are numbered.
SOME PICS - JLIN VS BLAZERS
ReplyDeletePICS
DeleteTHIS and THIS need captions
Delete@Rikki~ The last one obviously involves as*es getting kicked. :P
Delete---
HMM..? [Thinking about food again during interview...]
ReplyDeleteHas two true because when Lin plays 36 min, in the next game he is dead.
The next 3 games the Rockets are away from home
Also when Lin and Harden plays together, the two stay hardly hot then they leave only Harden on the court and Lin on the bench
Initially Lin wanted Rockets win your games but now he also wants to play
Lin was very sad today
He did not sit near to the coaches
If Harden continues hot on the court without Lin, will be the end for Lin in Houston
Be happy, Ulysses Cazuquel.
DeleteLin finally overcame the Portland nemesis in a blowout victory.
There's nothing for you to fear about Lin being knocked off Houston. If Lin is dumped by Houston, he'll simply continue dominating on another team. Plus Lin will come back to haunt Houston.
Lin is the great point guard of the young generation. Nobody is as good as him.
teh, I don't mind he is traded ASAP to whatever team who will respect him as a starting pg. as some of the LOHs mentioned that "its lucky his contract is only 3 years". it holds true for me as well as a Lin Fan.
DeleteAs much as I hate the Mchail treatment towards Lin, I am glad that he can take this opportunity to rest and heal up his body (the ankle?) and not being hurt all season long and then see what happen in the off-season.
Good point, KHuang. Lin 'seems to do well against his former teams'.
DeleteYES Khuang! That's the SPIRIT! :>
DeleteUlysses Lin is a lot stronger than that, have faith in him?
DeleteHarden can't win games by himself. He knows full well Lin isn't a roleplayer. As their dynamics get better I think you'll see them sharing the reins more. Some of that is already starting to surface, and Lin is playing PG heck of a lot more.
I didn't really see him regress in his role of late either.
Now that may not be what FO wants, but I think its how it'll play out.
I think there was a bit of deferring to Harden today, but Harden was shooting lights out, nothing wrong with that.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJLIN HIGHLIGHTS vs POR - 2/8/13
Delete[Geraldd Lin]
Yes, thanks via!
DeleteI'M WATCHING YOU
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard being a trailblazer, and that is what Lin is to the NBA. These pioneers are the ones that bear the heavy burden of adversity to make the way easier for others. Although the substitutions and treatment of Lin have been upsetting since I'm a Lin supporter first, I guess I console myself knowing that this is simply part of what it means to be the first in something, and to fight against "social norms." Not being an expert about the NBA, I don't know what other coach would treat Lin like this.
ReplyDeleteI realize it's pointless to think about what could have been, but it seems to me that Mike Woodson would not have played Lin this way (only based on what I saw last year and what I'm seeing this year with how Woodson runs the Knicks), and that if Lin were benched, there would actually be a legit reason. Believing this, I hate Houston for the "poison pill" contract. Lin isn't greedy. I could withstand Lin being paid less than what he may be worth in the short term, and be supported and develop and maximize his potential than this. He would have also been portrayed better in the media (not that this necessarily matters), but it certainly riles people when the media attributes Lin with things he did not say or simply is not.
I also think Houston makes Lin's situation worse than it would have been in NY to the extent that most of the Knicks' fans supported Lin. It seems Lin simply doesn't have that kind of support from the Rockets' fans for whatever reason which is completely inexplicable to me. Maybe NY was too far away. This just breaks my heart. I'm holding out for the best.
But on the flipside of the coin, you could say Rockets are the only ones that believed in Lin. Regardless if how much McHale ate crow, we know for a fact that Morey publically regretted letting Lin go, and Les is probably playing a huge factor.
DeleteNo one else offered to counter, and NYK would have gotten away with murder.
Let me put it this way: A much lesser PG did really well this year with the Knicks. IF Lin had stayed he'd outshine Carmelo in a heartbeat. If you don't think there'll be unexplained benchings or melotanking/melodrama, think again.
I thought Lin was not playing much because he was pretty banged up by the hard fouls. He was limping in the second half.
ReplyDelete