Here are the answers (first 50 starts, per 36 minute stats) along with their won-loss record:
JLin 28-22 16.07 pts 7.41 asts .434 fg%
Westbrook 17-33 17.65 pts 5.55 asts .423 fg%
CP3 26-24 16.37 pts 7.79 asts .433 fg%
DRose 22-28 16.36 pts 6.19 asts .469 fg%
JKidd 20-30 9.95 pts 7.65 asts .388 fg%
Nash 19-31 9.69 pts 6.32 asts .372 fg%
These stats confirm what I see with my eyes. JLin has elite talent. He can be one of the best.
I'm tired of hearing JLin needs to be more aggressive. He just needs Harden to pass him the ball more often and his other teammates too, especially on the break.
Tyreke Evans, Starbury, Terrell Brandon, kenny anderson, Stevie franchise. Run their first 50 starts per36 #s. All of them had similar or better pts-rbs-assists than the group you cherry-picked. Per 36 min stats on your first 50 starts as a PG is not a strong indicator of whether a player becomes "one of the best" or not. In fact, this very exercise demonstrates that. Kidd and Nash are the two best players here and had the two worst first 50 starts. If this was all that mattered Tyreke Evans would be the next MJ.ReplyDelete
Also, there's more to playing PG than the boxscore stats. It's true defense is hard to quantify but at least make an effort instead of just straight up pretending like 50% of the game doesn't exist. (On/off court #s, pts allowed per 100 poss, SOMETHING).
But whatever, I guess I'm just a "hater" instead of a "True believer".
The players you mentioned in the 1st sentence were/are still great talents. Yes they didn't progress from their great start in their career, didn't transform the natural talent/potential into long, prolonged careers, for various reasons. But there is hope that those problems that plagued those players (like injury, bad work ethic, bad coaching) would not happen to Lin. If anything, it is encouraging to see Lin stack up to some of the best in terms of talent/potential, as the stats of site owner and your opening statement indicated. Now it just comes to the part (perhaps the hardest part, mind you) that transform that talent/potential into a long, productive career.Delete
In short even the talent is there. The potential is there. It still takes work ethic, mental, a bit luck to be injury free and the right environment to "put it all together". Evans/Marbury/Francis etc did not and Paul/Nash/Kidd did. Here is hoping Lin is the latter rather the former.Delete
At 23, Tracy McGrady was on his way to having a career that could rival that of Kobe Bryant. He didn't "put it all together" though but it's certainly not due to a lack of talent.
If you are a "true believer" that Lin lacks the talent to become at least an All Star player, yes you are a hater!
What Daniel, do you actually believe that Lin "straight up pretends that 50% of the game (defense) doesn't exist?"Delete
How do you expect us NOT to characterize you as a "hater" when you post insane lying garbage like that about Lin and his EXCELLENT defensive efforts???
I think most people understand stats for what it is, as a probability rather than a cause that leads to an effect. For JL to have good stats even when the 1st 25 games of this season for has been an up and down affair for him, for me anyways means he has a higher probability of being good than being bad as a player over time. I mean look at it in reverse... how many players have been bad their first 50 starts then have come on to become Hall of Famers in basketball? Obviously I don't know enough about basketball to know so maybe someone else can shed light on this?Delete
Another thing to consider is that JL hasn't had the benefit of 2 straight training camps and he is still putting up these numbers is impressive to me. Last season his training camp was the one or two games he had in D-league before Linsanity... and the plays the Rockets put in this season was scrapped for awhile when they got Harden.
It is my opinion that the two things that's really weighing down Jeremy's numbers are the following: his spot up 3 and keep improving his individual D (on top of his already excellent defense, i.e. steals, blocks, deflections all leading to breakaway dunks, layups, or 3's.)
@Daniel You right on! Whatever! What ever stats whatever things about jlin you just like whatever ! That's nothing compare to some whatever! Who knows who you are!Delete
@KHuang - I wasn't saying JLin's defense is nonexistant. Read what I wrote. I said the AUTHOR of this POST ignored defense entirely in the stats he chose for this article. Nothing to do with jeremy's actual D abilityDelete
Even if you think Jlin's defense is great he still should've thrown in some defensive metrics to compare Jlin's D to other PG's D. That's what I was saying.
OK, that's cool Daniel.Delete
My personal take is that one's ability on defense shows up in the win loss record of a team.
Given the weak teams Lin has played with, I'd say that Lin's done as much as can be done for a NBA novice starter.
got one question Daniel - if you are a "hater" then WHY THE FUDGE ARE YOU HERE?!?!?! can you give us your stats of being a "hater"?Delete
Daniel: of all the players mentioned in the blog and in your comment, only one is/was considered an excellent defender: Jason Kidd. The others are average to good defensive players who are/were best known for their skills on the offensive side of the ball. So I don't know why you bring up the need to analyze defensive stats which, as you point out, are hard to quantify anyway.Delete
JLinfan#1, I appreciate your take. But one thing you have ignored is that Lin is significantly older than the players you mentioned in his 1st 50 starts. So this comparison represents no future indication of if/how Lin will turn out later like those great players. Unless you believe Lin is a late bloomer. Also, having a great start in your career doesn't neccessarily guarantee a long great career. A lot of players can regress from their rookie season, example Tyreke Evans (although he is still a good player).ReplyDelete
Having said that, I am still hopeful Lin can have a career path in the mold of Steve Nash. That's why I am not worried too much about his current "struggle" or Harden owning the team over him at Houston as long as it allows him an environment to truely develop his weaknesses (namely shooting, D etc). I really believe Lin can truely "break out" even after this 1st contract of 3 years if he can fortuately meet the right environment/system, just like Nash. Sometimes besides talent and hard work, you also require a bit of luck to succeed in sports.
Maybe Tyreke Evans is a dud in terms of winning percentage, but I consider him a PLAYER.Delete
I like Tyreke Evans very much, though I feel that going to UK with Calipari and coming out too early stunted his game somewhat. Evans, like so many of those UK "graduates", has great skills but doesn't know how to apply them to get wins.
Tyreke Evans has played for that horrendous Sacramento franchise that is woefully mismanaged and poorly coached. He's experienced a revolving door of teammates and expectations that make it seems like he's a journeyman that doesn't have to change teams. Evans would benefit greatly from leaving Sacramento and playing for a veteran team that could instill some direction into his game, like New York that needs a dribble penetrating athlete in the backcourt.
That said, I value Lin over Evans because Lin has made the best out of every horrendous situation he was handed. Lin is a WINNER, and no stat truly can capture the full effect of that.
Let Evans play with a REAL coach, not Keith Smart.Delete
I always have faith in "knuckleheads" turning their act around if they get the right coaching atmosphere and franchise.
That Sacramento team is a wreck BECAUSE of Keith Smart's coaching. Just as we didn't judge Lin negatively because of Smart's racially based incompetence, I won't judge Evans negatively until I see him playing for a real coach with a real franchise.
@Daniel: You are right. Just because someone had equal or better stats in their first 50 starts compared to these future HOFers doesn't mean that he is certain to have the same overall career. But what is does show is that Lin certainly still has the potential to be an elite PG, just like Tyreke, Starbury, Francis, etc did after 50 starts. Many people already wrote Lin off after his slow start this year, saying he was a bust and last year was just a fluke. Those were premature conclusions, as the numbers for Westbrook, CP3, Rose, Kidd, Nash prove. The summary of this data is that Lin is on track and can be an elite PG>ReplyDelete
@Cara: I don't think age is as much of a factor as much experience. Guys like Westbrook, CP3, Rose, etc played 2 years against elite competition. And let's be frank, they went to college to focus on becoming professional basketball players. Meanwhile, Lin rarely played against elite competition during college, and he was actually at Harvard to study and graduate--basketball was secondary. So Lin's learning curve is much steeper than the other guys. My bottom line, don't compare Lin's age to other NBA players, instead compare his time against elite players.
He didn't get the meaning. What ever thing post, he just got no positive to said and I never see him cheer anything or what!Delete
real-dsb, you've been around here since the beginning so I'm shocked that you're saying that basketball was secondary for Lin! Basketball has always been his focus, he's said that himself many occasions...even when he shouldn't have (like when he was speaking to students or teachers!). He only went to Harvard because they gave him an academic (not sports) scholarship AND a position on the team (not a walk-on like other colleges offered). While growing up, the only reason he did well academically was because he wasn't allowed to play basketball until he had all his homework finished! Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.Delete
I was not "Hating" on Lin as everyone just assumes. Hell, I myself think he has Tony Parker - level potential. Tony Parker is a Finals MVP and multiple All-Star.Delete
What I had an issue with was the really prehistoric "stats" the author of this post tried to use to show Jeremy as "elite" or "one of the best". I said he didn't include any defensive stats AT ALL in this discussion even though defense is 50% of the game. That's a glaring omission on the part of the author (Nothing to do w/Jeremy's actual Defensive ability).
I also said that drawing the stats he did use, per36 for first 50 starts, is incredibly arbitrary and I gave out those other players as examples of guys who don't fit the "narrative" this author is trying to construct for Jeremy. He basically cherry picked a fairly useless basic stat and applied it over a very random pool of players and tried to make it seem as DEFINITE proof Jeremy will become one thing or another.
Jeremy will be a fine player in this league. The problem is that his fanbase has delusional notions of how good he is already, how good he can become, and use absolutely terrible justifications to "prove" these points.
Using per36 Pts/rbs/Ast over the first 50 starts is like trying to cross the country on horseback in this day and age. Like yea, it's a way to do things, but its incredibly primitive.
Ok. We are delusional. Congrats to you for being the only conscious one here.Delete
clearly you are not a believer. Because you just called the believers who believe how good jlin can become delusional.Delete
the only stats im concern about is the big Win. Whoever gave me enough excitement while watching the game will be my favorite player. Im not exactly the type that go for too much flare though. I really dont want to compare Jlin to the HOF so early in his career because it irks most basketball fans. Same feeling i get when people compare MJ to Kobe. In my book nobody touches his Airness. Jeremy's game will prove itself over time. As every basketball fans say balls don't lie. many people are saying Jlin is average at best. but he was ranked way below average a year ago by basketball experts. So its interesting that just after 50 game start even the most conservative fans believe Jlin belong in the NBA and a starter at that. I'm happy with that for now. One season at a time.Delete
Daniel, I wasn't just cherry picking stats. I have them but didn't have time to post all. JLin leads in blocks and is right there on steals. So if you're talking defense, his defensive stats are better than all of them. I'll post them all later. The per 36 minute stat is not a prehistoric stat but evens it out if one guy is playing 36 minutes and another 33. If you don't think JLin is an elite talent thats fine. I do and I show stats that back it up.Delete
I'm not too worried about how Lin stacks up against those potential all time greats yet. At this point I am going to be comparing him to his peers and other people at his payscale. It's far more reasonable.ReplyDelete
As Lin said, and I have quoted again and again, people keep expecting him to be a 0 or a 100, when he is really something in between.
"At this point I am going to be comparing him to his peers and other people at his payscale. It's far more reasonable."Delete
Good point. Here's a list of PG salaries near Lin:
Monta $11m (38.7 fg%, 20.0 3pt%)
Rondo $11m (25.0 3pt%, 63.5 ft%)
Calderon $11m (10.5 pts, 7.4 ast)
Nash $9m (4.5 pts, 4.0 ast, 33.3 fg%, 20.0 3pt%)
Nelson $9m (12.2 pts, 6.5 ast, 39.3 fg%, 27.4 3pt%)
Mo Will $8.5m (13.3 pts, 6.8 ast)
Stuckey $8.5m (11.8 pts, 4.2 ast, 37.9 fg%, 24.6 3pt%)
Harris $8.5m (7.7 pts, 2.5 ast, 60.6 ft%)
Lin $8.4m (11.6 pts, 6.0 ast, 41.9 fg%, 30.4 3pt%, 80.6 ft%)
Hill $8m (15.2 pts, 5.3 ast)
Conley $7.5m (13.9 pts, 6.1 ast)
Dragic $7.5m (15.0 pts, 6.6 ast)
Udrih $7.4m (8.3 pts, 3.3 ast, 28.6 3pt%)
As "bad" of a start that Lin's had, he compares pretty favorably to other PGs within $7-11M salary. You can always look at Ty Lawson and his $12M/yr contract and feel better.
The thing that always impresses me about Lin more than other players is that Lin is capable of making the best play for his team to win.ReplyDelete
Regardless of stats, I love the way he pulls a team together. That alone is elite, and Lin is discovering that he has to score aggressively for that to happen.
I feel that Jeremy Lin matches up very well against any point guard of any era. Even if Lin faced Magic Johnson, Lin would put up a good fight especially if he had Linsanity level usage.
Lin is a point guard I'm totally comfortable with having on MY team, and race has nothing to do with it.
When Lin is using a lot of possessions, his teams are a joy to watch.Delete
heck, if I'm a team owner and is gunning for a big-named FA or coach, I'll probably ask my manager, "tell the guy that he'll be playing with/coaching good young men - Jeremy Lin can seriously help him with his game and James Harden can help him with scoring."Delete
Another great comparison by the website founder. Good, thoughtful insight into how JLin has been performing thus far. I also like the comparison from real-dsb. These comparisons show JLin is (at least) a starter who deserves to start and "finish" games. Bringing up players like Starburry, Kenny Anderson, Steve Francis, etc. only validate the points more- they were all starters! Although they did not have glorious careers due to injury or attitude…they still started…alot of games.ReplyDelete
So there we have it…JLin is at least a starter and finisher with the potential to be very, very good. He could even be a "true" all-star (I'm hoping). Also, JLin has the most and best fans…Top 5 Google searches of 2012? This great website? Sixth place All-Star votes currently, third among west guards?
You know what? Lin has the potential to be an All Star. The problem is the way that people look at him down for whatever reason. It's like he puts up 38 on spurs and they say "Well, it was because Harden wasn't playing." Outplays Felton and Kidd, and is like "Felton is 10 times better for the knicks. Lin is ok he is not good." The Linsanity era? A fluke, it was just overhyped, anyone can do that.ReplyDelete
And I'm here thinking, you got to be kidding me. I see the potential and I'm sure that he will. The question is, will people see him as such. For some reason, even if Lin puts stats to go to the All-Star game, I still see people saying that he is not that good and for no reason with evidence suggest that Lin will never be an all star just an ok player.
Negativers always will tend to pick out negative things to said no matter how bright side it is.Delete
I think america and the world is ready to accept an asian-superstar athlete. Jeremy is slowly winning over even his strongest critics like Stephen A Smith. He now needs to do it on a consistent basis. Jeremy reminds me of Nash in that he makes his whole team better. However, even Nash needed guys to pass to who could finish. I'm ok with Asik playing defense and rebounding, but Jeremy still needs an physical athletic finisher who also can play defense. Kris Humphries?Delete
No, America is NOWHERE NEAR READY to accept an Asian American male succeeding in show business.Delete
For the last 75 years, no Asian American male (not even Bruce Lee) has not been allowed to be a popular icon. For example, all of Bruce Lee's romantic scenes were heavily edited out of their American versions.
Jeremy Lin is doing everything in his power to succeed, and there are lots of American racist haters who are doing everything in their power to tarnish his name off the court.
This is America where the Asian American male will be forever considered inferior to all other races. Not even Lin can change that with his eventual Hall of Fame 1st ballot selection.
Well, I'm not saying it will happen overnight, but Jeremy is winning over the american media with his charm and integrity. If journalists keep writing positive articles about Jeremy, the American sentiment towards Asian American will slowly change. A year ago, people would have laughed at the idea of an asian-american starting point guard on a NBA team. Jeremy is only the beginning. His play will only inspire more asian-americans to follow in his footsteps. Who would have imagined 50 years ago that we would have a black president?Delete
Why are people so idiotic? Is it so hard for people to actually WATCH a few of Jlin's game's. The guy is so incredibly quick..is it that difficult to see that he BURNS people on fast-breaks and when he drives to the hoop he's unstoppable. His jumpers a bit streaky, but he is improving in that area. His court vision is EXCELLENT....he finds people routinely with no-look passes and makes teammates better. Why are people so retarted? I don't get it. Defensively, for a guard he blocks shots really well, plays passing lanes, and shuts down elite point guards that previously couldn't be shut down- ie Russell Westbrook.ReplyDelete
Arggghhh!!! I guess I can't say I'm surprised...the LOH's all voted for Bush in the White House I'm sure.
I agree. He is great athletically, can defend but people fail to see that or refuse to. His anticipation is awesome and he is FAST. More fast than quick and not a great leaper but he is more than athletic enough for the NBA game.Delete
"Game's"? "Retarted"? The irony is thick on this one.Delete
Is it too much to expect that a discussion on Jeremy Lin not include unwarranted potshots at conservatives/Fox News viewers/people who don't agree with you politically?
Agreed. I dislike how people undermine his natural athletic talent. Morey said he had the fastest acceleration that was ever recorded (that is THE most important quality). Lin has quick hands too in the way that Chris Paul has quick hands.Delete
I still find it annoying that people always say everyone else is a potential all-star (Parsons, Harden) and then they purposely leave Lin out of that conversation.
If I was a billionaire, I would buy an NBA team and only hire a coach that would play and use Lin like he's suppose to be used. In any case, Lin is legit - no question. To say he's not a superstar is a complete fallacy. He is a a star amongst stars. His name is more recognizable in the US than Lebron James. Holds a higher Q score determined by poles.
If any guy of any color other than Asian was able to fly up and down the court while putting up historically significant numbers, he's be rightfully hailed as the "next great thing".Delete
To contrast the dramatic racial difference between how American hates on Asian American males more than any other male of all other colors, watch video commentary of Magic Johnson's 1st game vs Lin's 1st game with real minutes against All Star Deron Williams and NJ.
Magic gets LIT UP by World B Free, a guy that Lin would have put the defensive clamps on last season. Still, the commentators ooh and aah over Magic's moves even though Magic did not have the overwhelming game impact that Lin did against the Nets.
Now fast forward nearly 30 years later to Linsanity. The commentators expect Lin to be DESTROYED and are shocked out of their seats whenever Lin gets a defensive stop or makes an incredible play. Those fool commentators of today cannot believe that an Asian guy can step onto the court and DOMINATE in a way that no player in recent NBA history ever has.
Racism didn't suddenly just die with Linsanity. REMEMBER THAT.
Lin is an elite talent. People of every race laugh in my face when I say that out loud. But there is no other way in hell an Asian American kid who is clean-cut the way he is would even make the league but for the fact he had elite potential. Granted, he didn't always show it, and he's gotten more athletic since those Summer League days via weight work & plyo, but there is no way in hell anyone would give him a chance if he didn't hold his own all along the way and actually often outplay people on his way up. Lin will always have to outplay people big time just to be treated as an equal. But at some point, he will be so far above par, people will take notice and say WTF? That's what happened with Linsanity. He was kicking butt in the summer, in practice, doing his thing, getting pissed inside he wasn't getting a shot, and nobody could see that he had it within him, except himself. If you have Lin take a lie detector test, I'm sure he would tell you he could easily average 20 and 10 if he had the ball all the time and complete autonomy.Delete
The USA just can't acknowledge it's that discriminatory. So it has to chop him down to rationalize why a player can come out of nowhere and make such a huge impact.
They will just be writing articles the next few years about how Lin worked super hard to magically improve his game. SAS will be talking about how Lin fixed his flaws or improved on them and say on the air that Lin owes him money for calling him out and forcing Lin to become better. But we here all know the deal...
I have nothing against conservatives considering that I am neither a Democrat nor Republican. I liked Ronald Reagan, but I do blame Bush for a lot of what we are seeing in the US now (let's see here...a war that we never should have paid for (hence our massive deficit), cutting long term capital gains which really only benefit the really rich (Romney paying an effective tax rate of 14 percent!!!), reacted WAY too slowly to the financial collapse because he was logging though it wasn't his fault ,etc, etc.Delete
The bigger issue is that it is SOOOOO obvious that Jeremy is an elite talent. Even in the horrible games he's played, you can see he has the ability to create his own shot and see the floor. He needs to become more consistent, but it's just so sickening to see the "experts" talk about him.
Stages an Asian basketball player goes through in US:ReplyDelete
1)Disregarded & ignored
2)Gets a chance to play and punks everyone
3)Gets challenged and continues to punk everyone
4)still punking while hearing people say "he's not that good" (hated on)
5)repeat steps 1-5 until you stop playing ball
If you are really that good, you wouldn't stop playing regardless. Just my 2 cents...I've seen a lot of Asian Americans who are quite terrible think they are Michael Jordan but that spreads across all races and types.Delete
I've seen and played with a few Asian American ballers as good as Lin or better in talent but most guys just aren't 6 foot 3. And if they are, they are not nearly as quick and fast. The ones I seen who are really great were unfortunately way too small to play pro except in 3rd tier Euro leagues or in China. They can dominate a rec league, but that's a far cry from the NBA.
5 foot 9 guys are a dime a dozen. Lin has a much weaker dribble than most great Asian American players I've seen. Quite honestly I don't think his dribble is very elite, but he has the speed and quickness, plus he is tough and has the "it" factor you need to make it. Biggest thing is Lin has the freaking size w/ athleticism, and he worked his body into shape.
I think that's why Lin exploded. The guy hardly ever lifted weights and was WEAK physically and still make the league in yr 1. Then he did some heavy weight work, squats, pullups and did stuff most top HS players do. That's why he made such a big jump out of no where. His pure talent carried him into the NBA, and when he worked out like a pro player should, all of a sudden he has premier athletic guard potential in the NBA. I seriously think if Lin did power cleans and heavy plyo work (which he probably does already), this guy would be even crazier.
Hate to break it to you guys, but you can work on your shot and dribble all you want, but you need to be big and strong to make it unless you have insane talent like Lin. But up to some point, it'll catch up to you depending on where your talent level lies. If you aren't 6 foot 5, doing weight work, plyo, and conditioning is really 3/4 of the game.
I've seen some people on here who don't understand and complained Lin worked out on heavy weights at Sparta, but that stuff is so critical to his development. Without that heavy weight work, Lin would not be what he is today. People are divided what it does to your joints and knees and back and longevity, but it's a necessary evil.
@jli pretty true. Some either fail to see it or refuse to admit it. But anyway, people who disagree will say it's an excuse. Yea. Who bothers. It's their opinion.Delete
@swingline: you made some good points.Delete
Lin has innate talent and the 'it' factor- skills that can't be taught. Much has been said about his basketball IQ but how he handled the pressure and hype on his homecoming game at MSG was something to behold. Most all of the nba stars we see today were scouted from hs and went to uni to be pro basketball players. Lin originally went to Harvard to earn an Econ degree. So now that he is steadily building up his body for pro sports I expect he will set the bar even higher on the court.
So you are elite kind of player, too? :)
oh no question that weights will help. This goes back to Lin's point where he has to prove himself over and over again.Delete
But to be fair everyone else was considered an elite talent and drafted within the first few picks of the 1st round which in essence means they played on bad teams and they were expected to turn the franchises around. CP3 did that, D Rose did that, Westbrook did that, Nash did that, Kidd did that. Will JLIN turn the rockets franchise around and lead them into successive years of deep playoff runs? Only time will tell.ReplyDelete
Jeremy Lin has played on bad teams all his life and TURNED THEM AROUND SINGLEHANDEDLY.Delete
When he entered the NBA with the Warriors, he did very well in the limited minutes he played. Lin also led Reno of the D League to a stellar record and sent a few guys to the NBA by elevating their games.
Last season, the Knicks were 8-15 before Lin stepped in and saved the season. He did it under makeshift conditions with all the injuries and mutinies.
This season, the Rockets are the youngest and cheapest team in the NBA. Lin has elevated everybody's game once again, transforming all the guys on the team and starting to really take command himself. The Rockets would be nearly winless if it weren't for Lin, even if Harden was there.
Lin has had the hardest incoming experience of any player I have ever seen enter the NBA. He's also played as well as anybody I've seen, particularly when Lin gets touches.
Lin really makes guys like Asik get better stats. Harden throws slick fast bounce passes on the move or fancy lobs which Asik can't even catch. And Harden can't adjust to throw less slick passes. Lin throws Asik high arch lobs or slow easy bounce passes since Asik is so limited. Lin is definitely helping Asik get stats. Only a few guys in this league like Kidd and Nash do that for their bigs and pass in a way to help out their teaamate. Other young talented guards like Westbrooks or Roses don't pass in such a manner at all.Delete
However, it remains to be seen if Lin's mates, coaches, and other teams and GM's around the league value these skills or see it as Lin not being a slick enough player who passes funny
You can't use what he did in the past to validate his current NBA standing. I was the PG on my 8th grade team that went undefeated and won by 30 or 40 a game. Obviously as age increases the level of competition increases. thats is why I am not an NBA PG. All of the players listed were great in high school and college, that's why they were all highly touted coming out of college and of course high school as well. JLIN did play well in his limited minutes with the Warriors but they were still a lottery team right? I am not knocking Jeremy by any means. I just want to see him validated and play at a level where he is respected. Race does not matter. If you put up JLIN numbers at whatever ethnicity or racial background, you can ball, and deserve some respect. Let JLIN learn and grow. By calling him an ALLSTAR and elite PG on here only adds to the pressure and further skews peoples outlook and expectations of him. Let the man play and let his game speak for himself. I never said he was a bad player, I just want him to continue to produce at a high level. No excuses.Delete
People love to say that Derrick Rose is a superior "point guard" to Jeremy Lin, a notion that I don't buy at all for basketball reasons.Delete
Look at Omer Asik. He played 3 years with Rose and never touched the ball on offense. Then Asik ends up with Lin and Lin transforms his game to where Asik is now one of the budding young center stars in the NBA.
Derrick Rose is a dynamic shooting guard in the mold of Allen Iverson, but just because he's listed as a "point guard" doesn't mean he does point guard things. For sure, Asik is getting point guarded by Lin way better than Rose did.
zmc, WHADDYA MEAN you "can't use Lin's past to validate his current standing???"Delete
We are comparing the stats of NBA players PASTS to Jeremy Lin's very recent past. That's what this thread is all about, and Lin is looking GREAT.
Amd if you think race doesn't matter, you are in the WRONG PLACE. Race is why Lin is still being marginalized despite having superb production.
Your problem is that you don't think Lin is capable of All Star production, and that's why you refute the stats that indicate that he is every bit capable of stardom. Maybe this season thus far Lin has not played his earlier games like an All Star due to his health and wacky coaching situation, but that doesn't mean that Lin has not just All Star but HALL OF FAME potential.
Other players get all sorts of excuses for bad play, like Pau Gasol is with LA and Deron Williams in NJ and Ricky Rubio in MN. If they can have excuses, an Asian like Lin can have excuses too.
Last time I checked Derrick Rose was a league MVP. I would say he is a superior and elite PG. Probably top 3 depending on who you ask. I would put him up there with CP3 and Westbrook. Asik didn't even start last year so your point doesn't really carry any weight. And you can't argue that Asik is better than Joakim Noah, who is probably the most underrated and overlooked Center in the game. Rose has changed the game so much. He gave birth to the "athletic PG" class and trend we have been seeing around the NBA. You are crazy if you think D Rose can't run the point. Allen Iverson was a small 2 guard, everyone knows that. Rose is a pure point, without a doubt, 21 points and 6.8 assists per game are not SG numbers. No SG puts up those assists. Kobe normally leads all SG in assists per year and he hovers around 5 or so. Rose had 7.7 a game the year he won MVP on top of his 25 points per game, 4.1 rebounds per game, while only missing 1 out of the 82 games played. On top of that he shot 45% field goals and 33% 3pt. Those are numbers Jeremy Lin has been close to, but hasn't touched. Rose doesn't turn the ball over quite like J Lin does and I believe J Lin is close to the upper elite PG's but not yet.Delete
zmcva001, you make a really interesting point of other players that were 1st round draft picks having the huge responsibility of turning around lottery teams. They either rise to the occasion, fail, or just bide their time until the team gets more talent or wait to get traded. John Wall, case in point.Delete
I think KHuang answers it well that Lin has made the best of his minutes for whichever team he's been on. What he didn't dial in on is that these draft picks, while not having any NBA experience were handed the keys to the team. Jeremy has only been handed keys a couple times in his brief career and when he was, he definitely made an impact. Those two times were with the Reno Bighorns as KHuang mentioned, and the D'Antoni Knicks.
For Lin, he hasn't had even one full season of playing time (with keys or no), so we have to use whatever data we have access to, because...what else do we have?
Race shouldn't matter, but it does unfortunately. It affects everything, the only thing that varies is by how much, be it 1% or 100%, and everything in between depending on the situation.
D Rose also had 23 double doubles and 1 triple double in 81 games. Better than 7 double doubles in the 25 games J Lin started. D Rose is a true elite PG!Delete
Exactly. It's his recent NBA stats not from high school or middle school something. Isn't Chicago bulls the first team D rose play? Maybe I m wrong. Just asking. So if it is, so chicago is a bad team he's playing?Delete
888, you are right. and Lin hasn't had that season or any season like that since he's been in the league. I'm SAYING he needs that season to prove his worth. He hasn't proven it over the course of a full season like Rose, CP3, Westbrook, Nash, and Kidd have. And all those PG's have been named to ALL-NBA squads.Delete
Talking about these players help turn the Franchises around, I like to see jlin got that chance too. The problem is, is he the guy that the franchises look up to turning around like those? Does he giving that chance? If lin giving that chance with a team that's building around him and see him as the go to guy and he fail it until then maybe we can all start to talk some shit about jlin.Delete
zmcva001, I agree with you in that regard. I'm just saying that for a fair comparison, he needs a full season with total or at least huge majority control of the team like players like Rose and CP3 do. As I've said before, I'm just glad he now has a guaranteed 3 years contract, so he has the time to get his game to where he needs to without worrying about making the roster, or learning yet another system because he's bouncing around 3 teams (4-5 actually, if you count the D-league teams he's been on) all in less than a year! I mean, how can he expected to build any rhythm that way? That's another thing drafted players usually don't have to deal with. They have stability along with the full confidence of their coaching staff.Delete
I know what Lin is capable of and am highly optimistic of what he can achieve. However, many other outside factors will affect just how long he'll take to get to that level. I'm looking at this year as a rebuilding year for the whole team (even the coaches). I hope that the Rockets will make it to the playoffs but won't be super bummed if they don't. I like to quote wifflewiffle:
"I am one of those people who think that moderating expectations is the best way to stay happy. :)"
It's ridiculous that people here are judging Lin as inadequate because Derrick Rose played 82 games and Lin has not even played a full season yet.Delete
Derrick Rose didn't have people limiting him because of hi race the way Lin did.
Beside, Derrick Rose did not have the HISTORIC start that Lin did. NOBODY did, and that counts for something.
And saying that Asik's achievements this year don't count is wrong too. Asik is having a career season with Lin, not Rose.
Lin is a work in progress - and a FANTASTIC work in progress. He's well on his way toward becoming one of the top, if not THE TOP, point guard in the NBA.
BRO, of course Asik is having a career year. He is actually playing LOL. Noah started so obviously Asik's numbers will increase as his minutes increase. It has nothing to do with who is PG is. By playing more obviously you'll have more touches and more opportunities to collect stats. C'mon man! And why are you bringing race into this? I never mentioned anything about race. He is Asian. And he is darn good at basketball. We have established that already. Lin had a historic start, yes. No one is taking that away from him. But D Rose is also the YOUNGEST MVP IN NBA HISTORY. So if you want to talk about historic starts, look no further than D Rose. He also won the MVP in this 3rd season. Will J Lin win the MVP this year? I DON'T THINK SO. Do not disrespect D Rose man. He is a solid and elite PG. J LIN, is on his way to being an elite PG.Delete
Asik is having a career year because he's playing with starter's minutes. In his time with the Bulls, he was playing with limited Minutes. So expectedly, his first year as a starter is far greater compared to the years he was a bench player who plays LIMITED minutes.
But before you jump on me, Lin also makes Asik better.Delete
Rose was a starter and Asik was a bench player so their playing time together is limited. So, don't expect Asik's numbers to be inflated by Rose.
After watching the "Google 2012 Year in Review" video, I noticedw Jeremy Lin was included in it but there was no image of LeBron James, who won the 2012 title.ReplyDelete
This is proof that Linsanity was MUCH BIGGER than the sport of basketball alone! It was a major cultural shift and possibly a once in a lifetime uprising on an International stage.
I guarantee you in 30 years from now when we are old geysers, everyone here on this site, and pretty much everyone, will talk about how in the year 2012 Jeremy Lin rose out of nowhere and defeated the best bball players in the world. Ah those were the days... ;)
Happy Holidays everyone!
Nemo, you get urself back again! Wow! Awasome! Happy holiday to you too!Delete
Haha, it's been so long since I've read a normal post from Nemo, I don't know what to say! I hope this version sticks around for a little bit longer. Happy holidays to you and everyone, too!Delete
Happy Holidays, Nemo. :)Delete
Happy Holidays everyone!
Yes Nemo, we were witnesses to history and have the privelege to tell our grandchildren about it. How awesome is it that!Delete
Nemo, can you make up your mind? one post your dislike for Lin shows.. next, you have nothing but good words for the guy...Delete
I personally believe, if Houston can get their act together by April, the NBA may WWE its way to a Houston-NY finals if certain dominos falls. Imagine the ratings for them so why wouldn't they do it.... the number of calls Harden already gets is obscene so the NBA may already be putting this into play.ReplyDelete
Haha, playing the Rox in the Finals -> Nyk's nightmare.Delete
[They'll be + Shump this time, though.]
Ratings will be through the roof.
That would be disastrous as both teams do not deserve to be in the Finals.
The refs would have to be blatantly biased for the rockets to get pass OKC, purs, Griz, or Clips.
I mean Spurs.Delete
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In the pre season the power rankings indicated that Lakers would certainly get into the playoffs. Some predicted that Lakers could go thru the season undefeated after D Howard signed up with them. Rockets were predicted to be in the bottom five.ReplyDelete
Even allowing for other factors, the Harden-Lin combination has proven to be much more effective than Howard-Nash.
Houston is currently ranked 7 and Lakers ranked 13 in the western conference. Keep your fingers crossed.
JLinfan#1: I'm tired of hearing JLin needs to be more aggressive. He just needs Harden to pass him the ball more often and his other teammates too, especially on the break."ReplyDelete
Agreed. The difference between elite Lin and fluke Lin has been whether the ball has been placed in Lin's control as a real PG or lead guard. The problem hasn't been Lin or opposing defenses. It's been the coaches' decisions for a team that has lacked a structural guarantee of Lin's role since the Harden trade.
With Lin's improvement, I've used Woodson's usage as the floor to judge the Rockets' use of Lin, while taking into account the reduction of the Secretariat overload, blow-outs, and Lin's injury. Team chemistries differ, but Woodson gave Lin standard NBA-PG touches and relied on Lin in decisive game situations. Woodson also made good use of Lin's versatility, such as his active off-the-ball skills. (In the game at MSG, I was struck by Mike Breen's observation that Lin was "always good off the ball", which Breen based of course on Lin the Knick, not on Lin's passivity as a Rocket, which reinforced the gap between the Knicks' use and Rockets' misuse of Lin.)
Some observations from the 76ers game:
They passed the Woodson test in the 76ers game. On the heels of the Knicks game, the 76ers game makes me confident the Rockets are finally on the right track for using Lin with Harden.
Lin played a significant role closing the game.
Lin is a streaky outside shooter. He was a streaky outside shooter during Linsanity. I expect he will upgrade his outside shooting consistency, but that's a long-term goal - maybe for next season. Lin's outside shot doesn't hurt the team, though, when he's allowed to play to his strengths so that his outside shooting only offsets his superior slashing game. I believe Lin shoots more confidently when he knows he can do other things anyway. It looks like the Rockets are learning to emphasize Lin's strengths and mitigate his weaknesses, like Woodson did, as opposed to limiting Lin to his weaknesses on the court.
Rather than play as a ball-dominating lead guard, Harden played as a scoring guard with good ball-handling ability. There's a difference, and that difference in Harden's usage allowed Lin to play as a ball-controlling point guard with good scoring ability.
Douglas/Lin is a noticeably better defensive backcourt than Douglas/Harden. Lin can effectively defend either the SG or PG, as the need may be, when Douglas is in the game. Lin can hound slower SGs. Harden's average-to-below-average defense is less noticeable on the SF.
The Rockets team defense is loose, but I'm not eager to see them address the problem. It's the D'Antoni 7SOL trade-off. Higher pace + looser defense = more offense to go around. The Rockets team offense has improved by leaps since they cut down on the post plays. The Rockets Fs are scoring, not just Harden. For all the Rockets scorers, especially Harden, to get theirs while Lin has enough touches to get his, the Rockets need to play fast and loose so there are enough touches to go around. They've actually had enough touches to go around for a while now, but the touches just haven't been going to Lin; now it appears he's finally getting his fair cut.
Going far in the play-offs requires superior team defense, but that's a concern for down the line. The D'Antoni 7SOL trade-off helped Nash win his MVPs, and it's going to help Lin and Harden establish their NBA reputations. If Lin padding his averages requires worse defense, then better to sacrifice the defense - for now. (For contender-level team defense and individual numbers, Lin would need a situation like Felton's PG role with the Knicks, where the shortage of iso creative scorers has forced Felton to be more aggressive scoring than his normal comfort zone.)
I'm optimistic that the Rockets are on the right track with Lin. Looks like Lin's season is finally starting.
sooooo sick of Eric's totally uncritical Woodson worship.Delete
Woodson HATES HATES HATES Lin. Woodson is a big reason why Lin is no longer a Knick.
Lin has played zero minutes for NY this season. Good riddance to New York and their hater coach Woodson.
"looks like lin's season is Finally starting".Hopefully hopefully and hopefully it's not just starting for few games then end it.Delete
One thing I noticed was Lin did shake hand with assistant coach, Herb Williams (both times), but not with Woodson. That was very telling of the relationship between Lin and Woodson.Delete
Woodson is not an XOs coach and he can't make in game adjustments. To go deep in the playoffs, you have to be able to think on your feet and frantkly, Woodson is not intelligent. He is very methodical. He had a very good record in Atlanta, but he was ran out because he was not a good playoffs coach. Unfortunately the east is weak so the Knicks might make it to the Eastern Champ.
Woodson can play checkers, but he can't play chess. Again, he doesn't have the brain to play chess in the playoffs.Delete
Perhaps, but I'm rooting for the player, not the team, and specifically the player's development and reputation in the near term for the life of the current contract, not his possible career outlook with the team.Delete
Whatever Woodson and Lin felt about each other, Woodson used Lin well when Lin played for Woodson.
I wonder if any of you who are very knowledgeable bbal viewers can shed some light on the next game against Memphis.ReplyDelete
I would love to learn more about the next game, instead of arguing with doubters. We fully believe what Lin can do (no matter what the box score shows), it's pointless to argue with non-believers.
Last time, Rockets lost, so what suggestion/advice would you give to Rockets coaches/players to overcome this coming game?
I vaguely remember someone here said he/she is not impressed by their star Rudy Gay. But his stat looks good this season. Who else should the young Rockets watch out for, Randolph? Gasol? What gameplan should the coaches draw up to challenge this team?
Memphis is basically a low-post heavy team. Randolph will be their biggest challenge. Scoring wise and rebounding wise. I Remembered last game the Rockets were clobbered on the boards. Marc Gasol is a skilled big man like his brother. Very good passer and make mid range shots.Delete
Conley is also pretty solid. Gay is quite overrated but still better than Parsons. Tony Allen will give Harden a difficult time.
As a team, Memphis is great defensive team and their pace is very slow. They are a grind out team. Penetrations will not be as easy as the two previous games.
Not sure if they are going to beat this team. Maybe the Griz are tired tomorrow since they played today.
Because Memphis are strong inside, they really have advantage with inside out game. Rockets bigs gotta man up and defend their man without help. Jeremy need not to over help our bigs and for both Harden and Parson, for the love of God just stay close with your man, I won't expecting anymore from you guys on defenseDelete
I like facts and am happy JLin is doing well on the paper. Let's hope the Rockets continue to let JLin play the way he's been playing recently. The only outcome I see is positive results for both ends.ReplyDelete
LinSANTAty: JLin takes disadvantaged kids on a shopping spree at Toys R Us.ReplyDelete
NY Post looks back at 2012ReplyDelete
1:47 - Linsanity
Hitler Downfall - LoF vs LoHReplyDelete
empty seats in the arena lolDelete
"is it hard for you idiots to wait at least a season for our development?!"Delete
The knicks are getting their asses kicked by the bulls at home in the fourth quarter.ReplyDelete
Check out fat Felton's stats!
He's been on the bench the whole fourth
Haha...poor Felton. Well well...everyone has some bad game then. I won't say anything bad about a player when they have a bad game. But..I am mean to feel happy to see they lose though...haha...Delete
No. It's not true. He's not the 4th bench all time. He plays ok though. If just look at the stats. But too many turnovers too.Delete
Lol ejected, ejected, ejected...Delete
And just 1 assist...lol..Delete
Ok. I m done checking the stats. Not too much interested.
I'm getting the feeling that the Knicks are desperate for attention and resorting to dirty play and ejections to get it.Delete
Here's proof that it is NOT working: I searched for the ejection incident on Youtube and there's not a single video showing it. Nobody cares about the Knicks no matter how much scummy ESPN or New York media tries to market this years NY team. There might be some people who randomly listen to Knicks news here and there, but the masses dont give a crap and there is no real passionate following for them besides the usual season ticket holders.
Now if Jeremy or his team was involved in that type of play, we can almost expect an instant upload on youtube by a true passionate Jlin fan. Truth.
Another conspiracy theory from Nemo himself.Delete
I really like the Bulls defensive attitude. They play freakin physical too. Rockets really need to watch and learn from the Bulls. It's really not shocking to see a team that plays this physical provoke technical fouls and ejections.Delete
Their coach is a pretty intense guy. He keeps on shouting at every play.Delete
Joakim Noah ejected vs Knicks
Tyson Chandler ejected
Head Coach Mike Woodson ejected
last Knicks vs Bulls game (Bulls home court), they play same aggressive D vs Knicks... I find them a bit inconsistent with the offense though.Delete
Red94: Examining the Lin/Harden pick-and-rollReplyDelete
Funny how once the video of Coach Nick from bballbreakdown came out and explained the importance of balancing JLin and Harden's screen and rolls, there an increase in similar articles about whether JLin has been used appropriately, especially on the clown site BleacherReports.com.Delete
Keidel: Jeremy Lin’s SinsReplyDelete
Exactly, NY just leave Jlin alone, you now got pie eating contest winner Ray Feelsaton and JKiddin'Me.Delete
It dawned on me that NY's roster is so similar to that of the Mavs roster when they won the championship in '10-'11. Dallas had Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd on the team.Delete
Though I dont think the Knicks will have the same success because they lack bench players like Jason Terry and JJ Barrera that can really play--JR Smith, Brewer, Wallace are all knuckleheads. If the Knicks cant win the championship this year, it's a monumental failure and even worst they lost Jlin.
Knicks also lack Rick Carlisle an XOs coach.Delete
The Mavs also have an elite defender in Marion.Delete
Also, Nowitzki created so much mismatches.
The Mavs also do not have a player like Stat that had a hard time coexisting with Nowitzki.
Yes, Yes, and Yes. Forgot about them too.Delete
lol. no love for my Knicks here?Delete
Not here romz. Kicks, picks, licks, breadstick, bootlick, boychick, carsick, chopstick, dipstick but no Knicks.Delete
Maybe Eric will show love to the Knicks.Delete
I've noted the Mavs-Knicks similarities before with the core of Chandler, Kidd, and Melo as Dirk. Both are in the same class of elite mid-range, volume-shooting, iso scorers. Dirk was once considered a play-off flop, too.Delete
Lin would have nailed down the Mavs championship formula for the Knicks as JJ Barea on steroids. Lin's combo game is a tailor-made fit with Kidd's game; the same can't be said for Felton's game with Kidd, though Felton has been used in a combo role. The Knicks blew it by opting for the cheaper veteran Felton, who is not a JJ Barea type.
The Knicks will likely make it to the 2nd round of the play-offs. Where the Knicks lose a close series in the 2nd round or maybe the conference finals, Lin would have made a difference. (The other side of the coin is that Lin would have been a play-off hero for the Knicks.)
The Knicks were the best structural fit for Lin for the near term, and both of his Knicks coaches used him well if differently, but missing Lin, while I'm fond of my hometown team, I'm not a diehard fan.
Rantsports: Jeremy Lin Should Start Over Chris Paul In The NBA All-Star GameReplyDelete
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What is an all-star anyway? JLin will never be considered or treated as an all-star. If you you ask JLin if he's an all-star or want to be an all-star, he probably say he would want to be just Jeremy Lin. Jeremy Lin is all-star. So next time when people say hey look it's all-star Lebron James, we have to correct them and say, no, it's Jeremy Lin Lebron James.Delete
that's right! what is an all-star anyway!!!! I see many keep saying jeremy still need to do this to prove and that to show he worth.....how much proving is enough for jeremy lin to prove and how much effort does he still need to show he worth it? even giving out the stats they still don't want to believe it or admit it. even with all the great games he play there's still voice that said need more proven. after all. jeremy lin just wants to be jeremy lin and play his games.Delete
I don't see any significance of being in All-Star game to a basketball player's regular or playoffs game or standing in the NBA. after all this is just popularity contest. I'm concerned with the playoff elimination games, in which teams play tougher after the All-Star weekend. I rather Jeremy, James, Chandler, Asik rest during the weekend so they'll be ready for the games after ASG.Delete
All-Star Saturday to feature East vs. West format for the first timeReplyDelete
via we need to ask jlinfan to create a section on this site for you called "Via's Media HotSpot." We can get all your treats there.Delete
Ah you, quit joking haha...Delete
Daryl Morey @dmoreyReplyDelete
MT @DraftExpress: Sergio Llull always plays great when I see him. Clear-cut NBA athlete. Does everything. Perfect compliment to Harden.
1:42 PM - 20 Dec 12
writing's on the wall. well, twitter wall. #free lin.Delete
Llull is a 6'3 pg/sg that supposedly can ball. I checked out his highlights and he likes to dunk a lot. His dunking reminds me a lot of how Jeremy dunks in college, LOL. Llull sure can dunk, but only on Europeans. Try dunking in the NBA. Perfect compliment? We'll have to see...Delete
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draft express made the original tweet, including a "but llull won't leave spain" at the end. morey replied with a "MT", modified tweet, and removed the last line, indicating there's a good chance llull might leave ?Delete
I was wondering why he left that part out too and I was gonna point it out, but I'm gusssing it was too long for the the retweet and hence was cut out.Delete
Llull's contract ends 2018.Delete
"I hope to spend my whole life with Real Madrid."
yeah, good for him. if he comes to the NBA he will not see another day of dunking on people.Delete
OMG! Morey is getting ready to trade JLin!Delete
Morey's tweet is a slip of the tongue revealing the Rockets don't think Lin and Harden are compatible.
LA Lakers, here we come! ;-)
Why do people keep saying Lin to LA?Delete
Do you really think the Lakers want him?
They have Nash who is ready to come back. Having Lin there will be redundant.
Tomorrow's game against Memphis will be a good test on whether JLin and Harden are compatible more than a test on a western conference powerhouse team.Delete
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The Rockets are definitely playing a lot better now. When JLin plays with a pep in his step the whole team is just so much better. That NY game really did wonders.Delete
Trade JLin to Sacramento and he'll turn that team around. Rockets can have Aaron Brooks back and Isiah Thomas. JLin can play with a pretty good big in Demarcus Cousins, but he needs to be tamed a bit. Keep Tyreke Evans and you have a pretty good core.Delete
Keith Smart is there.
Stay in Houston as much as I dislike the Rockets.
Sergio Llull is never coming to the NBA, he signed an 6-year contract with (Yes, they have 6-year contracts in Euroleague apparently). So he'll be 31 when he's eligible to come to the NBA, unless he signs another contract extension with Real Madrid.Delete
Morey, big mistake! This tweet could go back and haunt you one day. When his contract expires and he is still with the Rockets, Lin won't be giving any hometown discount to the Rockets. Unfortunately Rockets have his bird rights. It's sicken that the coaches disrespect him (with their actions), and now the GM (with his words). Who's next? Les? Rockets don't deserve him! I hate the Rockets!Delete
I have a feeling that Morey might use Lin and other assets/picks to trade for Howard sometime next year.
F- Morey if he does that. really.F-. him!Delete
Stop overreacting people lol
It's like everyone just focuses on one tweet and ignores all the good positive stuff Morey has been saying about Lin. All Morey is doing is praising a player he traded for...
Looking forward to the Memphis game tomorrow. JLin has finally turned the corner and the team as a whole has improved some in transition defense, rotating on defense, and pick and roll defense. One good thing is that Memphis played today, so they may be a little tired.ReplyDelete
The Roxs defense better show up tomorrow or they will have no chance.Delete
CSN: Rockets have 'statement game' vs GrizzliesDelete
Call me pessimistic, but I won't be surprised that the Grizzlies blew out the Rockets. Just look at the Grizzlies' playroll, that team is too talented and too deep. The team is built to be so balanced like the Pistons of the 2000s. Plus they are experienced and unlike the Lakers actually have great chesmitry playing together. I definitely can see Tony Allen shutting down Harden and their elite shot blockers giving Lin all kind of trouble. Just to remind everyone that there is no need for any knee jerk reaction regarding Lin even he and the Rockets have a bad performance vs the Grizzlies (which should be expected).Delete
Yeah, they have a really solid starting five and good bench play too.Delete
I have positive feelings though with this game. I dunno, same feeling when Jeremy returned to MSG, and they blew out Rockets... I pray, just one home game vs Grizzlies. please, one game, and one home game vs Thunder too..Delete
*blew out Knicks...Delete
It's funny how a player who never played a single nba minute is getting rated more highly than Lin. Anyway, I don't really care if anyone, even his own GM, undermines Lin. As long as Lin continues to progress as a player, he's going to be fine wherever he plays. Being put on the bench or traded away is only the team's loss, not Lin's.ReplyDelete
It's hardly implied in the tweet that he regards Llull more highly than Lin...Delete
The tweet implies strongly that Harden is considered the centerpiece of the team whom his teammates must complement.Delete
The inference about Lin with describing Llull as the perfect complement for Harden comes from all the other talk, though not directly from Morey, about the difficulty fitting Lin and Harden together.
It doesn't mean that Morey thinks Llull is better than Lin judged side by side in a vacuum, but Morey does clearly judge players - at least guards - for his team according to their fit with Harden.
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I like this statistical analysis. You should do it again after Jeremy has 82 starts under his belt and compare it to the rookie years of these players (and in Nash's case, his first 82 starts because he spent much of his rookie year on the bench). I think Tony Parker and Derron Williams should be included in this analysis though.ReplyDelete
All first-year NBA players have flaws in their games. And first-year PGs tend to be erratic jump shooters. I think all the PGs mentioned here were not very good jump shooters early in their careers. Jeremy is no exception. But like many of the players mentioned in this blog post, he can become one of the greats if he works on the flaws in his game.
I live in Chicago, so I have watched a ton of Derrick Rose over his NBA career. He's a superior pure athlete to Jeremy and pretty much every other PG in the league (pre-ACL tear, of course), but he had many of the same flaws during his rookie year that Jeremy has now during his first 50 starts.
Rookie-year Rose and current J-Lin are great at getting to the rim but have a very inconsistent J and are poor 3-point shooters so defenders back off and dare them to shoot from long range. I think that Jeremy is a slightly better defender than D.Rose was in his rookie year though both were not great on defense (largely because of their coaches and style of play).
The big differences are that D.Rose has superior hops (compared to every NBA PG, not just Jeremy--though that might change depending on how he comes back from knee surgery) and could always go left as effectively as he can go right. Jeremy will never be an elite or explosive leaper like D.Rose because you can't simply teach or practice that. But then again, the history of the NBA is filled with great point guards that were not necessarily great pure athletes (John Stockton, Steve Nash). But Jeremy really needs to work on going to his left---a very correctable flaw.
D.Rose has really worked hard on improving his long-range shooting over the years and he has become a better shooter each year. There is no reason J.Lin can't do the same. He seems to have a very good work ethic so I think that will happen.
However, I think J.Lin is at a disadvantage in his defensive development because of the team he plays for. D.Rose improved defensively because he is now coached by arguably the best defensive head coach in the league. J.Lin does not play for a defensive-minded team and its clear that McHale is not a very good defensive coach which is why Houston is one of the worst defensive teams in the league in terms of opponents FG% and points per game.
Bottom line: Jeremy is not yet in the caliber of point guard as Derrick Rose and the players mentioned in this blog, but he can get there after working on the flaws in his game. I expect him to be an elite PG in the mold of Steve Nash or maybe even Tony Parker. He just needs to improve his shooting and his ability to go left.