What a game it was last night for the young Rockets. The least experienced team in the NBA crushing the most experienced. It's just one game and like you can't read too much into one loss, we can't read too much into one win. However, here are a few of my observations.
When a teammate is playing his former team for the first time, you know how badly they want to win that game. Chandler Parsons really stepped up and played his best game as a Rocket to help his buddy JLin get the win. Basically saying by his play, "I got your back". James Hardin did the same, playing like the Hardin of the first 2 games of the season and Omer played great as well. This was by far, the best overall game by the Rockets. They were just on fire from the outside and consistently attacked the paint as well.
As JLin said he's been exposed a bit recently, the Knicks were exposed a bit too. Their perimeter D was non-existent and besides Tyson Chandler, they look to have no inside presence. Granted, the Knicks were coming in at the tail end of a long road trip. However, I thought Melo looked great. He's lost about 15 pounds and looks to be on a mission. Iman Shumperts return will really help their perimeter D and when Amare returns, he'll give them much more inside. I believe the Knicks have a good shot to make the conference finals.
Back to JLin, it was a nice step in the right direction for him. He was much more aggressive throughout, going to the basket. He's still struggling to finish when contested, which was one of his strengths during his breakout. It looks like its just gonna take a little more time to get back that last bit of explosiveness. He finally hit a 3 pointer and that felt so so good. I feel he is really on the verge of a shooting breakthrough. One, where he gets hot and hits 4,5, 6 jumpers in a row.
Next up is Toronto and Kyle Lowry. I already can't wait to see that matchup!
The game last night from the NY perspective:
Knicks give Lindefensible effort in loss to Rockets - NYPOST.com
Knicks links: Defense contains Jeremy Lin, forgets about Rockets' James Harden, Chandler Parsons | NJ.com
With Knicks’ Eyes on Him, Lin Improvises in Win - NYTimes.com
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ReplyDeleteJLin really needed a good shooting night. The key was he was able to find open lanes for a few nice layups. That was what he had going in February. However, he is still not getting to the line. There was one fast break where he was hit in the air, but no call.
ReplyDeleteI just sent an email to the NBA at
http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html
Score keeping error--
November 23, 2012, Houston Rockets vs. NY Knicks. 3rd Quarter, 1:49 remaining, Jeremy Lin knocks the ball away from Felton, and the Steal was given to James Harden instead of Jeremy Lin.
Last year there was a scoring error where they gave JLin's assist to T.Chandler on a breakaway pass to Melo. I sent an email, and they eventually changed it. Their response was that they take these scoring seriously, and was thankful for the feedback.
That's cool didn't know you could do that
DeleteOh wow heck yeah going to email them that was totally JLin's steal.
DeleteI also thought Jeremy had other steals other than the one off of Carmelo. Emailed :)
DeleteVery cool of you. I don't pay attention to other players, but I feel that Lin probably got the most passionate fans, at least on the Internet front.
DeleteYou definitely got JLin's back :) like his teammates did.
DeleteI sent one email using the template that you provided so they will definitely look into it
Awesome! We JLin fans should learn from you :)
DeleteWow...didn't know u can do that! Awsome! Good fan n knowledge fan of you!
DeleteThx for letting us know @Reebok.
Delete[Here is something we can do that will actually bring concrete results.] :)
Totally agree, its great to see Rockets behind Lin last night...Although you can always say its just another team game, it was pretty clear they were looking out for Lin...I especially liked how Parsons and Asik were both right behind Lin if he misses to clean up, and they did great drawing Chandler out to leave holes for JLin to penetrate...There were a few layups that JLin should have made that were in and out, but it was obvious JLin had no difficulty getting to the rim, that's credit to him and the team, they got his back alright!
ReplyDeleteGreat to see the guys getting the job done. It's big games like these, guys getting each other's back leading to a big win, that builds camaraderie. Keep the good play rolling!
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Jeremy has some of his speed back. Now it's for vertical explosiveness. I remember during watching a clip from a couple of days back where Jeremy says that he will take the next few days before the next game to work on some explosiveness exercises with the staff. A few days will probably not show great improvement, but I am glad they are working on it. It will certainly help him finishing in traffic once he gets more vertical lift back.
Yes, this is definitely a statement game for Houston of how good they can be when they play to their strength in transition game and the 3 pointers are falling in. They can compete with one of the best teams in the East. And to think that JLin is not 100% yet, it sure shows a lot of promise to Les and Morey.
DeleteI also see he's slowly getting his explosiveness in terms of getting the balance although the vertical elevation were not quite there yet. I wonder how much plyometrics exercise would be able to build the muscle during the season. Usually it takes the whole offseason like he did last season to do so.
Lol I love Tyson Chandler's comments:
ReplyDelete'We got to be concerned. That team isn't better than us. They're not 30 points better than us. I take responsibility.'
BTW other than the treys he made when Lin wasn't guarding him, it was pretty clear to me Lin won the matchup between him and Felton, he did a pretty good job shutting him down.
I still can't believe how Asik turned it on and owned Chandler. I bet Tyson is pretty PO'd about that.
Kidd vs Harden, well that matchup was doomed to failure to begin with.
But Parsons vs Melo? Wow what a surprise.
I think the rematch on the 17ths is going to be awesome, expect both teams to play their hearts out, should be one heck of a game!
Indeed - doesnt matter what Tyson Chandler says - Rockets destroyed them. I was very suprised as well to see Parson going against Melo the way he did. Asik was dope! OK - he missed some easy ones but he made Tyson Chandler go nuts :)
DeleteAnthony is playing PF. Technically, Parsons went off on Brewer.
DeleteNo was guarding Parsons. He was open all game long.
Delete*No one
DeleteI don't want to talk about the Knicks but these people in the media and the Knicks fans are seriously kidding themselves if they really think the Knicks are better without Jeremy Lin. Okay they have a good record now and Felton and Kidd are playing well but it's not like we haven't seen this story before. The Knicks can easily have a losing streak as they have a winning streak. Are they seriously thinking that Felton could turn a 1st round team to a Finals team?! And most importantly even Lin might not be better than Felton/Kidd this year (although I believe he is and will prove it later in the season), let's not forget Lin's contract is 3 year long. 3 years later, while Lin is only 26-27 and entering his prime, Felton will be fading and Kidd will be retiring. Lol those people are so short sighted and never look at the big picture.
ReplyDeleteAlso, maybe we need a few more games to prove it, but has anyone noticed how Knicks' D got worse compared to last year when Lin's playing? Tyson Chandler didn't look so DPOY anymore without Lin's presence lol.
DeleteDon't forget Iman Shumpert too
DeleteShumpert "looks" like a good defender the same way Douglas "looks" like a better defender than Lin.
DeleteThere is no ifs in life. But if Lin's still in NY, I bet the Knicks would be in better shape now and in the future. There is no looking back though and the Knicks destroyed that possibility by themselves.
Ok, before anyone jumps on me, what I am going to say is not a knock on Lin at all, who is a very good defender. Shumpert does look good on the eye test. But the stats bear it out too.
DeleteI know defensive stats are not very reliable. But since you are rejecting the eye test, I have to turn to those. Shumpert Defensive Win Shares is 2.5, which is just slightly lower than Rajon Rondo's rookie year 2.6. His Defensive Rating is the same as Lin during Linsanity at 101. He also has more steals than Lin (both per game and per 36/min except for when Lin was at GSW).
Shumpert's defence may well be overrated but he is far, far, far better than Toney Douglas.
To add, I wasn't saying Lin is better or worse than Shumpert at defence. Just saying that Chandler went from having Lin/Shumpert in front of him to Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd (DWS at a paltry 0.2 and 0.4 respectively) which is really just a massive drop.
DeleteGood point!
DeleteThe Knicks don't have a future mindset. They want to win now (as in championship). And I believe, ultimately, they made a decision that was best for the Knicks: obtaining Felton. And I also believe, without question, that the Rockets is by far the best place for Jeremy and his development. Really a win/win on both sides.
DeleteI agree. At the same time that the Knicks are a better fit for Lin than the Rockets, Lin is a better for the Knicks than Felton.
DeleteThe Knicks defense will recover and they're going to make it through the regular season. But the Knicks offense has been exposed in the last 2 games in that they only have one reliable creative scorer in Anthony when the team ball movement breaks down.
Felton is a solid PG, a pro the coach can rely on to execute his gameplan, but he's not a creative scorer. The Knicks rely on creative scoring from the PG position to complement Anthony, just like they did last season under Woodson.
It's obvious that Felton is playing a role for the Knicks that was designed for Lin.
i think the best thing the Knicks made this season is obtaining Jkidd who by the way decided to sign with the Knicks because he wanted to mentor a young PG name Jlin. I guess he will be mentoring Iman when the latter comes back from injury. I hope though Jlin will find a good PG mentor. I don't mind him playing behind a great veteran PG. And unfortunately for Chandler he has been subpar this season. He is one player we all love. but this season for some reason he just decided to not play good defense. His overall effort dropped. I keep wondering why, because last season he's an inspired man playing with Jlin.
DeleteAlso, the improvement of Carmelo. He now allowed others to get in his spotlight like he did with Felton in the Spurs game.
DeleteThe addition of Wallace can be helpful in the playoffs.
knicks are the definition of getting exposed. a still injured lin with no lift penetrates at will against fat felton and aging kidd. jr "i'm going to kick lin's ass" smith chucks up 10+ idiotic shots, and the knicks were lucky he didn't melt down like melo either. knuckleheads galore.
ReplyDeleteexposed.
I agree.
DeleteI do think that the Nits are a good team - just NOT a great team. I mean how can anyone really tell at this point? I'm guessing because everyone else is.
My guess at this point thus far is that the Nits appeared better than they really are, while the Rox looked worse than they really are (due to the acquisition of Harden at the last minute and the inexperienced Rockets needing to play more together).
They don't have Stat and Shump.
DeleteI know you two HATE the Knicks. But at least try to be objective. It is one game. An outlier. The Knicks played differently in this game.
The Knicks defense should recover.
DeleteTheir offense has been exposed the past 2 games, though. The Knicks rely heavily on ball movement to generate offense. If that breaks down, their only reliable creative scorer is Anthony because their other reliable creative scorer is playing for the Rockets.
In terms of a conventional PG executing a coach's gameplan, Felton is a veteran with more reliable PG skills than Lin. But in terms of a guard who can create scores and make plays when the gameplan has broken down, Lin can do those things and Felton can't.
The Knicks chose the cheaper guy who's better running the generator over the more expensive guy who can turn on the lights when the generator breaks.
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DeleteNeph,
DeleteThe Nits are those 2 players missing, BUT they have so many veterans with the fact that Shump is out for a while. As with current injuries, other teams are facing it even more - that's what happened to the 76ers with 2 major players missing out of their lineup (not just Bynum) for several games. Shump is a good player, but he is not a major player currently.
Get over with your love affair with your Nits. Be more objective yourself!
@ntt, Felton and JR are such bums. They talked smack all week and they come out looking average. It felt like Felton only scored when Lin wasn't on him...I know i'm exaggerating but for Felton to come out like he was on a mission to outplay Lin and then to play the way he did, was pretty funny.
DeleteKnicks fans and sports journalists noted how odd it was to see Felton trying so hard to contain/outplay Lin. It was evident in the 1st half and then in the second half, it didn't really matter what Felton did because the game was lost at that point with Melo's T and Tyson's flagrant. The Knicks and Felton are what I consider mental midgets. They don't have the capacity to overcome adversity like other veteran/supposedly championship calibur teams. Actually, the fans/journalists/analysts also thought it was weird how hard the Knicks game planned for Lin. Lin isn't even the 3rd best player on his team! Their game plan was whack and they know it.
The law of averages tells me that Felton and JR's shooting %'s will come back down to earth and Lin should's increase. We'll see how the season plays out but i'd rather have Lin, Mr. ice-in-the-veins than Felton the mental midget.
@ztrta
DeleteYou should also stop your BLIND HATRED against the Knicks.
The Hawks? Really? They are a 6th seed at best.
The Nets? With that soft Center they have? Lin may even outrebound Lopez.
The Knicks played terribly last night. It was one game people. They won't play like that every game. It was a minor setback. A bump in the road. Their rebounding woes will end upon the return of Stat. Their top defense will be improved upon the return of one of the best perimeter defenders in the league: Shumpert.
Faugh.
Deleteztrta can hate on the Knicks all he wants, neph. You don't order people aroud here, as I've constantly reminded you.
Besides, you're a Spurs fan who hates Houston and everyone in Houston - likely including Lin. So stop being a hypocrite.
LOL
DeletePlease read what ztrta posted above. Read before you start your tantrums.
You're also being a hypocrite. You like to order people around.
DeleteAs I've remembered, you threatened to leave this place because you couldn't bear my "negativity" towards the Rockets' coaches. You also like to tell people to stop flaming other people. Well, we can flame people if we want to especially when they are psycho Nemo, Glenn, and joe mama.
You love to act as a police here my friend.
No you can't just go around flaming people, neph.
DeleteYou've hated most of the people on this site for a long time, me the most.
You show no respect to people, and you think you run this place. You're wrong on both counts.
Your negativity is disgusting and a disgrace. You hate everybody and everything.
Actually neph, your hate of people here has KEPT ME HERE.
DeleteSomebody's gotta counteract your haterade. I'll happily be that person.
I believe Stoudemire's return will HURT the Knicks, not help. Knicks actually play better without Amare.
DeleteHe's possibly one of the worst defenders in the entire league. He clogs the paint and competes with both Tyson and Melo as far as spacing.
His offense really isn't needed and does not make up for the liability he is on the defensive end.
Neph,
DeleteRead my post in the thread below. Your apparently precious Spurs - I mean the Nits - are a .500 team in their last 6 games (against a mix of various level teams) after winning the first 5 easy games.
Your opinions are sometimes (I do like many of your posts) based on fiction or false perception, while my "hate" opinions are based on facts and insights! Crazy. I don't like the Nits for the slimy way they handled the young trusting player's free agency, but I must (at least best to my ability) base my opinions on facts and good observation - otherwise it's just being wrong and stupid.
@KHuang
DeleteWell, you better get used to it because hypercritical posts are just my style. I don't sugarcoat. I'm not as optimistic as you.
@Dystopia1980
DeleteI disagree
In game 4 of the 2012 playoffs, I've witnessed the importance of Stat. Woodson was actually able to make Stat play better defense and rebound better. That Size of Stat is important when they faced big teams.
In the playoffs, it is all about matchups. The Knicks can use Rasheed Wallace more to space the Floor for Amare and Carmelo when it is needed. They can also use Stat as a sixth man which will solidify their BENCH.
So it all depends on the matchups. Their key here is that they have the depth that they did not have last season.
@ztrta
I'm not even a Knicks fan. But a lot of posters here are so blinded by their hate against the Knicks. They want the Knicks to FAIL. They want to embarrass the Knicks ORGANIZATION in letting Lin go.
I personally see them as a 2nd or 3rd seed when injuries are limited.
neph,
DeleteFor the Knicks, I don't think regular season wins is the most important thing. Most of the roster has deep play-off experience, so dominating the regular season isn't as big a deal. I expect they'll be willing to leave regular season wins on the table if it means preserving their old players for the play-offs. As you say, it's all about match-ups. For the Knicks, it's about getting a good enough seed to avoid a top contender in the 1 round, like what happened with the Heat last season.
As far as Lin fans who define their Lin fandom with anti-Knickism, they got what they wanted when the Rockets pulled hard enough so the Knicks let go of Lin. Now, it's fascinating how some of them will excuse and rationalize Rockets acts to Lin that far exceed the Knicks acts, real and imagined, they railed against.
Eric, you've been hating on Lin fans for MONTHS now.
DeleteYour problem with Lin fans is that they support Lin even when the Knicks do not.
This is a Lin fanboard. Don't come here to hate on people and then whine about being retaliated against. You'll get EMBARRASSED, just like your insane notion that Lin couldn't possible play point guard has EXPOSED you.
Eric
DeleteYeah, some of the Lin fans that were ecstatic in Houston's signing of Lin, are now very unhappy. I've read some of the craziest conspiracy theories about what happened behind doors.
Initially, I was neutral about the free agent move. Both teams provide positives.
Let us see if people will still be so optimistic after a few months.
I personally do not like the Rockets organization. They have an overrated coaching staff, GROSSLY overrated GM, and one of the worst fan base in the entire NBA.
The next game will be toronto but after that it would be very tough. The young Rockets will face 6 TOUGH opponents after the Toronto game. They could possibly lose 6 straight. Let us see if people here will remain as optimistic and happy with the Rockets.
NY truly must be the center of the world...
Delete"Lin fans who DEFINE their Lin fandom with anti-Knickism"?
Are there really any?
I guess Nyk fans take any unflattering observations anyone have on the Nyk as = a personal, calculated act of aggression somehow?
Eric: "Now, it's fascinating how some of them will excuse and rationalize Rockets acts to Lin that far exceed the Knicks acts, real and imagined, they railed against."
neph: "Yeah, some of the Lin fans that were ecstatic in Houston's signing of Lin, are now very unhappy."
- Eric, even neph can see there's no bias. Lin fans get just as unhappy with Houston as they were with the Nyk.
At least you've always been honest about your Houston-hate, neph...
[On another note, you can see how that might slightly askew your view of JLin's prospects in that city, right? Might just make your standards for that place a bit more unforgiving?]
I don't care to talk about the Knicks anymore, but they are continuously being hyped as a top tier contender - even in this forum. IMO, there are 4 teams who are and will be better than the Knicks in EC: Heat, Celtics, Nets, Hawks. There are 85% more games left. We'll generally have more clearer picture of where all teams are when teams play 22 more games (about 40%).
ReplyDeleteFirstly, the Knicks' first 5 games were played against easier or handicapped teams: The "handicapped teams during the first 5 games were the Heat and 76ers: The heat was in no mood to play the Knicks in their turf right after the Superstorm Sandy; and the 76ers (2 games) were out TWO of their starters, Bynum and Richardson. Secondly, once teams realized that the Knicks now have 5 (not 3) guys who specialize in 3-point shooting, defense adjusted to contest their 3's more (which is what the Grizzlies, Mavs and Rockets did within one week span).... not many people believed me, so I did some research, rather than roughly from in my head:
(W) Game #1: vs Heat "handicapped" by the Superstorm Sandy.
(W) Game #2: vs 76ers without Bynum AND Richardson.
(W) Game #3: @ 76ers without Bynum AND Richardson.
(W) Game #4: vs Mavs, without Nowwitzki (+ not a big-market roster this time).
(W) Game #5: @ Magic (not a good team).
(W) Game #6: @ Spurs. The first time where I thought the Knicks may be for real.
[L] Game #7: @ Griz. Saw Knicks beat Spurs w/ 3-point shooting, defense adjusted.
(W) Game #8: vs Pacers (not a good team).
(W) Game #9: @ Hornets (not a good team).
[L] Game #10: @ Mavs. Now in Dallas - plus defense adj to the 3-point shooting team.
[L] Game #11: @ Rox. Again, the defense adjusted to the team with five 3's shooters.
Thus, to me, the Knicks are looking more like what I thought they would be: A good team; NOT a great team. Plus, too many aging players in the roster will catch up with them, although it was a smart idea and they had no choice because of them in the salary cap space rut.
If doesn't matter what team they compete, bad or good, winning games are winning! By far now they got good records n come out looking pretty strong team to compete with, so besides that I wouldn't look so deep. Should not downgrade their credits for winning games saying because they mostly compete with easier team. Let's hold our tongue before we say it too early.
DeleteLike I've already said, it's too early to tell, but with other stating their opinions, I'm also making my opinions.
DeleteThe fact remains, if we are to judge them now, the Knicks DO NOT look a hot team. If you are too look at their first 5 games, you have to look at their lst 6 games also.
Pacers not a good team? You've lost all credibility.
Delete@# 1 j
DeleteThank you for your reply to Neph in a much better way than I could. I didn't know the specifics, but I knew in general that the Pacers so far hasn't been as good as the last season. Larry Bird was good for them.
They also don't have much support from fans; attendance wise, it's even worse than the Rockets. That's why I was wondering why Neph kept saying that Lin should be traded to the Pacers.
Lin can help their ball movement with his pnr ability. Hill is not really a pg. Lin + Hibbert is a great combination.
DeleteThey are struggling because of the absence of Granger, their best scorer.
and they need a pg like Lin to improve their ball movement.
Delete"They also don't have much support from fans; attendance wise, it's even worse than the Rockets."
- No, No, No
The Rocket fans are one of the WORST fans in the NBA. Even some Knicks fans were surprised that some Rockets fans were leaving before the game is over. Even some Rockets fans admit that they do not have great fanbase.
What I mean is that Lin will be in a better position to use his talents.
DeleteHe will definitely be given a chance to play his style. he will have better weapons in West and Hibbert and even granger when he returns. Unlike in Houston, he basically hides in the corner and watch Harden hold the ball.
And please, let us not overrate the Houstonian fans. I'm not buying this second rate city with their second rate fans.
By the way:
DeleteHibbert + West >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asik + Patterson
More neph homer Spurs hate of Houston
DeleteWhat a flameboy he is.
Yes I hate Houston
DeleteSo?
Mike D’Antoni on leaving Gasol on crunch time, “I was thinking, ‘Boy, I’d like to win this game.’ That was the reason.”
ReplyDeleteNo timetable for Steve Nash's return
IT WILL HAPPEN FOLKS!
JLin playing under Dantoni - it does sound exciting and who knows - maybe one day it will happen. But - Im not sure it is going to happen any time soon.
DeleteJLin is just getting warm with his folks in Houston. The team publicly anounced that its a "new era". They cant give up JLin after a few games. What would that say about the management and who would they replace him with?
Also - JLin has been under a lot of pressure as a star player. Fans have just come to except JLins new role - a role in which JLin doesnt shine quite as much - but is also not burdened with the pressure to score Linsanity style. Right now - Rockets fans would be more than happy if JLin had a double double every now and then. All he has to do is get to 100% - attack a little more - score a little better - everyone would be happy - easy money for our NBA star (what is all he ever wanted to be).
What would be the situation if JLin played under Dantoni? Lin + Dantoni = Linsanity. Thats what everyone would expect -> lots of pressure + lots of new teammates. Hey - I would love to see that but JLin is still recovering. He is just getting his legs and his confidence back. Is that the right thing for him (right now)? I mean meantally and physically?
The Rockets "bsketball minds" (per realGM and other aticles) were never keen on signing Lin, which is why he's been tossed around with experiments and as a backup PG to Harden. Meanwhile the Lakers are looking to trade their 2 backup PGs, Blake and Duhon; and now the news that Nash is out longer.
DeleteLin can be the starter for the Lakers until Nash comes back. Nothing wrong with backing Nash. With the Rockets, things are extremely UNCERTAIN for Lin (worse than the 1st backup I'm guessing, because if it's the basketball minds' will, it will happen for sure; they are very quick to yank Lin out with the slightest of mistakes (treated as a scrub), while not to others.
but I also think that the Lakers are not a super team this year because of a few too many expensive aging vets. However, the Lakers will continue to improve their roster - certainly by next season.
Delete"who would they replace him with?"
DeleteThe Rockets already have replaced Lin in role, though he still has the position. Harden from his first day on the job and now increasingly Parsons. The optimistic outlook is Lin can earn back his role as #2 behind Harden by hitting some Js. The thing is, even before Parsons got hot scoring, he was already handling the ball more than expected when Lin was also on the court.
A trade to the Lakers is unlikely. Looking at the top-heavy Lakers roster, it's hard to imagine Morey would trade Lin if Gasol wasn't included, so it would have to be a panic move by the Lakers. Plus, even in a panic, Kupchak would only trade for Lin if D'Antoni really, deeply, not just saying it, truly believes in Lin as his PG because a blockbuster trade for Lin would be a fireable offense and make D'Antoni and Kupchak out to be fools if Linsanity turned out to be a fluke after all.
Still, a PG-less desperate D'Antoni and a made-redundant Lin opens the door for fans to speculate.
I agree the pressure on Lin would be huge if Nash is done because of this injury. But if Nash can get back to just old and fragile, then a lot of pressure will be taken off Lin. In that case, Lin would be in a great position as Nash's understudy who plays a lot and starter-in-waiting.
Another Lin-to-Lakers-talk.
DeleteLin is not going to be traded to the Lakers.
Would the Lakers accept Lin especially when Lin is struggling? NO
Also, Gasol's salary is around 19-20 mil ( 10 mil higher than Lin's). So, the Rockets won't be able to sign another star.
A core of Harden-Gasol-Parsons-Asik-Douglas is not a contender.
Would you want Lin to be a backup to an old dude?
DeleteThe Rockets want to rebuild and sustain success for a long time. With Gasol, their success will be limited to 2-3 years.
DeleteBy the way, Lin's value is not yet that high. Until he breaks out, he'll be stuck with the Rockets.
agree with neph basketballwise. Les and Morey are short-sighted like Dolan. The Rockets are taking shape now and JLin is getting better day by day, the trade won't do the Rockets any good.
Delete-are not
Deleteztrta,
DeleteAgreed. The way I look at the Lakers possibility is the way I look at the Knicks' fit for Lin. Is either team a top contender with or without Lin? No. Is either team a long-term proposition for Lin? No, they're old and his contract is for 3 years. (Although a Howard/Lin combo could become one.) That's not the important thing.
The important thing is what team offers Lin the best conditions in the short term over the life of his contract to develop in this critical foundational stage of his career.
The developmental promise that the Rockets offered Lin when he first joined them was taken away with the Harden trade, and Harden ain't going anywhere.
"Would you want Lin to be a backup to an old dude?"
DeleteThat's one factor that makes the choice close. Nash had an expiration date even before he was injured.
No question: all else being equal, starter is better than back-up.
But Lin's starting PG position has been trending to role-playing starter. Can Lin still reverse the trend by reviving his scoring output? Maybe, hopefully, and it's early.
While "back up to an old dude" who's no iron man when relatively healthy and already missing games from injury means a lot of playing time. Playing for D'Antoni means the PG role is guaranteed to be outsized. And it's a PG role Lin is proven in.
So, role-playing starter for a coach who gave away his job from day one to the new guy vs starter-in-waiting understudy to an old, fragile Hall-of-Fame mentor in a custom-fit PG role for a coach who believes in him. And if the Lakers make this trade, it will only be because D'Antoni truly deeply believes in him.
Is that really a tough choice?
If Lin was his old self it would be an easy choice for Dantoni. But Lin is still working on his legs, his shooting. Say Dantoni trades for Lin - Lin would have to take over for Nash immediately - say he is still not 100% -> Dantoni in big trouble.
DeleteDont get me wrong - I think it would be great for Lin to have Nash as mentor (great role model, less pressure, a coach who trusts him - same money) - I think Lin would not mind being backup PG in such a case but - Nash is out and that changes a lot. Lakers are looking for someone who is good to go immediately.
Another reason why JLin should stay in Houston...
DeleteIf he asked to be traded people would say that JLin cant coexist with dominant iso guys like Melo or Harden. They dont call it "jump ship" for no reason. He should stay were he is, take that chance that he has (not much pressure scoring, low expectations) to get back to 100% and then he should step up. His team is young, has a lot of potential and they can go places. After yesterdays game its quite obvious that they have bonded... thats most important.
willydilly,
DeleteRemember that old SNL sketch, Lowered Expectations?
"If he asked to be traded people would say that JLin cant coexist with dominant iso guys like Melo or Harden."
DeleteI'll take Anthony and Harden and raise you one Kobe.
With Anthony and Harden, it's different cases.
Remember, by all accounts, Lin expected and wanted to return to the Knicks. Lin actually co-existed fine with Anthony under Woodson's more-conventional system because the G and F roles don't clash. Anthony's beef was with his role in D'Antoni's system.
The difference with the Rockets is that Lin and Harden's redundant G/G skillsets do clash. The problem isn't Harden's iso scoring ability - a main part of Lin's job as a PG is to complement iso scorers. The problem is Harden's ball-handling ability overlaps Lin's role.
Setting aside the feasibility of a Lakers-Rockets trade for Lin or whether D'Antoni would go out on a limb for Lin, I do wonder how Kobe will view D'Antoni's system, given Anthony's problem with it.
Eric,
DeleteIn my opinion, even D'Antoni does NOT believe in Lin after the initial 3 week Linsanity period. However, I'm not looking for the trade because of D'Antoni as the coach per se - A decision based that would be a huge mistake from everyone's point of view. Because the Lakers are a big-market perpetual win-now wanna be team (like the Nits, Mavs, Bulls, Heat, and now add the Nets), I'd expect the possible trade based on the knowledge that 1) Nash will be coming back by January 1st; and that Lin will be a backup then. 2) Lin's salary for the next 2 years is modest for a lot of teams to take on; and the 3rd year is either an expiring contract or Lin will prove that he's worth it - and he will, just look at other salaries of inferior PGs with a high salary every year of their contract. If in the 3rd year Lin doesn't pan out to a starter caliber in the Lakers lofty standard, then he can be traded to a 2nd tier, but still good, teams.
by the Lakers' standard.
Delete@ztrta, what are you talking about, D'antoni is a big fan of Lin. Are you saying D'antoni didn't support Lin because he asked Dolan to ship Melo out for Deron? I don't think that request had much to do with Lin but rather, D'antoni was hell bent on getting rid of Melo.
DeleteIt's disappointing that people have come to accept Lin as a role player/complimentary piece to Harden. Yea, maybe Lin will get more touches once he gets his J back but I don't want Lin to be used as just another offensive scorer. I want him to be used as a PG - controlling the pace, facilitating, and playmaking.
I like coach MikeD a lot and yes he does support Lin.
DeleteI was just replying to Eric's wondering how MikeD might *really* feel about Lin as a player - because the trade would depend on that. Lin will fit the MikeD's system, just like we all thought Lin would fit into the McHale's system - but were WRONG because it turned out that it was NOT McHale's system but rather Adelman's system. Surprise Surprise!
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSorry, had to fix my grammar.
Delete@ztrta, yeah I get what you're saying now. The thing is, D'antoni's system is D'antoni's system and his system has ALWAYS been PG friendly and extremely friendly/awesome for smart PG's like Lin. If i had to pick, I see D'antoni sticking to his system (he'd done that wherever he coached) more than Mchale sticking to his motion offense/system.
From what i've seen so far, the rockets don't see Lin as a guy that can lead a team. If they did, they would have done what @Eric thought they'd do, and that is, move in the direction of having Lin and Harden play off each other. Instead, what we see is the complete opposite where 80% of the playmaking/ball handling goes through Harden. Lin's long time trainer even mentioned that Lin's role had been reduced to a spot up shooter, camping at the 3.
I know that Lin will adjust and work his hardest to be the best player that he can be in Mchale's system but Lin won't be able to play to his full potential. He'll be good but he won't be great. Systems/Coaches matter and when a player finds a coach/team/system that compliments him, he excels. That's not Lin's situation.
@ #1j
DeleteAlso, we've seen how pro-active D'Antoni was with Melo. So we can take an educated guess how much support D'Antoni can actually give JLin when those two becomes "problematic."
I'd think Kobe and Dwight would love to get nice passes from Lin, as well as score if he has to occasionally. Plus, the Lakers will be their team without a doubt and the light will be dimmer on Lin, which I think will suit everybody, including Lin. LA's basketball media don't seem to be as crazy as NY because they have also have to cover the beauty and vanity business.
Delete@ k. smith
DeleteIt's sad to see that Lin has to learn a whole another system so soon, rather than building on from what he'd learned from last season - which, I believe Lin was led to believe. Sigh. A number of other teams are running the similar system as MikeD, but not the Rockets!.... Still, Lin was blessed to be picked up by the Rockets because the Knicks were planning to use Lin as a trade chip (like the Rockets could be also) - except, unlike the Rockets, they wanted Lin really cheap too.
ztrta: "the Knicks were planning to use Lin as a trade chip"
DeleteI don't know whether that's true (for Paul, I guess), but if that was true, I would have viewed it as a positive.
The Knicks are old, their owner is nutty, and their overpaid stars are not my favorite NBA players. So if Lin could actually leave the Knicks earlier than 3 years, that would have been a good thing.
The promise of the Knicks for Lin was not a career home, but rather superior short-term development in the form of starting PG in a tailor-made role, building on what he did last season, surrounded by veterans, including a HoF PG mentor, playing for an old-school guard-oriented coach, and building up winning regular and post-season reps for a contender.
Lin would only need 1, 2 seasons at most to draw out all the developmental benefit from playing for the Knicks. After that, best be gone and jump off that disintegrating ship. So if the Knicks actually traded Lin early, that would have meant an earlier start for Lin to make his Nashian Mavs-to-Suns (or Hardenian Thunder-to-Rockets) transition to taking over at PG for his new, maybe career, team as a then-seasoned young veteran with proven winner, play-off chops.
Like k.smith, my concern now with the Rockets is not longevity of stay or Lin as possible tradebait, but the Rockets stunting his short-term development.
"the Knicks were planning to use Lin as a trade chip"
Delete- The Rockets may also use Lin as a trade chip. If he doesn't play well, you'll get traded for sure.
Knicks:
- 19 million, able to play PG with a lot of assists because of more competent BIG MAN, better team overall, improves his PG skills , supportive fans
Rockets:
25 million, voted as an Allstar, has friendlier teammates, hides in the corner, gets benched in OT, stunted PG skills because of Disuse , PATHETIC FANS
My only gripe was that the Nits were manipulating to re-sign Lin for DIRT CHEAP - and then trade him for the favors. And when that didn't work out, they did the smear campaign. The whole slimy stuff.
Deleteztrta, don't fall for neph's and Eric's flameboy traps.
DeleteThey're just trying to bait you into discussing their fantasies about Lin so that they can FLAME you.
"Nits were manipulating to re-sign Lin for DIRT CHEAP"
Delete- Evidence?
They were ready to match the 20 million contract
The 25 million is a poison pill for them. It would choke them for sure.
Possibly, Lin can be traded by the Rockets or the Knicks for the likes of Chris Paul.
Let me ask you, will you not accept Paul for Lin + Somebody else ? Lin is a good pg but Chris Paul is on another planet.
All players are not immune to possible trades. Smear campaigns were done by the media. Do you have SOLID EVIDENCE that the Knicks itself did the smear campaign?
If not, then that is just a THEORY and nothing more.
@Eric:
DeleteWhats Lin situation to do with an SNL sketch?
yet, right! the knicks is just saying in the public they are ready to match the 20 ml..who knows?! exactly! Nobody knows! actions speak louder than words!!!!!!! All saying like we will match, we want to match, we actually ready to match is just blah blah blah....
Deleteneph
Delete"Nits were manipulating to re-sign Lin for DIRT CHEAP"
- Evidence?"
- It's a known FO manuever, dirty but not uncommon. TMZ, One Billion Dollars etc, common knowledge [you included]. The fact you'd question this even...
"The 25 million is a poison pill for them. It would choke them for sure."
- You know it won't. You irrationally continue to choose to ignore facts, for some reason. [?]
Smear campaigns were done by the media. Do you have SOLID EVIDENCE that the Knicks itself did the smear campaign?
If not, then that is just a THEORY and nothing more.
- You CANNOT be this naive. [Not an insult, actually vouching for your intelligence, neph.]
On another note, you have an INCREDIBLE amount of faith in JDolan...[Again, you can't be a chump. I'll take the alternative, you are disingenuously nit-picking.]
Great job done by the team! I believe this game will help build more chemistry with Lin n the rockets team!
ReplyDelete"I believe this game will help build more chemistry with Lin n the rockets team!"
DeleteAgreed. The young Rockets are turning quickly into a good, exciting team. But where does Lin fit in their growing chemistry?
We came into this season looking forward to Lin being the Sun around which the Rockets would revolve and draw life. Given how unwilling Lin fans were to give an inch when Lin was a Knick, I'm surprised how willing they now are to concede lowered expectations and a shrinking role for Lin on the Rockets.
By mean Help build up more chemistry, last's game certaintly will makes Lin feel more confidence with his team n feel the support from his team by showing great effort getting this good one! If I were in lin's shoes, at least I will feel that way, my teammates got my back! Great! Maybe it's not the case, but I believe it did n will help change something. N what is that something? I ll say a better team chemistry n trust in the future! Hopefully my feeling is correct ok?! At least that's what I thought now!
DeleteLins role is defined by his abilities and his condition - thats what many people are thinking. They see that JLins is not 100% so they dont ask for Linsanity.
DeleteI would say that JLin has a limited role right now because he is not 100%. Those who claim that Lins role has been taken by the "ballhog" Harden (I dont think he is a ballhog btw) still have to explain why Harden and Lin also let Parsons bring up the ball and initiate offense at times. Take yesterdays game - everyone scored and Lin took the ball to the basket on a few occasions. Sampson liked it and let Lin play. The guys really seem to have built a connection. Those are good signs.
I truly believe that Lin can get his true PG position back if he gets to 100% and steps up. Like I mentioned before - Lin did demand the ball on different occasions and Harden gave it to him. Its all in Lins hands/legs.
Lydia,
DeleteThat's a pragmatic stance given where Lin is now.
It's just disappointing that as a Knick, Lin didn't need to depend on the generosity of his teammates. Whatever they felt about him, Lin was in control at PG. Lin's teammates depended on HIS support, HIS effort, and HIS having their backs.
Now the shoe is on the other foot, and Lin is forced to depend on the generosity of his teammates where once his teammates depended on him.
I agree with you the situation is what it is, and it's what we have to work with as Lin fans. It's just a little hard to stomach given where Lin was last season and what we expected for Lin this season.
Hard to stomach or not, one needs to let go of the past [Since there's no way all the "if only Lin's a Knick" can ever come to anything.] The only thing this pining for this ON-PAPER-ideal [that will never happen and therefore, will forever be impossibly perfect/ untarnished by real-life problems] will do is make people impatient and take a super dim view of reality, which is -> JLin is a ROX.
DeleteJLin in the Rox is a work in progress. His situation is not some unevolve-able sentence.
Btw, the above post was not meant to "censure" your opinions, Eric.
Delete[I just don't understand the good of constantly invoking something that CAN NEVER happen...?] :)
what you saying makes sense to me in some way, but Eric, lin is already over with the knicks. To me, besides the coach thing, everything seems good to me now! Lin is still developing and i agree with what willydilly said too!
Deletevia,
DeleteThe Rockets also fail to measure up to what Lin had with the Knicks last season, under the same coach and core of teammates. What they would have had this season is based on an extrapolation, not just blind faith. It's not just a matter of imagining the grass is greener over there. It's knowing, from actual and recent experience, the grass is greener over there. Unless you believe adding Kidd to the mix would have ruined it for Lin.
Lin isn't going to be a Knick any time soon. That's not my point. The point is how to make the grass greener for Lin with the Rockets, at least as green as it was for him with the Knicks.
That's what I mean, Eric. How is the constant lamentations helping with making the grass greener for JLin WITH THE ROX? [I get the frame of reference.] The Rox cannot replicate the Nyk structure with their existing players, could they? JLin cannot revert back to pre-op JLin. [He is not-100% as his trainer had attested.]
DeleteWouldn't it be more productive to draw up something that addresses JLin and the Rox the way they are constituted NOW? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to discipline oneself and work with what's ACTUALLY AT HAND, as opposed to "what-could-have-beens" [no matter how well-meaning one is in indulging in these imaginings?]
How should the Rox proceed, going forward? Where is JLin in all this [with relation to his not-100% status.]
How should the Rockets proceed, via?
DeleteHouston is doing just fine managing Lin. Jeremy Lin is working his way back into shape. As Lin evolves, so will his role.
It seems to me that Lin has begun to hit his shots. Once he can do that consistently and in greater volumes, he'll steadily receive more touches and responsibility.
That is the way the NBA works not just for Lin, but for ALL players. I'm not being a fortuneteller by saying that, I'm just pointing out the reality of how players develop their roles in the NBA.
This is also what I think, KH.
DeleteI don't understand why people believe things will simply be the way they are [non-changing] long term. It's a process.
via,
Delete"what-could-have-beens" inform what can and should be.
With the Knicks, Lin earned his job because a job was available to be earned. With the Rockets, Lin was hired based on the job he did as a Knick. But then Lin's job was taken away when the Rockets brought in someone else - even before Lin had the opportunity to fail or succeed on his own merits.
So, we need to know, is the Rockets job that Lin originally signed up for available to earn back? Or has it been filled permanently. If it's still available, then Lin can just do his thing until he earns it back. But if it's been filled permanently, then we can hope for a Harden meltdown or for the Rockets to send Lin to a team that has an opening for the same job.
Or else, Lin can give up on the job and adapt to whatever other job the Rockets make available to him. The decision to settle for a different job, however, may set Lin's career course.
Eric,
Delete"But then Lin's job was taken away..."
- or temporarily shifted to another while he works on being a more complete player? :)
"So, we need to know, is the Rockets job that Lin originally signed up for..."
Since we cannot know at this moment, you'd agree it'll be foolish to jump to any conclusion at this early stage.
I agree with JLinfan#1 totally. Here is the deal: NBA players talk and listen. They hear stuff that fans never do. From other players. From coaches. From front office people. From agents. Off the record stuff from journalists. Etc. So, Jeremy Lin's teammates know what went down in New York. They know the real story. So, we can presume that the marvelous effort put forth by the Rockets last night was a statement of support for their teammate and against the Knicks players and organization over how their teammate was treated.
ReplyDeleteFree agency is a part of NBA life. Players come and go all the time. Normally it is no big deal. But last night's game was evidence that what happened in New York was abnormal and was a big deal.
Here is the best part: Lin has totally won over his Houston teammates. They haven't jumped ship on him despite his shooting problems and the way that the coaches are treating him. There is also no jealousy, resentment or rivalry. For example, maybe strip club king James Harden has some maturity issues and character flaws, but he showed up big time last night for his teammate, including helping Lin put points on the board with an assist.
I have made a complete 180 and won't look back. Lin made the right move. Houston is the right situation because his young teammates A) are talented and B) are behind him 100%. This makes me more certain than ever that Harden and Lin are going to master this coexistence thing and form the NBA's best backcourt. As a matter of fact, last night was the beginning of it. Consider that had Lin's minutes not been limited because of the blowout, he may well have gotten to 20 points, some of them coming on Harden assists.
In New York, the city was behind Lin but his teammates weren't. In Houston, the city still needs to be won over, but his teammates are 100% in his corner. Better for the team and organization to have your back than the city.
However happy or unhappy they secretly were while together, Lin has indicated his Knicks teammates supported him in his play. That doesn't necessarily mean they were great guys. It just means they were competitive and didn't have a choice but to support Lin, structurally speaking.
DeleteSo what's better?
Teammates who may be personally unhappy with a big role for Lin for some reason, but are forced to support him on the job if they want to compete?
Or teammates who like Lin - in a smaller role?
Either of ur questions I don't see it apply to the rockets or Knicks. The coach is the one make decision Not the teammates. In nyk we are all know Carmelo has the power to change coach's decision whereas in Houston we might not sure whether james harden has the power. If he did I don't see him as that kind of that guy. Sometimes a person's personality actually can be seen from the way they talk, their appearance, to me I have much good impression of James harden than carmelo.
Delete@Eric:
DeleteJust because Lin's role is smaller today doesn't mean that it will be smaller tomorrow. Look, Lin is nowhere near a complete player. Still less than half a season of NBA starter experience, and that was in 3 different systems under 3 (really 4) different coaches. And he came to the NBA from a small school. Lin has All-Star ability. He just needs All-Star skill. And let us not forget about Harden, a guy with 3 years experience who is new to the starting role. He needs to pick up new skills in order to coexist with Lin also.
Eric, why do you insist on believing that Lin can only be Mario Chalmers because of Harden? Why can't Lin-Harden be Isiah Thomas-Joe Dumars?
Lydia,
DeleteRemember, the G/F combo is naturally complementary. Whatever passive-aggressive diva act he pulled to make D'Antoni quit, the things we know about Anthony is that he doesn't play the point, doesn't want ball-handling duties, depends on a PG to succeed, and his career best has required playing with good PGs (Billups, Miller, now Felton). Anthony is no different than Nowitzki or Durant as an elite scorer who needs a good PG running the offense.
All that means Anthony could flat-out despise Lin on a personal level, but if they were teammates, Anthony's success would depend on Lin's success at PG. SG/C is a different dynamic, but recall that Shaq and Kobe hated each other, but won championships because their games complemented each other. They needed each other to win. Anthony and Lin would have needed each other to win.
In contrast, what do we know about Harden? Unlike Anthony, Harden has ball handling and point skills as a Lin-like combo guard. Harden doesn't need Lin to win like Anthony needed Lin.
From day one, the Lin/Harden G/G combo could have gone in either of two directions. The upside reward way with Harden applying his skills to form a synergic 1-1a G/G combo that shared the load and enhanced Lin's game. Or the downside risk way with Harden pushing aside Lin and taking away Lin's role.
Whether by coaches' choice or Harden's choice, the Rockets chose the downside risk way and pushed Lin aside and took away his role.
In person, Harden may be a great guy who genuinely likes Lin. For all I know, the two of them hit up Houston's clubs and lead CFA meetings together. But Lin's role at PG was protected structurally playing with Anthony. It's not protected playing with Harden.
We can compare the difference.
Eric,
Delete"But Lin's role at PG was protected structurally playing with Anthony. It's not protected playing with Harden."
- Unfortunately though, JLin's PG role in the Nyk is not protected by REALITY. There is no way to get to the place you want JLin to get to, with the Nyk IN REAL LIFE. He has 0 chance.
---
Once JLin hits 100%, it's reasonable to believe Rox coaching staff will modify JLin's [and Harden's] roles.
Unknown: "Eric, why do you insist on believing that Lin can only be Mario Chalmers because of Harden? Why can't Lin-Harden be Isiah Thomas-Joe Dumars?"
DeleteSee my above reply to Lydia.
As you may recall, my initial reaction to the Harden trade was optimistic. You can find it in the archives, but to save time, here it is on my blog:
http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2012/10/james-harden-joins-jeremy-lin-on-rockets.html
My initial optimism over the Lin/Harden combo makes me more critical now because I recognize the Rockets and Harden made a conscious choice from the beginning to diminish Lin's role when they should have used Harden to enhance Lin's role.
So I'm cynical about applauding the Rockets for supporting him in a smaller role when the same people chose to make Lin's role smaller.
It's surprising that Lin fans are conceding the Rockets are justified in shrinking Lin's role and the concurrent lowered expectations. The implication supports the anti-Lin NBA fans who crow that the Knicks were right to let Lin go. If we are now saying Lin isn't physically ready to compete, his skills aren't ready for prime time, and he's better off with less pressure and lowered expectations on a young team, then we're also saying the Knicks made the correct decision after all, and moreover, any win-now team, eg, the Lakers, is better off without Lin.
Wow. We've come a long way in a month.
If Lin had tried his best and failed in the role we had expected for him, that's one thing. But that's not what's happened. The first thing that happened to Lin this season was his role was taken away, and he's been struggling in a poorly defined role ever since.
Parsons and Harden got hot last night. There were no other motivation for their terrific performance. Parsons will not play like that every game. He just happened to play great against the Knicks. Both players perform well not because of the Knicks. There were no stories to be told between Lin and the Knicks.
DeleteThe only story here is that the Knicks didn't match the poison pill contract of Jeremy. The mistake by the Knicks here is that they allowed Lin to test the market. They should have offered him a contract.
The mistreatment was from the media and not from the Knicks. As bone headed as Dolan is, I really can't blame him for not matching. 25 million for 25 games?
Even as a Lin fan, If I'm put in that situation it would be very difficult for me to give Jeremy that much of a contract. Nothing personal.
The Knicks were READY to give Lin the 19 million contract.
The 15 million will suffocate the Knicks' ability to make off-season moves. So, the Knicks indeed made the right decision.
Please listen to @eric, he's 100% spot on. Yes, people hate that he brings up the Knicks but he's on point. You guys don't get it. A G/G situation with two players that essentially play the same way/need the ball in their hands is harder to piece together than what Lin would have had to deal with in NY with Melo. Melo doesn't need the ball the way that Harden needs it; Melo actually relies on the PG. Harden doesn't need Lin to succeed. Harden basically is Lin but with more efficiency, size and confidence. What Harden needs is a defensive minded SG, that can score when needed because his defense sucks balls.
DeleteI don't think the Knicks would have been a good fit for Lin long term and so far, I don't see the Rockets as a good fit for Lin long term either...unless Lin accepts his role as a complimentary piece to Harden/plays off the ball/catch and shoot type of player.
Eric - Have you noticed the knicks going away from high pnr's with Tyson? Don't you think they've gone more iso? Look how lost Prigs looks when he comes in the game, he needs pnr's. Tyson does too.
via,
DeleteLin isn't going to be a Knick at this stage. That door was closed when the Rockets raised to 25/3 and the Knicks folded.
The point I'm making is that the structure that surrounds Lin can either foster his success or limit it. Set him up to fail. Or set him up to succeed.
What Lin both had and would have had with the Knicks is a real-world example of a structure where Lin was set up to succeed. It's a useful contrast with the Rockets current structure where Lin is not set up to succeed, at least not the way we envisioned - a vision that was based on what Lin was able and allowed to do within the structure the Knicks provided him.
The standard of success for Lin is being downgraded by his fans, and I'm just not ready to accept that when the Rockets structure for Lin is to blame.
Citing Lin's success with the Knicks is an apples-to-apples way to criticize the conditions imposed on Lin by the Rockets. But I guess some Lin fans believe the Rockets are right to misuse Lin.
I agree totally with Eric again.
DeleteI'm not even sure if the Rocket players are behind Lin 100%. I suspect they don't believe in Lin. That is reason for Jeremy's diminished role.
Lin needs to accept the fact that he'll play more off the ball. He needs to start watching some Wade films. Wade cuts through the defense perfectly without having the ball all the time.
DeleteI believe jeremy will work hard to deserve his role and I am the kind of person who likes to go with my feeling. and you are right we don't really know anything about Harden yet, but like i said, so far, I have a good impression of him. and the contract thing, Rockets makes the offer, Rockets is the MAN! there's nothing much to say about it! if rockets is bold to make that 25ml contract why can you knicks? You think jeremy lin don't deserve it, Rockets thinks hey it's a good deal why not, they go for it. That is the end of the story. nothing much to say about the contract. if i were jeremy lin, who hire me, who pays me, then i gonna work for them! the one who go hire me is the one who really wants me, despite all other things There's really not too much left to explain or say!
DeleteAs usual, I disagree 100% with Eric and ksmith and neph.
DeleteIt comes down to one simple thing: those guys talk about Lin succeeding on the Knicks and Lakers from a FANTASY perspective, not a reality one.
Eric and neph and ksmith aven't yet learned that there are no "what ifs" in the NBA, and then they get irritated when realists like UnKnown anf Lydia remind them of the REALITY that Lin is paid $0.00000 by the Knicks and has played 0.00000 minutes for the Knicks and Lakers this season.
@khuang but some of you talk fantasy with the Lin/Rockets situation though. You guys keep thinking that once he gets his J back the offense will automatically start including him and he'll be playing PG again. We have seen no evidence of that on a consistent basis. We've seen him pulled out of games for TDouglas and we've seen Harden take on more responsibility in running the offense with each game.
DeleteI'll repeat it again, I never thought Lin was going to be successful longterm with the Knicks/Woodson and I don't see him successful longterm with the Rockets either.
@k.smith
DeleteI agree, the Rockets and the Knicks are not longterm places for Lin. Also not the Lakers.
Pacers is the BEST place for Lin in my opinion.
neph,
DeleteI agree Lin should be more active off the ball rather than just splitting wide and camping out. In the highlights that via posted yesterday, it caught my eye that Parsons is active off the ball and that gives him more touches. I don't know whether Lin isn't moving more off the ball right now due to his choice or his coach's choice. I'm leaning toward coach's orders because Lin was more active off the ball under Woodson last season and it was part of his game at Harvard.
k.smith,
I hadn't thought about it. Hm. I'll take a stab at it:
Felton and Prigioni both know how to run the pick-and-roll, and Chandler is an agile finisher around the basket. Woodson isn't averse to the PnR. So why aren't they doing it? The team make-up may not be right for it.
Prigioni joined the NBA with the tricks and wiles we expect of Team Argentina's starting PG, but he's not a superior NBA athlete at PG. Actually, neither is Felton. Felton isn't a good finisher at the basket. Compared to Lin, he needs more space because while Felton has a better PG handle than Lin, he's not explosive like Lin and lacks Lin's extra gear for quickness to create separation.
Moreover, the Knicks lack the individual offensive firepower to spread the floor and open up the court like they had creating space for the Felton/Stoudemire PnR.
A big selling point on Felton was his PnR success with Stoudemire under D'Antoni. But if memory serves, Stoudemire was doing a lot of pick-and-pop out of that set, which helped give Felton extra space at the basket. I also recall that Felton struggled for a good part of the season doing that. Gallinari, Harrington, Chandler et al were key to the offense as competent triple-threats who spread the floor and opened up the court for Felton/Stoudemire, thus approximating (not equally) the successful formula of D'Antoni's Suns.
Maybe he just looked quicker in that offense, but I also don't think Felton is as quick now as he was 2 seasons ago.
So, the Knicks have 2 PGs with a successful track record running the PnR and a C who's an agile finisher on the PnR. But the C doesn't pop, the PGs need extra space to finish at the basket, and the Knicks lack the multiple triple-threats needed to generate extra space.
Instead, the Knicks have played to Felton's strength as a skilled veteran PG who knows how to pass the ball and run an offense. The Knicks offense has been predicated on better ball movement this season. But when the gameplan breaks down and they need a reliable creative scorer, they only have Anthony and hit-or-miss Smith. Felton isn't a reliable creative scorer.
To answer your question, my take is no Lin. For the Knicks to run an effective PnR with less space, they need Lin's quicks at PG.
Here's the harsh reality for you, ksmith.
DeleteLin's been steadily taking and making more shots. Barring the Chicago game where Lin may have been slowed by Harden's cold virus, Lin's been taking charge more and more. Thus fans like me are seeing Lin getting steadily more opportunities, though you feel differently.
Personally, I don't care if Lin "plays PG" or not. I only want to see him become a complete basketball player who can play on or off the ball. Lin is dangerous with or without the ball.
And if you don't see Lin being successful long termwith the Rockets, then you might want to think about whether being on a Lin fansite is right for you.
@nephelauxetic, the Pacers? Why?
DeleteI don't really care what team he goes to, I just want him to go somewhere where he can actually play PG and flourish. That's not the case in HOU. Even long time, knowledgeable HOU fans on real gm and clutchfans (you know, the ignorant racist site) think it's a mistake to play Lin at SG, and that having him stand around watching Harden do his thing isn't good for Lin/team.
The pacers play team basketball. They have a competent big man in hibbert.
DeleteHill is a better shooter than Lin while Lin is a better floor general.
Eric,
Delete"The point I'm making is that the structure that surrounds Lin can either foster his success or limit it. Set him up to fail. Or set him up to succeed."
- Or see him succeed whatever the set-up? :)
I know you don't believe that JLin is so limited and so circumstance-dependent that he NEEDS some magic confluence of elements in order to make it. He's always made good with what he happen to get.
"The standard of success for Lin is being downgraded by his fans"
- Bcos there's only one way to succeed..? Perhaps JLin fans are simply using a new set of standard befitting his new set of circumstances?
"But I guess some Lin fans believe the Rockets are right to misuse Lin."
- Lol, you just can't help yourself...
---
@ neph
Yes, they should have offered him a contract. They did not. There you go. [Should tell you something about how they see him, though, shouldn't it? A back-up.]
"The 15 million will suffocate the Knicks' ability to make off-season moves."
- You know they could have managed this with the CBA loophole. [The fact that this point keeps getting "forgotten" by everybody should tell you how attached people are to the narrative that the Nyk were hand-tied. No they were not. They simply chose according to their valuation of JLin -> a back-up.]
Rox believed he was worth the money. Nyk, not even from the start.
via, you're WASTING YOUR TIME trying to convince Eric and neph and ksmith to ACCEPT REALITY.
DeleteTheir form of fan fiction doesn't apply to the real NBA. Move on.
k.smith,
DeleteI don't view the Knicks as the best long-term fit for Lin, either. It's about what works better for Lin in the short term in the current stage of his development.
The best thing for Lin was to play 1-2 seasons for the Knicks, then escaping that nutty owner and old ship, having banked all the development from starting at PG in the win-now window for the veteran Knicks and their old-school guard-oriented coach, before the ship breaks apart and sinks from old age.
For the short term, it was a sure thing. Even if Lin had stayed a Knick for the full life of his contract while the team fell apart from age, everything that could go wrong with the Knicks would have only shifted more responsibility to Lin's young legs. I think that would have been good for Lin in the short term, though judging from the Lin fans who approve of Harden's effect on Lin, apparently not everyone agrees.
@Khuang, last I checked, this was a Lin fan site, not a Rockets fan site. So, i'm really only concerned about Lin flourishing/playing PG.
DeleteI'm not trying to argue with you or make you feel bad for believing in what you believe in. Again this is a Lin fan site, we all want him to succeed. It's just that we have different opinions on what should happen in order for him to succeed. That's all.
Just so you know, he hasn't been steadily taking and making more shots...and since he hasn't been consistent, he has not been taking charge of the offense more.
Nov 23 6 - 12
Nov 21 2 - 9
Nov 19 5 - 15
Nov 18 2 - 9
Nov 16 3 - 8
Nov 14 2 - 10
Nov 12 3 - 8
Nov 10 2 - 7
Nov 09 5 - 10
Nov 07 2 - 9
Nov 03 5 - 13
Nov 02 6 - 16
I'm not complaining about Lin being a scrub, i'm disappointed in the way HOU has used him. That's my biggest issue. I trust and believe that Lin will improve his game to become a complete basketball player but I don't trust the Rockets will put Lin in a position to play to his potential.
via,
Delete""But I guess some Lin fans believe the Rockets are right to misuse Lin."
- Lol, you just can't help yourself..."
You're right. I can't help but believe that being summarily removed from a ball-controlling PG role and placed in an off-guard role, that may now be in the process of being downgraded to 3rd option, is a misuse of Lin.
Did I say anything inaccurate. It appears that some Lin fans believe that what I characterize as the Rockets misuse of Lin, based on what he achieved as a Knick, is instead the proper use of Lin, based apparently on a wilful disregard of Lin's achievement as a Knick.
ksmith, guys in the NBA define their roles by what they can do.
DeleteLin this season has been recovering from his knee surgery. While I think he's doing just fine and is recovering at the pace that I expected, he himself feels that he is not 100% yet. Thus Lin playing off the ball is appropriate given that he's still working his way back into shape.
Now if you're worried about the Houston coaches, remember this about Lin's history. He's NEVER played for a coach that liked him in the NBA at first. Some of those coaches have successfully kicked Lin off their team. Every time the coach did that, Lin bounced back stronger and better in an improved work situation. Also, those coaches who kicked Lin out ended up losing their jobs in no small part due to Lin. That's why Lin is COACH KILLA.
The bottom line is that Lin goes as far Lin can go. Right now he can do little more than be a very average NBA player because of that limited knee, or at least that's what Lin himself says. But a healthy Lin is a DOMINANT player, as we saw last year and we still see in snippets.
Add: "- Or see him succeed whatever the set-up?"
DeleteSucceed as what, though? What role are the Rockets allowing Lin to succeed at?
Obviously, if Lin is only allowed to be a 3rd-option off guard by the Rockets, I prefer he succeeds at it rather than fail at it. But I more prefer that Lin be allowed to succeed in a role that's at least as good as the PG role the Knicks gave him.
I agree with Lydia that 25/3 buys some measure of employee loyalty and deference, but I doubt Lin expected he was switching companies for a demotion.
Hey eric, don't you remember how you used to crow that Lin was NOT a point guard but was actually a combo guard who should be used off the ball?
DeleteWell, that's exactly the way Houston is using Lin. What are you griping about?
The irony is that in our previous arguments, I used to argue that Lin was a point guard playing off guard while you would argue that Lin was an off guard playing point guard. Now I'm defending Lin playing off guard for the while you're asking to see Lin playing more point guard!
Eric,
DeletePerhaps some Linfans simply have more patience and maturity to not rush to judgment? :)
It's a progression, there's a bigger picture. Why not wait and see how things evolve, JLin is not even 100%? [You once posited Dolan would have valued his 19mil investment, so why wouldn't Les do even more for his 25mil?]
JLin in the Rox -> completely new set of circumstances that should be judged by a diff set of standards, don't you think? [This does not take away from whatever the Nyk were able to give him last season, but they're inappropriate as comparison NOW.]
oops, the above was a reply to your post @ 10:24 PM
Delete[sorry, keep forgetting to refresh the page.]
via,
DeleteGiven the bloated contracts already on the Knicks, I doubt Dolan would have had his priorities spun like Alexander's by investing 80/6 in a 2nd similar-type guard in Lin's role. Stand-alone, 19+/3 and 25/3 both command respect. But 80/6 dwarfs 25/3 in the same role.
I don't doubt the Rockets will get their use of Lin, but if not in his original role, then as what? Misuse is a form of use, too. Harden isn't going anywhere. If the misuse stretches out to 3 years, then it will define the foundational developmental stage of Lin's career. It will become Lin's new normal.
Lin is meant to be actualized as an NBA player by the end of this contract. Again, as what? Maybe the Rockets will circle back to a synergic 1-1a G/G combo, but that's not the trend we've seen so far.
KHuang,
This goes to the floor-plateau-ceiling discussion and takes us back to the last days of D'Antoni.
Based on Lin last season, his floor is Delonte West if he regresses. His plateau is Manu/(OKC)Harden if he neither progresses nor regresses. His ceiling is Nash if Lin continues to progress as a PG.
Last season, apart from his special fit as a D'Antoni PG, Lin profiled as a versatile SG/PG combo guard who's naturally suited as a game-changing do-everything combo 3rd guard of the Manu/(OKC)Harden type.
By the close of the Linsanity/Secretariat run, the good teams had adjusted to Lin and it was apparent Lin had hit his then-current ceiling as D'Antoni's starting PG. When D'Antoni left with his system, I shared the doubts about Woodson. If Lin's starting PG role was dead and gone with D'Antoni, I believed the best way to preserve a key role for Lin would be either switching to SG or falling back on his natural profile as a 3rd guard. Lin has the off-the-ball chops for either role.
What happened instead is that Woodson proved to be just the right coach at the right time for Lin. He kept Lin as his starting PG, while adjusting Lin's role so that his weaknesses were mitigated and his strengths were preserved, while pushing Lin in the PG-specific areas. Lin's PG role under Woodson included playing off the ball.
By using Lin at PG more conventionally than D'Antoni, Woodson helped push Lin towards his Nashian ceiling. Indeed, this season, Lin has shown the most improvement in the PG-specific areas that Woodson requested: defense, ball handling, and passing. And it stands to reason if Lin was still playing for Woodson, Lin would continue to make progress towards his ceiling.
Woodson showed that Lin's off the ball game can be used effectively without taking Lin out of the PG role. A Kidd/Lin combo would be best to facilitate Lin playing off the ball game at PG. At first, I thought Harden could help Lin play off the ball at PG, too.
But exploiting Lin's off-the-ball game is not the same as moving Lin off the point. What the Rockets are doing to him doesn't help Lin develop towards his ceiling.
More fantasy basketball from Eric.
DeleteListen closely Eric. You cannot do anything to change Lin's role. Gripe all you want, but Lin has to live with his role whether he likes it or not. That's what he's paid the big bucks to put up with.
You can fantasize all you want, and you can even flame people like me that find your Knicks homerism utterly distasteful. It still won't change the REALITY that Lin is a GREAT player that can succeed in the role that the Rockets have assigned him.
Oh yeah. I was totally wrong about the Knicks. They are frauds. Getting Shumpert back will help, but remember that Melo and Stoudemire can't coexist. The Rockets won't win that many fewer games than the Knicks will.
ReplyDeleteI expect:
DeleteKnicks: 55-27
Rockets: 36-46
Aren't you a Knicks fan?
DeleteEven as a non-Knicks fan, I can easily say that they will win 50+ games this season.
Why so negative against your team?
I agree that what happens when Stoudemire comes back is THE big question for the Knicks.
DeleteTheir defense crapped out against the Mavs and Rockets, but I expect they'll fix that.
Their offense was exposed, though, for its lack of a 2nd reliable creative iso scorer. Smith is unreliable. In the play-offs, the team ball movement that the Knicks have relied on will only take them so far, no farther than it's taken the Spurs the past 2 seasons. Play-off teams need multiple creative iso scorers. Problem is the Knicks' 2nd creative iso scorer plays for the Rockets.
Stat can be that 2nd creative scorer.
DeleteTrainer: Lin not adjusted to new system
ReplyDeleteTHX via!
DeleteAll the people who came here just to claim that JLins knee was 100% and that S.A.Smith was right should read that.
"This year, he's going to do his thing, but really wait until he gets fully, fully healthy."
If people claim that Lin is 100% it only shows that they either dont watch the games or that they are blind. They simply cant know better than his friend and trainer.
BTW: I just googled the guy (Brandynn Williams) and he actually appears in one of JLins videos.
Delete@ wil
DeleteYeah, that's what I thought too.
[Someone with an acct post this on CF...not that it'll shut up the LoHs. Still, tired of "not-100% is just an excuse."]
oops, the above reply is to your first post. [I always forget to refresh the page first, smh].
Delete"I think so, man," he said. "What's cool about Jeremy is that he's not really about him. He's not selfish. I think with him and Melo healthy, I think that would've been beautiful, man."
DeleteI agree with that. The Lin/Anthony G/F combo had the potential to be a true dynamic duo, one of the top G/F combos in the NBA. Both versatile, both smart, both skilled passers. It was nascient, rough, but you could see the potential last season with how Woodson combined Lin and Anthony. It would have been beautiful. Moreso with Anthony at PF, they would have opened up options together.
Knowing what Lin could have had with Anthony deepens the disappointment with Harden. The Lin/Anthony combo, Lin/Kidd combo, and Lin/Kidd/Anthony combo had special potential. I thought Harden would bring elements of both Kidd and Anthony into a Lin/Harden combo, and that hasn't happened.
"What it could have been" always sounds better in one's head than the actual reality.
DeleteAfter Lin is fully recovered physically, let's say around late Feb next year or so, he will be able to play a more dominant role in the game, esp when either strip club king James Hardon (borrowed from unknown:) or CP is having an off day, and will again score around 30 points a game on occasion. Just be patient and observe how Lin overcomes the adversities. A new triangle offense is coming to play. It's will be exciting again to watch real Lin in action.
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter
ReplyDeleteGregg'O'Nick @BarreKellyJr
McHale's 22 year old daughter (Sasha) reportedly has died.:
My thoughts and prayers go out to Coach McHale and his family
That is so sad...my heart goes out to his family.
Deleteoh no...I'm so sorry to hear that...
Delete[My condolences to coach McHale and his family]
That is terrible.
Delete:(
prayers out to McHale and family. one of those moments when being a fan impacts your day in a much deeper way than just sports.
DeleteNo. After a pretty good day.... That's horrible. We should pray for Mchale to give him the strenght to go on. I lost my father when i was a teenager and i know how he could feel like... But losing a daughter.....
DeleteI'm sure she'll be next to him and his family for the rest oftheir lives
Parents arent supposed to survive their children. That is so sad.
DeletePuts everything in perspective. Tragic. My prayers to the McHale family.
DeleteWow 22...McHale might not make it back...seeing your child die changes you...I know I watched it change my father when my lil bro passed away at the same age...prayers for the McHale family!
DeleteSince we have a bit of a break between games, and a whopping sample of 13 games, I thought I'd do some mindless digging. What I came up with was pretty interesting, since it is counter to what I had thought (as well as a lot of you, I suspect, so be forewarned you might not like what I'm about to write).
ReplyDeleteSo while the Rox are 5th in offense and 26th in defense, this is only when you look at points for/against. When you take pace into consideration (and the Rox play at the second highest pace in the league, as a young team should) we are... pretty much dead center average in both.
If I were to ask you to rank the Rox players in terms of defense, how would you rank them? Defense if one of those nebulous things to evaluate, but for fun:
Let's look at defensive rating using the methodology at basketball-reference.com. Basically it's points allowed per 100 possessions, and it's team dependent (think of it like a plus/minus). In other words, who else is on the floor with you really matters. The ratings then go like this (I'm cherry picking the players based on my own perceived relevance):
Asik 101
Lin 103
Morris 105
Parsons 105
Harden 105
Douglas 106
So far, this is exactly what my "eye test" would suggest.
If you look at the defensive rating from Synergy, it's a difference picture. I don't know what their exact methodology is, however they break down every play to the detail, so you get data on iso's, PnR, post play, etc. I'll give the rating, and then rank in the league to give an idea of scale.
Lin 0.8 (99)
Harden 0.86 (144)
Parsons 0.87 (154)
Asik 0.92 (207)
So while Asik is great for team defense (if you want to loosely define it that way), he's like the worst one on one.
Oh wait, I guess I left out a couple of guys.
Morris 0.73 (47)
MM is our "best" defender. Remember, though, which unit he plays for and against.
Now comes the best (or at least most interesting) part:
Douglas 0.74 (53)
?!?
I've been looking for some sort of justification for what I will refer to as the OT fiasco. I have refused to believe what others have suggested, but didn't really have an alternative explanation. That Sampson would consider TD a better defender seemed ludicrous, but then again I admit I am biased (which is why I bother looking this stuff up in the first place). Here's the data for iso defense (the main point of contention for Lin subouts):
Lin 0.64 points per play (sample 22)
Douglas 0.55 points per play (sample 11)
So there you have it. I'm not saying that the subouts were the right decision. I am suggesting, however, that considering the Rox are probably far more sophisticated in their sabermetrics than what I have access to, Sampson's decision making is not without merit/justification. Which I'm happy about, since he's starting to grow on me.
Anyways, it's only 13 games, there's a lot of data yet to play out, but as far as team defense goes, to me Lin/Asik are still our anchors until someone can convince me otherwise. For the record, Asik does give up 0.79 points per play on post ups, so he's not totally worthless on his own.
Ugh, just saw the news re: McHale, that's awful. No parent should have to outlive their children.
Thanks for the info nom! Before the 2nd Portland game, weren't Lin defensive synergy stats better than TD's?
Deletei'm not good with stats, i'm just going off of memory from what Torocan shared.
@k.smith
DeleteI think your recollection is good. The thing with stats is, they get more "accurate" the larger your sample size, or in this case the numbers of games played by the player in question. That's why I said this was just for fun. 10 games from now we'll have an even better idea.
The Rox however are known to be a progressive organization and use proprietary stats/methodology. They also know a lot more about what they are doing than I do. I guess my point is that for me, Sampson gets the benefit of the doubt.
For ISO I guess you can say that Lin is typically defending against the other team's main PG, who is usually much better than the backup PG that Douglas is up against.
DeleteHowever, what really got me was how much better Douglas was at defending spot up plays. To me, it says what the eye test tells me it says: Lin helps off his man too much. Lin's opponents are hitting 50% of their 3PA against Lin!
Thanks. My style is intuitive, so I'm always fascinated to see how the numbers stack up.
DeleteI'm not asking for it (of any specific person who might like compiling the numbers), but it would be cool to see how the offensive numbers stack up.
My take on the Blazers OT benching wasn't that Lin is a superior defender to Douglas, but rather he isn't a significantly worse defender (which maybe Lin is, actually, based on the numbers). And if he is a worse defender, then it's by a marginal difference and not worth the cost of Lin's better offense.
So if Sampson uses something like the Synergy stats to make decisions, then maybe he's seeing something in the cost/benefit O/D trade-off that tells him the impact of Douglas's D advantage is worth more than Lin's O advantage.
Kelvin Sampson is a NBA novice head coach.
DeleteAll head coaches, regardless of their experience, will make MISTAKES. Novices like Sampson make more mistakes than experienced coaches do, but experienced coaches are not perfect either. Just look at DAntoni benching Pau Gasol, which is causing Gasol to (justifiably) complain in the papers.
EVERY armchair enthusiast is a genius coach in hindsight. But when the pressure of the game is on and multiple decisions have to be made, it's easy for people to make mistakes.
Lin is a work in progress who is still recovering from his knee injury. While he is still capable of great things, nobody including Lin knows what he's physically capable of doing from game to game. Thus while I'd like to have seen Lin play more instead of Douglas, I also understand why the coaches aren't sure about him.
Though I agree with you guys that a hobbled Lin is still better than a full strength Douglas, I respect Sampson's decisions to limit Lin's role if he cannot consistently deliver steady performances like the ones he had against Utah and NY.
Teams also screen Lin off more than they do against Douglas.
DeleteI can't remember who it was that said that Lin was getting double teamed on defense, but it's true. Lin is getting tangled up in the high pick and roll because opponents know that he will stop people.
This is no different from how NFL teams said that they let Joe Montana do whatever he wanted because they were so much more afraid of his backup Steve Young.
Opponents don't need special schemes to break down Toney Douglas, but they do against Lin. That's why some people mistakenly assume that Douglas is a better defender.
KHuang - re: Lin's poor spot up shooting defence: Synergy has a separate category for shooting off screens and pick-and-roll ball handling defence so that's not the reason for that particular difference between TD and Lin
DeleteHmmm. I might be wrong on this. I went to look at the vids on Synergy and they seem to count it as a spot-up goal against the player who defends the person who gets the assist as well.
DeleteThe Lin vs Douglas defensive debate reminds me of the difference between Patrick Ewing and Bill Cartwright when they were both Knick centers.
DeleteOpposing centers would score big against Ewing, as he was a player with big time ability and reputation. But against Cartwright, people just didn't go at him as hard. This continued after Cartwright was traded to the Bulls, and Cartwright was an excellent defensive center but was no Patrick Ewing.
I don't have any problem with Lin's defense, even if he occasionally misses assignments like ALL great defensive players in the NBA do. Why? Because the Rockets are doing just fine defensively and Lin isn't hurting the team. Lin's no Kyrie Irving who doesn't play defense and thus is hurting his team. Actually, Lin is still the best PG defender I've ever seen in my decades of watching the NBA.
Bashing Lin for defense is just nitpicking and incorrect.
Anybody notice Jeremy's chipped tooth on the post game interview? He said he chipped it on the last play of the first half.
ReplyDeleteEven if Jeremy return to form, Harden will still be the playmaker and Jeremy will continue to play off the ball(basically a SG). Rockets will look to trade him, once they found a better option because Lin is not a SG. I'm sure Morey are considering his option of pairing Harden with free agents SG like Iguodala, JJ Redick, and Ellis.
ReplyDeleteI agree
DeleteLin may improve his shot but he is still forced to play a different role.
Morey is not a fan of Lin. He'll use anybody as trade bait. Morey will find a point guard that is a better spot up shooter. Harden is now the ball handler but he still cannot guard point guards such as Parker, Rondo, Westbrook, Paul, Williams and the like.
As soon as Harden arrived, the whole organization treats him like his MJ and reducing Lin's role drastically. Anyone in Lin's position would have gone bonkers with that sort of treatment.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletestress releiver indeed:) so happy they won ...
ReplyDeleteslightly off topic but just occurred to me that Harden must be keenly looking forward to sending the similar message to his former team as the way Asik and JLin did: they are worth every single dime of the contracts that the Rox offered them, by winning the game against OKC.
ReplyDeleteDon't be too hopeful.
DeleteChicago is different from OKC. Chicago doesn't have superstars (or at least superstars that are not injured). The Thunder have 2. The win against the Knicks was really about Parsons and Harden shooting lights out.
I think Harden will be booed by the OKC crowd.
I don't like Lin's current "role playing" role at Houston either because I know he's capable of so much more. But I understand what the Rockets are doing with him.
ReplyDeleteLet's face the fact here, Lin has so far done nothing offensively as a Rocket to suggest he's worthy of more touches/shots, let alone having the offense run through him as we wanted. The Rockets are just letting Lin to earn his role/touches/shots, not getting force fed anything, just like almost all the other nba players.
Let's take a look at the natural progression of a typical nba rookie (except a few very exceptional nba ready ones like Duncan/Lebron and we have to admit that Lin is not in their category):
Benchwarmer -> Role playing starter -> One of the primary options -> The go to guy
In NY, because of a very special situation, Lin went all the way from a benchwarmer to the go to player in a few games and skipped the other 2 parts to polish his game. But it's clear that Lin's game is not complete yet to be the go to player. Many of his flaws (like shaky ball handling, inconsistent 3 point shooting) are obvious and evident. So here in Houston, they put him back to the "role playing starter" stage. It's very painful "demotion" you might say, but in my opinion this is also absolutely necessary to make Lin to experience every stage to polish skills and make him a complete player. As I turely believe that Lin's ultimate ceiling is "the go to guy", I just look at this as a "1 step back to make 2 steps forward" move!
Also, I look at Chandler Parsons as an example. He was a guy who was role player for a whole last year. Then, he hardly had any plays run for him either at the start of the season. Now after hitting a few shots, he starts to demand and be given more touches and have people talking about him being a potential star/all star. He looks ready to be moving from the "role player" stage to the "primary option" stage. I firmly believe Lin's ceiling is much higher than Parsons. So if this Rockets system can allow Parsons to make this progression, there is no reason that Lin can't do that in the same system.
Bottom line is that Lin needs to attack and shoot the ball better. It's up to him and his play only to change up his role and situation. Right now this process might be painful to watch (especially for those who are used to Linsanity). But this is a test and if Lin can excel through this process, the sky will be the limit for him ultimately,
Good post!
DeleteSeriously, the last thing Lin (and indeed any player) needs is yet another transfer to any team. I also think Lin can develop on this Rockets team. :)
We need be patient and see how things play out this season. Right now I think JLIn's role is being defined in a large part by his not being 100% yet. Once he is at 100% and we can see him do the things he did pre injury, then we can evaluate whether this organization is truly diminishing Jeremy's role on the team.
DeleteGood post. It may literally take 2 or 3 years to see Lin reach this level.
DeleteGood post. It may literally take 2 or 3 years to see Lin reach this level.
DeleteAnd it may take two months or two weeks or even two games for Lin to reach that level!
DeleteHe's had some mini breakouts thus far. The way the NBA works, players ramp up to the big breakout with a string of little breakouts.
I don't see Lin needing 2-3 years to become the player everybody knows he can become. Lin's too good for it to take that long.
I agree. When Jeremy regains his full explosiveness, he will be back to his dangerous self to finish his shots well. He is too talented and to quick to regress as role player.
DeleteBut I agree that Houston had no choice but to let him come back slowly in the current role. He can pick and choose his shots well and before we know it, he'll have a breakout game. Let's hope and pray that the knee situation is not more serious than we think. That's the only thing that is a big question mark.
Great post, Cara. Glad to see some sanity going to bring the Lin-fans back to earth.
DeleteNo problem with what you said. He has been demoted but it will make him a better basketball payer.
DeleteYou actually make sense Cara.
DeleteHe'll need to use pump fakes for often and attack any openings like what D Wade is doing upon the arrival of Lebron. He really needs to rely more on his floaters. He often drives too deep ending up in a missed layup.
Let's be patient and not succumb to a lack of mental discipline ourselves. Panic [diff from vigilance] is for the weak-minded. :)
DeleteI'm sure we all believe, like Cara does, that JLin's ultimate ceiling is "the go-to guy". It's only a matter of time.
Deepest condolences to the McHale family. Sad to hear his daughter passed away today.
ReplyDeleterepost what screen name "bunions60" has posted on ESPN:
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame for any parent to lose a child. Hope he reads her twitter though, saw this posted by her on the 27th.
Sasha McHale @SashaMcHale
The only good thing about being sick on my birthday is spending quality time with my dad. He's lucky I love my @HoustonRockets
Sasha's tweets brought tears to my eyes.
It must be devastating to lose a child for the McHale family. May God comfort and give strength to the whole family in this trying time.
DeleteHer tweet showed how big her heart is to think of her dad when she was very sick. May her soul rest in peace.
Why not resurrect her and bring comfort and joy to her whole family if there is a god?
ReplyDeleteUm, this might not be the best way to prove your point, Tigeramus...
DeleteWhy not resurrect her and bring comfort and joy to her whole family if there is a god?
ReplyDeleteNo class whatsoever.
DeleteJLin up for SI Most Inspiring Performer of 2012 [Fan vote]
ReplyDeleteVoting ends Wednesday, Nov. 28.
Houston Rockets @HoustonRockets
ReplyDeleteRockets recall Donatas Motiejunas from D-League, where he averaged 24.0 points & 9.5 rebounds in 2 starts with RGV Vipers
12:02 PM - 25 Nov 12