The worst part is that this kid claimed to be a "Chinese and Italian", yet he trashed "billion Chinese people". Way to hate your own nation.
Also, I am just glad and proud of our fellow Lin fans (the real ones, not the self claimed trolls) that we don't go around other players forums to tell "Lin is the best", unlike other players' fans (although I doubt that he's even a true Kevin Martin fan, he sounds more like an insecure self and everyone hating troll more lol).
Lol Cant say he didnt, our main guys were out but we didnt have much depth last year plus amare and melo were out. The thing is he cant play that way daily like real stars can which is why i dont understand what you people see in him. I regret him ever doing that for us because his fans werednt ever knicks fans so now they make fun of the knicks thinking he did us some huge favor when really he was just doing his job. He didnt make the knicks, the knicks made him and you wouldnt even know him if it werent for us.
Thats why no one can stand Lin fans. Your be doing the same thing to the Rockets fans once your team starts sucking and people start blaming Lin. Hes a player, every player has to be humble and be critiscized when they deserve it
Don't worry, we Lin fans can't stand YOU either. But welcome to the board anyway.
You're new to this board, plus you aren't aware of Lin's dominance in low minutes in Golden State.
Though you regret that Lin played like a STAR, you're simply gonna have to get used to him CONTINUING to do that. What he did in NY was no different than what he did in Golden State, but he just got more minutes.
Lin was an excellent player in Golden State. Every time he got real minutes, he put up double figures in scoring and made plenty of plays. Defensively, he was #2 or #1 in the entire NBA in steals and blocks per minute. The only thing that hasn't yet carried over to Houston from Golden State is the scoring, and that'll be just fine in the regular season.
The Knicks didn't make Lin. He was already a PLAYER in Golden State. It's ridiculous to say that he owes everything to the Knicks when he was already dominating in Golden State despite his coach hating him.
You think Lin can't be a "star" every day. That's fine, as most people think that a guy like Carmelo Anthony is a "star" just because he can score a lot of points on a lot of shots. But educated fans like me who measure a player's ability by his ability to win or lose games are far more impressed by Lin's ability to carry teams just as he did with NY and with Houston.
I'm an NBA fan, not a Jeremy Lin or Rockets or Knicks fan. It actually doesn't matter to me what fans think about Lin because I only care about the game played on the court. As usual, your youthful projection of your own negative fantasies about Lin fans clouds your view of reality - that I couldn't care LESS about what NBA fans think.
Whatever just because im here, doesnt mean im gonna be the weakest link or something. My opinion is as fair as any beings Ive watched basketball my whole life and am very smart with the game. Anyway I just hope Lin does good with the assists because thats what makes a point guard great. I know he can score. Its setting up your main p;layers like Kmart or Lamb that will make him most useful, you know?Thats why I cant stand when people say amare and melo dont work. That doesnt even make sense, there both forwards. What do people expect them to be kobe and shaq? lol all they need is a good play-making point guard for it to work so they can understand the chemistry and know when to involve melo or Amare on a play, for instance, get amare involved on the pick and roll which one of his best tributes, also passing him the ball in his sweetspots about 1.5 feet inside the 3-point line. a point guard is supposed to know where a players sweet spots are and Lin will learn that about his players soon, its still early. Thankyou for the post
You're definitely not going to be the weakest link here. On this forum, we're all equals. Nobody is better than anybody in this place, except Administration that owns all of us!
The only thing I gently disagree with is that Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony have not been able to play well together so far. I think that's because Amare Stoudemire plays like a slashing small forward with no post up game while Carmelo Anthony plays like a post up power forward with no slashing game! Plus defensively those two players are noncommittal.
I don't think any player in the NBA could get Stoudemire and Anthony to produce at the same time on a NBA court. Stoudemire made strides by training his post up ability with Hakeem Olajuwon this summer, but he's still not going to be regarded a true post up threat until he starts backing guys down and planting himself in the paint. Carmelo Anthony excelled in Mike D'Antoni's free flow offense this summer in the Olympics, but that's not the same offense that Woodson is employing. Plus Anthony is not the same unselfish player on the Knicks that he was in the Olympics.
The only way Stoudemire and Anthony could truly work is if they started playing pick and roll with EACH OTHER. But that's not going to happen, unfortunately.
If you wanted a discussion, posters on here would have been more than obliging I'm sure.
"I was just asking a question and afetr hearing there responses I tryed not to get angry about it." - You ask why JLin is so overrated, isn't that already an implicit put-down? You baited people by putting down JLin against KMart, what's that about? JLin "sucks at ball Bahahaha" but now you want to whitewash what you posted. You were needlessly provocative, why be surprised if people call you out on it?
"im really not a Lin hater, i was just curious" - If you were just curious, you would have asked a real question, not declare he is overrated [as if it's a fact] and tack a question mark at the end. That was not a question. You were pushing an opinion and expecting us to agree with you. Then crying that we're mean when we did not.
"He didnt make the knicks, the knicks made him and you wouldnt even know him if it werent for us." - I don't think you understand the fans on this site, jay mac. People know him from way before the NBA. He led Paly to a state title. When you drop 30 on UConn, people know. Didn't you see people with JLin signs at that Nets game? Don't assume we didn't know about him just bec you didn't.
get their chance in the future, you'd say that too? The fans on this site are well-aware of up-&-coming talents and need no team to introduce them to us.]
"Your be doing the same thing to the Rockets fans once your team starts sucking and people start blaming Lin. Hes a player, every player has to be humble and be critiscized when they deserve it" - But why do you assume it'll be his fault if they do suck? They are a young, inexperienced team.
Let's get pass this. Just know the posters on here are no fools, we know what you did. Anyhow, let's get pass this.
Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen About as intense a scrimmage as you'll see at Rockets practice. Good stuff at Training Camp, Part II. 11:19 AM - 20 Oct 12
Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen This is why media shouldn't judge from glimpses at practices. Sounds like scrimmage so intense because practice so poor, McHale so annoyed. 12:08 PM - 20 Oct 12
Jeremy should be a coach one day and I bet he will now that I think about it. Hes a very smart player. Dennis Rodman would have made a great coach too, he was very smart like Lin, he used to do such smart moves at such the right times, you would think he knew it was gonna happen or something. Hard to explain but I see him in Jeremy, both have intelligient IQ's with the game
I totally agree that both Lin and Rodman would be excellent NBA head coaches.
Larry Bird said something interesting about Rodman. He said that Dennis Rodman was a terrific scorer when he came into the league and that he figured that Rodman would become a Dominique Wilkins level scorer. But then Bird said that somebody told Rodman he couldn't score and so Rodman didn't.
The only problem with both Lin and Rodman as coaches is the same problem that so many star coaches have faced: their transcendent ability to see the game puts them with odds with their less talented players who cannot grasp the basketball concepts that made guys like Lin and Rodman (and also McHale who's struggling with his less talented players) the stars that they are!
Yes, in addition to his intelligence, Jeremy also uses his intelligence to study the game. What's great about about Jeremy is that he makes a conscious effort to improve in response to weaknesses. That will help him understand that players will have struggles and with a willing heart, those weaknesses can be minimised.
Judging from his basketball camps in Asia this summer, it seems like his coaching style will be a patient coach. His in game body language suggests he is demanding and he does get frustrated, but it seems frustration with lack of execution. Jeremy can be very good at mentoring and developing talent which focuses on team awareness.
McHale drove both Kyle Lowry and Goran Dragic nuts with his championship demands.
Yet both Lowry and Dragic enjoyed excellent seasons playing for McHale. Dragic in particular was completely transformed by McHale.
Jeremy Lin is being transformed by McHale right now. McHale is molding him into a championship caliber point guard. McHale is hard on Lin, but Lin HAS to take it if he wants to reach his fullest potential!
All great points and if you guys are still somewhat new to McHale, just wanna let you know the guy is awesome. Watch his and rodmans hall of fame speech if you get the chance, He makes a great coach because hes old school, plus a Hall of Fame player and almost ANY hall of fame player deserves a job with the team. Jordan is an owner but he belongs on the court. Jordan is my favorite player of all time, him and David Robinson. Oh and what I was saying before, Rodman was an intelligient player/ rebounding phenomenon and incredible defensive player{two-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year, and 7-time rebounding champion} but your right, I never understand why he didnt shoot more. I just figured shooting wasnt his strong spot.
Rodman was also a very emotional player whether people knew it or not. He would show his emotions EVERY NIGHT on the court, from fighting for his team-mated to ripping his jersey off lol, he was crazy. Man those were the good days. Im only 24 but I remember them like it were yesterday.
I think Rodman himself chose not to become a scorer.
Rodman started his career backing up Adrian Dantley in Detroit. At the time, Detroit didn't need Rodman for scoring because they had scorers throught the entire roster. Plus, Coach Chuck Daly inserted Rodman all over the court at all 5 positions for defense.
My belief is that Rodman simply became so skilled at his role that he never needed to develop his conplete game.
Seems they got off on a bad start, with McHale screaming at Lowry being out of shape at first practice. Then problem at PG spot when Lowry came back from his infection, and Dragic was playing so well. Rox went onto a string of losses, Lowry felt he was being unfairly blamed for them. The lock-out didn't give him and McHale the chance to get some relationship going.
During the Denver game, McHale grabbed Lowry and pulled him back toward a huddle during timeout [Lowry got so angry he needed to be restrained.]
The 2nd article cracked me up. McHale was criticized for being an "alpha male". I thought that was so cool!
A few posts earlier, I cited that McHale had a whole team of beta males last year and that's why an alpha like him clashed with them. McHale as an alpha was trying to get that disjointed team of selfish betas to get in shape and play together, but those selfish betas fought back.
I giggled when the author of the 2nd article talked about Kevin Martin being a wonderful team player and tha Kyle Lowry was so terrific. Kevin Martin is one of the more selfish players in the NBA and Kyle Lowry should've had his butt in the huddle when McHale grabbed him. No wonder Houston got rid of the malcontent Lowry and is trying to eject the me first Martin.
Kevin McHale this year is the same alpha male coach he was last year. Yet because Lin sets the tone with his team attitude and willingness to work with McHale, Kevin McHale has not complained once about his players failing to be professionals. He'll complain about their inexperience, but that's not really complaining!
Indeed it looks like McHale + JLin is going to turn out great. Very encouraged by McHale's way of doing things. A coach SHOULD be able to do that, expect and demand the best out of his players. He'll definitely appreciate JLin's qualities and will be JLin's staunch supporter.
The rockets haven't been executing a lot of those pick-and-rolls in the previous pre-season games.
Since Lin would probably need a couple of months to regain his full athleticism back, he'll definitely pass the ball to his teammates rather than score as much as he did last season.
The thing that sets Jeremy Lin apart on the basketball court (not just the pick and roll) is his All Star athleticism.
In the NBA, point guards are an incredibly smart bunch of players. They know exactly how to play the game. That doesn't mean that they can physically pull it off, though.
Because Lin is more athletic than most point guards, he plays at a faster pace than most players on both ends. Thus opponents game plan against him more than they do any point guard in the NBA, regardless of what they think of his game.
In a previous thread, Dystopia complained that Deron Williams looked "slow". I told him that he had been watching too many Lin games and that Williams was just being "Williams". To see how Lin's breathtaking athleticism impacts the NBA game, go watch videos of other point guards like Rajon Rondo or Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook or John Wall. You'll see what Dystopia1980 and I were talking about.
Few months ago, while I was still on the lowest point of the basketball game learning curve, I couldn't really tell who are the more athletic point guards, but now I do, and I definitely find many so-claimed elite point guards are slower than Jeremy. Yay!
What you also need to know is that if a "quick" point guard like John Wall or Russell Westbrook is playing "out of control", it's because they are NOT QUICK ENOUGH to get to the spots they want. Lin, on the other hand, plays so quickly that he can get to his spots whenever he wants and that's why he appears so relaxed and even slow when he plays the game.
Analysts say that the game "slows down" for the great players. In truth, those great players are so quick that they don't have to press themselves to go where they want to. Larry Bird looked slow, but he was always one of the fastest players on an NBA court whenever he played!
If you want to see a guy that is 100% equivalent to Jeremy Lin in athleticism, JaneLin7, go watch those Micheal "Sugar" Ray Richardson videos on youtube that people are correctly tired of hearing me write about. You'll notice that "Sugar" even has the same exact moves that Lin does!
You mentioned the 100% athleticism equivalence between Michael "Sugar" Ray Richardson in some of your previous posts. I watched almost all of Mr Sugar Ray's vids available on Youtube...I'm learning, so much from this fan site and from you. Thanks, KHuang.
The reverent way people wax poetic about Sugar Ray is the way people would wax poetic about Lin were he not Asian.
Also JaneLin7, look at Sugar Ray's stats. They are very similar to what Lin would have done had he received more playing time. Sugar led the NBA in steals and assists, and there's a high chance that Lin will do that this year.
Keep in mind that Lin has a higher ceiling than Sugar because Lin doesn't have Sugar's drug problem.
I just can't stand to some of the fans bashing on lin and just can't get it off with lin's turn over when it's only 2 turn overs and the worst maybe more than 5 turn overs. Even star likes Rondo get more than 6 turn overs in recent game and all other super star too. I mean people talk about lin's like it's such a big deal while others not. I think that is really not fair and beyond just simply fair. there's other things lies within it. that explain why some of us lin fans are some times may seem outrages when people talk some thing bad about lin.it's not like we are not critical thinking and we can't take criticism but we want fair criticisms.
Yeah but hes not Rondo. You can't compare them just because of turnovers because Rondo also carried his offense to the championship. I dont think Lin is even that bad with Turnovers so when people say that there just looking for reasons to hate. 4 turnovers aint good but it aint all that bad either. He just needs to get a decent amount of asdsist more importantly then anything. If he averages 8 points a game then fine but atleast get your 9 assists and your be looking good Lin
All he's saying is that to the average fan, Lin doesn't have a resume built up yet and so people are skeptical about him.
I find the average fan's opinion of Lin perfectly justifiable, though I definitely don't agree because of my Moneyball tendencies. And honestly, J mac feels the same way about Lin as I do!
Yes that's what I'm saying, thankyou Khuang. Lin is smart and thats a great thing considering he's a point guard, you want your point guard to have a high IQ for offensive play-making. The biggest thing is learning how to play with his new team, learning his team-mates strong and weak spots on the court. Learning how to take the style of offense his coach preaches and designing his own personalized team chemistry to form his teams identidy or makeup. Lin is young, if there smart, they will keep him around to grow old with them for years to come so after they design there very own style of offense, they will keep it the exact same way. There 1st round picks will get alot better too. As a Knicks fan, I feel sick and disgusted about Amare being injured again. I really hope we get a good new backup PF to play behind Amare as an insurance policy so-to-speak. Im hoping we get Marisse Speights, he'd be a great backup power-forward. Amare has been dragging us down lately, I love him but hes hurting us. Hope he gets better
but I agree with some one above it. I don't want lin fans to put out the phrase like "lin is the best" "lin for the win", because it will get him even more pressure,and the people who want to see him fail is waiting. my advice to lin fans is just simply tell him encourage words. that's what i am doing all the time. I just simply said go jeremy. we r here to support you no matter what. bad times or good times.
If Lin performs like the best, he deserves to be called the best.
Among point guards, Lin has been among the top scorers, passers, and defenders. To my knowledge, no other NBA All Star point guard has outperformed Lin across the board in those areas. So why should guys that perform less than Lin be considered better than Lin?
Were Lin any other color than Asian, people would be calling him the next Magic Johnson. Everybody would speak reverently of his statistical dominance in so many categories and compare him favorably to other players. But because Lin is Asian, he gets criticized and ridiculed. Same goes for us here, particularly those like me who have Asian screennames.
I've long learned that it's better to just call things the way they are instead of trying to sugarcoat them for people who have ill intentions anyway.
I'm not a basketball expert and I watch NBA bcos of Jordan and Jeremy Lin. They are fun to watch. They have a story unlike others who are just another face in the crowd.
For now I enjoy seeing Jeremy play well and helping his team to win. It will be even more special if Jeremy hits the winner. So here goes........
and talk about assist points isn't it also depend on your teammate's shooting skill? when you pass the ball and the person makes the shot then you get points for assist? I am just asking. not very knowledgeable about basketball. if that's correct, then sometimes it's not just the point guard thing. I guess team play, team chemistry is the most critical. even in other parts of life, when people come together, things will be good.
Yep, you are correct. Getting assists is all about getting your teammates open looks and high percentage shots to maximize the probability that they will score. But like you said, if your teammate that you pass to has a wide open look but has a terrible shooting ability, then you could expect not to get an assist.
Lydia Lien: Same thing with turn-overs. A PG may have made a nice pass but if the receiving person could have caught it but did not, the TO goes to the PG. I believe this is correct -- anyone? What's important is that sometimes stats is misleading and inaccurate. However, over a course of one season or one's career, the stats even out. That's the idea. It's like dating: one date can reveal obvious traits, such as one's looks, etc. But if you marry someone based on one date, he or she may turn out to be a psycho. Hopefully, after 25 dates, some truths may be gleaned. I am one of those JLin fans who rather wait for one entire season and even playoff performance before declaring him a great player. I do not see him as an offensive weapon who can create and get off and make his shots at this point in his career, so I predict 12 points, 9.5 assists and 2 steals and 3 TOs PER GAME this season, which I don't think would be an All-star numbers but I think (?) would still be solid numbers. Also, I have to say a lot of so-called "great" PGs do not impress me, except for C. Paul who seems to play solid and great games most of the times and has a good judgment of when to pass and shoot, whereas other "so-called" great PGs such as Westbrook, Parker, and Rondo can have "great" games sometimes and "so-so" games often. I don't even consider Nash "great" anymore from what I have seen, but I can see him have many solid games. I have no reservation saying JLin played "great" last season with Knicks, especially under D'Antoni, but I rather wait for before declaring him an All-star caliber player. However, I have to admit that if JLin does not play well, my excitement of watching him play will diminish. I used to watch only NBA games during Finals, but because of JLin, I followed Knicks and Rockets games. He certainly makes it more enjoyable for me to watch NBA games, and having watched him, I have a new appreciation for how difficult it is to achieve even a solid and long career in NBA. I rather he have a long, solid career than one or two seasons of All-star playing and then get injured and leave NBA. I also love to see players like Battier play whom I consider to have been instrumental in Miami's winning it all last season.
Last season, players CHOSE not to catch Lin's passes.
I don't think it's on Lin when his teammates refuse to come to the ball when he's triple teamed or when they maliciously drop perfect passes delivered right to their hands.
Lin is the exact same passer with the Rockets as he was with the Knicks last year. The only difference is that his guys are catching his passes willingly. Thus Lin's turnovers are way down and will stay down.
@eb5attorney: just out of curiosity, why do you expect JLin to average less points this year than last year? Is it because the Rockets' pick-and-roll won't be as effective because he doesn't have a Chandler-type to work with?
Mainly because opposing teams and players guarding him are aware and wary of consequences of allowing him to penetrate, and because I feel his jump shots we'd some work. Those are my reasons, not because his skills have gone down.
I meant to say "need", not "we'd" in my post above. Also, I believe if Rockets can produce more scorers, it means JLin does not have to score more and help them do their thing. It is true that JLin is the type of player who does not need to shine or take credit and will help other players do well. I say JLin can get 16 points easily IF his jump shots start falling. During preseason games, his poor shooting is making him more hesitant in his offensive attempts; I just wish he shoot confidently even when he misses. Just shoot confidently even if he shoots air balls.
Not Bill Walton @NotBillWalton Please share: Email is circulating about "Twitter Verification". They want to steal your account. Do NOT click. Orignates from: @kevingetem 9:16 PM - 21 Oct 12
Being new to this site, I admire your tremendous work to dedicate to JLin. As a Knicks fan, I was heartbroken when the KNicks did not match him. I am still rooting for him and hope he will develop to a solid and great player as possible.
Finally got the chance to see a few preseason games by the Knicks and looks like they've completely gone away from D'Antoni's speedball offense. Seems like coach Woodson is running the ball through Carmelo most of the time with a few pick and roll plays here and there for Chandler/Amare. Felton and Kidd's roles seem to be very limited and the PG in that system is not given the freedom to deviate much from the plays. Having said that, Felton looked good to me. He's quick, makes efficient passes and protects the ball. I don't expect him to rack up the stat sheet though what with the limitations put on the PG in this system. I think the Knicks are now the team management envisioned when they signed Carmelo and Chandler but had to amnesty Billups who was the true PG they had.
Looking at the Knicks now and the way they play, it's a blessing in disguise for Lin to be with the Rockets. There's just no way he could continue Linsanity under coach Woodson. It's a win-win for both parties actually. Woody would never have been able to institute his style of play what with a fan favorite like Lin on the roster. The fans would be clamoring for Lin-ball over Melo-ball and ultimately, that's not good for team chemistry.
Well, Linsanity wasn't going to happen in New York because the veterans on that team weren't going to play second fiddle to a rookie, nor should they have. The people who tried to make that fact into a racial\ego\selfishness\diva thing just weren't interested in anyone else's perspective but Lin's. Which is precisely why the point "I think the Knicks are now the team management envisioned when they signed Carmelo and Chandler" is so important. The idea that they were going to throw all that away to build a team around Lin was unrealistic. The only reason why it was even taken seriously is because of Melo's unpopularity.
Running the ball through Melo most of the time is what should happen. He's their best offensive player, and one of the best offensive players in the NBA. The question is whether Melo is going to be selfish or pass the ball. "The fans would be clamoring for Lin-ball over Melo-ball and ultimately, that's not good for team chemistry." Again, this would have only happened because Melo is so unpopular. But Melo has only himself to blame for his lack of popularity. People would have only been clamoring for the return of Lin-ball had the Knicks been losing. Had they been winning, no one would have said a thing.
As for whether it is a blessing in disguise ... it is whether it is better to be the #2 player on a very good team versus the #1 player on a mediocre one. There is also the factor of playing in New York, a city that loves pro basketball, versus in Texas, where pro basketball comes behind pro/college/high school football and pro baseball, and where the Rockets aren't even the most popular NBA team (the Spurs are followed by the Mavs).
Also, just because the Rockets are Lin's team doesn't mean a return to Linsanity, by the way. That's not Kevin McHale's thing, really. He'll adapt to Lin's talents, obviously, but will still be a long way from D'Antoni. People are going to have their own opinions, but if several months from now the Knicks are burning up the NBA and the Rockets are struggling to break .500 and get into the playoffs, we'll see.
Unknown was trying to say JLin was almost like a rookie in terms of having played less than an entire season of games. He makes some good points in that there was no way Knicks were going to allow JLin run the show, especially D'Antoni left, so what has been good for Knicks is good for Houston. The only thing I disagree with the Unknown's post above is that I do not believe that Knicks will be burning up NBA, although Rockets might be struggling to break .500. It could happen but somehow I don't think so.
It's STILL a flaming INSULT to call a player who's endured three training camps, D league demotions, brutal hits from bounty hunters, team mutinies, and nasty tabloid driven contract negotiations a "rookie" who's never endured any of that and likely never will.
Similarly eb5attorney, I have a big problem with YOU for siding with Hater Unknown against your own people on the racial issue. How dare you trash your fellow Asian Americans by agreeing with Unknown that guys like me follow Lin only because he's Asian? I have a HUMONGOUS problem with you, just like you have a HUMONGOUS problem with me.
Throughout your time here, you have been consistently dismissive of Lin and his fans. You don't fool me or anybody else here.
I have just seen a video about Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson and I'll admit they have a number of similarities. The most obvious similarity is their nose for the ball when defending the passing lanes. They can easily lead the league in steals provided they play starter's minutes. Second, both players tend to make a very deceptive and quick hesitation move that freezes and leaves the defender. They have very incredible acceleration. Third, their ability to finish in the basket despite the contact or multiple defenders is beyond average. However, I'll have to say that Michael Richardson has the slight advantage in terms of speed/quickness. I'm not sure about that but that is based from my estimation.
But I did not see enough videos on pick-n-roll plays so I couldn't judge him there. Now, I'll reiterate what I said before that when it comes to pick-n-roll plays and pure craftiness, Jeremy reminds of Ginobli. I'll agree that Ginobli is less athletic and not really a floor general but both players are capable of using different angles in driving to the basket despite minimal space. They both split the pick-n-roll at will. I've seen both players change direction when driving to the basket due to multiple defenders. Despite the multiple defenders, they are still able to release a decent shot.
By the way, I cannot compare Richardson and Lin in terms of their court vision since there are very limited videos about Richardson's highlights (most are scoring highlights).
Sugar played in the era of illegal defense where man to man defense was really the only legal defense. At all times, defensive players had to shadow the player with the ball. Thus in the 80s, Sugar faced far easier defenses than Lin faces today.
If Lin played in Sugar's era, he'd BE Sugar. If Sugar played in Lin's era, he'd BE Lin. Nonetheless, there are significant oncourt differences between the two players even though they're made of the same basketball "stuff".
You made excellent observations, neph. I get the same impression from the video highlights that Sugar has slight advantage in physical attributes (speed/quickness, 6'5" vs 6'3" height) and explosiveness to the baskets, which should help him in rebounds and steals.
Quick look on the stats in the 2nd year seem confirmed that Sugar has better steal rate (3.0 vs 1.6), rebound (5.6 vs 3.0), and assists (8.2 vs 6.1) but Jeremy has better 3PT5 (32% vs 25%). Everything else (FG%, FT%) seem to be the same. Interestingly, the block rate (0.3) is the same although Sugar should have more advantage being taller.
IMO, Sugar definitely has more physical gifts and perhaps better scoring/assist/rebound than Jeremy but Jeremy's greatest attribute might be the knack to make everyone around him better and win the games plus the ability to stay away from off-court distractions such as drugs, women, laziness.
IMHO, I think Jeremy's highest ceiling would be a player like Magic with great playmaking abilities plus Sugar's ability to get into the rim anytime to score. That would take 4-5 years.
People has said 25 games are too small for a sample size but we know as fans that he has a track record from high school (won championships vs. Mater Dei w/inferior teammates) to college (against D1 colleges w/ inferior teammates) to NBA (Linsanity streak w/ OK teammates) to shine during big games when the spotlight is the brightest.
People keep underestimating Jeremy Lin and he keeps proving them wrong. And we get to watch how he leads Houston Rockets to make his teammates even better.
Yeah, mine too. With all due respect to admin, I did not use foul language, and what i wrote regarding allowing dissenting views to be heard was deleted, and so were the subsequent responses to it. Was there a reason why? I always wondered why some posts are deleted?
I just need to address this, less people think haters coming onto this site is just a figment of the imagination. You see people popping up out of nowhere to bash Linfans here all the time.
[@Linsanity 2.0 starts on Halloween and @wilc mentioned this nutjob on the Grizzlies game thread]
His earliest vids on JLin from Jan 22, 2012 on, where he rallies JLin-haters to visit this site: "Watch as Jeremy Lin stinks it up on the court. Asian fanboys are still crying about it! For even more comedy, check out the cesspool of Jeremy Lin fanboys! LMAO! http://www.jeremylin.net/"
He tries to involve Clutchfans and make it some kind of RealGM/ Clutchfans vs LOFs thing. [The vid they were referring to have been replaced by a new one.]
"LOFs and Apologists are probably real mad right now since they can't face the TRUTH. Shout out to all the TRUE Warriors and Knicks fans who keep it real on REALGM and called out all the Lin fanboys! Another shout out to the Rockets fans on Clutchfans, especially Apollo33, GlenRice, and Sigmund for telling it like it is. Nicknames for Lin: Taiwanese Turnover and Chinese Chucker, since he's both! HAHAHA" [Even Clutchfan-ers SMH at the hate: "Lin=the only player to have both highlights and lowlights posted after each and every game."]
Not only does he continue to reference JLin's ethinicity, his comments on Chris Tang: "The next Jeremy Lin, Chris Tang #5 current Asian High School basketball player from China, certainly could be the next Jeremy Lin! Breaking his team's records in the category of turnovers!" ---
Just to be clear, it has nothing to do with this nutjob's ethnicity, but everything to do with his own damaged way of thinking. A person so full of hate. It was never about basketball.
The guy has some sort of strange pacific islander not Asian thing going on. I could care less what he considers himself, not that anyone even cares but the hate filled movement he is trying to rouse is crossing the line. Linking this forum is asking for trouble.
This guy is just trolling. I mean he shouted out to GlenRice? I signed up at ClutchFans in December and then went back in February during Linsanity. This guy GlenRice had the most hilariously epic meltdown. If you have like 15 minutes to kill, I'd suggest perusing through this.
By the way, thanks for linking to my article earlier.
I cannot imagine the back story which explains why these people spend so much time bashing others. Just cannot imagine it! It's one thing to passionately defend why you think JLin is inadequate, it's another when you genuinely seem to be bothered by his success.
@Linsanity and Aidsbike I think you guys are just jealous that he aint talking about Lin like that. Ive seen Linfans jump all over me because I was talking great about Kevin Martin. They litterally called me every name in the book and then ended it with "Hater!" lmao, all because I was talking great about one of Lins teammates and not Lin. They want Lin to get ALL the attention and claim hes the face of teh Rockets franchise when he is NOT.
With that said, I changed my mind about staying because 1. I dont belong here, I thought there was good basketball discussions when really theres only Lin discussion which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is. and 2. Khuang has been the only nice guy here to me, hes treated me with respect and hasnt attacked me like yall and I think he deserves recognition for that becasue hes an awesome nice person and a REAL basketball fan. And the Rockets are going down 2m against a pittiful team yet the Hornets have more talent then the Rockets. Let see; K-mart, Lamb...and K-mart, oh wait, I already said him
So let me get this straight, you think that troll is right? You don't think he's doing anything wrong? I just want to be clear. ---
"Linfans jump all over me because I was talking great about Kevin Martin." - You did not JUST talk great about KMart. You devalued JLin while pretending to praise KMart. You are obviously butthurt about the attention JLin gets and can't see pass this aspect.
"They want Lin to get ALL the attention and claim hes the face of teh Rockets franchise when he is NOT." - We don't have to "want" JLin to get all the attention. He ALREADY gets all the attention, and IStheRox'sFOTF. Doesn't it just kill you inside?
[On another note, your envy keeps you from seeing that not everybody is happy about the pressure all this attention will bring him.] If you're not envious, WHY DO YOU CARE? WHY DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO COME INTO A JLIN FAN SITE TO SET THE FANS "STRAIGHT?" Does it just stick in your craw, whenever you see reporters falling all over themselves to ask his opinion, take his picture? Was it the GQ cover that drove you over the edge? I hope you brace yourself for the 60 Minutes profile, then. :)
"I thought there was good basketball discussions when really theres only Lin discussion which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is." - This is a JLIN FAN SITE, we will talk about JLin [lol, what did you expect?] We feel so ashamed we're not up to your basketball-discussion standards!
- "...which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is?" - SMDH...
2. I agree KHuang is awesome. AND VERY PATIENT with you. [But dude, don't insult him by thinking he can't see through your game. Your passive-aggressive crap is just all over the place.]
I wasn't talking about Lin fans on here. I meant on ESPN one time, after a game(i forget which one) I said how good Martin polayed and Lin had a bad game so he was obviously butthurt and jealous that Lin couldnt be getting attention like Kmart was so he went nuts on me lol. People are a joke. Ever since Lin, we have had numerous people from all over try to become basketball fans over night and they drive real hardcore B-ball fans crazy with there actions
Well, there WOULD be people like that. But you can't generalize JLin's fans ["one billion Chinese"] bcos of the behavior of some guy on the ESPN comments section.
WHY NOT TALK BBALL, jay? The posters on here are very knowledgeable, you'll enjoy it. But we'll also be talking 24/7 about JLin, bcos this is a JLIN FAN SITE.
Just to be clear, like the regular posters have repeatedly said, even haters are welcome to post on here. But its unfair to expect Linfans to just sit and take their BS. They can sandwich their crap in between seemingly-reasonable posts all they want, Linfans are well within reason to call them out if they're being shady.
He's a basketball player, not a family member. So why is anyone who doesn't worship Lin and think hes god on the court, considered a hater? Lets be fair, it was my opinion on his skills that made me a hater. Then you attacked me. So dont justify that and try to spin it around making you look like the victim and me the bad guy because its bullshit. And it was a fair opinion considering he hasnt proved anything yet
Why do you think we "worhip" him? Bcos we don't agree to have you disrespect him [and us?]
You think asking: "why is Lin so over-rated?" is not being a hater? What if I go to your place and ask you: "Why are you so stupid?" It's just my opinion after all, based on your grammar and spelling. [Just to be clear, I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE BY THESE. But some people do, and I could too. Let's just take this as an EXAMPLE.] You have not proven your intelligence to me after all, and I'm free to have my own opinion.
But how would you have felt if I came up to you and said that?
If you really wanted a discussion, you could have asked a straight, far more simpler question. You could have asked why we admire JLin so much, then elaborated on the weaknesses you think he has [and no one is denying he has them.] No, you come into a JLin fan site and posted a convoluted "question" that took-for-granted that he IS overrated, a question you SURELY know would provoke a negative reaction. Then you cry "waa, you're being mean!" when you are called-out for it. Dude, noboby is spinning things but you. Us trying to look like victims? Isn't that YOUR game? We do not subscribe to victimhood here, sorry.
[So, if you're a Nyk fan, what is all this: "Lin so meh, but KMart is whoa! Lin crap, KMart wow! Lin suck at ball bahahaha!" And before you spin this into KMart bashing, dude, you will not fool people here into bashing KMart.]
The posters here engaged [indulged] you bcos that's what enlightened adults do: They give you the benefit of the doubt, they try to get pass things, they resolve by logical, peaceful discussion.
As for me though, I'm just via and I don't care to be respectable. I'm the petty person who will harp on every little point of incongruence in your posts. Just so you know. :) ---
It's really insulting you think you can spin us around, turn us against each other. Not gonna happen. Your passive-aggressive crap, not gonna fly.
First of all i have a higher degree in school than you ever will probably, I just type fast but if you were to say that, that would make you a hater because your insulting me. Me talking about Lin as a player regardless if I say he's great or he sucks, it doesn't make me a hater because he is a basketball player. Im not saying he's a bad person. And Lin doesn't give a shit about you anyway you crybaby. Lin had an amazing game last night LMAO, all 3 of our knicks point guards played better then him in less time too. Lin in 31 mins- 2 points, 6 turnovers and 5 assists? Bahahahha omg you people are so biased, you love him because he's chinese. If he was a black guy, you would think he sucked then
Education does not = Intelligence. And in case you haven't notice, I was just using the phrase as an example, I don't really think that. If you felt insulted, then you would understand how insulting your first post was -> the thing we called you out for.
I used your exact template: You asked - Why is JLin so overrated? I merely substituted - Why is jay so stupid?
If somebody came to your place, and said that, wouldn't you react? [Why would you expect us not to?] If this person then makes disingenuous claims of innocence ["I was just asking a question! You're so mean!"] wouldn't you feel even more insulted? What, is that how stupid you think we are that we can't see through the ruse? People here will politely give you the benefit of the doubt, but make no mistake, they know what's up.
"Me talking about Lin as a player regardless if I say he's great or he sucks, it doesn't make me a hater because he is a basketball player." - Stop with the strawman. The reason we called you out -> all about your motives in coming onto this site. You came to hate on the fans here: "WHY IS LIN SO OVER-RATED?" is a pre-meditated question full of malice. No one constructs a question like that without some mal-intent.
"And Lin doesn't give a shit about you anyway you crybaby." - FFS, jay, this is just...JUVENILE. SMH.
'Lin had an amazing game last night LMAO, all 3 of our knicks point guards played better then him in less time too. Lin in 31 mins- 2 points, 6 turnovers and 5 assists?" - It's the preseason, genius. - If you're a real fan, then you'd know every player gets into a shooting slump once in a while. - The team has more than 10 new players trying to gel, McHale is experimenting, and JLin is still in the process of recovering from the surgery, why would he want to re-injure himself?
[Hey jay, I hope Chandler recovers from his own injury himself. It'll suck if all this bad karma comes back to bite the Nyk. That's how Karma works you know.] :)
"Bahahahha omg you people are so biased, you love him because he's chinese. If he was a black guy, you would think he sucked then." - Jay, only a racist thinks this way. Are you a racist? Bcos for a racist, the reason is always RACE.
VIA EVERYTHING and I do mean EVERYTHING that you say makes no sense., not in this caase anyway. You say keep it basketball related but I dont think you know what that means. Your saying its the same when you call me stupid? Lmao hes a sports player, go listen to the radio when they talk about a player whos been performing badly, they cqall him out on it. Its what keeps them humble. You take it personal and insult ME, like im making fun of your family member or something. Your pathetic and you feel like you hafto stick up for him even though he HAS been not a very good point guard. Last night he wasd just bad, all out bad. And that makes me a hater to you although its the truth. I hate Lin, hes never done anything to me. But this called sports talk so if you insult me again im gonna call you out on it you little coward. I think your just insecure because you know hes nothing special AT ALL. And your calling me racist? Im not racist, your just biased because you wanna see an asian man do good and you know it. You dont like Lin for his skills, you like him for different reasons because if that were anybody else you wouldnt like him like I said. Not to mention I have chinese in me you dipchit. I said he doesn't care abnout you because im talking sports here and you start insulting me like your in love with the guy. HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here./ I know you wanna see him succeed and can respect that, theres nothing wrong with that. Its loyal and honorable of you. But the act it I have no problems with the guy at all, im just speaking on what I have seen so far from him, if he cant get it done in the pre-season he wont do much better in regular season and he DEFFINITALLY wont get it done in the playoffs. What you should have said back was "Hey jay, maybe its his injury he had that is holding him back from his shooting", and I doubt that's the case but regardless its a fair point and it's keeping it sports talk. Dont care a random stranger an idiot because its irrelevant and you dont know me. Your trying to hurt my feelings with lies because the truth that im speaking is hurting your feelings, well then you shouldnt be involving yourself with sports because thats the case and it has nothing to do with Lin personally
Oh and Knicks get karma for what? Not re-signing Lin? God you are a joke. You are a joke, you know that? You wouldnt even knbow Lin if it weren't for us. Rockets cut his ass. And he had 12 good games then gets hurt because hes skinnier then a twig, he doesnt deserve 25 million for that, FACT. And thats just sports talk ad well. Its a business. You are sincerely crazy if you think Lin deserrved that. However, he may not have deserved a loaded contract like that but I do think the Rockets were the right team for him because there in rebuilding mode, whereas we want to win now.
"Your saying its the same when you call me stupid?"
- I'm saying you don't come into a JLin fan site and the FIRST POST out of you is WHY IS LIN SO OVERRATED, and you expect not to be called out. You keep saying we were hating on you bcos you were complementing KMart and not "worshipping" JLin. Wrong. We called you out for that TROLL POST. Then you insulted the entire PRC population ["one billion chinese"] by basically implying they are racists who will only support JLin for nothing but his race.
Just to be clear, I DON'T THINK YOUR STUPID. For crying out loud, I said that over and over, and still you don't get it. I was just mimicking you to let you understand how incendiary your post was. You claimed to have a higher education than me, how can you not get this? I was not insulting YOU, it was an ILLUSTRATION. [You're the one taking this personal.]
"Last night he wasd just bad, all out bad. And that makes me a hater to you although its the truth." - This thing started before last night. What's last night's game got to do with this. You were crying all over the site accusing us of unfairly calling you out, well we have reasons to do so: It was your FIRST POST, where you basically just went "WHY IS LIN SO OVERRATED, Lin crap against Kmart, Lin sucks at ball nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING FACTS. Then you went on to insult the Chinese. THEN you try to justify your churlish behavior by saying you're half-chinese [So TFW?! Is that supposed to make OK your blanket statements on an entire population that were based on nothing but their race?]
"I hate Lin, hes never done anything to me." - No, hate is not what you feel for JLin. That's for us fans. Isn't that why you came here? Isn't that why you asked "Why is Lin so over rated?" [Yea, I'll keep posting this. I'm not letting you strawman out of this.] You came here to bash US. What do you care how we are? Why seek us out, just so you can mock us, insult us? Then turn around snd call foul when we call you out?
"But this called sports talk so if you insult me again im gonna call you out on it you little coward." - I'M the coward? Weren't you the one hiding behind the legs of the other posters on here: "Waa, they're so mean to me! I was just asking an innocent question!" SMH.
"You dont like Lin for his skills, you like him for different reasons because if that were anybody else you wouldnt like him like I said." - Jay, you will find people who like BOTH his skills and his other qualities. So? And who are you to set the rules on how people should be fans? [I'm tempted to direct you to some fangirls' site and just have you go through a meltdown just for fun, lol.]
"Not to mention I have chinese in me you dipchit." - Stay classy, man.
"HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here." - This is a JLIN FAN SITE so learn how its done around here.
- Oh, and are you trying to show me up for being a lowly immigrant? Just...wow.
"if he cant get it done in the pre-season he wont do much better in regular season" - Like how the Lakers won't get it done since they're 0-7, right? Why would JLin force himself and risk re-injuring his knee for PRESEASON games? o.O
"What you should have said back was "Hey jay, maybe its his injury he had that is holding him back from his shooting" - I SAID THAT.
"Your trying to hurt my feelings with lies because the truth that im speaking is hurting your feelings" - I was trying to get you to UNDERSTAND why you were called out.
"Knicks get karma for what?" - Aren't you part of KnickNation? Nyk get Karma for what you are doing now, coming here to bash people who have done nothing to you. I don't care what that guy at ESPN did, that wasn't us. The media created the hype, that wasn't us.
"You wouldnt even knbow Lin if it weren't for us." - Why do you keep saying that? YOU didn't know Lin before, we did, lol.
"Rockets cut his ass." - So? The Nyk was going to cut him that week too. D'Antoni DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME.
"he doesnt deserve 25 million for that, FACT. And thats just sports talk ad well. Its a business. You are sincerely crazy if you think Lin deserrved that." - Lol, the most important person thought he deserved 25mil, the person who's actually paying the amount.
" I do think the Rockets were the right team for him because there in rebuilding mode, whereas we want to win now." - And he would have been a great piece to have towards that. They were blowing out teams, before his knee happened.
Do you want him on the Nyk? Is this what this is? Why come in here all butthurt, lol did you think his fans had something to do with him being out of NY? What power do fans have? I don't hate the Nyk, I hate what your FO did to him, how they continue to smear him. If your FO showed him some respect, if they would have given him an offer before FA, HE WOULD HAVE STAYED. HE WANTED TO STAY.
I can see how it can be annoying for a Nyk fan to have to deal with some Lin fans going off about JLin being GOAT or something. Some people are angry with what the Nyk FO did to JLin and maybe they bait Nyk fans on other forums.
To put it simply, though, I called you out FOR YOUR BEHAVIOR to us fans here, not your opinions on JLin.
Do you think you're the first person to think JLin is over-rated? but do they go onto JLin fan sites to troll and bash his fans? Why hate on fans who have done nothing to you? Then when you were called out, you try to turn it around to us bashing you, instead of standing by your initial behavior. [That's how I'd expect a man to be, you see. I grew up respecting the men in my family: They taught me that a man is born with dignity, and it is beneath a man to run away from his deeds.]
And I was not trying to insult you. Since you kept misunderstanding what you were called out for, I tried to show you how offensive your post was by basically imitating your post.
You say I'm biased and want to see an Asian man do well, that's why I support JLin. That's not it. JLin's success DOES NOTHING for asian men like those in my family, who are short [shorter than me], slender, un-athletic, quiet men working quiet jobs. I look up to them, and I wish JLin's success would improve things for them, but it wouldn't.
As for sticking up for JLin: True, hearing people bash JLin, it's as if it's my own brother they're doing that to. You know people wrote "traitor" on his GQ cover in NY? Why do they continue to believe that?! The Nyk wouldn't give him an offer, they told him to test FA! You kept saying "if it weren't for the Knicks" like we should be grateful, he should be grateful. Be grateful, be grateful, for what?
The poster @Unknown gets into a rage everytime we complain about unfair treatment, as if that's too much to demand. The ungrateful immigrants, right? We're already being given more than enough, why can't we be satisfied already, right? How dare we demand to be equals, right?
You said: "HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here" bcos Lin fans = chinese from China, right? [Ironic to be identified with them, since I myself have had some troubles with the chinese from China, but I guess to people like you -> we're all from China.]
Wow, looks like you missed me lol, sry yesterday was a special day for me. 1 year since a loved one passed away. Anyway, I have a question. how do i post on here without replying to comments? And did you see Lowry's game against the Grizz? That dude can play man. Wow. Oh how you feel about this Harden trade? I dont like it man, il be honest I sincerely dont like anything the Rockets have done. I dont even get most of it. Maybe it's just me, maybe basketball is evolving, the games changing.. I dont know
Ha Seung-Jin. Now he was a real asian player. Ugly as all hell buthe was fun to watch and aggressive at center. And Yao Ming of course. Why Lin? Lin so over-rated its sad, he sucks. You just watch...
He is an underdog that has been under-rated for so long. If you watch all of his games, his quickness and basketball IQ are absolutely amazing.
ReplyDeleteHe is not famous just because that he is Asian only. It is the fact that he can play the game of basketball.
[Dove Awards] Lecrae on JLin
ReplyDeleteHard Knock TV : Lecrae talks Jeremy Lin, Christian Rap, Lupe Fiasco, Kendrick Lamar, J Cole
7:37 Talks about JLin
Lecrae - Tell The World ft. Mali Music
Delete@1:31 - JLin [1 sec]
JLin about music:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BHqw-h2Rus
JLin singing and dancing:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pKCZhKsXgVU&feature=fvwp
:)
DeleteJLin interview and Dougie @ Kollaboration SF
JLin dancing the Macarena @ Rockets' open practice dance-off
Pretty funny stuff.
DeleteChandler Parsons was the best dancer of the bunch. He was actually GOOD!
And now we know why they are basketball players and not dancers.
DeleteThey do try...lol
DeleteShaq, LeBron, D12 haha
DeleteWow never seen that dance-off. Impressed.
DeleteBig guys + co-ordination = talent
haha .. Jeremy's dougie was much better than his Macarena.
DeleteMaybe hanging out with Parsons will teach him some secret dance moves.
This is a JLin fan site. GTFO haters!! Admin please ban those f*cking troll before a bloody racial war starts. JLinfan#1 do something!!
ReplyDeleteNah, let's WELCOME them.
DeleteThis forum is here to share, not divide. People are watching and are learning.
When somebody posts here, they just have to be able to face the consequences good or bad.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteThe worst part is that this kid claimed to be a "Chinese and Italian", yet he trashed "billion Chinese people". Way to hate your own nation.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I am just glad and proud of our fellow Lin fans (the real ones, not the self claimed trolls) that we don't go around other players forums to tell "Lin is the best", unlike other players' fans (although I doubt that he's even a true Kevin Martin fan, he sounds more like an insecure self and everyone hating troll more lol).
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePitty is for free. Envy must be earned. Man is JLin a hard working and successful man :)
Delete... you can tell by the number of haters...
DeleteThat troll is not Chinese [the Chinese spits him out!]
DeletePeople are truly threatened by JLin.
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DeleteGood. You're back.
DeleteUnfortunately, the "not good" Lin came in and saved the season for your Knicks. It hurts so good, doesn't it?
Poor YOU!
Lol Cant say he didnt, our main guys were out but we didnt have much depth last year plus amare and melo were out. The thing is he cant play that way daily like real stars can which is why i dont understand what you people see in him. I regret him ever doing that for us because his fans werednt ever knicks fans so now they make fun of the knicks thinking he did us some huge favor when really he was just doing his job. He didnt make the knicks, the knicks made him and you wouldnt even know him if it werent for us.
DeleteThats why no one can stand Lin fans. Your be doing the same thing to the Rockets fans once your team starts sucking and people start blaming Lin. Hes a player, every player has to be humble and be critiscized when they deserve it
DeleteDon't worry, we Lin fans can't stand YOU either. But welcome to the board anyway.
DeleteYou're new to this board, plus you aren't aware of Lin's dominance in low minutes in Golden State.
Though you regret that Lin played like a STAR, you're simply gonna have to get used to him CONTINUING to do that. What he did in NY was no different than what he did in Golden State, but he just got more minutes.
Lin was an excellent player in Golden State. Every time he got real minutes, he put up double figures in scoring and made plenty of plays. Defensively, he was #2 or #1 in the entire NBA in steals and blocks per minute. The only thing that hasn't yet carried over to Houston from Golden State is the scoring, and that'll be just fine in the regular season.
The Knicks didn't make Lin. He was already a PLAYER in Golden State. It's ridiculous to say that he owes everything to the Knicks when he was already dominating in Golden State despite his coach hating him.
You think Lin can't be a "star" every day. That's fine, as most people think that a guy like Carmelo Anthony is a "star" just because he can score a lot of points on a lot of shots. But educated fans like me who measure a player's ability by his ability to win or lose games are far more impressed by Lin's ability to carry teams just as he did with NY and with Houston.
I'm an NBA fan, not a Jeremy Lin or Rockets or Knicks fan. It actually doesn't matter to me what fans think about Lin because I only care about the game played on the court. As usual, your youthful projection of your own negative fantasies about Lin fans clouds your view of reality - that I couldn't care LESS about what NBA fans think.
Whatever just because im here, doesnt mean im gonna be the weakest link or something. My opinion is as fair as any beings Ive watched basketball my whole life and am very smart with the game. Anyway I just hope Lin does good with the assists because thats what makes a point guard great. I know he can score. Its setting up your main p;layers like Kmart or Lamb that will make him most useful, you know?Thats why I cant stand when people say amare and melo dont work. That doesnt even make sense, there both forwards. What do people expect them to be kobe and shaq? lol all they need is a good play-making point guard for it to work so they can understand the chemistry and know when to involve melo or Amare on a play, for instance, get amare involved on the pick and roll which one of his best tributes, also passing him the ball in his sweetspots about 1.5 feet inside the 3-point line. a point guard is supposed to know where a players sweet spots are and Lin will learn that about his players soon, its still early. Thankyou for the post
DeleteExcellent analysis, jay mac.
DeleteYou're definitely not going to be the weakest link here. On this forum, we're all equals. Nobody is better than anybody in this place, except Administration that owns all of us!
The only thing I gently disagree with is that Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony have not been able to play well together so far. I think that's because Amare Stoudemire plays like a slashing small forward with no post up game while Carmelo Anthony plays like a post up power forward with no slashing game! Plus defensively those two players are noncommittal.
I don't think any player in the NBA could get Stoudemire and Anthony to produce at the same time on a NBA court. Stoudemire made strides by training his post up ability with Hakeem Olajuwon this summer, but he's still not going to be regarded a true post up threat until he starts backing guys down and planting himself in the paint. Carmelo Anthony excelled in Mike D'Antoni's free flow offense this summer in the Olympics, but that's not the same offense that Woodson is employing. Plus Anthony is not the same unselfish player on the Knicks that he was in the Olympics.
The only way Stoudemire and Anthony could truly work is if they started playing pick and roll with EACH OTHER. But that's not going to happen, unfortunately.
@ jay mac
DeleteIf you wanted a discussion, posters on here would have been more than obliging I'm sure.
"I was just asking a question and afetr hearing there responses I tryed not to get angry about it."
- You ask why JLin is so overrated, isn't that already an implicit put-down? You baited people by putting down JLin against KMart, what's that about? JLin "sucks at ball Bahahaha" but now you want to whitewash what you posted. You were needlessly provocative, why be surprised if people call you out on it?
"im really not a Lin hater, i was just curious"
- If you were just curious, you would have asked a real question, not declare he is overrated [as if it's a fact] and tack a question mark at the end. That was not a question. You were pushing an opinion and expecting us to agree with you. Then crying that we're mean when we did not.
"He didnt make the knicks, the knicks made him and you wouldnt even know him if it werent for us."
- I don't think you understand the fans on this site, jay mac. People know him from way before the NBA. He led Paly to a state title. When you drop 30 on UConn, people know. Didn't you see people with JLin signs at that Nets game? Don't assume we didn't know about him just bec you didn't.
[I suppose if any of these
"interesting guys
get their chance in the future, you'd say that too? The fans on this site are well-aware of up-&-coming talents and need no team to introduce them to us.]
"Your be doing the same thing to the Rockets fans once your team starts sucking and people start blaming Lin. Hes a player, every player has to be humble and be critiscized when they deserve it"
- But why do you assume it'll be his fault if they do suck? They are a young, inexperienced team.
Let's get pass this. Just know the posters on here are no fools, we know what you did. Anyhow, let's get pass this.
Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen
ReplyDeleteAbout as intense a scrimmage as you'll see at Rockets practice. Good stuff at Training Camp, Part II.
11:19 AM - 20 Oct 12
Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen
This is why media shouldn't judge from glimpses at practices. Sounds like scrimmage so intense because practice so poor, McHale so annoyed.
12:08 PM - 20 Oct 12
That second tweet is ironic and hilarious. If Jeremy were a coach, I can see him similarly annoyed at players for poor practices.
DeleteJeremy should be a coach one day and I bet he will now that I think about it. Hes a very smart player. Dennis Rodman would have made a great coach too, he was very smart like Lin, he used to do such smart moves at such the right times, you would think he knew it was gonna happen or something. Hard to explain but I see him in Jeremy, both have intelligient IQ's with the game
DeleteNow there's something we agree on, jay mac!
DeleteI totally agree that both Lin and Rodman would be excellent NBA head coaches.
Larry Bird said something interesting about Rodman. He said that Dennis Rodman was a terrific scorer when he came into the league and that he figured that Rodman would become a Dominique Wilkins level scorer. But then Bird said that somebody told Rodman he couldn't score and so Rodman didn't.
The only problem with both Lin and Rodman as coaches is the same problem that so many star coaches have faced: their transcendent ability to see the game puts them with odds with their less talented players who cannot grasp the basketball concepts that made guys like Lin and Rodman (and also McHale who's struggling with his less talented players) the stars that they are!
Yes, in addition to his intelligence, Jeremy also uses his intelligence to study the game. What's great about about Jeremy is that he makes a conscious effort to improve in response to weaknesses. That will help him understand that players will have struggles and with a willing heart, those weaknesses can be minimised.
DeleteJudging from his basketball camps in Asia this summer, it seems like his coaching style will be a patient coach. His in game body language suggests he is demanding and he does get frustrated, but it seems frustration with lack of execution. Jeremy can be very good at mentoring and developing talent which focuses on team awareness.
McHale drove both Kyle Lowry and Goran Dragic nuts with his championship demands.
DeleteYet both Lowry and Dragic enjoyed excellent seasons playing for McHale. Dragic in particular was completely transformed by McHale.
Jeremy Lin is being transformed by McHale right now. McHale is molding him into a championship caliber point guard. McHale is hard on Lin, but Lin HAS to take it if he wants to reach his fullest potential!
@KHuang
DeleteHow did you know that McHale drove both Lowry and Dragic nuts?
I know McHale is a competitive person but I'm still clueless about his coaching ability.
Hopefully, you are correct about his championship demands.
Kyle Lowry said so.
DeleteLowry said that neither he nor Dragic would play for McHale in 2012-2013.
I don't know what Dragic thought of McHale, but Lowry was right that he didn't sign.
Given how inept Dragic has been for most of his NBA career, I can only surmise that McHale whipped him into shape!
All great points and if you guys are still somewhat new to McHale, just wanna let you know the guy is awesome. Watch his and rodmans hall of fame speech if you get the chance, He makes a great coach because hes old school, plus a Hall of Fame player and almost ANY hall of fame player deserves a job with the team. Jordan is an owner but he belongs on the court. Jordan is my favorite player of all time, him and David Robinson. Oh and what I was saying before, Rodman was an intelligient player/ rebounding phenomenon and incredible defensive player{two-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year, and 7-time rebounding champion} but your right, I never understand why he didnt shoot more. I just figured shooting wasnt his strong spot.
DeleteRodman was also a very emotional player whether people knew it or not. He would show his emotions EVERY NIGHT on the court, from fighting for his team-mated to ripping his jersey off lol, he was crazy. Man those were the good days. Im only 24 but I remember them like it were yesterday.
DeleteI think Rodman himself chose not to become a scorer.
DeleteRodman started his career backing up Adrian Dantley in Detroit. At the time, Detroit didn't need Rodman for scoring because they had scorers throught the entire roster. Plus, Coach Chuck Daly inserted Rodman all over the court at all 5 positions for defense.
My belief is that Rodman simply became so skilled at his role that he never needed to develop his conplete game.
@ neph
DeleteSeems they got off on a bad start, with McHale screaming at Lowry being out of shape at first practice. Then problem at PG spot when Lowry came back from his infection, and Dragic was playing so well. Rox went onto a string of losses, Lowry felt he was being unfairly blamed for them. The lock-out didn't give him and McHale the chance to get some relationship going.
During the Denver game, McHale grabbed Lowry and pulled him back toward a huddle during timeout [Lowry got so angry he needed to be restrained.]
Great links as usual, via wong.
DeleteThe 2nd article cracked me up. McHale was criticized for being an "alpha male". I thought that was so cool!
A few posts earlier, I cited that McHale had a whole team of beta males last year and that's why an alpha like him clashed with them. McHale as an alpha was trying to get that disjointed team of selfish betas to get in shape and play together, but those selfish betas fought back.
I giggled when the author of the 2nd article talked about Kevin Martin being a wonderful team player and tha Kyle Lowry was so terrific. Kevin Martin is one of the more selfish players in the NBA and Kyle Lowry should've had his butt in the huddle when McHale grabbed him. No wonder Houston got rid of the malcontent Lowry and is trying to eject the me first Martin.
Kevin McHale this year is the same alpha male coach he was last year. Yet because Lin sets the tone with his team attitude and willingness to work with McHale, Kevin McHale has not complained once about his players failing to be professionals. He'll complain about their inexperience, but that's not really complaining!
Indeed it looks like McHale + JLin is going to turn out great. Very encouraged by McHale's way of doing things. A coach SHOULD be able to do that, expect and demand the best out of his players. He'll definitely appreciate JLin's qualities and will be JLin's staunch supporter.
DeleteCompelling case that Dennis Rodman is the best player of all time, meaning "had the greatest effect on winning and losing":
Deletehttp://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222
saw a nice video in tumblr: How Jeremy Lin utilizes the Pick and Roll - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GRfu7XsZuSI#t=215s
ReplyDeleteThank for the link.
DeleteDefinitely validates even more how dangerous JLIN is on the pick n roll. I'm sure the Rockets will do more pick n roll once the regular season starts.
The rockets haven't been executing a lot of those pick-and-rolls in the previous pre-season games.
DeleteSince Lin would probably need a couple of months to regain his full athleticism back, he'll definitely pass the ball to his teammates rather than score as much as he did last season.
Thanks for the link, HY.
Delete@KHuang,
Are Jeremy's PnRs any different from other NBA players'?
What actually set Jeremy apart from other players if the PnRs demonstrated in the vid above ain't anything new?
The thing that sets Jeremy Lin apart on the basketball court (not just the pick and roll) is his All Star athleticism.
DeleteIn the NBA, point guards are an incredibly smart bunch of players. They know exactly how to play the game. That doesn't mean that they can physically pull it off, though.
Because Lin is more athletic than most point guards, he plays at a faster pace than most players on both ends. Thus opponents game plan against him more than they do any point guard in the NBA, regardless of what they think of his game.
In a previous thread, Dystopia complained that Deron Williams looked "slow". I told him that he had been watching too many Lin games and that Williams was just being "Williams". To see how Lin's breathtaking athleticism impacts the NBA game, go watch videos of other point guards like Rajon Rondo or Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook or John Wall. You'll see what Dystopia1980 and I were talking about.
@KHuang,
DeleteFew months ago, while I was still on the lowest point of the basketball game learning curve, I couldn't really tell who are the more athletic point guards, but now I do, and I definitely find many so-claimed elite point guards are slower than Jeremy. Yay!
Good going, JaneLin7.
DeleteWhat you also need to know is that if a "quick" point guard like John Wall or Russell Westbrook is playing "out of control", it's because they are NOT QUICK ENOUGH to get to the spots they want. Lin, on the other hand, plays so quickly that he can get to his spots whenever he wants and that's why he appears so relaxed and even slow when he plays the game.
Analysts say that the game "slows down" for the great players. In truth, those great players are so quick that they don't have to press themselves to go where they want to. Larry Bird looked slow, but he was always one of the fastest players on an NBA court whenever he played!
If you want to see a guy that is 100% equivalent to Jeremy Lin in athleticism, JaneLin7, go watch those Micheal "Sugar" Ray Richardson videos on youtube that people are correctly tired of hearing me write about. You'll notice that "Sugar" even has the same exact moves that Lin does!
You mentioned the 100% athleticism equivalence between Michael "Sugar" Ray Richardson in some of your previous posts. I watched almost all of Mr Sugar Ray's vids available on Youtube...I'm learning, so much from this fan site and from you. Thanks, KHuang.
DeleteYou're welcome.
DeleteThe reverent way people wax poetic about Sugar Ray is the way people would wax poetic about Lin were he not Asian.
Also JaneLin7, look at Sugar Ray's stats. They are very similar to what Lin would have done had he received more playing time. Sugar led the NBA in steals and assists, and there's a high chance that Lin will do that this year.
Keep in mind that Lin has a higher ceiling than Sugar because Lin doesn't have Sugar's drug problem.
Any videos about the intense practice?
ReplyDeleteI just can't stand to some of the fans bashing on lin and just can't get it off with lin's turn over when it's only 2 turn overs and the worst maybe more than 5 turn overs. Even star likes Rondo get more than 6 turn overs in recent game and all other super star too. I mean people talk about lin's like it's such a big deal while others not. I think that is really not fair and beyond just simply fair. there's other things lies within it. that explain why some of us lin fans are some times may seem outrages when people talk some thing bad about lin.it's not like we are not critical thinking and we can't take criticism but we want fair criticisms.
ReplyDeleteYeah but hes not Rondo. You can't compare them just because of turnovers because Rondo also carried his offense to the championship. I dont think Lin is even that bad with Turnovers so when people say that there just looking for reasons to hate. 4 turnovers aint good but it aint all that bad either. He just needs to get a decent amount of asdsist more importantly then anything. If he averages 8 points a game then fine but atleast get your 9 assists and your be looking good Lin
Deletej mac is RIGHT, lydia lien.
DeleteAll he's saying is that to the average fan, Lin doesn't have a resume built up yet and so people are skeptical about him.
I find the average fan's opinion of Lin perfectly justifiable, though I definitely don't agree because of my Moneyball tendencies. And honestly, J mac feels the same way about Lin as I do!
Yes that's what I'm saying, thankyou Khuang. Lin is smart and thats a great thing considering he's a point guard, you want your point guard to have a high IQ for offensive play-making. The biggest thing is learning how to play with his new team, learning his team-mates strong and weak spots on the court. Learning how to take the style of offense his coach preaches and designing his own personalized team chemistry to form his teams identidy or makeup. Lin is young, if there smart, they will keep him around to grow old with them for years to come so after they design there very own style of offense, they will keep it the exact same way. There 1st round picks will get alot better too. As a Knicks fan, I feel sick and disgusted about Amare being injured again. I really hope we get a good new backup PF to play behind Amare as an insurance policy so-to-speak. Im hoping we get Marisse Speights, he'd be a great backup power-forward. Amare has been dragging us down lately, I love him but hes hurting us. Hope he gets better
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletebut I agree with some one above it. I don't want lin fans to put out the phrase like "lin is the best" "lin for the win", because it will get him even more pressure,and the people who want to see him fail is waiting. my advice to lin fans is just simply tell him encourage words. that's what i am doing all the time. I just simply said go jeremy. we r here to support you no matter what. bad times or good times.
ReplyDeleteIf Lin performs like the best, he deserves to be called the best.
DeleteAmong point guards, Lin has been among the top scorers, passers, and defenders. To my knowledge, no other NBA All Star point guard has outperformed Lin across the board in those areas. So why should guys that perform less than Lin be considered better than Lin?
Were Lin any other color than Asian, people would be calling him the next Magic Johnson. Everybody would speak reverently of his statistical dominance in so many categories and compare him favorably to other players. But because Lin is Asian, he gets criticized and ridiculed. Same goes for us here, particularly those like me who have Asian screennames.
I've long learned that it's better to just call things the way they are instead of trying to sugarcoat them for people who have ill intentions anyway.
I'm not a basketball expert and I watch NBA bcos of Jordan and Jeremy Lin. They are fun to watch. They have a story unlike others who are just another face in the crowd.
DeleteFor now I enjoy seeing Jeremy play well and helping his team to win. It will be even more special if Jeremy hits the winner. So here goes........
Lin for the winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn........woohoo
Oh I support Houston bcos Jeremy plays for them. To be honest , I don't give a damn about Houston before that.
DeleteThe day Jeremy leaves Houston will be the day I stop watching their games. Btw who are Knicks?? Hahaha
I'm a fan boy of Jeremy Lin and happy with it.
Lin for the win indeed!
Delete@ lydia lien
Like KHuang said, these people are coming from a place of malice anyhow.
I celebrate him. [You can't appease these haters enough, they hate on him out of their own personal inadequacies.]
Lin will keep SUCKING!!! His fans know NOTHING!!! Lin will keep SUCKING!!! His fans know NOTHING!!!
DeleteYou're awesome, jmac.
DeleteWe Lin fans know nothing!!!! That's why when people say Lin can't play in the NBA, we Lin fans don't listen!!!
Legends get remembered...but heroes never die
DeleteR.I.P. DAD
and talk about assist points isn't it also depend on your teammate's shooting skill? when you pass the ball and the person makes the shot then you get points for assist? I am just asking. not very knowledgeable about basketball. if that's correct, then sometimes it's not just the point guard thing. I guess team play, team chemistry is the most critical. even in other parts of life, when people come together, things will be good.
ReplyDeleteYep, you are correct. Getting assists is all about getting your teammates open looks and high percentage shots to maximize the probability that they will score. But like you said, if your teammate that you pass to has a wide open look but has a terrible shooting ability, then you could expect not to get an assist.
DeleteLydia Lien: Same thing with turn-overs. A PG may have made a nice pass but if the receiving person could have caught it but did not, the TO goes to the PG. I believe this is correct -- anyone? What's important is that sometimes stats is misleading and inaccurate. However, over a course of one season or one's career, the stats even out. That's the idea. It's like dating: one date can reveal obvious traits, such as one's looks, etc. But if you marry someone based on one date, he or she may turn out to be a psycho. Hopefully, after 25 dates, some truths may be gleaned. I am one of those JLin fans who rather wait for one entire season and even playoff performance before declaring him a great player. I do not see him as an offensive weapon who can create and get off and make his shots at this point in his career, so I predict 12 points, 9.5 assists and 2 steals and 3 TOs PER GAME this season, which I don't think would be an All-star numbers but I think (?) would still be solid numbers. Also, I have to say a lot of so-called "great" PGs do not impress me, except for C. Paul who seems to play solid and great games most of the times and has a good judgment of when to pass and shoot, whereas other "so-called" great PGs such as Westbrook, Parker, and Rondo can have "great" games sometimes and "so-so" games often. I don't even consider Nash "great" anymore from what I have seen, but I can see him have many solid games. I have no reservation saying JLin played "great" last season with Knicks, especially under D'Antoni, but I rather wait for before declaring him an All-star caliber player. However, I have to admit that if JLin does not play well, my excitement of watching him play will diminish. I used to watch only NBA games during Finals, but because of JLin, I followed Knicks and Rockets games. He certainly makes it more enjoyable for me to watch NBA games, and having watched him, I have a new appreciation for how difficult it is to achieve even a solid and long career in NBA. I rather he have a long, solid career than one or two seasons of All-star playing and then get injured and leave NBA. I also love to see players like Battier play whom I consider to have been instrumental in Miami's winning it all last season.
DeleteLast season, players CHOSE not to catch Lin's passes.
DeleteI don't think it's on Lin when his teammates refuse to come to the ball when he's triple teamed or when they maliciously drop perfect passes delivered right to their hands.
Lin is the exact same passer with the Rockets as he was with the Knicks last year. The only difference is that his guys are catching his passes willingly. Thus Lin's turnovers are way down and will stay down.
@eb5attorney: just out of curiosity, why do you expect JLin to average less points this year than last year? Is it because the Rockets' pick-and-roll won't be as effective because he doesn't have a Chandler-type to work with?
DeleteMainly because opposing teams and players guarding him are aware and wary of consequences of allowing him to penetrate, and because I feel his jump shots we'd some work. Those are my reasons, not because his skills have gone down.
Deletewow...thanks for all your reply!!!! learn a lot!!
DeleteAgree with eb5...
DeleteI agree with eb5 too, though there's a good chance that Lin goes hogwild on scoring if the young Rockets can develop their games.
DeleteIf Lin's Rockets can make teams pay for loading up on him, Lin will get his 20 ppg EASILY.
I meant to say "need", not "we'd" in my post above. Also, I believe if Rockets can produce more scorers, it means JLin does not have to score more and help them do their thing. It is true that JLin is the type of player who does not need to shine or take credit and will help other players do well. I say JLin can get 16 points easily IF his jump shots start falling. During preseason games, his poor shooting is making him more hesitant in his offensive attempts; I just wish he shoot confidently even when he misses. Just shoot confidently even if he shoots air balls.
Delete25 Games, 25 Million:
ReplyDeleteUsing 25 Games to Predict a Full Season
[From @Aids Bike]
Not Bill Walton @NotBillWalton
ReplyDeletePlease share: Email is circulating about "Twitter Verification". They want to steal your account. Do NOT click. Orignates from: @kevingetem
9:16 PM - 21 Oct 12
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBeing new to this site, I admire your tremendous work to dedicate to JLin. As a Knicks fan, I was heartbroken when the KNicks did not match him. I am still rooting for him and hope he will develop to a solid and great player as possible.
ReplyDeleteWill JLin be interviewed by Charlie Rose soon or has he already been interviewed? Please let me know.
ReplyDeleteHe had the interview Oct 19.
Delete@via, thank you for your reply.
ReplyDeleteglad to help.
DeleteFinally got the chance to see a few preseason games by the Knicks and looks like they've completely gone away from D'Antoni's speedball offense. Seems like coach Woodson is running the ball through Carmelo most of the time with a few pick and roll plays here and there for Chandler/Amare. Felton and Kidd's roles seem to be very limited and the PG in that system is not given the freedom to deviate much from the plays. Having said that, Felton looked good to me. He's quick, makes efficient passes and protects the ball. I don't expect him to rack up the stat sheet though what with the limitations put on the PG in this system. I think the Knicks are now the team management envisioned when they signed Carmelo and Chandler but had to amnesty Billups who was the true PG they had.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the Knicks now and the way they play, it's a blessing in disguise for Lin to be with the Rockets. There's just no way he could continue Linsanity under coach Woodson. It's a win-win for both parties actually. Woody would never have been able to institute his style of play what with a fan favorite like Lin on the roster. The fans would be clamoring for Lin-ball over Melo-ball and ultimately, that's not good for team chemistry.
Well, Linsanity wasn't going to happen in New York because the veterans on that team weren't going to play second fiddle to a rookie, nor should they have. The people who tried to make that fact into a racial\ego\selfishness\diva thing just weren't interested in anyone else's perspective but Lin's. Which is precisely why the point "I think the Knicks are now the team management envisioned when they signed Carmelo and Chandler" is so important. The idea that they were going to throw all that away to build a team around Lin was unrealistic. The only reason why it was even taken seriously is because of Melo's unpopularity.
DeleteRunning the ball through Melo most of the time is what should happen. He's their best offensive player, and one of the best offensive players in the NBA. The question is whether Melo is going to be selfish or pass the ball. "The fans would be clamoring for Lin-ball over Melo-ball and ultimately, that's not good for team chemistry." Again, this would have only happened because Melo is so unpopular. But Melo has only himself to blame for his lack of popularity. People would have only been clamoring for the return of Lin-ball had the Knicks been losing. Had they been winning, no one would have said a thing.
As for whether it is a blessing in disguise ... it is whether it is better to be the #2 player on a very good team versus the #1 player on a mediocre one. There is also the factor of playing in New York, a city that loves pro basketball, versus in Texas, where pro basketball comes behind pro/college/high school football and pro baseball, and where the Rockets aren't even the most popular NBA team (the Spurs are followed by the Mavs).
Also, just because the Rockets are Lin's team doesn't mean a return to Linsanity, by the way. That's not Kevin McHale's thing, really. He'll adapt to Lin's talents, obviously, but will still be a long way from D'Antoni. People are going to have their own opinions, but if several months from now the Knicks are burning up the NBA and the Rockets are struggling to break .500 and get into the playoffs, we'll see.
How dare you call a 3rd year player in the NBA a "rookie", Hater Unlnown. That's an utter insult to Lin.
DeleteRACE is the only reason you hate Lin and his Asian fans.
That said, it's good to see you around. One day if you ever grow out of your anti Asian animosity, you might actually LIKE this place.
Unknown was trying to say JLin was almost like a rookie in terms of having played less than an entire season of games. He makes some good points in that there was no way Knicks were going to allow JLin run the show, especially D'Antoni left, so what has been good for Knicks is good for Houston. The only thing I disagree with the Unknown's post above is that I do not believe that Knicks will be burning up NBA, although Rockets might be struggling to break .500. It could happen but somehow I don't think so.
DeleteIt's STILL a flaming INSULT to call a player who's endured three training camps, D league demotions, brutal hits from bounty hunters, team mutinies, and nasty tabloid driven contract negotiations a "rookie" who's never endured any of that and likely never will.
DeleteSimilarly eb5attorney, I have a big problem with YOU for siding with Hater Unknown against your own people on the racial issue. How dare you trash your fellow Asian Americans by agreeing with Unknown that guys like me follow Lin only because he's Asian? I have a HUMONGOUS problem with you, just like you have a HUMONGOUS problem with me.
Throughout your time here, you have been consistently dismissive of Lin and his fans. You don't fool me or anybody else here.
KHuang
ReplyDeleteI have just seen a video about Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson and I'll admit they have a number of similarities. The most obvious similarity is their nose for the ball when defending the passing lanes. They can easily lead the league in steals provided they play starter's minutes. Second, both players tend to make a very deceptive and quick hesitation move that freezes and leaves the defender. They have very incredible acceleration. Third, their ability to finish in the basket despite the contact or multiple defenders is beyond average.
However, I'll have to say that Michael Richardson has the slight advantage in terms of speed/quickness. I'm not sure about that but that is based from my estimation.
But I did not see enough videos on pick-n-roll plays so I couldn't judge him there. Now, I'll reiterate what I said before that when it comes to pick-n-roll plays and pure craftiness, Jeremy reminds of Ginobli. I'll agree that Ginobli is less athletic and not really a floor general but both players are capable of using different angles in driving to the basket despite minimal space. They both split the pick-n-roll at will. I've seen both players change direction when driving to the basket due to multiple defenders. Despite the multiple defenders, they are still able to release a decent shot.
By the way, I cannot compare Richardson and Lin in terms of their court vision since there are very limited videos about Richardson's highlights (most are scoring highlights).
Oh, I 100% agree with everything you said!
DeleteSugar played in the era of illegal defense where man to man defense was really the only legal defense. At all times, defensive players had to shadow the player with the ball. Thus in the 80s, Sugar faced far easier defenses than Lin faces today.
If Lin played in Sugar's era, he'd BE Sugar. If Sugar played in Lin's era, he'd BE Lin. Nonetheless, there are significant oncourt differences between the two players even though they're made of the same basketball "stuff".
You made excellent observations, neph. I get the same impression from the video highlights that Sugar has slight advantage in physical attributes (speed/quickness, 6'5" vs 6'3" height) and explosiveness to the baskets, which should help him in rebounds and steals.
DeleteQuick look on the stats in the 2nd year seem confirmed that Sugar has better steal rate (3.0 vs 1.6), rebound (5.6 vs 3.0), and assists (8.2 vs 6.1) but Jeremy has better 3PT5 (32% vs 25%). Everything else (FG%, FT%) seem to be the same. Interestingly, the block rate (0.3) is the same although Sugar should have more advantage being taller.
IMO, Sugar definitely has more physical gifts and perhaps better scoring/assist/rebound than Jeremy but Jeremy's greatest attribute might be the knack to make everyone around him better and win the games plus the ability to stay away from off-court distractions such as drugs, women, laziness.
IMHO, I think Jeremy's highest ceiling would be a player like Magic with great playmaking abilities plus Sugar's ability to get into the rim anytime to score. That would take 4-5 years.
People has said 25 games are too small for a sample size but we know as fans that he has a track record from high school (won championships vs. Mater Dei w/inferior teammates) to college (against D1 colleges w/ inferior teammates) to NBA (Linsanity streak w/ OK teammates) to shine during big games when the spotlight is the brightest.
People keep underestimating Jeremy Lin and he keeps proving them wrong. And we get to watch how he leads Houston Rockets to make his teammates even better.
Hey, my comment got scrubbed! All I did was ask why it was presumed that jay mac was black. No fair!
ReplyDeleteYeah, mine too. With all due respect to admin, I did not use foul language, and what i wrote regarding allowing dissenting views to be heard was deleted, and so were the subsequent responses to it. Was there a reason why? I always wondered why some posts are deleted?
ReplyDeleteI just need to address this, less people think haters coming onto this site is just a figment of the imagination. You see people popping up out of nowhere to bash Linfans here all the time.
ReplyDelete[@Linsanity 2.0 starts on Halloween and @wilc mentioned this nutjob on the Grizzlies game thread]
His earliest vids on JLin from Jan 22, 2012 on, where he rallies JLin-haters to visit this site: "Watch as Jeremy Lin stinks it up on the court. Asian fanboys are still crying about it! For even more comedy, check out the cesspool of Jeremy Lin fanboys! LMAO! http://www.jeremylin.net/"
He tries to involve Clutchfans and make it some kind of RealGM/ Clutchfans vs LOFs thing.
[The vid they were referring to have been replaced by a new one.]
"LOFs and Apologists are probably real mad right now since they can't face the TRUTH.
Shout out to all the TRUE Warriors and Knicks fans who keep it real on REALGM and called out all the Lin fanboys! Another shout out to the Rockets fans on Clutchfans, especially Apollo33, GlenRice, and Sigmund for telling it like it is.
Nicknames for Lin: Taiwanese Turnover and Chinese Chucker, since he's both! HAHAHA"
[Even Clutchfan-ers SMH at the hate: "Lin=the only player to have both highlights and lowlights posted after each and every game."]
Not only does he continue to reference JLin's ethinicity, his comments on Chris Tang:
"The next Jeremy Lin, Chris Tang #5 current Asian High School basketball player from China, certainly could be the next Jeremy Lin! Breaking his team's records in the category of turnovers!"
---
Just to be clear, it has nothing to do with this nutjob's ethnicity, but everything to do with his own damaged way of thinking. A person so full of hate. It was never about basketball.
The guy has some sort of strange pacific islander not Asian thing going on. I could care less what he considers himself, not that anyone even cares but the hate filled movement he is trying to rouse is crossing the line. Linking this forum is asking for trouble.
DeleteThis guy is just trolling. I mean he shouted out to GlenRice? I signed up at ClutchFans in December and then went back in February during Linsanity. This guy GlenRice had the most hilariously epic meltdown. If you have like 15 minutes to kill, I'd suggest perusing through this.
DeleteBy the way, thanks for linking to my article earlier.
@ Linsanity 2.0 starts on Halloween
DeleteAnd of course the new "lowlight" vid finds its way back into Clutchfans. SMH
@ Aids Bike
Interesting article, I'm sure a lot of people have wondered what if JLin had remained healthy last season.
I cannot imagine the back story which explains why these people spend so much time bashing others. Just cannot imagine it! It's one thing to passionately defend why you think JLin is inadequate, it's another when you genuinely seem to be bothered by his success.
Delete@Linsanity and Aidsbike I think you guys are just jealous that he aint talking about Lin like that. Ive seen Linfans jump all over me because I was talking great about Kevin Martin. They litterally called me every name in the book and then ended it with "Hater!" lmao, all because I was talking great about one of Lins teammates and not Lin. They want Lin to get ALL the attention and claim hes the face of teh Rockets franchise when he is NOT.
DeleteWith that said, I changed my mind about staying because 1. I dont belong here, I thought there was good basketball discussions when really theres only Lin discussion which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is. and 2. Khuang has been the only nice guy here to me, hes treated me with respect and hasnt attacked me like yall and I think he deserves recognition for that becasue hes an awesome nice person and a REAL basketball fan. And the Rockets are going down 2m against a pittiful team yet the Hornets have more talent then the Rockets. Let see; K-mart, Lamb...and K-mart, oh wait, I already said him
Delete@ jay mac
DeleteSo let me get this straight, you think that troll is right? You don't think he's doing anything wrong? I just want to be clear.
---
"Linfans jump all over me because I was talking great about Kevin Martin."
- You did not JUST talk great about KMart. You devalued JLin while pretending to praise KMart. You are obviously butthurt about the attention JLin gets and can't see pass this aspect.
"They want Lin to get ALL the attention and claim hes the face of teh Rockets franchise when he is NOT."
- We don't have to "want" JLin to get all the attention. He ALREADY gets all the attention, and IS the Rox's FOTF. Doesn't it just kill you inside?
[On another note, your envy keeps you from seeing that not everybody is happy about the pressure all this attention will bring him.] If you're not envious, WHY DO YOU CARE? WHY DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO COME INTO A JLIN FAN SITE TO SET THE FANS "STRAIGHT?" Does it just stick in your craw, whenever you see reporters falling all over themselves to ask his opinion, take his picture? Was it the GQ cover that drove you over the edge? I hope you brace yourself for the 60 Minutes profile, then. :)
"I thought there was good basketball discussions when really theres only Lin discussion which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is."
- This is a JLIN FAN SITE, we will talk about JLin [lol, what did you expect?] We feel so ashamed we're not up to your basketball-discussion standards!
- "...which usually tend to be untrue to make him look better then he is?"
- SMDH...
2. I agree KHuang is awesome. AND VERY PATIENT with you. [But dude, don't insult him by thinking he can't see through your game. Your passive-aggressive crap is just all over the place.]
I wasn't talking about Lin fans on here. I meant on ESPN one time, after a game(i forget which one) I said how good Martin polayed and Lin had a bad game so he was obviously butthurt and jealous that Lin couldnt be getting attention like Kmart was so he went nuts on me lol. People are a joke. Ever since Lin, we have had numerous people from all over try to become basketball fans over night and they drive real hardcore B-ball fans crazy with there actions
DeleteWell, there WOULD be people like that.
DeleteBut you can't generalize JLin's fans ["one billion Chinese"] bcos of the behavior of some guy on the ESPN comments section.
WHY NOT TALK BBALL, jay? The posters on here are very knowledgeable, you'll enjoy it. But we'll also be talking 24/7 about JLin, bcos this is a JLIN FAN SITE.
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ReplyDeleteJust to be clear, like the regular posters have repeatedly said, even haters are welcome to post on here. But its unfair to expect Linfans to just sit and take their BS. They can sandwich their crap in between seemingly-reasonable posts all they want, Linfans are well within reason to call them out if they're being shady.
ReplyDelete[Linfans = not only LOFs]
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DeleteHe's a basketball player, not a family member. So why is anyone who doesn't worship Lin and think hes god on the court, considered a hater? Lets be fair, it was my opinion on his skills that made me a hater. Then you attacked me. So dont justify that and try to spin it around making you look like the victim and me the bad guy because its bullshit. And it was a fair opinion considering he hasnt proved anything yet
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DeleteWhy do you think we "worhip" him? Bcos we don't agree to have you disrespect him [and us?]
DeleteYou think asking: "why is Lin so over-rated?" is not being a hater? What if I go to your place and ask you: "Why are you so stupid?" It's just my opinion after all, based on your grammar and spelling. [Just to be clear, I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE BY THESE. But some people do, and I could too. Let's just take this as an EXAMPLE.] You have not proven your intelligence to me after all, and I'm free to have my own opinion.
But how would you have felt if I came up to you and said that?
If you really wanted a discussion, you could have asked a straight, far more simpler question. You could have asked why we admire JLin so much, then elaborated on the weaknesses you think he has [and no one is denying he has them.] No, you come into a JLin fan site and posted a convoluted "question" that took-for-granted that he IS overrated, a question you SURELY know would provoke a negative reaction. Then you cry "waa, you're being mean!" when you are called-out for it. Dude, noboby is spinning things but you. Us trying to look like victims? Isn't that YOUR game? We do not subscribe to victimhood here, sorry.
[So, if you're a Nyk fan, what is all this: "Lin so meh, but KMart is whoa! Lin crap, KMart wow! Lin suck at ball bahahaha!" And before you spin this into KMart bashing, dude, you will not fool people here into bashing KMart.]
The posters here engaged [indulged] you bcos that's what enlightened adults do: They give you the benefit of the doubt, they try to get pass things, they resolve by logical, peaceful discussion.
As for me though, I'm just via and I don't care to be respectable. I'm the petty person who will harp on every little point of incongruence in your posts. Just so you know. :)
---
It's really insulting you think you can spin us around, turn us against each other. Not gonna happen. Your passive-aggressive crap, not gonna fly.
First of all i have a higher degree in school than you ever will probably, I just type fast but if you were to say that, that would make you a hater because your insulting me. Me talking about Lin as a player regardless if I say he's great or he sucks, it doesn't make me a hater because he is a basketball player. Im not saying he's a bad person. And Lin doesn't give a shit about you anyway you crybaby. Lin had an amazing game last night LMAO, all 3 of our knicks point guards played better then him in less time too. Lin in 31 mins- 2 points, 6 turnovers and 5 assists? Bahahahha omg you people are so biased, you love him because he's chinese. If he was a black guy, you would think he sucked then
DeleteEducation does not = Intelligence. And in case you haven't notice, I was just using the phrase as an example, I don't really think that. If you felt insulted, then you would understand how insulting your first post was -> the thing we called you out for.
DeleteI used your exact template:
You asked - Why is JLin so overrated?
I merely substituted - Why is jay so stupid?
If somebody came to your place, and said that, wouldn't you react? [Why would you expect us not to?] If this person then makes disingenuous claims of innocence ["I was just asking a question! You're so mean!"] wouldn't you feel even more insulted? What, is that how stupid you think we are that we can't see through the ruse? People here will politely give you the benefit of the doubt, but make no mistake, they know what's up.
"Me talking about Lin as a player regardless if I say he's great or he sucks, it doesn't make me a hater because he is a basketball player."
- Stop with the strawman. The reason we called you out -> all about your motives in coming onto this site. You came to hate on the fans here:
"WHY IS LIN SO OVER-RATED?" is a pre-meditated question full of malice. No one constructs a question like that without some mal-intent.
"And Lin doesn't give a shit about you anyway you crybaby."
- FFS, jay, this is just...JUVENILE. SMH.
'Lin had an amazing game last night LMAO, all 3 of our knicks point guards played better then him in less time too. Lin in 31 mins- 2 points, 6 turnovers and 5 assists?"
- It's the preseason, genius.
- If you're a real fan, then you'd know every player gets into a shooting slump once in a while.
- The team has more than 10 new players trying to gel, McHale is experimenting, and JLin is still in the process of recovering from the surgery, why would he want to re-injure himself?
[Hey jay, I hope Chandler recovers from his own injury himself. It'll suck if all this bad karma comes back to bite the Nyk. That's how Karma works you know.] :)
"Bahahahha omg you people are so biased, you love him because he's chinese. If he was a black guy, you would think he sucked then."
- Jay, only a racist thinks this way. Are you a racist? Bcos for a racist, the reason is always RACE.
*sigh*
Talk bball, jay. Stop trolling.
VIA EVERYTHING and I do mean EVERYTHING that you say makes no sense., not in this caase anyway. You say keep it basketball related but I dont think you know what that means. Your saying its the same when you call me stupid? Lmao hes a sports player, go listen to the radio when they talk about a player whos been performing badly, they cqall him out on it. Its what keeps them humble. You take it personal and insult ME, like im making fun of your family member or something. Your pathetic and you feel like you hafto stick up for him even though he HAS been not a very good point guard. Last night he wasd just bad, all out bad. And that makes me a hater to you although its the truth. I hate Lin, hes never done anything to me. But this called sports talk so if you insult me again im gonna call you out on it you little coward. I think your just insecure because you know hes nothing special AT ALL. And your calling me racist? Im not racist, your just biased because you wanna see an asian man do good and you know it. You dont like Lin for his skills, you like him for different reasons because if that were anybody else you wouldnt like him like I said. Not to mention I have chinese in me you dipchit. I said he doesn't care abnout you because im talking sports here and you start insulting me like your in love with the guy. HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here./ I know you wanna see him succeed and can respect that, theres nothing wrong with that. Its loyal and honorable of you. But the act it I have no problems with the guy at all, im just speaking on what I have seen so far from him, if he cant get it done in the pre-season he wont do much better in regular season and he DEFFINITALLY wont get it done in the playoffs. What you should have said back was "Hey jay, maybe its his injury he had that is holding him back from his shooting", and I doubt that's the case but regardless its a fair point and it's keeping it sports talk. Dont care a random stranger an idiot because its irrelevant and you dont know me. Your trying to hurt my feelings with lies because the truth that im speaking is hurting your feelings, well then you shouldnt be involving yourself with sports because thats the case and it has nothing to do with Lin personally
DeleteOh and Knicks get karma for what? Not re-signing Lin? God you are a joke. You are a joke, you know that? You wouldnt even knbow Lin if it weren't for us. Rockets cut his ass. And he had 12 good games then gets hurt because hes skinnier then a twig, he doesnt deserve 25 million for that, FACT. And thats just sports talk ad well. Its a business. You are sincerely crazy if you think Lin deserrved that. However, he may not have deserved a loaded contract like that but I do think the Rockets were the right team for him because there in rebuilding mode, whereas we want to win now.
Delete"Your saying its the same when you call me stupid?"
Delete- I'm saying you don't come into a JLin fan site and the FIRST POST out of you is WHY IS LIN SO OVERRATED, and you expect not to be called out. You keep saying we were hating on you bcos you were complementing KMart and not "worshipping" JLin. Wrong. We called you out for that TROLL POST. Then you insulted the entire PRC population ["one billion chinese"] by basically implying they are racists who will only support JLin for nothing but his race.
Just to be clear, I DON'T THINK YOUR STUPID. For crying out loud, I said that over and over, and still you don't get it. I was just mimicking you to let you understand how incendiary your post was. You claimed to have a higher education than me, how can you not get this? I was not insulting YOU, it was an ILLUSTRATION. [You're the one taking this personal.]
"Last night he wasd just bad, all out bad. And that makes me a hater to you although its the truth."
- This thing started before last night. What's last night's game got to do with this. You were crying all over the site accusing us of unfairly calling you out, well we have reasons to do so: It was your FIRST POST, where you basically just went "WHY IS LIN SO OVERRATED, Lin crap against Kmart, Lin sucks at ball nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING FACTS. Then you went on to insult the Chinese. THEN you try to justify your churlish behavior by saying you're half-chinese [So TFW?! Is that supposed to make OK your blanket statements on an entire population that were based on nothing but their race?]
"I hate Lin, hes never done anything to me."
Delete- No, hate is not what you feel for JLin. That's for us fans. Isn't that why you came here? Isn't that why you asked "Why is Lin so over rated?" [Yea, I'll keep posting this. I'm not letting you strawman out of this.] You came here to bash US. What do you care how we are? Why seek us out, just so you can mock us, insult us? Then turn around snd call foul when we call you out?
"But this called sports talk so if you insult me again im gonna call you out on it you little coward."
- I'M the coward? Weren't you the one hiding behind the legs of the other posters on here: "Waa, they're so mean to me! I was just asking an innocent question!" SMH.
"You dont like Lin for his skills, you like him for different reasons because if that were anybody else you wouldnt like him like I said."
- Jay, you will find people who like BOTH his skills and his other qualities. So? And who are you to set the rules on how people should be fans? [I'm tempted to direct you to some fangirls' site and just have you go through a meltdown just for fun, lol.]
"Not to mention I have chinese in me you dipchit."
- Stay classy, man.
"HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here."
Delete- This is a JLIN FAN SITE so learn how its done around here.
- Oh, and are you trying to show me up for being a lowly immigrant? Just...wow.
"if he cant get it done in the pre-season he wont do much better in regular season"
- Like how the Lakers won't get it done since they're 0-7, right? Why would JLin force himself and risk re-injuring his knee for PRESEASON games? o.O
"What you should have said back was "Hey jay, maybe its his injury he had that is holding him back from his shooting"
- I SAID THAT.
"Your trying to hurt my feelings with lies because the truth that im speaking is hurting your feelings"
- I was trying to get you to UNDERSTAND why you were called out.
"Knicks get karma for what?"
- Aren't you part of KnickNation? Nyk get Karma for what you are doing now, coming here to bash people who have done nothing to you. I don't care what that guy at ESPN did, that wasn't us. The media created the hype, that wasn't us.
"You wouldnt even knbow Lin if it weren't for us."
- Why do you keep saying that? YOU didn't know Lin before, we did, lol.
"Rockets cut his ass."
- So? The Nyk was going to cut him that week too. D'Antoni DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME.
"he doesnt deserve 25 million for that, FACT. And thats just sports talk ad well. Its a business. You are sincerely crazy if you think Lin deserrved that."
Delete- Lol, the most important person thought he deserved 25mil, the person who's actually paying the amount.
" I do think the Rockets were the right team for him because there in rebuilding mode, whereas we want to win now."
- And he would have been a great piece to have towards that. They were blowing out teams, before his knee happened.
Do you want him on the Nyk? Is this what this is? Why come in here all butthurt, lol did you think his fans had something to do with him being out of NY? What power do fans have?
I don't hate the Nyk, I hate what your FO did to him, how they continue to smear him. If your FO showed him some respect, if they would have given him an offer before FA, HE WOULD HAVE STAYED. HE WANTED TO STAY.
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DeleteYou know jay, all this is just depressing...
DeleteI can see how it can be annoying for a Nyk fan to have to deal with some Lin fans going off about JLin being GOAT or something. Some people are angry with what the Nyk FO did to JLin and maybe they bait Nyk fans on other forums.
To put it simply, though, I called you out FOR YOUR BEHAVIOR to us fans here, not your opinions on JLin.
Do you think you're the first person to think JLin is over-rated? but do they go onto JLin fan sites to troll and bash his fans? Why hate on fans who have done nothing to you? Then when you were called out, you try to turn it around to us bashing you, instead of standing by your initial behavior. [That's how I'd expect a man to be, you see. I grew up respecting the men in my family: They taught me that a man is born with dignity, and it is beneath a man to run away from his deeds.]
And I was not trying to insult you. Since you kept misunderstanding what you were called out for, I tried to show you how offensive your post was by basically imitating your post.
You say I'm biased and want to see an Asian man do well, that's why I support JLin. That's not it. JLin's success DOES NOTHING for asian men like those in my family, who are short [shorter than me], slender, un-athletic, quiet men working quiet jobs. I look up to them, and I wish JLin's success would improve things for them, but it wouldn't.
As for sticking up for JLin: True, hearing people bash JLin, it's as if it's my own brother they're doing that to. You know people wrote "traitor" on his GQ cover in NY? Why do they continue to believe that?! The Nyk wouldn't give him an offer, they told him to test FA! You kept saying "if it weren't for the Knicks" like we should be grateful, he should be grateful. Be grateful, be grateful, for what?
The poster @Unknown gets into a rage everytime we complain about unfair treatment, as if that's too much to demand. The ungrateful immigrants, right? We're already being given more than enough, why can't we be satisfied already, right? How dare we demand to be equals, right?
You said: "HES A SPORTS PLAYER in these are American sports so learn how its done around here" bcos Lin fans = chinese from China, right? [Ironic to be identified with them, since I myself have had some troubles with the chinese from China, but I guess to people like you -> we're all from China.]
Wow, looks like you missed me lol, sry yesterday was a special day for me. 1 year since a loved one passed away. Anyway, I have a question. how do i post on here without replying to comments? And did you see Lowry's game against the Grizz? That dude can play man. Wow. Oh how you feel about this Harden trade? I dont like it man, il be honest I sincerely dont like anything the Rockets have done. I dont even get most of it. Maybe it's just me, maybe basketball is evolving, the games changing.. I dont know
DeleteLol, yes I missed your charming self. [I hope such a one-yr anniversary wasn't too hard on you, jay. Sry to hear of this...]
Delete"how do i post on here without replying to comments?"
- Not sure what you mean. [There's a comment box at the bottom of the page..?]
About Harden, Rox trying to get him have been in the air for quite sometime, most here are high on him. Why not join the discussion here and here?
I think you'll enjoy posting here, and the regulars will enjoy your bball knowledge too. :)
Ha Seung-Jin. Now he was a real asian player. Ugly as all hell buthe was fun to watch and aggressive at center. And Yao Ming of course. Why Lin? Lin so over-rated its sad, he sucks. You just watch...
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ReplyDeletestop spamming.
Delete@JLinfan#1
DeleteWe are not spamming your site as we just want to share news about Jeremy Lin but you keep on deleting our comments and links.
So, we have to re-post our comments. Thank you.