Meanwhile, the haters are still gonna hate...http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/john_schuhmann/09/24/southwest-division-advanced-stats/index.html"Lin, of course, played great for a stretch of 26 games in New York last season. But while he had some impressive numbers, the Knicks won with defense, allowing 97.4 points per 100 possessions during that stretch. Not coincidentally, the teammate with whom Lin played the most minutes was Chandler.So the jury is still out on Lin. More of a sure thing is that Omer Asik will help the Rockets defensively. No player had a better on-court defensive rating than Asik over the last two seasons, with the Bulls allowing just 90.3 points per 100 possessions in his 1,961 minutes on the floor."
Tyson Chandler owes Lin some money for helping him win the Defensive Player of the Year Award. The Knicks were a solid defensive team before Lin showed up. Then they became an excellent defensive team after Lin appeared. Despite Carmelo Anthony leading the tanking of games, Lin still spearheaded the team defense and drastically reduced opponent point guard penetration. Tyson Chandler was a key beneficiary because the ability of big men to protect the paint is largely predicated on a team's ability to stop dribble penetration. I do expect Omer Asik to be at least a good a defender with Houston as he was with Chicago. Good defensive ability and good defensive rebounding do translate when players switch teams in the NBA (Lin himself is an example of that). But if Asik can double or triple his scoring (highly likely if he can merely catch the ball and shoot layups), then the Rockets will have a player who's not all that different from Chandler in production at a fraction of the cost. Lin is one of the best defensive point guards I've ever seen in the NBA. His amazing stats across the board on defense attest to that.
It was JLin that changed everything. The claim seems to be that team defense, and particularly Tyson that is the major contributing factor to Linsanity and not JLin. Tyson helped, but Tyson was there before Linsanity, but the Knicks were still losing. Team defense obviously helps win game, but if JLin entered with good individual defense and motivated others to play hard, then JLin was a major reason for the good team defence which supposedly was the major factor to Linsanity.
Yeah, NBA analysts just keep trying to make excuses why the Asian NBA guy can't actually play. As bad as the excuses were last season, it'll get STUPID this coming year especially if Lin merely continues to play like Lin. Imagine the anti Lin backlash if he makes the All Star team by continuing to put up All Star numbers? Soon every Lin doubter will be scouring D league rosters for the next Walker Russell or Chris Smith who's supposedly destined to put up better numbers than Lin already has!!!
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LinLandryNovakjeffrieschandlershumpertNovak was just like Lin before Linsanity and with jeremy he became a 3-point-machine. Landry was having a difficult season jeffries who? Shump was a pg and it was awful. .
Actually it was melo who broke the chemistry and jr who? The man who tries to outskill the opponent but if he can't just shoot in fade away ?.... C'mon .... Journalists... A question: do you think the turn overs were mainly cause Lin was tired? During Linsanity he played more than 40 minutes per game and you guys know it's not easy not to do mistakes when you're tired.Let's all pray for jlin for this season.... It'sgonna be tough this year but we must keep the faith
I sincerely believe that Lin's turnovers were due to poor team dynamics, not fatigue. Combine the tanking with the weak Knicks backcourt with all the double and triple teams thrown at Lin and OF COURSE Lin's going to turn the ball over. Lin was doing everybody's job for them while they were laughing and tanking. What's impressive is that guys like Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams and Steve Nash were turning the ball over at a similar rate or greater than Lin. Of course Lin got criticized while those other guys didn't. That's American racism, of course. Now that Lin has a new team with a coach that won't tolerate team mutineering, the turnovers should go down. I still think Lin will have high turnover numbers, simply because a low turnover number usually means a player isn't taking risks to win the game.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/09/27/knicks-2012-13-preview.nba/ charles barley is a jlin believer:) should i say supporter;)
charles barkley : "The NBA is not for older guys, it's for younger guys." lol... spot on!
Sir Charles spoke the truth. He agreed that the Knicks should have gotten JLin for $5M/yr for 2 years then have the option to amnesty him in the 3rd year if things don't work out. And he liked Camby and Kidd ... in 2010, not 2012. LOL. Good post!
Charles Barkley always tells the truth as he sees it. He is an outspoken guy but as unbiased as possible. Barkley also said that NBA does have bounty program, which people already knew anyway (at least in some form). I bet he thinks the NBA "trying" to address the flopping problem is a joke.
I also think the flip flop program is a joke. I had no trouble with flopping. It's part of the game and is entertaining. I ENJOY watching flopping! Personally, I think the NBA should fix its preferential superstar refereeing as opposed to its flopping. I despise how superstars like Lebron James and Kobe Bryant play under easier rules than D league callups. The same elbow thrown by Dwight Howard should be the same foul if it's thrown by a D league 10 day callup. The NBA's power structure would change overnight if referees called fouls the same on superstars. Suddenly the superteams would not be able to get away with uncalled fouls and the guys that could actually play (like Lin) would shine even brighter. Just be prepared for small market team championships as opposed to the WWE style scripted ending we've been tiredly seeing in the David Stern era!!!
Apparently, flopping is utilized more frequently by the "best" teams - especially in key plays. THAT'S CHEATING! However, CURRENTLY, the way games are officiated, IT CAN'T BE CALLED CHEATING, simply because many players do it -- in fact, you lose if you don't flop (just like you lose if you don't play dirty). In fact, Rondo said (in so many words) that he figured out the key to solving Jeremy Lin is to draw fouls from him (and he definitely meant FLOPPING), apparently because Lin can go past guys and attack the basket.HOWEVER, flopping SHOULD BE ILLEGAL because usually the "best" teams, more dirty teams (typically bigger markets), and "superstars" FLOP WAY MORE. And they do it when games are on the line. But, despite the rhetoric, NBA HAS NO INTENTION TO CURTAIL FLOPPING, as they are only talking about fining players and reviewing post-game; it's an absolute joke, in an effort to perpetuate the favoring of "superstars". If superstars are so-called because they are great players, why are they allowed to regularly get away with stuff that most players can't; THE NBA SHOULD HAVE MORE CONFIDENCE IN SUPERSTARS' SKILLS !!! On a side note, Rondo also said that Lin will have a tougher time this coming season because Lin will be scouted. But obviously Rondo himself and everybody else have already scouted Lin last season; Lin has been on every opponent's radar after just two (2) games !!!!!; Lin was also double and triple teamed more than Carmelo during Lin's 23 out of 25 starts. It doesn't take that long to scout someone in a hurry. By the way, Rondo is assuming that Lin has already peaked in *essentially* just a half of Lin's rookie season (25 starts). Yet it took Rondo himself (and many other superstars) 3 years for him to really get going!Rondo is one of my favorite players (my family are Celtics fan - and now Rockets also), but he is on the bandwagon like most people, when it comes to undermining and dismissing Jeremy Lin. So, the common knowledge that people improve (in any endeavor) through practice and experience doesn't apply to Jeremy Lin? What nonsense!
Fans pay the big money to see superstars do unbelievable things. Unfortunately, superstar things are usually accomplished via referee assistance. When I watch NBA games that involve big market teams or "name" superstars, I can barely watch because of the incredible violations the preferred teams get away with. For example, I can't stand watching Dwight Howard elbow and shove his way for position while his defenders are whistled for fouls trying to defend themselves from the illegal hits. Nor can I watch Dwayne Wade take that Euro twostep to run over people as opposed to making baketball plays. If referees stopped trying to influence games and simply called games, the NBA game would be cleaned up. It would also be BORING because superstars like Kobe couldn't get away with elbowing guys in the head from the triple threat position.
ESPN Poll: Appropriate penalty for flopping? http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8435036/appropriate-penalty-floppingTechnical foul (so far 67%)..... or Fine (18%)..... or No penalty (15%)Technical foul penalty: One free throw for the opposing team and possession.Thus far, NBA itself *only* mentioned fine after postgame review - which the NBA commissioner, David Stern, calls "a minimalist way". Geez, why bother? That would only make things more unfair to POOR players/teams. Maybe it's for killing 2 birds with 1 stone: Give the appearance of trying to do something about it, while it would further give an unfair advantage to "superstars" and big-market teams.
Found this interesting tidbit about Jeremy Lin onhttp://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2012/9/27/3416180/santa-cruz-warriors-d-league-kirk-lacob-jeremy-lin"I can tell you, Jeremy Lin was livid about going to the D-League. He wanted so badly to be in the NBA. And he and I used to have talks every time I'd see him in Reno. He'd be like, 'I'm just telling you, I'm perfectly fine being here. I'm not throwing a fit - I never will. But I'm telling you I'm going to be back in the NBA and I'll never be in the D-League again.' He kept telling me. The summer before we cut him he said, 'Just so you know – I will never play again in the D-League. That's not only a goal - it's a fact.'"
That triple double at Erie was pretty impressive and done with almost no effort. However, his passing in my opinion is too predictable in that you almost see the passes coming. In the coming season, I will be very interested in seeing whether he can also "create" good passing opportunities with his own movements and whether his outside shooting has improved.
Good post, Mr. Screwup. Thanks for finding that link. Jeremy Lin dominated the D League the way a bona fide NBA star should. He basically did no wrong in the D League, earning an All D League selection and prolonging the NBA careers of several players including Jerome Jordan, Steve Novak, and Danny Green.
I agree with eb5attorney, I notice that Jlin often forces tough passes through traffic, and these get picked off and deflected too easily. He should use the Bounce Pass more often, as these are more difficult for the defense to anticipate and intercept. Also, when the receiving player catches a bounce pass, he can get into the shooting motion faster, leading to more accurate shots.
That sounds right about JLin's passes being too easy to read. I think he referred to these passes in his Q&A, so he has probably worked on it during the summer. Hopefully this translates into even more assists and less turnovers."JCF: So when you go back and look at the film of your play last year, what are you critiquing and what are you specifically picking apart?JL: Definitely I find myself in the air too much. I need to stay on the ground and not get caught in bad situations. I have to cut down on lazy passes. Coach McHale calls them “same plane” passes where it’s one spot and I just fire in a direct line; I have to use more deception and different angles. Then I just have to solidify my left hand and dribbling and keeping guys from reaching in. Those things accounted for most of my turnovers last year." Passing with either hand may also help create better passing angles:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhkx5ovweQg (Steven Nash on passing)
I saw nothing wrong at all with Lin's passing. What's wrong with making SIMPLE passes that get the job done? Lin and his D league teams destroyed everyone. I don't see why Lin has to become Hardwood Houdini, especially since his teams won like crazy. While Lin will have to be more deceptive at the NBA level, I expect his turnovers to decrease simply because his tanking Knick teammates won't be around to refuse to cut or catch the ball.
@ KHuang I don't think its an issue of style of passing (such as being more "Houdini" like), but more of as you said, being more deceptive to create passing angles. If simple passes are there, great, he should make those plays. No point in doing a no-look behind the back if the simple chest pass is there. But when teams take away those simple passes, then its about creating a passing lane by positioning yourself with movement, changing speeds, and using a variety of passes to become more deceptive.
I agree with the point about teammates unmotivated to move and making it harder to find any open man, resulting in To's. I expect the young guys on his current team to be eager beavers and more motivated to move to open passing lanes by cutting etc.
It's not all on Lin to become a better passer. If Lin's Rockets teammates come to the ball like they're aupposed to, there'll be little need for deceptive fancy passing. Often a guy can fake out his pwn teammates with fancy passing. Just ask Magic Johnson who constantly surprised teammates with open looks.
Yeah I think I see what you are trying to say. A passing lane has has two ends, if one end refuses to catch the ball, there's not point in JLin becomes Hardwood Houdini!
There are 3 types of passes: Passes that make it to their targets, passes that do not make it to their targets, and passes that make it to their targets and give your team a better chance of scoring. Giving your teammates a better chance to score can be achieved through pass accuracy (there is an ideal spot in almost every situation where your teammate will not have to adjust, contort, reach backwards, or reset to the starting point of their shot) and deception (giving your teammate(s) more time and/or space before a defender obstructs them). I think being more deceptive is a bit like playing poker because you have to keep your opponent(s) guessing: Is he going to make a "simple" play or a flashy "Houdini" play? And as long as you keep your opponents guessing you'll have a good chance at success. Being predictable and having tendencies (tells" in poker) is where you get into trouble because opponents will be able to read you and prepare for your actions. It's a lot to think about especially at game speed, but I think Jeremy has the right approach which is to take what defenses give him. If Jeremy takes that mindset and pairs it with his high basketball IQ, he will be just fine. How often does the same flashy pass work twice? And how often do we see a flashy play nullified by a routine play at the other end? Style points are one of the things that makes basketball great to watch, but it's not what wins games (which I think we'd much rather see Jeremy do).Let's not also forget that there a whole 4 other teammates on the floor with Jeremy who need to MOVE WITHOUT THE BALL! Move to the right place at the right time, set off-ball screens, and just plain get open for the PG to find you and hit you with the ball at just the right spot on your body and at just the right point in your stride.
JLin's assessment is correct that sometimes he makes "on plane" passes (Coach McHale's term) or lazy passes or "telegraphed" passes when he stops and looks directly at the receiver. These can be easily intercepted when quick defenders slip to the passing lane.I remember last season when he made the comment that he got tired and made a few lazy passes that got intercepted. I thought Coach Woodson helped him by talking on the sideline or pulled him out for a while so he didn't have more TOs.
Let me clarify what I am talking about. I am not talking about "Houdini" type of passes or "fancy" passes at all, but adjusting your speed (slowing and picking up speed), looking other way, changing your speed to find the right speed and angle to pass the ball. Of all PGs I have seen, Rondo does this the best. His simple passes are even more effective because he does this, even though he is not the fastest PG in NBA.
That's fine about Rondo and all, but it's easier to vary one's passes to Hall of Fame teammates that actually are in the spots they're supposed to be as opposed to trying to deliver passes to tanking teammates who are trying their hardest NOT to be in the spots they're supposed to be. The point guard can try to set the pace all he wants, but he can't pull entire teams along especially if they're tanking. Red Auerbach and Larry Bird staged an "argument" about passing where Red blamed bad passes on the guy
... catching the ball while Bird blamed them on the guy throwing the ball. Of course, both guys "agreed" that both the passer AND the receiver had to be working together, which is something Jeremy Lin has not had in his NBA career.
KHuang,What happened to you is exactly why I wish this forum implements editing feature. I had to delete a number of times and then repost because my laptop's keypad is too darn sensitive to the slightest touch. Ugh.
While I agree that Jlin's Knicks teammates often failed to catch passes delivered on spot, Rondo and Rubio to me are the only PGs in NBA who can wow me with their passes. Rondo's passes, although seemingly flashy, are very fundamentally sound; it's the way Rondo delivers the ball that are very hard to anticipate. He is like a cagey pitcher who can throw all kinds of off-speed stuff, not just fast balls and change ups. Rondo is in a class by himself when it comes to passing and freezing opponents. Now, only if he can improve his shooting more, he would be unstoppable. Man, if Rondo joined Miami Heat, they would win 5 Championships in a row.
Is it me, or am I just not impressed by Ricky Rubio the way everyone is? While Rubio is a fine young talent, I do not consider him a truly elite PG talent the same way I don't consider Rajon Rondo an elite PG talent either. Like Rondo, Rubio CAN'T SCORE. I generally am not impressed by basketball players who can't score unless they bring massive positives in other areas. I'm also not as impressed by Rubio's court vision the way everybody is. Like Rondo, Rubio is so focused on passing that he neglects his own scoring. I
https://twitter.com/ChandlerParsons/status/247394195151659008/photo/1its the couch!
Which NY Knicks player made the most impact during 2011-2012 Regular Season (when playing)? NBA.com +/- stats says it's our own JLin.I got curious to see what the +/- differential for NY Knicks 2011-2012 season. This should tell us the overall impact of a player (or combination of players) on the overall team offense/defense whenever he enters the game.Did JLin actually have a big impact on the overall team defense and offense when he was in the games? The answer will surprise you. (Spoiler: JLin is #1 at +4.06 per game!)Check out my analysis that includes some charts so it's easier to read. Tell me what you think if you agree with how I did my analysis.http://toondad.blogspot.com/2012/09/who-made-most-impact-in-ny-knicks-2011.html
Excellent analysis. Daryl Morey, the purported stats geek ("purported" because his reputation for actually USING stats is more hype than substance), said only one thing that I agreed with:Stats are important as a tool used in conjunction with traditional scouting. Basketball is an exact science with inexact observations. Ideally one's observation of who's actually doing well in games matches up with what a player is doing statistically. In the case of Jeremy Lin, he's a fantasy basketballer's dream pickup. Lin's game is aimed at only one thing: make the correct basketball play in order to win the game. Players like that often play "within themselves" and are willing to make the subtle plays that lead to overall team victory as opposed to individual glory. What I like about Psalm234's thorough analysis is that it DRAMATICALLY highlights the statistical differences between "team guys" like Fields and Lin vs. the "me first" guys like Anthony and Stoudemire!
Thanks for the feedback, KHuang.My old statistics professor told me about Mark's Twain quote "There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics".There are so many statistics used and manipulated out there that can be misleading. I felt like we as casual fans know from watching Jeremy Lin how he can look dominant on both offense and defense. He seems to be a step faster to always get in the lane to score and quick enough on defense to get steals and other little things (deflections, help defense) that don't necessarily get recorded in the official statistics. We just need to find a good way to back up what our eyes can see.I think +/- stats is perfect to measure the overall impact of a player in the game in both offense and defense. It truly uncovers the weakness of great scorers (Melo and Amare) who are not good in defense. Even Barkley in the NBA video said the same thing about them being not so good in defense. If only NBA/ESPN highlights this more, maybe Melo and Amare will work more on their defensive skills.I like what you said "Lin's game is aimed at only one thing: make the correct basketball play in order to win the game". And the scary thing is he is already leading the average +/- even with some purported weakness (prone to TOs, not going left enought, etc.). He can get even better.I do take this +/- with a grain of salt. JLin is #1 for the Knicks in AVERAGE +/- per game in 35 games but only 3rd in the TOTAL +/- because he was sidelined by injuries. That's why I think the #1 priority for him in Houston is to stay healthy throughout the season. Can he balance his strength of attacking the basket with longevity? I sure hope so.
Testing adding link. I wish blogger makes this easierJeremy Lin Made the Most Impact for NY Knicks during 2011-2012 Regular Season (When Playing)For others, you can use this template:<a href="URL">Title</a>Replace the URL with the URL of the site you are linking to and replace the Title with the title of the site.
It's a good thing that I'M not in charge of creating statistical categories. Here are some of the unrealistic stats that I likely subconsciously follow:1) Crowd volume ratio. How much change in volume does a player generate when he enters or leaves a game? 2) Contested jump shot percentage. I count all attempts at contesting jump shots the same, be it a blocked shot or a tip or a hand in the face or crowding. 3) Trap escapes. When traps come, can the offensive player successfully evade them? 4) Complainometer. How much does a player complain on the court? Vs teammates or opponents or crowd or refs? 5) Physical chemistry. Certain players actively try to pump up their teammates and themselves with gestures. +1 for positive gestures, -1 for negative ones. 6) Shred-o-scope. It's one thing scoring when left completely unguarded (e.g. Rajon Rondo), it's another thing scoring against double teams spearheaded by the NBA's top defenders. For example, in the Utah game Jeremy Lin caught the ball on the right against Raja Bell, PICKED Bell off Bell's teammate Al Jefferson, and beat a 3rd Utah defender for a reverse layup!9) Helping hands: How often does a teammate come to a teammate's help on either end of the court? 10) Oo-o-meter. How often does a player do a move that leaves the crowd oohing and aahing? George Karl said that John Stockton would do at least one play a game which was so amazing his head would spin like Linda Blair's did in "The Exorcist". Jeremy Lin does more than one of those every game.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/09/25/houston-rockets-season-preview.nba http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/09/27/knicks-2012-13-preview.nba/kenny smith and charles barkley is a believer/supporter :)
I LOVED watching Barkley punk himself when he had to kiss that ass on TV after he proclaimed Yao Ming would never score more than 20 points in a single game in his rookie season. Kenny Smith was hilarious when he brought out that ass for Barkley to smooch his lips to. I don't think Smith will or even should let Barkley live life without constantly reminded Barkley that he's an asskisser. The funniest thing though isn't just that Barkley kissed ass. Barkley could've picked any part of the ass to kiss. He picked the ass's ASS. Charles Barkley has always been one of my favorite players, and I always thought that his NBA bully act was cute as opposed to classless. My Taiwanese grandmother has a personality identical to Barkley, so he's her favorite player. She even calls him "Hwaih Bah Beehn", or "Wide Meat Face" in Taiwanese!
I love Sir Charles! He can definitely laugh at himself by kissing the ass. No wonder the "TNT Inside the NBA" show with Ernie and Kenny won multiple Emmy awards.Charles Barkley Kisses Donkeys Ass
mchale interview of the workout.McHale Interview
His comments on JLin:- Health Coming off knee surgery last spring, he looks good but I don't think he's 100%- Rhythm and Pace of game After looking at all his possessions and rhythm with other players in NY last year, I like a lot of them. We need to find the right rhythm with other players (in Houston). When he plays with pace, he's very good at that.Looks like McHale wants Jeremy to play with fast pace?
> Coming off knee surgery last spring, he looks good but I don't think he's 100%This makes me worry...
Seems to me that McHale's comments are on Jeremy's level of play, rather than his knee...It's understandable that Jeremy won't be 100% as far as his playing condition goes, since he's at the start of camp.
Kevin McHale literally beat his players into shape last year. Kyle Lowry whined in the press about how neither he nor Goran Dragic would play for McHale in 2012-2013. Lowry was right. On the other hand, Dragic enjoyed his best season ever due to McHale's tutelage. Dragic was nothing more than a bench scrub on his way out of the NBA before McHale basically bullied him into becoming a player. My take: Lin's knee is fine, but Lin's overall physical conditioning needs lots of work for it to get to the CHAMPIONSHIP level that McHale is trying to get him to! McHale is looking GOOD as a coach to me. Whip Lin into shape!!!
I don't doubt that JLin will get into great physical shape - I can't wait to see him become a bruising presence in the backcourt, who intimidates and bullies other PGs and SGs with a take-no-prisoners attitude! What kind of on-court personality did Dragic have? Was there alot of McHale rubbing of on him?
It HAD to be McHale teaching Dragic how to play. Dragic was a SCRUB, even with Rick Adelman as his coach. McHale turned Dragic's career around. The Suns would never have traded him had McHale not toughened up his game.
9/25 interviewsRoyce WhiteDMO Interview
Morey AMA on Reddit with some comments on Linhttp://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/10mrkx/iam_the_houston_rockets_gm_ama/
Eye-opening quote from Daryl Morey on Jeremy Lin:"Lin played at an all-star level last year. Even if he does not maintain that level (likely), both he and Asik increase our flexibility and get us closer to our goals. I also like that Lin has already played for a small yet not insignificant stretch at an all-star level. This increases his odds -- up and down the roster that is the primary thing we are trying to do -- increase our odds of developing or acquiring an all-star level player."If you read between the lines, what he's saying is Lin played some games at an all-star level last year but it is likely that he will not continue that level of play, i.e. he's not a top 10-20 player. Nonetheless, he thinks he and/or Asik can be packaged in a trade to get an all-star down the road or he can be developed to become an all-star player.Take it for what it's worth. But that's from the Rockets GM mouth (or keyboard). This just supports what I've been saying all along... a lot of posters here think Jlin is already a top 20 player in the league and anybody in the media who says otherwise is being racist. I've been bashed for taking that side of that argument and branded as a self-hating Asian. LOL. I want Jlin to succeed and become the best PG in the NBA but that day is still yet to come. And unfortunately, there is a possibility that that day will never come also. Not hating. Just being realistic.
Look - your negativity and downplaying of Lin's abilities and masking it as "reality" is why you get bashed on this site which is his fan site. I and many of us do declare him to have demonstrated to be a top 10 - 20 player. The only thing being questioned is longevity, given he only completed his 2nd year. I don't think ANYONE in NBA history was declared a consistent all-star early in their career.I think your interpretation is one sided. Based on Morey's comments he also notes that Lin has played at an all star level for a significant stretch (if you read between the lines... a GOOD SAMPLE size), increasing his odds to be an all star player, which is part of the goal of DEVELOPING or acquiring an all star. Other thing you missed on the reddit link is he considered Lin a smart risk. To me, that means JLin has provided enough proof to develop into an all star. I interpret that as maintaining an all star performance which he demonstrated last season as opposed to your comment of the possibility that he will never become elite. Again, based on what he has demonstrated, what is the likelihood that he would do worse than last year and never be an all star, given he is young, athletic, smart, charismatic, competitive and has a killer instinct when it comes to winning? What are the signs that you've seen in Lin's history and patterns and demonstrated current skills, never mind his demonstrated EXTREME willingness and focus to improve, that would indicate he could never be elite?
Every young player is expected to improve. Even someone like Felton is expected to improve from his last horrible season. Only Lin is expected by so many to regress. I want to know Morey's or MrScrewup's reasonings. I really think Morey's "likely" prediction is totally off or he might also just want to avoid looking bad just in case Lin screws up. Still he showed little confidence in Lin and overall talent evaluating incompetence. I think Lin will make him lucky though. I guess it's better to be lucky than good.
I was a bit surprised before at the degree of aversion to contrarian viewpoints but not anymore... please go ahead and bash me. Anything that cannot be defended is not worth stating so I welcome it. I do not look for negativity where there is none. This is his exact quote: "Even if he does not maintain that level (likely), both he and Asik increase our flexibility and get us closer to our goals." He said it's LIKELY Lin does not maintain that level. He didn't say it's possible, he said it's likely. At any rate, I'm not here to convince anybody of anythying. You made up your minds long time ago not to believe any contrarian viewpoints so no worries. I am not here to please anybody and I will continue to post what I want to post.
We are not bashing you, MrScrewup. But I just don't see how Morey's "likely" prediction has more weight than the posters' "top 10 player" prediction here. Both are predictions after all, you know.
@ Screwup - well, the negativity comment was for when you said that Jlin may never be elite. When it comes to a contrarian viewpoint, i only respect that if they can bring something to the table which is evidence that Jlin has some major flaw that would be very difficult to surmount and can never be overcome. So far, I have not heard of a contrarian viewpoint that would indicate that JLin will never be an all-star due to his skills, talent, athleticism and mindset alone. Bringing in someone else's opinion/prediction that it is unlikely JLin can be an all star is not enough of a contrarian point of view to sway any of his fans that he can't be one. So, please present your contrarian viewpoint that demonstrates evidence that JLin will never be elite due to significant flaws that he has that are insurmountable.
@martan, there is no guarantee in life of anything. You can be the smartest hardworking guy but it doesn't guarantee you will be rich or successful. You put the odds in your favor by working hard but there is no guarantee. I am not here to try to convince anybody that Jlin will never be elite so why would I be looking for evidence to prove something I don't believe in? On the contrary, I honestly hope to God he will be the best PG in the NBA and a future Hall of Famer. The only point I've made is that the one GM in the NBA who offered Jlin a contract himself does not think Jlin is a top 20 player yet which I agree with. Does that make me a Jlin hater? In your minds yes. In my mind, no. I call it as I see it. You obviously disagree but like I said - no worries. You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
I respect your view too, Mr Screwup. I took issue with some of the things you wrote that I perceived as Asian bashing, but I haven't written anything since and don't intend to.You are right that Lin is not considered an elite player nor is paid like one. Many things can derail even the most promising NBA career. I personally feel that Lin has already performed at an elite level and will continue to. There's no pg in basketball I'd rather have on my team, and it's not because Lin is Asian. He does all the things I want to see elite pgs doing.
I don't have anything against Morey's comment about Lin. That's exactly how I feel. Lin is an elite player, but not in the top 20 yet. However, Lin's improvement will be huge as he plays more and more. ESPN ranked Lin #78, which is quite good! Remember he is still very young with little experience (basically a half of one season)and will improve rapidly. The only reason they didn't rank Lin higher is because of the number of games he actually played (although ESPN didn't use the same method for draft picks). One of the Questions that Morey answered is that he knows a player's value change depending on what system he plays in and the teammates surrounding the player. Although he obviouslt wouldn't say, I believe Morey knew Lin's stats would go down (as per Lin's own notice to that fact at a couple of press conferences) when Woodson became the head coach; and no doubt Morey was also aware that there were serious locker room problems in NY. Thus, a smart guy that Morey is, he took all that into consideration when evaluating a player..... Also, it's smart of Morey to not *publicly* expect too much of Lin - for a number of reasons.I am just so relieved that Woodson is no longer Lin's boss.
Uh, I wouldn't count on Daryl Morey knowing the details of how the lack of team chemistry negatively affected Lin's production. Just because Daryl Morey is buried in fancy stats doesn't mean that he understands or even uses them. Morey himself said that he cut Lin despite statistical analysis showing Lin to be a top prospect. Still, I saw nothing negative about what Morey says. Jeremy Lin has to put on that Rockets uniform and show his dominance on the court.
For what it's worth, I agree with MrScrewup that JLin is not in top 20 right now. JLin would be the first one to agree, not out of humbleness but because he really believes it. At any rate, I think we won't have to wait too long before it becomes clear whether JLin will be able to take Rockets to PO this year. If someone forced me to make a prediction now, I think JLin's numbers this year will be 15 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals and 4 TOs per 34 minutes. I don't see JLin scoring or needing to score that much this year. I agree that Morey did not say anything negative or even implied such.
I'd predict Lin's stats to be: 19 Points 9 Assists 5 Reb 2 Steals 3 TOs
I have to agree with KHuang on a few points here:1.JLin has played at an elite level. Morey also stated that in reddit.2.However, he is not considered by others as an elite player. I'm assuming because of longevity or the usual comment of "too small of a sample size."3.There is a likelihood that he continues to play at a high level. As mentioned in my previous posts, he has the right "tools" to maintain and even improve his play.4.Yes- things can happen to derail a very promising NBA career.. I just don't think it will be because of JLin's character, skills, and mindset. If there is a derailer, I think it may come from outside of JLin where he won't have control.As for not being in the top 20, well I think he should be at least close to it. If Kyrie Irving is considered to be ranked at # 22, then JLin should be right next to him. I just don't believe that Kyrie outplayed Jeremy THAT much if at all last season. I guess it's that eyeball test again that Lin failed.@Screwup - I'm not labeling you a Lin hater. I just think that people just want to hedge and at least to me sound negative about Lin's capabilities. Yes -there is always a chance that things don't work out. But what is the likelihood of that given the track record that JLin has provided? I just see the glass as 3/4 full vs. half empty. Anyway, you're correct. You are entitled to your opinion as am I and we can agree to disagree when it comes to JLin's potential and his ability to reach it .
Lol, MrScrewup, way to undermine Lin by using stupid argument!Hey, Daryl Morey is by no means the be all and end all. His opinion doesn't mean anything! I think he highly underestimated Lin. In fact, I really think he's overrated as a talent evaluator. He used stats but like so many those stupid scouts he wouldn't believe his stats when it came to Lin, instead of believing the "looks" or lack of. Otherwise he wouldn't have cut Lin in the 1st place. And I highly suspect Rockets owner Les Alexander was the real intelligent man who appreciated Lin's talents and pushed to re-acquire him, not Morey. Morey's just an employee of Alexander, let's not forget.
I think so too that it was Alexander pushing Morey to re-acquire Lin. I remember Morey said in an interview that Alexander hung up on him during a phone conversation when he saw Lin hit the game winner on TV.I don't really care what Morey, commentators, players of other teams, or haters say now about Lin. Lin will prove himself by his good performance and shut them up.
I have NO IDEA why Daryl Morey is seen as a genius. Is it because he's white and articulate, just like Lin is supposed to be incapable of playing in the NBA because he's Asian?Daryl Morey has said some insane things that I shake my head at. For example, he said that Tracy McGrady didn't work hard enough on his game. I violently disagreed with that because McGrady is an incredibly hard worker who's still trying to hang on in the NBA despite legs that blew apart likely because he overworked himself. Morey pulled that same criticizing stunt on Marcus Banks who he said was more interested in being a model than NBA player. While Marcus Banks is not even an average NBA player, he has always been a solid professional. Like McGrady, Banks fired back at Morey in the papers and Morey had to apologize. Daryl Morey strikes me as a very intelligent numbers man who doesn't have a feel for the NBA game or the people involved in it. Besides, this whole Lin thing has opened my eyes to how much Les Alexander "meddles" in his team daily running. It's at the point for me where I don't even care what comes out of Morey's mouth because Les Alexander is the real decisionmaker for his Houston Rockets.
Daryl Morey actually said that Tracy McGrady was better than Kobe Bryant in their mutual prime (which Kobe still is in, by the way?)No, I disagree. Kobe Bryant is a much more multifaceted and dynamic game changer than the one dimensional if spectacular McGrady. I also thought that people expected too much out of Tracy McGrady. For all of his athletic talent, Tracy McGrady wasn't at an elite level when it came to understanding the ground game.
@KHuang,Yep. I visited the reddit link and scanned through Qs that Morey answered, and one of the Q was who he thought was better in their prime (McGrady or Kobe); and he simply answered *McGrady*.I have deleted the prior post (because there is no editing feature) because (without going into detail) I just want to say that I like Obama and I like Les Alexander.
There was nothing offensive in your deleted post, ztrta. I don't know anything about what really goes on in politics, so I have zero opinion on Obama. I do admire Les Alexander, especially his vicious streak. To me, it seems that Les Alexander is an emotional kind of guy who lives life by instinct. Thus Daryl Morey is the rational numbers analysis guy that provides a spreadsheet practicality to Les Alexander's dreamer schemer visions.
@KHuang,Chuckle. I was trying avoid saying that I deleted the post because I said I like Mor*y. What I deleted was "I like Mor*y, although I like Les Alexander more". Mor*y may be smart, and seemed likeable to me - until I read that he thinks R will make a great leader. I can't like anyone who supports an extreme r wing rac*st pres who will ruin this country like the 8 yrs.
Daryl Morey made the basketball decision and les alexander made the business decision. When push comes to shove les wins. Simple as that. You can't tell me les knows statistics like Daryl. But i do give les credit for having the wherewithall to want Lin on his team. But you can't have the decision to acquire Lin without Daryl to begin with. In essence you needed both to be on the same page. Daryl openly admitted he made a mistake and he rectified that mistake by reacquiring Lin. What other GM has done that so far. None. So give Daryl lots of credit here. However in Daryl's eyes every player is a statistic and expendable when the time comes.
There is no way Daryl Morey makes bball decision on his own. He might be MIT smart but given his background and what he's said and shown so far, his bball knowledge is likely not better the average joes on this forum.
I think Daryl knows what he's doing. Trust me. He's been doing this for awhile. Come on now. He got Lin back. Im not gonna bash Daryl after what he's done and one upsmanship on the Knicks management. You can't tell me he's no better than an average joe and "his opinion doesn't mean anything". Hey MIT is MIT. Whether you believe it or not MIT and HARVARD is what brought lin over to Houston. That's the fact. I would choose Daryl anyday if Im gonna rebuild the team in the mode of OKC. There's no denying he had great draft picks. Now if i wanted to rebuild through free agency like the Lakers, I wouldn't choose Daryl. However i have a feeling he would do extremely well if he had an owner who's willing to spend with abundance. For all we know he's stuck between a rock and a hard place where manuevers are limited by finance. For now it may seem like he has no game plan to rebuild. For example, rumors were they could have had Dwight Howard to play alongside Lin if they included a little more in the deal. But he and Les couldn't pull the trigger. I think that was a mistake. For one, a guy like Dwight doesn't come very often. You're not gonna get another chance at a guy like that in a long long time. Two, to win a championship in the NBA rebuilding through free agency is a better bet than rebuilding from scratch. I don't think i need to give an example of that. Think lotto teams vs. historical teams. Time will tell how these young players will develop. But so far Daryl has done a good job with what he's got.
Daryl Morey doesn't run the Houston Rockets. Les Alexander does. Through the whole Jeremy Lin re-signing, Les Alexander was front and center in staging the events. Everything Les set up this summer was to acquire Jeremy Lin for his Rockets team. Morey helped Les Alexander make it happen. For a team to rebuild like OKC, you have to lose like OKC did. Never forget the 3-30 stretch that Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook endured. If Houston goes through a stretch like that in 2012, even a bandwagon Lin fan like me would jump ship!
That's purely speculation. However, Les had alot of vested interest in making this move to acquire Lin. It's a shrewd business decision. Now hopefully that is the end of Les mingling if the speculation holds true. Having an owner who mingles too much is never good. In essence, you're undermining the GM and his theories of running a team. Counterproductive. Not good for Lin either
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