Saturday, August 18, 2012

Rockets Preview - CP25

The Houston Rockets 2012-2013 roster is still in flux but one guy who is very unlikely to be moved is CP25, Chandler Parsons. He was a big surprise last season, starting 57 out of 63 games, as a rookie second round pick.

Initially, I was skeptical of him being the starting 3. However, after doing a little homework I'm starting to buy in. With a nice all around game,  I look for him to have a breakout season playing with Jeremy. Also, his nice handle will take some of the ball handling load off of JLin.  Check him out, even Kobe has a few nice words for him:








114 comments:

  1. People are sleeping on the rockets. They might end up in the playoffs.

    They have so much talent on their team.

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  2. He is surprisingly very athletic w/ quick hands and a very good shooter.

    LOL the way he rode Javale McGee at the video mix (see 1:06). Reminds me of Jeremy Lin's video riding KevJumba :)

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    1. here is the Jeremy's video with KevJumba (see 0:22)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KymX-1GGgWY

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  3. Parsons could really get up above the rim in a hurry!

    Plus, he's not shy after he owns someone. Check out the stare down on Griffin off the rebound dunk. The kid's got some swagger.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GFsFGlbiBg

    From highlights of a game against OKC, he brings the ball up the court as if he is the point guard, executing some good passes on the fly. That's pretty impressive ball handling and passing for a guy of his size. Is Parsons a PF or a SF?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IseXHBHfg0

    He looks like a more skilled version of Landry. I can expect to see JLin throwing passes to Parsons during fast breaks and off cuts and curls, and for Parsons to finish strong at the rim. Parsons definitely looks capable of finishing some lob plays, perhaps even off the P&R.

    He does have a smooth shot, although it reminds me of Metta World Peaces' form for some reason. I don't know what to feel about that. I guess as long as he drains those shots it should be fine.

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  4. Chandler already has good chemistry with Jeremy Lin, the Point Guard, so we can expect couple easy points per
    game. And if Jeremy Lamb, being a sharp shooter already, is working as hard as reported, he will be like a more athletic Steve Novac.

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  5. Parsons will fill the Landry Fields role quite nicely.

    His unselfish all-around game is an ideal complement to Lin, so expect a ton of spectacular alley-oops, cuts along the baseline (for dunks), and wide-open 3s for Parsons.

    And off the court, he's already reached out to Jeremy and welcomed him like an old friend. In fact, when rumors of Lin's initial offer sheet came out, Parsons was the first (and only?) Rocket to tweet his excitement about playing with him.

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    1. Let's hope Chandler Pardons is a better shooter than Landry. That's his most important asset at that position, the entire Rockets team should be working out with Doc Scheppler.

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  6. Chandler talks about JLin on J&R
    http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/07/19/my-friend-jeremy-lin-and-the-rockets/

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  7. Chandler Parsons idolized Larry Bird.

    I say let Chandler Parsons watch the "Winning Basketball" video in which Larry Bird teaches how he plays. Kevin McHale is in the video too, demonstrating post play and shot blocking and pick and roll.

    Jeremy Lin could benefit from watching the video too. Dennis Johnson (now deceased) teaches defense. He teaches a defensive stance with one foot forward and also teaches how to hold your arms against the triple threat. Plus DJ teaches how to steal from dribblers without fouling.

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  8. Let me first say that Jeremy Lin is not a pure point guard. He is a combo guard. His natural postion is the SG. He may have a good court vision but his struggles are very apparent. His turnovers under MDA were due to the fact that a SG was forced to play point guard 95% of the time. Even an experienced Nash average a lot of turnovers under a point guard-dominated offense. So an inexperienced player will surely average more (he averaged 4.7 as a starter; 3.6 in 26 mins).

    That is the reason he struggled against Miami and Boston. His flaws as a PG were magnified against elite teams since they've already adjusted to Lin. He was overused by MDA. Under Woodson, his numbers went down since they play in a much slower pace and they were literally dominating the opposing teams. His ability to run the offense improved. His defense also improved. His Turnovers went down significantly since he was not forced to be steve nash like what MDA did. Woodson placed Jeremy in a more structured offense and allowed Jeremy to play off-ball more often. His weaknesses were minimized because he played in a system like in his college days wherein he is a wing player that can sometimes play point guard.

    This idea was previously stated by Eric a few months ago. If the rockets can play Jeremy as a pg 50-60% of the time instead of 90% of the time, then jeremy's efficiency will drastically improve. Playing him as pg full-time will make him inefficient (especially at this stage of his career). His ballhandling has improved but still shaky at times. Playing as a wing player will benefit him a lot. I really think he sometimes loses his aggressiveness when he tries too much to get others involve. There's nothing wrong trying to get others involve but he should not be hesitant in penetrating to the basket.

    Jeremy Lin reminds me of Manu Ginobli. I really think he's the player that jeremy has a lot of similarities. Ginobli can play point guard for some time but he does not run the offense 90% of the time. This is the reason of his low turnovers and high efficiency. If you imagine Ginobli being put to the same situation as J Lin I'm pretty sure he'll have a lot of TOs like J/ Lin.

    I suggest Royce white play some PG with Lin on the floor. It would really relieve a lot of pressure from J. Lin. Now, he can just go back and play back to his natural position. Jeremy Lin can play pg efficiently against bad to mediocre teams (maybe some slightly good teams).
    However, he is only average pg against elite teams such as Boston and Miami. He still needs to learn a lot in running the offense full time.

    Jeremy is generally a scorer. A very good scorer. His scoring ability is what separates him from Dragic, Lowry, Rubio, Conley, Lawson and other young point guards. I really think he would excel and maybe shoot above 50% when he plays shooting guard 40-50% of the time.

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    1. I disagree he is PG because of his vision. Magic Johnson had great court vision too but he was a "point forward " not a full time PG when he came into the nba. His ball handling got better and he made the switch to full time PG.

      Lin is going through the same transition he will have less Turnovers because he is smart and is not playing in the MDA system.

      BTW
      a lot of players have bad games against the heat. Look at Jame harden.

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    2. NBA PG, unlike college, must be a scoring threat. He must have the respect of the defense. Otherwise the defender can block passing lane or double up on another player. The NBA Analysts like Jeremy because he is a true triple threat: pass, shot, or drive. Similarly his ability to score enable him to run very effective PnR.

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    3. Wow...just wow. Lin has been playing the point since he started playing ball. He has the feel and instincts of a PG.

      Too many people don't have a clue about the game. Seriously, stop.

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    4. Don't get me wrong, he has great court vision and he's a good passer. My only point is that he struggles as a PG against tough teams such as Heat, Celtics, 2nd game vs Dallas, 1st game Philly and even the Bulls. He was forced into playing point guard full time. That is the reason for his 4.7TOs/game as a starter. If maybe MDA played Davis at the point and J Lin at the SG, then his turnovers wouldn't be a problem. Also, he could have better performances against tough teams. I'm not saying he can't play pg, but let us remember that he's a shooting guard(like Westbrook early in his career). Naturally, he'll struggle against the elite teams because the defense focuses on the point guard. If he played in the wing, he's not going to be trapped by the defense and forced him to pick up his dribble where he usually make a lot of mistakes.

      In Westbrook's rookie season, he was no 1 in turnovers. That just proves that he may be able to handle the ball well and score but running the offense as a pg is very much different. For Jeremy, it worked against some teams but it didn't against most elite teams he faced. This is because he's not ready to play full time pg. He can play maybe 50% pg and 50% sg. Playing off-ball is what he excelled in during college. He will improve his pg skills but it needs time.

      Just like what I said earlier, Woodson minimized the mistakes of Jeremy by not depending on him to run the offense at every possession; thus, his turnovers significantly improved. He was more in control.

      I' comparing him to Ginobli due to their scoring abilities and craftiness in using the pick and roll. They are terrific passers who could play at the point for some stretches but not the whole game. Just imagine Ginobli playing the point for the whole game, he's gonna score and dish out more assists but he's gonna have a lot of TOs and his efficiency will surely go down. So that is my point, Jeremy is a combo guard who can play both positions but his greatest strength is his ability to score. His scoring is top 10 among point guards maybe in the future he can be a top 10 scorer in the league. Yes, I'm very confident that he can flat out score and use his BB IQ to get to the basket. He's good at drawing fouls and he's a potential 90% FT shooter. His scoring abilities will be better if he has a stronger left hand dribble and a consistent jumpshot.

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    5. Interesting. I think both views have merit. I guess we will simply have to wait and see how hes going to develop. I just want to point out that Deren Williams often come out of games with 5 TOs, too. Whats his contract? 100 million over 5 years? I think he has averaged 4 TOs per game.

      We also must not forget that TOs were not entirely a JLin but a Knicks problem. Knicks had bad TO numbers when JLin was still warming the bench. We shouldnt forget that.

      His coaches have always described him as hard working and smart. We can assume that hes been working on his alleged weaknesses.

      I remember SAS on TV. Someone confronted him with a statement he alledgedly made - saying that Lin was a marginal PG. SAS was furious and claimed to have said that Lin was "slightly above average" PG. Coming out of that guys mouth it must mean that JLin is a great PG. He will do just fine.



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    6. People are overanalyzing what was basically his rookie season. Rookies are supposed to have struggles.

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    7. @TVN

      But he clearly struggled? He can play some point against bad, mediocre and even some slightly good teams. He has instincts of a point guard because of his vision, However, his pedestrian ball-handling and natural tendency to score
      limits his capabilities to run the offense. Look at Westbrook early in his career. He was a Shooting guard. The only advantage of Lin over Westbrook is that he has better passing abilities and court vision (not even close). But he has his weaknesses, so as of NOW he can play 60% pg and 40% SG . This will prevent him from being too exposed by the defense. He will learn and get better in the future. By then, he's capable of playing point for 100% of the time.

      That is why I suggested playing him with Royce white and let White play pg and Jeremy at the SG. He'll become more efficient and less pressured to run the offense.

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    8. @TVN

      That is why I'm suggesting he plays part time PG for 2 years and maybe during that 3rd year, he can play point full time when he is already polished.

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    9. There are pros and cons of playing part-time PG for Jeremy. The good thing is he will reduce his TOs but the much worse thing is people will start questioning if he qualifies as a starter PG and can be the face of a franchise. He does need to improve his ball-handling skills as a PG since he played as a SG in Harvard but he would need to do it full-time as a PG even if it means learning through his mistakes.

      There are much more important quality (court vision, assist-to-TO rate) as a starting PG than the TO rate. I'd say Westbrook has more a SG mentality than a PG, and that caused some frustrations with the OKC (Many people yell at the TV to give the ball to Durant first in the 4Q). You can tell he wants to prove he is as good a scorer as Durant if not better. But you can tell Jeremy plays the right way to attack based on what the defense gives him, if he's open he'll score, if not he'll pass. Jeremy has more a PG mentality and definitely makes his teammates better than Westbrook. The Russel Westbrook experiment in the OKC was almost over if OKC didn't make it to the Finals this past year.

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    11. @nephelauxetic:

      I agree with you - and I disagree with you as well :)

      Its true that there were times when JLin struggled - trying to get the ball to his teammates so they can score. I thought "man why pass the ball - why not go up and score yourself like you have done in the past".

      I know its not a very popular thought but have you ever taken the Melo factor into account?

      Melo in -> not so good. Melo out -> winning streak. Melo in -> losing games. Then of course there was a long losing streak. MDA out/Woody in -> winning streak and Melo plays like an all star all of a sudden (at least he had a couple of strong games and he worked so much harder).

      Melos up and downs have surely influenced JLins numbers. For him to try to fit in better had an affect as well. Remember when Melo complained that he wasnt used to a PG holding the ball so much? I totally think thats silly but maybe Im a little old school when it comes to PG play.

      There have been clips where people analyzed Melos game. Some showed clearly how Melo was totally dull at times - not moving at all - not going for the ball - not taking part in defense. I dont know if he just had a bad stretch or was tired or injured. Then again - there were people - just as extreme as SAS - who claimed it was sabotage...

      Anyway - Im totally with Psalm234 on this. There are more important qualities than TOs. As long as youre winning games - TOs dont matter - as many stats prove. As I stated earlier - many elite PGs dont have MUCH better TO numbers.

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    12. There were very few successful point forwards in the NBA. Only Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Lebron .... And they were scorers too. Royce White isn't a scorer, he can pass and rebound, but that's about it. He should come off the bench for the 2nd unit if Machado and Livingston can't handle PG duties.

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    13. @Psalm234

      Yes Lin is a more willing passer but that doesn't mean he's a better point guard. However, Jeremy also has a scorer's mentality in my opinion. Maybe not to the same degree as Westbrook but pretty close. I do not think Jeremy will be a pure point guard because he is a scorer and he shouldn't change who he is. in the future, he'll be a top 5 in scoring for years to come. He can improve his pg skills but he'll always be a scorer and he should be a scorer with that kind of skills.

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    14. can royce white play pg? i know he's a good passer, but at 260 lbs, i don't see him as the primary ball handler in transition. the good news is that the rockets have lots of forwards with good ball handling abilities so that jlin does not need to play pg 90% of the time. i didn't know that parsons has such great mobility. i thought he was just a catch-n-shoot player like novak. if he can only shoot like novak, then he would be an all-star. i must admit, i did not think parsons would be the longterm solution as the starting sf. but after seeing the clips, yeah, he's got potential to be a great player, and his game definitely supplements jlin's game.

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    15. i just saw some clips of royce white. yes, he can play pg in transition! wow, the rockets may lead the league in fast breaks!

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    16. I hope Parsons can put the ball on the floor to relieve some pressure off Lin. Like I always say, J Lin is a scorer not a pure point guard. He'll never be a pure point guard; he'll never have nash, rondo, stockon assist numbers but who cares. He needs to emulate Westbrook. He needs to prove that he is a dominant scorer. He needs to be aggressive. I expect him to average 5-6.5 assists. But his scoring should be around 19-20 if Mchale uses him properly. He's a shooting guard; he's a SCORER that can play some pg for some stretches but not he whole game. When Melo and Stat came back, he struggled because he was forced to become a point guard. This just proves that he is not a pure point guard. I repeat for the nth time, Jeremy Lin is a scorer just like Westbrook. Maybe he has better court vision but still a natural scorer.

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    17. Yes @willydilly, at the end of the day he would be judged by the most important stat of W-L record. Noone questions Nash anymore even with the 3rd highest TO/game at 3.7 in 2011-2012 season (DWill is #1 at 4.0; Jeremy is 6th at 3.6) because he wins games.

      TO rate can be a misleading stat because it takes 2 to tango (the passer and the receiver). What's really interesting for me is both Jeremy Lin and Baron Davis clinched the Top 2 ranking in TO/48min at 6.4 and 6.1 (for guards with a minimum of 20 games).

      http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Turnovers.jsp?league=00&season=22011&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3&splitDD=All%20Teams

      And not all TOs are created equal. There were OK turnovers when Jeremy tried to create something but there were also ugly TOs when he looked tired and made lazy passes that got stolen. But who wouldn't if they sat at the end of the bench and were ridden like Secretariat during the Linsanity run? I'll take the many jaw-dropping assists even with some ugly TOs.
      I thought Coach Woodson helped Jeremy to cut down on the ugly TOs last season by taking him out for a while or talking on the sidelines. @nephelauxetic brought up a good point about what to do if Jeremy made the same mistakes. I hope Coach McHale does something similar to what Coach Woodson did. Backup PGs just need to relieve him temporarily. I'm confident Jeremy has worked on more his ball-handling skills when being pressured.

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    18. More on the unique skill set of Royce White

      http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-royce-white

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    19. Just being objective, Jeremy is more effective in the halfcourt than in the transition. According to one article in the thedreamshake.com, Jeremy was actually very inefficient in the transition that is why guys like White, lamb and even parsons can initiate the offense instead of Jeremy. I would like Jeremy to imitate Westbrook's aggressiveness. He can also master that floater just like tony parker. Maybe he can be a top 10 in scoring next season if he develops a consistent mid-range and 3pt jumpshot.

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    20. Jeremy Lin is a good GUARD.

      He can play PG, SG, or even SF against smaller teams in a 3 guard lineup.

      In terms of mentality, Lin is a player that creates for others. Point guards are not the only players that can do that. Tim Duncan creates even more shots for players than Lin does, and Duncan is a center listed at power forward (at least his coach Popovich calls him the Spurs center for the "last 15 years".)

      Lin does a lot of everything, including turn the ball over. I'll happily live with the turnovers if Lin is trying to create shots for guys like Tyson Chandler and Steve Novak who have never scored consistently in the NBA until Lin started setting them up for scores.

      I'd rather have Lin and his desire to make guys around him better than a guy like Deron Williams who turns the ball over more than Lin does and doesn't care about making his teammates better.

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    21. @nephelauxetic,

      I think we are on the same page here that Jeremy won't fit into the mold of a "pure PG" who just distributes the ball and makes occasional 3PTs. I'm thinking of Derek Fisher who does it well.

      Jeremy fits more in the mold of Steve Nash who looks to pass first but he's always penetrating to break down the defense and score when the window opens. There were some articles when D'Antoni and his assistants watched him during practice and commented he looks very much like Steve out there in how he runs around and tries to find holes in the defense.

      Jeremy still has ways to go before he has the same PG skills as Nash but Jeremy is definitely better as a scorer (stronger and more athletic) and in defense (steals/deflections although not quite on on-the-ball defense)

      But in terms of the PG potential to become a floor general who has the court vision, makes defense overcommit to create holes, the ability to create offense for himself and his teammates, I believe he has it as some HOF-ers have commented about it.

      Jerry "the Logo" West talked about Jeremy's little subtle change-of-direction to keep defense guessing ala Chris Paul. Bob Cousy recognized that Jeremy also has his strength as a PG of peripheral vision and was enamored with his speed and quickness. Walt "Clyde" Frazier. Willis Reed: "Jeremy Lin reminds me so much of Walt Frazier. It's how Jeremy controls the game, gets the ball to the right people for easy baskets, the lobs he's throwing to Tyson Chandler -- it all reminds me of Clyde."

      We should take comfort and trust these HOFers' assessment since all of us in this board here collectively can't equal their basketball knowledge. With his potential and work ethic, I believe in 3-4 years Jeremy could be the next PG ala Steve Nash with better defense and scoring. He does need to work on his ball-handling skill, on-the-ball defense, floaters, etc. but even MJ came back every year with new skills (shooting/defense/fadeaway jumper, etc.) so we should expect some learning curve.

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    22. Forget about Tony Parker and his alleged "point guard" position.

      Tim Duncan siphons defenses away from Parker and sets up Parker to score. Without Tim Duncan, Parker is likely not even a starting NBA point guard. Parker doesn't even do traditional point guard duties other than being the ball up court. Jeremy Lin is far more of a natural point guard than Parker is.

      In transition, Jeremy Lin does fine. The Knicks were not a running team, and Lin did as much as he could to get out on the break. Besides, Lin's mutineering teammates were trying to screw Lin up and STILL the Knicks won with Lin.

      As far as Russell Westbrook goes, he is far less capable of reading defenses and doing traditional point guard duties than Lin is. Besides, Lin didn't have Kevin Durant who unselfishly lets Westbrook play off him.

      On the Rockets, Lin will have ballhandlers and outside shooters beside him but no power inside players. It is a completely opposite situation from NY. Lin will have to run and gun with the Rockets as opposed to being the half court slowdown point guard he was with NY.

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    23. @KHuang, it's interesting that you point out that this Houston team has a dynamic PG in Lin with some sharpshooters (Parsons, Kmart, JLamb) without dominating center offensively. It won't be a surprise if McHale will try to employ a version of Phoenix Suns' "7 Seconds or Less" or Run and Gun. Asik would anchor the defense to grab rebounds and give the ball to Lin to push the ball quickly, penetrate and tries to find some open shooters.

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    24. When Kevin McHale was hired by the Rockets last year, he talked a lot about playing power basketball with dominant inside scorers ruling the paint.

      But then he had that Houston team that was mainly a run and gun perimeter team and was forced to play small ball.

      In the NBA, game plans are decided on the capabilities of the players on the roster.

      What's neat about Jeremy Lin is that he can play multiple positions in different roles. Jeremy Lin is an old school player who can play whatever role he is assigned because he has a complete skill set.

      NBA games mercilessly expose the technical weaknesses of players. Jeremy Lin needs to improve going left and needs to develop his dribble pivots on offense and learn to hand check a bit more on defense, but otherwise he has no horrible deficiencies that opponents can exploit.

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    25. @KHuang I agree with you that Deron's leadership is overrated but he's still the most complete offensive pg in the league. He's also a pure point guard.

      Regarding Lin's ability to create for others, he can only do that if he attacks the basket. Why do you think he attacks? because he aims to score. I'm only saying instead of being the focus of the defense in a point guard-dominated system, he can be wing player that plays off ball; thus, he can minimize his turnovers and shoot the ball above 45%.

      Also, I'm surprised you criticize parker so much KHuang.

      "Without Tim Duncan, Parker is likely not even a starting NBA point guard. Parker doesn't even do traditional point guard duties other than being the ball up court. Jeremy Lin is far more of a natural point guard than Parker is."

      I don't know if you watch the best point in the league last season but I'm pretty sure a lot would disagree with you. Last season, parker finished 4th in MVP voting. So I'm insulted the way you claim that he will not be a starting guard in the league without duncan. Duncan surely makes his job easier especially during Duncan's prime years. But last year, Parker clearly was the best point guard in the league.

      In my opinion. Jeremy is a better finisher in the break rather than the playmaker. About westbrook, Lin is definitely better in reading the defense but Lin's average ballhandling prevents him from running the offense without turning the ball over a lot. He should really imitate Westbrook's tendencies. He must aim to score 20+ points in every game. I couldn't care less if he only averages 5 assists. I expect lin to average 19 and 5 if mchale utilizes him as a combo guard which he should.

      @Psalm234

      With all due respect to the hall of famers, I really doubt Jeremy Lin can develop into a pure point guard like nash. I see him more of a hybrid of Parker, Ginobli and Westbrook. Lin has ginobli's craftiness to use the pick and roll. Lin has parker's tendency to penetrate oftenly. Also, Lin has Westbrook's reckless abandon . aggressiveness, will-to-win, and scorer's mentality.
      So, I truly believe Jeremy will be one of the best scorers in his position (the shooting guard position).

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    26. If elite teams tried to stop Kyrie Irving and John Wall like they tried to stop JLin, these young PGs would look shaky at PG as well.

      JLin's TOs off passes look more like rookie mistakes. JLin's TOs from his dribbling seems to be often because after he blows by a PG, he tends to stop if the opposing team has crowded the lane with big men. He loses sight of the pg behind him, who then sometimes recover by easily poking at the ball because JLin is stationary. Perhaps if he blows by a guard, but no driving lane or passing lane opens up, JLin should learn to backup or float sideways until options open up, and also to avoid active hands, much like what Nash does. Lin also frequently has TOs off of dribble penetration even when he doesn't stop and goes all the way. Mostly, it doesn't seem that it is the pg on JLin who knocks the ball lose, but someone near the lane. This seems to be just natural for someone who drives into traffic as frequently as JLin does. Driving into traffic has its risks, but it does collapse a defense even further to open up teammates, and also present the opportunity to get fouled and free throws.

      Westbrook's mentality is different from JLin's because JLin looks to score to open up his teammates for consequent plays, as well as putting up points for his team, whereas Westbrook looks to score for the sake of scoring. For example JLin penetrates defenses to open up options. If the defense gives him the opportunity to score and closes the passing option, JLin will look to score. Westbrook penetrates defenses looking to score most of the time.

      JLins dribble penetration and passing off to the open man makes him much more like a pg than Ginobili and also Westbrook.

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    27. "Westbrook's mentality is different from JLin's because JLin looks to score to open up his teammates for consequent plays, as well as putting up points for his team, whereas Westbrook looks to score for the sake of scoring."

      I disagree with this, he'll be more effective if he plays off-ball 50% of the time. He has a scorer's mentality. I'm not convinced that lin is a point guard. He and westbrook has a lot of similarities.

      I will always believe (unless Lin proves me wrong) that lin is an average point guard but very good scorer which has the potential to be one of the best in the league. Maybe after 2-3 years, Jeremy Lin will be a player who averages 25ppg and 5-6 assists. He is a shooting guard that can play some point guard like a ginobli and westbrook. Sorry, I'm not buying to the nash comparison.

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    28. @nephelauxetic,

      Having seen Lin play in his senior year in HS, I'm probably the only one here that can say definitively that he's a true point. He was all about setting his teammates up. When he got to Harvard, however, he split time at both guard spots due to team needs. Steve Nash, who I saw play at Santa Clara, played the off guard his first 2 seasons before switching to a more combo role as a junior and senior.

      Bottom line: Jeremy is a PG. And if you can accept this, then you have no credibility whatsoever.

      So, please stop, because you're making yourself look more and more foolish the more you post.

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    29. @nephelauxetic,

      And you absolutely don't play Lin off the ball. That is stupid beyond words. He's your best creator and playmaker, whether it's for others or himself. You absolutely keep the ball in his hands. Thank God you are not his coach, because that is bad strategy. SMH...

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    30. I'm starting to think this nephelauxetic character is Stephen A. Smith.

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    31. And Lin had one of the highest assist rates in the NBA last season. So much for not being a true PG...

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    32. @TVN

      I admit I did not see him play in HS but that was a long time ago and I'm talking about the NBA. Clearly you did not see him struggled against the elite teams. I do not want to mention them anymore. What I said about him was he is a combo guard that generally is a scorer. I'm not saying he cannot play point guard, i'm saying he's more effective as a wing player. He'll still play some point guard like what Manu does. But to decrease his turnovers, he needs to balance his game: 60% pg and 40% SG. Its harder to trap him when he plays off the ball.

      Maybe in the future, he can improve his pg abilities but for now, he's generally a scorer who can create some opportunities for his teammates. But if you think he'll be a nash-type of player then I'm sorry to tell you but you'll be disappointed. He can flat out score, SCORE people. He and westbrook have alot of similarities in terms of tendencies. For the nth time, Jeremy is a hybrid of Ginobli and Westbrook.

      He can play pg for the whole game but he'll average 5 TOs per game. So it would not be efficient. Choose: Lin forcing himself to be a pure point guard (which he is clearly no) who turns the ball over for 5-6 times a game or a combo guard (or shooting guard) who primarily scores efficiently and dishes out 4-6 assists with 3-3.5 TOs per game. I choose the second one.

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    33. @TVN

      Come on now, I'm a fan of lin. I even praised him of being a top 10 scorers among point guards. I even predicted that after 2-3 years, he'll average 25+ points per game along with 5-6 assists. I'm just not convinced he can play pg for the whole game or against top defensive teams. I even compared him to ginobli , Westbrook and Parker. Why do you say I'm a character of SAS?

      I just have a different opinion about him. There is no need to accuse me of being a hater or something.I even defended Lin on other sites that have articles that calls him a flash-in-a-pan or the like.

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    34. First you criticize Lin for being a scorer and not a passer.

      But then you cite Westbrook, Williams, and Parker as being "pure" PGA even though all three of them shoot first, second, and third?

      I'm not buying this "Jeremy Lin is not a point guard" nonsense. Not when the three players you cite as being purer point guards than Lin are simply small scorers, not distributors.

      Jeremy Lin gets his teams WINS by making others better. Most so-called "point guards" in today's NBA lack that skill, including All Stars.

      If you want to convince yourself that Jeremy Lin will average 5 TOs a game, go ahead. Just don't whine when guys like TVN and myself call you a misguided hater.

      Delete
    35. @nephelauxetic, "I will always believe (unless Lin proves me wrong) that lin is an average point guard..."

      Good response from TVN: "And Lin had one of the highest assist rates in the NBA last season. So much for not being a true PG..." There's your evidence right there to prove you wrong. And don't give me he was a product of MDA. Davis, Bibby, Douglas didn't get it done in the MDA system.

      "...he'll be more effective if he plays off-ball 50% of the time. He has a scorer's mentality..."

      If he plays off ball, of course he will be more productive in terms of scoring, but less effective (not more) in helping his team win. Playing off ball will come at the cost of being less productive in facilitating others and obscuring his unique floor general and leadership abilities.

      It seems like you inexplicably disagree that JLin is 'more effective' in distributing the ball to make his team better (but why?) Your opinion is against the evidence of his PER, assists, and winning last year.

      Please provide reasons other than 'he has a scorer's mentality' which I disagree with taken by itself. He has a scorer's mentality when at the right moment, usually at the end of games, and when he recognises he is the best option for that game. Otherwise, he has an overarching facilitator mentality, as evidenced by his deference to Melo last season, and before that getting all the second tier players involved without Melo and Stat.

      Delete
    36. When nephelauxetic posts here that he thinks rookie power forward Royce White would be a better point guard than statistically dominant Jeremy Lin, all of his credibility goes out the window.

      This is similar to when nephelauxetic's idol Eric was posting the utterly INSANE notion that Pablo Prigioni who is age 35 and has never played a second of NBA basketball is a purer and better point guard than Jeremy Lin.

      Delete
    37. I never claimed Westbrook and parker for being a pure point guard. Williams is a pure point guard but last season he has no decent teammates so he has to score or be selfish. About Westbrook, I even compared him to Lin as being a combo guard who has a scorer's mentality.

      I expect the turnovers to be a lot if he is forced to be a pure point guard by the rockets. Last season , he averaged 4.8 turnovers every 36 minutes and 6.4 turnovers for 48 minutes. So, that is my basis for the turnover issues. But if he plays 60% pg and 40% sg, then I expect his turnovers to be around 3-3.5.

      @wilsc I never claimed he's a product of MDA system. He had huge numbers but he had a lot of turnovers. Once he faced the elite teams, he struggled as a point guard since he was the focus of the defense. If he plays off the ball, he will not be exposed to a lot of traps that shut him down.

      He will still play pg but instead of 100% why not make it 60% and let the backup and royce white initiate the offense for 40% of the time.

      He struggled when melo and stat came back because he was forced to play point guard. He deferred to them. He thought that he should create shots for the two superstars. He tried to be the pure point that he is not then struggled. So there is your proof. If he continued to just score instead of pretending to be a pure point guard then maybe he would not have been shut down by the heat and the celtics. MDA should have played Davis at the point and lin at the two. He could also have assigned Melo as the point forward. If MDA did that, I'm pretty sure he will have a better performance.

      I never claimed that Royce white is a better point guard. I only said that white and the other backup pg should initiate the offense in some stretches. Lin should not run the offense everytime he is on the floor. There must be a variety of options. Lin playing as a point or sometimes lin playing as a wing player.

      Delete
    38. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    39. LOL another guy with blinders on that walks backwards.




      You do realize pure point guards do a lot more than walk the ball up. Dump to Melo wing extended. Stand around right? Yet this is exactly what they had Lin do.

      But who is also in the game? Tyson and Amare. Clogging up the post/lane. Not moving anywhere. You can substitute Tyson/Amare/Melo into that situation anywhere you please.

      Let's see a team misuse any quality or elite PG by saying.... all you do is walk it up and dump it. Then stand around. That's you being the best pure point guard. That just makes no sense.

      "OK, Tony Parker, all I want you to do is walk it up and give it to TD then stand there."

      "Rondo, all is you to walk it up, give it to KG on the block, and stand there."

      "Magic Johnson, just give it to Kareem, then stand there."

      "John Stockton, give it to Malone, then just stand there."

      Shoot, it might actually have worked to some degree for those teams, they backcut all game, and those big men are extremely willing passers.

      Also, you forget how the NYK tanked on Mike D and Lin.

      Delete
    40. @# 1 j

      Did I say that pure point guards only pass the ball and stand around?

      I'm confused in your posts

      All I've said that Lin is a combo guard rather than a pure pg. It simply means he has westbrook's scoring mentality. He prefers to score than to pass. He can pass but don't expect him to give you 8+ assists per game. He can give 20+ points per game.

      By the way, I never said Parker was a pure point guard.

      How in the world did NY came into this discussion? I've only said that Lin deferred too much and lost his scoring mentality. He's a Scorer my friend.

      Delete
    41. You said his problem was being a pure point guard. He struggled as a pure point guard and doing what the Knicks wanted him to do. Your saying he doesn't want to pass? HE doesn't want to pass it and then stand around. I guess you didn't see him threading dimes.


      I'm saying a good PG, pure, combo, or whatever needs to do more than just walk it up, dump it, and stand around.

      I'm not gonna read through all this crap for quotes.

      From skimming this I can see you are beating a dead horse, and everything you keep waffling and/or spouting off has been dissected, refuted, and dismissed. Yet, you keep asking people the same thing over and over again, and ignoring all answers right in front of your face.

      Delete
    42. # 1 j
      I said that the problem was him trying to be a pure point guard. When he did that, he lost some of his aggressiveness and was slowed down by opposing defenses.
      Did I say he doesn't want to pass it? All I've said was he
      deferred too much. He passed the ball too much in my opinion. He should have been more aggressive.

      You are really confusing me my friend

      Delete
    43. The post is too long to comment on everything individually. However, Jeremy Lin is a PG first and foremost. BUT as KHuang said, Jeremy Lin can swing to other positions as needed. Remember, Jeremy Lin played the "3" (small forward") position for a time at Harvard.

      Almost every team has other players who will bring the ball up instead of the PG. Sometimes it's the way the coach wants a play to run. Sometimes the PG feels they shouldn't handle and gives it up. The PG is responsible for running the offense BUT also needs to know when to get out of the way.

      The Golden State Warriors were an example. Curry was the PG by name but Monta Ellis had the ball in his hands a lot as the ball handler.

      As long as the other players on the roster can bring the ball up on occasion, Jeremy lin will do just fine.

      Delete
  9. 18 Aug - Training camp [in Dongguan] starts
    http://p.twimg.com/A0oBRLrCEAEAUxy.jpg
    http://p.twimg.com/A0oD-xsCUAAomYW.jpg
    http://p.twimg.com/A0oIcAYCUAAFSLS.jpg

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    Replies
    1. On the second picture - is that Doc Scheppler right next to JLin? Didnt know hes in china, too :)

      Delete
    2. Looks like him. But there's no official mention of him in publicity.

      JLin speaking to the participants
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG1jDjvsg_c

      Delete
    3. He brought his HS coach to Taiwan, and I guess to China to help with his basketball camp.

      Delete
    4. Sure? I read that his HS coach (Diepenbrock) was in Taiwan for 6 days (before JLin even flew in).

      http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aSPT&ID=201208030043

      I didnt know they met in Taiwan or even ran the camp together.

      Delete
    5. More from training camp
      http://p.twimg.com/A0q7CD5CcAAJhsj.jpg:large

      Delete
    6. http://p.twimg.com/A0q80eoCMAAx5Z9.jpg:large
      http://p.twimg.com/A0q9NgWCQAEHCAw.jpg:large

      Delete
  10. According to the Chinese newspapers, Jeremy has brought his personal trainer and shooting coach with him to the ball camps. I assume they are Phil Walker od Sparta Science and Dr. Schleppers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Group pic
      http://p.twimg.com/A0kea9ZCQAIBiVt.jpg:large

      http://p.twimg.com/A0jCFARCAAEp3pg.jpg

      Delete
    2. Hopefully Doc isn't trying to change Lin's natural shot mechanics too much.

      The one thing that will totally derail Lin is if he squares up too much to the rim and starts shooting jump shots from the middle of his forehead. Lin would brick most of his shots the way Jimmer Fredette does.

      In today's basketball game, coaches often try to make guys into "picture shooters". Unfortunately, "picture shooters" usually can't score against NBA caliber defenses.

      Delete
    3. KHuang, you can rest assured. I had a few lessons with Doc this summer and can tell you that the only thing Doc changed about Lin's shooting pocket position is that he brought it from almost behind his head to more towards the front of his head. Doc is letting Lin keep that characteristic right of the head shooting pocket. He also told me that some of the stuff they worked on last summer was keeping his legs wider apart during the shot and having a faster dribbling to shooting transition. This summer he said they were working on spot up and catch and shoot situations, as well as developing a more quick and lethal floater.

      Honestly I think Lin's gonna be lethal this year, especially from the 3 point line. Toward the end of that that offseason video you saw him shooting 3s at the gym. Doc showed me a picture of the shot count from that machine at the end of the day and out of 500+ shots, Lin made something like 80% of his shots.

      Delete
    4. thanks Aids Bike! That's reassuring to know. Can't wait to see how much improvement Lin will make over this period :)

      Delete
    5. Thanks, Aids Bike! And congratulations on working with Doc who definitely is a great coach.

      In the old days, the greatest shooters in the game pulled their shots behind their heads all the time. Larry Bird, Lin's coach McHale, Michael Jordan, John Stockton - all those guys did that because otherwise they would get their shots blocked.

      As long as Lin's shot goes IN, that's all that matters.

      Delete
  11. I think the definition of point guard has changed tremendously. Some say the person who handles and dribbles the ball the most is the "point guard", which goes for most ball hogs right?

    Jeremy Lin is a point guard in the sense that he played "small ball" just like everyone else 6" and under back in elementary, junior and high school, however compared to the elite of the NBA he's not at that level...yet. I dare say despite his full-court vision, he still penetrates like he's running through a maze. For example, Lin would see an opportunity on the offensive side of the court, run mid-court and then tries to pass it. The problem is that when he dribbles he sometimes doesn't look up to monitor the situation which can change at any time. A pure point guard would have already passed the ball, but he's still holding onto it, which makes him more of an offensive point guard. A bit like Latrell Sprewell.

    I was watching last year's video of Landry Fields, having never watched the Knicks until Lin came. Fields was a great player back then, getting a lot of lobs and creating them. In the games I've seen this year I haven't seen many due to the team change (in particular Melo and Lin). Fields should have been even better this year but all the momentum went to Lin. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Lin hater (I am one of the first to have his jersey in Japan) and Lin has inspired me just like everyone else, but if Lin continues to rely on slashing to the basketball he has to improve his athletic ability as well as his durability on top of his point guard duties. He can't be the first option on his team when there are already taller and more suitable team mates in a better position to score.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Desert Boot ?

      what are you talking about ?

      Fields should have been even better this year but all the momentum went to Lin.

      Fields has sucked since the melo trade. That is why when he left the knicks no one even noticed. no stories about why didn't the knicks match the raptors offer sheet.

      Fields was good but he was not a game changer unlike Lin. Lin proved that he can lead a team with bench warmers to victories 90-95 percent of teams in the nba. That my friend is damn good.

      Delete
    2. "Some say the person who handles and dribbles the ball the most is the "point guard", which goes for most ball hogs right?"

      Absolutely not. If you are a black hole, you are a black hole. Melo is a black hole. Lin has absolutely no problems giving the ball up and dropping dimes.

      In NY, Lin had to run around like that. When you're teammates don't move around without the ball... Lin's gotta dribble until something opens, any little seam. It's compounded by Lin getting double/triple teams, and his teammates not moving and clumping together.... negating the advantage/counter an offense gets with double/triple teams. Don't forget the Melo's tanking quote as well as the locker room betrayals.

      Lin's athletic ability is fine, it's actually pretty good. The durability is a concern. The rookie wall shouldn't be as much of a problem this season. Hopefully, he and his teammates protect him from the hits sure to be coming this year.

      Delete
  12. I just watched some videos on Parsons above. Most of it were putback dunks or runaway dunks. I'm more interested to know if he can post up or put the ball on the floor. I also want to figure out if he can be a point forward. I truly hope so even if he will do it occasionally. He and Lin can run the 1-3 pick and roll to perfection depending on their chemistry.

    One possible scenario in that 1-3 pick and roll is Parsons posting up smaller defenders when the opposing teams decided to switch the pick and roll. I hope they run some plays for him. They need a lot of variety in their offense not just purely a point guard-dominated pick and roll. Honestly, very rarely will a point guard -dominated offense win championships.

    Let us look at the NBA champs in the past years:

    1999 Spurs - mainly a post up team due to Duncan and Robinson

    2000-2002 Lakers - Triangle offense ; another post up - oriented team

    2003 Spurs - combination of postups and pick and roll

    2004 Pistons - Elite Defensive team; postups by Rasheed wallace, off-ball plays for hamilton and pick and rolls

    2005 Spurs - combination of postups and pick and roll

    2006 Heat - Dwade iso & pick and rolls , Postups by Shaq

    2007 Spurs - combination of postups and pick and roll

    2008 Celtics - Elite Defensive team; postups by Garnett; Pierce iso and pick and roll; off-ball screens for Ray Allen

    2009 -2010 Lakers - Triangle offense

    2011 Mavericks - Dirk mid post isolation , multiple pick and rolls

    2012 Heat - Isolations & pick and rolls by Wade and James; Face-up isolation by Bosh; Post-ups by Lebron

    What I'm saying is that for the rockets to succeed, they just cannot depend on the point guard to run every play for the team. There must be variety of options. There must be a balance between the inside and outside game.

    I'm surprised everyone here wants Jeremy Lin to be steve nash. The MDA system will rarely win anything in the NBA. That is the reason for steve nash's ringless fingers.

    Why not make Jeremy a scorer? He's a pretty good one. So why waste his ability to score by making him play like Nash? Why not make him into a Parker who was clearly better than Nash?

    Another scenario I see is Jeremy posting up smaller PGs. That would create more damage for the opposing team. He could get a lot of free throws if he can consistently put pressure on the smaller point guards.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one is saying that he should play like Steve Nash. To me Lin has the game of tony Parker mixed in with Steve Nash. A better passer than Tony Parker (Maybe his up side is Steve Nash level of passing) But he can score the basketball like Tony Parker (Maybe that is his up side is tony Parker scoring abilities )

      Delete
    2. Well, the people above said that he is a pure point guard like nash. He can reach Parker's scoring abilities. He has to develop a consistent mid-range jumpshot and an unstoppable floater. He should also improve his ballhandling . I'm not so sure about his abilities as a point guard. Because the more I watch his games against the heat, celtics, bulls, dallas (2nd game), and philly (1st game), the more I'm convinced that he is a shooting guard like Manu Ginobli. Their both crafty and excellent passers but forcing them to play pg for the whole game will expose them to their weaknesses.

      Delete
    3. Lin played like a SG and a flawed PG in those games because your beloved Melo refused to space the floor and let Lin operate and forced Lin to face multiple defenders at the same time and caused his TOs and bad shots. You lost all your creditbilty when you said your beloved Melo's a point forward. Lol. You must think your Melo's as the same level as LeBron too. Only you're as big a joke as Melo.

      Delete
    4. You play with who you have.

      No one is saying the Rox will win the cup. They just don't have the full talent complement of some teams. It's not so much Lin's fault that his team isn't stacked with superstars/allstars/hall of famers. Use what you got. Luckily, for the Rox, Lin makes everyone better, and loves to pass.

      My statement doesn't discount the fact that those teams above you mentioned, ran with very good guards, both PG and SG that for the most part did not just walk it up, dump, stand around while the post does everything.

      Spurs?Parker and Ginobli. Targets of Duncan and Robinson.

      Lakers had Kobe & the triangle where everyone plays everywhere. Plus two of the best big men (best passing big men too) in the game.... Shaq also regularly drew in defenses.

      Celtics have RONDO/Allen/Pierce.... with a 3rd living hall of famer KG.

      Pistons - Billups (finals mvp pg?) + Rip

      Miami Heat - Yes, they ran some ISO, but what won it for them was ball movement, NOT stagnating hero ball. And a healthy dose of LBJ running the point, post, wing, ballboy, coach, hot dog vendor, etc. FREAKING LEBRON. HE can do whatever he wants, and any team he's on can do whatever they want.

      Mavericks had a still functioning Kidd + Terry + Barea (he's not that great, but he went off for them) and shooters everywhere

      Those teams all PASSED THE BALL. Regardless who handled the ball most, they all passed the ball. They all had good off ball movement as well. Throw in a couple all-stars or better helping the PG, and you don't need a point guard having to do EVERYTHING.


      The Rox are in rebuilding mode, and they way the team is currently constructed, Lin (assuming he continues his productivity or gets better) will be asked, obligated, to have the ball in his hands, and overcompensate until the rest of the Rockets team steps up. Obviously, I'm hoping they have the pieces now, and players step up and make huge strides, but it's equally obvious I'm not fully counting on that.

      Delete
    5. LOL - one more thing

      Who do you think ran those pick and rolls?

      Delete
    6. @Cara

      Where in the world did you get the idea that I'm a Knicks fan? Did I even mention it?
      What I've said was that Carmelo can play point forward in some stretches (not the whole game). He is very much capable of that. Anther thing, did I say Melo was the same level as Lebron? Where do you get this ideas?

      I do not even think Melo is a top 10 player in the league. He's leadership and defense are pedestrian. He's
      too one-dimensional in my opinion. Please, tell me where in the world did I say those things?

      @# 1 j
      Again your moving away from the topic. The topic was teams who won the championship had multiple options on offense. They did not SOLELY rely on the point guard to make every play for them. My point there was the so called MDA system was overrated. People wanted Jeremy to play like that. That style will rarely win anything.

      Delete
    7. Lol. Melo even part time as a point forward = disaster. I don't know why you could think Melo has the playmaking skills as a part time point forward and don't think Lin has the playmaking skills as a point guard. Unless you're a Lin hater! If I was the coach and Lin and Melo are on the court at the same time, I want the ball in Lin's hands every single time. Even Mike Woodson, who is a certified Lin hater, put the ball in Lin's hands in crunch time. That said it all.

      Delete
  13. Lol at that guy who said Lin's a not a PG. Lin's as pure as a PG as Steve Nash unless you too think Nash is not really a PG. People really couldn't figure out how Nash could create so many open shots for his teammates, that's actually predicted on his own scoring ability. When Nash's in his prime, he regularly scores over 30 points a game, not because he had a scorer mentality but because he used his scoring/shooting to attract defenders to create for teammates. He read the situations so well. Lin's the exactly the way.

    As for Lin's numbers and efficiency going down once Melo came back, that's totally because Lin's not a PG. it's because not only Melo tanked the games on D, he refused to space the floor for Lin. And with both Amare and Tyson who have no range at all clogging the middle as well, Lin almost had no room to operate. I don't have the stats now but from what I remember, Lin drove much less and shot more jumpers once those guys all came back, hence his efficiency suffered as we know that Lin's a better driver than shooter. That's the Knicks main problem, spacing. Melo's the only 3 point shooter on that team and he's a mediocre at best nba 3 point shooter and often refused to stand on the 3 point line as well. The Knicks frontcourt was frankly a total mess. No PG not even Magic Johnson or Chris Paul could save them in that situation.

    Finally, I fully expect Lin's efficiency to improve, not suffer in Houston. Not just his jumper will improve after another offseason. But now he finally has a group of guys who are willing and bother to space the floor for him, just like his Linsanity squad who Lin posted his best efficiency period with. And from what I noticed, apart from Asik, all Rockets players have decent range which is good for spacing as well. For the talk about Lin maybe facing more double team and his efficiency suffering as a result, I totally disagree. I actually think Lin will have a much wide open floor to operate. He doesn't need to face that crowed floor and crowed defenders so often again as with Melo around. I think Lin's raw numbers like points and assists will just depend on his usage and frankly I don't quite care about it. But I expect Lin to be his ultimate efficient self once again, like his Harvard days, like his Linsanity days. All the talk about Lin's efficiency suffering with less talented teammates around in Houston will be proven wrong. As Lin proved time and time again and as Nash proved in Phoenix great players stay great with any teammates and alwayd find a way in any situations.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People forget how close Steve Nash and the Suns were.

      One "dirty" play. One dirty play derailed their chances in the playoffs.

      I believe that was a year it was still the Leastern Conference. The Suns would have been heavily favored in the finals.

      Delete
    2. @Cara
      "Lol at that guy who said Lin's a not a PG"
      - When did I say this? I said he was a COMBO GUARD instead of a pure point guard. He has a scorer's mentality like Westbrook.

      "When Nash's in his prime, he regularly scores over 30 points a game, not because he had a scorer mentality but because he used his scoring/shooting to attract defenders to create for teammates. He read the situations so well. Lin's the exactly the way."

      - Against bad to mediocre teams, he can play like steve nash. But against the Heat, Celtics and others, not s much. Again,I'll repeat his ballhandling is pedestrian and that limits him in executing the pick and roll. He's a better isolation player. I repeat Isolation player.

      For the last time:
      I personally believe that Jeremy can be the next Russell Westbrook with Ginobli's craftiness. Is that bad? Is that an insult to jeremy? Why are you people act like its a bad thing?
      Westbrook is a top 5 pg in the league. Like Lin, he is a combo guard. Combo guards are the hybrid for SG and PG. They have a scorer's mentality. They can still play point guard but they are generally scorers. I could see Jeremy in the future to have averages similar to Westbrook: 24-26 ppg and 6 assists. Are those numbers really bad? You want Jeremy to be the next steve nash? Why?

      Jeremy needs to shoot 18-20 shots per game. maybe if his teammate struggles, he can emulate westbrook. Take over the game through scoring. if he has to take 30 shots then do it. He has the potential to be a great scorer you know. That is what I have been preaching. His scoring ability.

      "People forget how close Steve Nash and the Suns were."
      -Well, close is still not enough"
      Are you really buying to that one dirty play issue?
      My Spurs defeated them repeatedly and send them fishing.

      I'm insulted being called a Melo-Lover. Are you kidding me? I'm a Spurs fan primarily. i've only watched the knicks because of jeremy. He's uncanny ability to SCORE is very exciting to watch.

      Delete
    3. Yes, it's an insult to compare Lin to Westbrook because while I admire Westbrook's scoring ability, they're totally different players and Westbrook never make his teammates better like Lin does. You must never watch Lin play with quality players who are willing to play with him. With the right teammates, Lin can easily average more apg than someone like Rondo because unlike Rondo, Lin actually creates open easy more makable shots for teammates.

      Delete
    4. I disagree about Lin averaging more assists than Rondo. Let us just Agree to Disagree. I see him as a combo guard like Westbrook and you see him as someone like rondo and nash. We'll just have to wait for the season to start to know whether lin is comparable to nash or to westbrook. Again, personally I believe he's similar to Westbrook.

      Delete
    5. Why is it an insult to compare westbrook to lin? Westbrook is a top 5 point guard. shouldn't you be happy that I'm comparing him to an elite point guard?

      Delete
    6. Jeremy Lin already makes better decisions than Russell Westbrook who's actually a small forward in a guard's body.

      Most of today's NBA point guards are not setup men. They are short small forwards who dribble drive in from the wings and pass only when they are unable to score themselves.

      Jeremy Lin is not one of those short small forwards. All his life he has been a point guard, creating for others. His teams win because Lin gets everybody involved and so opponents can't just stop Lin and expect to win the way they can with Westbrook because of his inability to set up others unless he has driven to the basket first and got stopped.

      Many people in the NBA have favorably compared Jeremy Lin to all time great setup men like Walt Frazier or Steve Nash. When a guy like Magic Johnson compares Lin favorably to Nash and compliments Lin on his point guard skills, that carries more weight than the opinions of people who think Lin is not capable of being the good NBA point guard that he already is.

      Delete
  14. BTW, you guys need to go read the list of league turnover king of past years. I believe Deron Williams was the leader last year. The year before that? Steve Nash. I believe Nash led the league a couple of times as well. Lol. I would be so happy to see Jeremy "not a pure PG" Lin make this list with his possible 5 TOs per game as long as the Rockets win games. Someone less lazy than me, please post the list here! The argument of "turnover = not a PG" is so uneducated when probably the opposite is true. Lol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, he averaged 4.8 turnovers per 36 minutes. So, that is quite high. His assist to turnover ratio is below 2 which means its bad. So, that is the reason he's a COMBO guard. How many time do I have to tell this issue? He's a combo guard. Is it really that bad to become a combo guard?
      They did not win against the elite teams like miami and boston.

      Delete
    2. The only reason they didn't win against Miami and Boston was because Melo tanked games, not because Lin couldn't handle elite defense. I doubt you even watch games. Go check out the games plz. For example, in that Boston game, they gave the ball to Melo in crunch time. That's why they lost. If they gave the ball to Lin like they did against Philly and Indiana, they probably would have won already. How many times do I have to tell you that your beloved Melo's so unprofessional that he tanked games?

      And why did you conveniently ignore that Deron Williams and Steve Nash led the league in the turnovers yet they are still pure PGs in your eyes? How do you explain this myth?

      Your argument is simply weak. If Lin's not a PG, there is no PG in this league. Simple as that. Unless you simply don't know bball.

      Delete
    3. Steve nash averaged 10.7 assists and Williams around 8.5-8.7. Lin average 6.4 while averaging 3.6 turnovers. He averaged 4.7 as a starter.

      will you ever stop with that beloved Melo label on me?
      Its getting annoying you know.

      I'm getting tired of repeating this. I never said Lin was not a point guard. He is a combo guard which means he can play both the 1 and the 2. My only concern with him is that he is quite inexperienced to run the offense for the whole game. So I suggest that he plays pg 60% and sg 40%. I never claimed that he is not a point guard. Do you think russell westbrook runs the offense 100%? No, because he has durant and Harden.

      He is a point guard that primarily scores. He can pass but prefers to score. That makes him a combo guard not a pure point guard. But that does not mean he is not a point guard. He is a point guard for goodness sake.

      Delete
    4. You really never watched games or even bothered to check out the stats. Lin only averaged 6.4 apg because his stats were screwed by those garbage time games and games played with Melo! Before Melo came back, Lin averaged something like over 9 apg despite playing with terrible finishers and totally one shooter on the entire team. Lin could easily post same if not better apg than Deron and Nash if he's put into their situation.

      Delete
    5. For the PGs who played 20+ games, 25+ min/game, per 40 minutes (from hoopdata.com):

      JLin ranked 25th in Assist Rate (out of 41 who qualified for the criteria I set above). Assist Rate is:

      "the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist."

      Assist Rate = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers])

      JLin's Assist Rate (36.47) ranking is one behind Deron Williams (36.58), and is higher than:
      Jeff Teague 36.20
      Stephen Curry 36.16
      Luke Ridnour 36.14
      Isaiah Thomas 35.17
      Derrick Rose 33.40
      Mario Chalmers 32.44
      Kemba Walker 29.60
      Jrue Holiday 28.41
      ...and
      Westbrook is at the bottom at 21.53

      What I conclude from "the percentage of a [JLin]'s possessions that ends in an assist" is that he has a similar point guard mentality as Deron Williams and a lot stronger PG mentality than Westbrook.

      Remember that JLin's Assist Rate could be higher, considering the Knicks dysfunctional play with Melo back, and JLin's lack of experience playing with the team meant a least a couple of potential assists turning into turnovers.

      So we know he has the PG mentality, but the claim can be that despite of this, PG will be "more effective" as a SG or at least spend 40% of his time at SG. What is the basis of this claim? I anticipate that one would provide the evidence that JLin has a high TO per game.

      Out of the same 41 PGs falling into the criteria I set out above, here is how JLin stands in terms of Turnover Rate,

      "the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an turnover."

      Steve Nash 27.05
      Jason Kidd 24.18
      Rajon Rondo 22.85
      Ricky Rubio 22.24
      Andre Miller 22.03
      Jeremy Lin 21.37
      Mario Chalmers 20.75
      Greivis Vasquez 20.51
      Raymond Felton 19.52
      John Wall 19.23
      Ramon Sessions 18.76
      Goran Dragic 18.68
      Jose Juan Barea 18.26
      Derek Fisher 18.05
      Kyle Lowry 17.81

      Tsk tsk, JLin ranks 6th and among the top of the league in Turnover Rate. But wait, who else is right up there: Nash, Kidd, Rondo, Rubio, Miller. The PGs who JLin is replacing, Dragic and Lowry, are both better in this category, but not by much. And Dragic and Lowry have considerably more functional teams and experience.

      What I conclude from JLin's TO rate is that he can definitely improve in this aspect, but its not a big concern. At least not big enough to warrant the opinion that he should play SG 40% of his time on the floor.

      But is JLin even more effective at SG? I don't believe there is a data for his historic performance as SG in the NBA, and for his future performance or simulated performance, I would suggest a glass ball or NBA 2k13.

      So I don't have hard data to back up whether JLin will be more effective at SG.

      But what I do know is that JLin was darn good at PG. JLin was ranked 10th in PER (under PGs meeting the same criteria above), just below Nash, Lou Williams, and Deron Williams, and ahead of the former Houston PGs Lowry and Dragic.

      Chris Paul 27.02
      Derrick Rose 23.19
      Russell Westbrook 23.11
      Tony Parker 22.1
      Stephen Curry 21.44
      Kyrie Irving 21.42
      Steve Nash 20.35
      Lou Williams 20.28
      Deron Williams 20.27
      Jeremy Lin 19.86
      Ty Lawson 19.39
      Kyle Lowry 18.93
      Brandon Jennings 18.43
      Goran Dragic 18.12

      Conclusions I draw from JLin's statistics?

      JLin's PG mentality is at least as strong as Deron William's.

      JLin's TO rate is high and can be improved on, but we cannot conclude his effectiveness at PG based only on his TO numbers. PER perhaps is a better indicator.

      JLin's PER is among the top 10 for PGs last season (playing 20+ games, 25+ min/game, per 40 minutes) and therefore is very effective spending a large portion of his time playing PG. Note he was able to achieve this playing on a largely dysfunctional Knicks team.

      Can JLin be even more effective at SG and therefore should spend 40% of his time at SG? Perhaps, but the statistics show that JLin is already pretty darn good at PG.

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    6. The hard truth is that there actually is no such thing as a "pure point guard" in today's NBA.

      Having a point guard that primarily passes does not work in the NBA. Opponents turn their backs on these players defensively and force those guys to become scorers. A point guard who is not a scorer quickly washes out of the NBA.

      When Lin first stepped onto a NBA court for his first real minutes against Deron Williams and NJ, the Nets dared the unproven Lin to beat them. Lin beat Deron Williams black and blue on both ends and Linsanity started.

      If Lin was one of those "pure" point guards, he'd be playing for Dongquan in the Chinese Basketball Association THIS YEAR, not with the Houston Rockets.

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    7. I do agree that John Stockton type fo PG guards will not be as effective in today's NBA games. Now, with Nash, I believe it's different because the guy can also score effectively, although he does not drive to the baskets as much -- which I think is a good thing because it avoids too much injury-causing contacts.

      What I observed during 2012 NBA playoffs was that often it seemed to me that Parker was the only effective offense in Spurs team, while Duncan was a tad too slow. It also became obvious to me that Rondo, while a great passer in freezing opponents with his unworldly, non-textbook passes and moves, is not a great finisher. I think in OKC, there are actually too many scorers first players and not many good passers -- I thought Durant and Ibaka were best passers in OKC and therefore a player like Jlin would really fit well in OKC. I thought the way Parker scored again and again was just incredible. Parker, although a scorer first type of PG, definitely is a better dribbler than JLin. Westwood's offensive skills was damn good, although for OKC to win, I thought he should have realized that he needs to involve Durant more.

      There definitely is a room in NBA for a Guard who can score, shoot free throws well and can pass reasonably well -- aside from pick and rolls, I did not think JLin's passing skills were all that great in that his passes were too predictable. If JLin can improve some aspects of his game, I think he can be top 10 PGs in 2 or 3 years. I differ with some in this blog who already think JLin is a top 10 PG, mainly because I believe one prerequisite to being a top 10 PGs is a consistency to do well for long time and against best teams in NBA. There were one or two games in which JLin played where he really sucked. Yes, you could say he was tired, the entire Knicks were tired at the time, and other teams did play Knicks to contain JLin and something to prove and other Knicks players did not help out effectively -- I realize all that -- but the onus was on JLin -- and perhaps coach Woodson -- to have anticipated that these teams will be very motivated to stop him, so that they should have had another option once it became clear that the opposing team was keying on stopping JLin.

      For what it's worth, I thought OKC's coach did not do a very good job in Finals against Miami. His tactic of just letting OKC players just play did not work. I really thought the only way for OKC to win the Finals was for their coach to say "What the heck are you guys doing? We need to get Durant involved more for us to win." OKC lost several games which they should have won. At this point, Westwood is a great player, but I don't know if he's a winner, or has the brain to realize what he has to do to win. Too often, he seems like he's competing with Durant to show he's got a game too; and too often, Durant seems to be too passive. I am beginning to think that the only way OKC will win Finals is for their coach to change the tactics. I just saw too many OKC plays where Westwood and Harden tried to score and when they couldn't pass the damn ball to Durant with only 4 or 5 seconds left, forcing Durant to shoot even for him were not so good shots -- yes, I like Durant a lot, so I want OKC to do well. Durant is the only NBA player who is on an equal level with LeBron; it is no fluke that these two were instrumental in USA winning against Span in Olympics.

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  15. watch this tribute to Jeremy...brought a tear to my eye...am going to miss jeffries, hope he'll do alright in Portland.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6v1m9dJ9M

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    1. I miss Jeffries too. Houston young guys can definitely learn a thing or two from his defense, hustle and leadership.

      The video did a great job capturing the joy and smiles of those who played with Jeremy. They're like one big family with Chandler and Jeffries (even Amare) as the big bros and Jeremy and Landry as little bros. And I'm impressed with Toney Douglas who cheered for Jeremy even when Jeremy took his PG position. I hope he can rejuvenate his career in Houston.

      Delete
    2. Anticipating how Chandler will play against JLin.
      I'm thinking JR will be fouling him so hard...[Kidd too.]

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    3. @via wong

      Yeah I really hope Royce White turns out to be the enforcer we think he will...JR is going to be trouble. I wonder if shump will be back in time to guard JLin...Prolly not, but it would be interesting :)

      Delete
    4. @Kenoshi

      Shump scheduled to return January, but you never know...

      Delete
  16. @nephelauxetic,
    You are using the comparison between Jlin and Steve Nash/Deron Williams (combined 30 years of NBA experience) to add to your argument that Jlin is a combo guard. You might as well be comparing Jeremy Lamb with Michael Jordon. To say that Jlin is a combo guard at this point is just ridiculous. He was essentially a rookie last year. Jlin had no training camp, had little chemistry with his teammates, and was the target of insane jealousy and ego's that were trying to stamp out the linsanity (both on his team and the other teams). The Miami Heat and Celtics at that point were hell bent on stopping him, and were treating those games during that stretch like they were the NBA finals. In addition, you had Mela-Noma back who admitted that he wasn't trying that hard in those games.
    I question whether you really watched all of his games...I saw every single one of his games. I saw a an exceptionally good rookie point guard (during the linsanity stretch he was incredible) who could both score and pass in any system. I also saw immense potential as a point guard, and even Amare compared him to Nash.

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  17. @jlinisasuperhero

    I have been arguing that JLIN is a combo guard for quite sometime now without ant progress so I'll stop. This will be my last post for this thread.

    Let us just agree to disagree. We'll see next season whether jeremy will be like steve nash or russell westbrook. I personally choose the second one.

    I admit that I didn't watch ALL of the games. I'm not necessarily a knicks fan but rather a Spurs fan so I have my own team to watch very closely. But I've seen Jeremy lin play and he reminds me of Ginobli as I have been posting in this thread.

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    Replies
    1. Jeremy Lin is simply a much better PLAYER than you make him out to be.

      He can score. He can pass. When his teammates aren't deliberately sabotaging him, he can protect the ball. He can win games, especially in the 4th quarter. Even when he's playing on one leg, he can beat playoff teams.

      On OUR beloved Spurs (I am just as big a Spurs fan as you are), Tim Duncan carries that team and auxiliary guys like Parker and Ginobili play off him. Just like Russell Westbrook doesn't run offenses because he relies on Kevin Durant and James Harden to siphon pressure off him, Parker and Ginobili rely on Duncan on both ends.

      Jeremy Lin is more like Duncan than Parker in that Jeremy Lin has historically created opportunities on both ends for others at every level of the game. There are a handful of players in the NBA that can do that, and Jeremy Lin is easily the best pg in the NBA at doing that (yes, over Nash who cannot bolster role players and this has a bit of tunnel vision in selecting his targets to pass to).

      Jeremy Lin took a sub 500 team and singlehandedly got them into the playoffs. That is the kind of feat that Tim Duncan does every season, though even I willingly acknowledge that Jeremy Lin likely will never reach Tim Duncan's level.

      Delete
    2. Nephe, I think we need one more year to see if your analysis is correct. At this point, it's hard to tell what kind of player JLin is, which was one reason why some teams did not want to pay a lot of money for him. All I know is he's a winner. I have seen time and time again a team who did not have highest-paid players win the Championship. I think Houston has some good players -- and I really think they have a decent chance to make playoffs -- but I don't know if they can get past the first round. I would not be surprised if Houston does better than Knicks. If they both make it to playoffs, I see Houston having a better chance to advance than Knicks.

      Delete
    3. @nephelauxetic,

      If you didn't watch ALL of Jeremy Lin's games especially during the 7-game win streak, I can understand why you would watch many "And-1" Youtube highlights and instantly be reminded of Manu and Russel Westbrook's scoring abilities.

      For many of us who watched all the games, we knew Jeremy studied Steve Nash tapes for many hours, asked his teammates where they prefer to receive the ball, and played as a PG to not only look to score but often times tried to penetrate to the basket only to find out there are no holes in the defense and brought the ball back out to reset the offense and find open teammates. This is exactly the PG mindset that reminded people that he played like Steve Nash. Oh yeah, and Jeremy himself aspired to be a PG like Steve Nash.

      As for the comparison with Westbrook, Westbrook only had 4 out of 66 games (6%) with double-digit assists (the most is 11) as a starter while Jeremy had 7 out of 25 games (28%) with double-digit assists (the most is 14) as a starter. What does this number tell us? That Jeremy Lin aspires to be a great PG more than Westbrook does.

      You can definitely choose to assess that Jeremy is a better scorer than a PG now and choose to find supporting evidence that he will continue to do so in the future. But hopefully you also keep an open mind not to ignore the facts that Jeremy himself prepares, plays, and aspires to be a great PG plus many PG Hall-of-Famers acknowledged Jeremy's innate abilities as a PG.

      Personally, if Jerry West and Bob Cousy with 7 NBA championship rings think Jeremy is a budding PG star, that's good enough for me. But we can definitely agree to disagree.

      Delete
    4. @nephelauxetic,

      I think this would be a great time to catch up on JLin's games. He's a superb PG, not a combo guard, hands down.

      What makes me believe that he'll do even better this year, is that last season he managed what he did under tremendous pressure without time for practice/camp. Talent aside, its clear he probably did a lot of homework, but nothing beats experience, which tbh explains some of those TOs he had, where Chandler/Amare simply wasn't fast enough for him.

      He's a bona-fide diamond in the rough, give him a team that wants to win, and a coach that will polish his game, and watch him take the team to the next level.

      TBH I had really wished JLin/Carmelo developed into a good duo. But JLin wants to play teamball and listen to the coach, while Carmelo was anything but, hence the fissure between the two, imo its just JLin getting caught in the crossfire between D'Antoni and Melo. They were finally starting to look good with Woodson as well, really sucks that JLin injured out.

      He's going to have real struggles in the west, it'll be interesting watching Rockets vs OKC.

      Delete
  18. If Jeremy Lin is supposedly a shooting guard first, then why isn't he doing shooting guard things in the NBA?

    I haven't seen Lin curling off the flex in picks, utilizing v cuts to free himself for openings off the 3 point line, posting up in the lane for scores, or chasing opposing shooting guards around picks. I also have no doubt that Lin could easily do those things in the NBA if he were used that way.

    Lin typically sets up in the middle of the court or on the perimeter wings. From there, he tries to set guys up first. If an opening develops, he takes it himself. He is tasked with getting the ball to the right players in his offense. On defense, Lin quarterbacks the defense and typically guards the point guard who brings the ball up court and gets teams into their sets.

    Those are NBA point guard skills, and Jeremy Lin has amply proven to be as good as anybody doing them. When his teammates aren't sabotaging him, Lin produces the way an All NBA point guard would. Even when his teammates are actively trying to make Lin look bad, his skill level as a point guard is so high that the Knicks kept winning with Lin in charge.

    Lin does those "point guard things" as well as any point guard in the NBA does. That is why Houston is paying so much money to him so that he can be the franchise player.

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    1. @nephelauxetic,
      I too am a huge Spurs fan though my default home team is the Warriors (uggh...don't even get me started). The Spurs are the antitheses of the clown-like organization known as the Knicks. The may be considered boring, but they have a group of unselfish players that are about winning in addition to a great head coach. I still remember when David Robinson and Tim Duncan won a championship together for the first time in the NBA lock-out shortened season. Comparing Ginobili and Lin is definitely not an insult...Ginobili is an exceptional player, but I think you overlook the point guard intangibles that Jlin brings ie court vision, leadership, heart, willingness to pass first, etc.. He makes teammates better unlike Mela-Noma.

      The only thing stopping Jlin from being the next great point guard is injury. I am definitely concerned about his durability..I was a huge Yao fan before, and I forgot about how good he was until I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxLpeaUvhsc . Unfortunately, a true hall of fame career was derailed by injury..let's hope it's not the same with Jlin.

      Delete
  19. As much as I don't like Kobe all that much, he does give a due respect to other players -- in other words, he is not biased. Maybe the fact that he lived in Europe allows him to be more objective, I don't know.

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    1. Kobe has nothing to prove to anybody. He's already won MVP, multiple Championships, and every award you can think of. If he were to retire today, his legacy will live on as one of the All time greatest players. He understands how important other stars are to marketing the game.

      Carmelo on the other hand has a lot to prove. He's never won anything, despite being a "superstar scorer". He doesn't care about promoting the sport of basketball in the US, China, Europe, or anywhere.

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  20. Just watched the yanks spank the red sox with Ichiro 2 homers woo. I was pretty surprised all the racist stuff coming out on the espn comments. Given Boston has a bad rep for attacking their own guy but when Granderson or Chaves smoked the red sox I did not see this surge in racial comments. It seems when dealing with someone of any Asian descent it is a free for all while other ethnicities there is somewhat of restraint.

    I think of our guy Jeremy Lin and what he went through in college and the NBA this guy deserves a Jackie Robinson type award. Look at how quickly New York turned against him and most were never really fans to begin with but just enjoyed a circus type act so to speak. They just love to hate on the Asian kid ch8nk in the armor headlline for petes sake is just the tip of iceberg. I hate how he has to prove himself all over again in H-town but what he is doing just by being out there is a success in itself. But what a battle there still is ahead. When even Black people are oblivious to their racially charged attacks (carmelo, jr, spike, sas, floyd, etc) you know there is something seriously screwed up in society.

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  21. A bad PG is someone who only passes if he is unable to score. An average PG is someone who can "see the floor" and pass it to the player who is already open to score.

    A good PG will CREATE open looks for other players, by forcing the defense to leave someone wide open, he will also identify the spots where a player likes to score, and finds the guy who is shooting a "hot" streak .

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  22. From the point of an average knowledge in bb, I have a few points to make in view of JLIN as a bb player :
    1) Fans alike should give him some time to develop as an elite PG; considering the short span of time he was given on the court and to mesh with all these teams in the past (Warrior, Rockets & Knicks). With 3 yrs contract with Rockets, I hope he can make use this opportunity to upgrade/ polish his skills and decrease his TO.
    2) ROCKETS has to establish it roster ASAP before the training season starts and define what kind of team ROCKETS in this season and the following. I don't expect much improvement yet for this team for this season but if they play it right as a team and develop positive team chemistry and cohesiveness, ROCKETS will definately have a brihter future.
    3) Of course JLIN has to mentally and phusically prepare to play in a full season. It is unfair to compare him to any of the past and present elite PGs for he has yet given the opportunity as a starter but did demonstrate a very strong drive to achieve and to success as a team not just as an individual player.
    4) Finally, bb not an one man team/game; every member play an important role to turn the ROCKETS in to flop or elite, is all up to them. Miami Heat has been playing tremendously thru out he season with impressive game play and desire to win. The youngster on Rockets must have that burning desire to win and put up an competetive not necessary a winning game.

    ReplyDelete
  23. From the point of an average knowledge in bb, I have a few points to make in view of JLIN as a bb player :
    1) Fans alike should give him some time to develop as an elite PG; considering the short span of time he was given on the court and to mesh with all these teams in the past (Warrior, Rockets & Knicks). With 3 yrs contract with Rockets, I hope he can make use this opportunity to upgrade/ polish his skills and decrease his TO.
    2) ROCKETS has to establish it roster ASAP before the training season starts and define what kind of team ROCKETS in this season and the following. I don't expect much improvement yet for this team for this season but if they play it right as a team and develop positive team chemistry and cohesiveness, ROCKETS will definately have a brihter future.
    3) Of course JLIN has to mentally and phusically prepare to play in a full season. It is unfair to compare him to any of the past and present elite PGs for he has yet given the opportunity as a starter but did demonstrate a very strong drive to achieve and to success as a team not just as an individual player.
    4) Finally, bb not an one man team/game; every member play an important role to turn the ROCKETS in to flop or elite, is all up to them. Miami Heat has been playing tremendously thru out he season with impressive game play and desire to win. The youngster on Rockets must have that burning desire to win and put up an competetive not necessary a winning game.

    ReplyDelete

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