I love to listen to Doc talk shop. Let's remember as he says, this is just the beginning for JLin. He will only get better (No, he is not a flash in the pan. He will not regress to the mean):
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine Houston Rockets, I'm told, have formally waived ex-Nets/Mavs/Celts center Sean Williams. Move actually happened Monday 8:39 PM - 28 Aug 12
Lamb hasn't played a single game in the NBA yet. These rankings don't mean much. It's just something for fans to get riled up about before the season starts.
It's funny to see fat slobs sitting on their fat butts, behind the microphone or typing up deeply biased rants about star athletes .... when the writers themselves were NEVER athletic enough to compete at ANY level. How can they criticize ?
6:54 "His mindset the whole game was to attack the rim, attack the rim, attack the rim ... but to keep his health, we’ve been working a lot on different finishes that put him in harms way"
Doc and Jeremy knows he can't continue attacking the baskets and not risk his health so I'm so glad they worked hard on it.
I also love the part to emulate the quick release of Kevin Durant and Ray Allen to be a great shooter.
The scary thing about Jeremy's potential is he has hit so many big shots at 23 even when he's not a consistent shooter yet.
He just needs to learn the power of visualization from MJ that tapped his first winning shot for NCAA championship to the confidence of hitting big shots one after another.
Doc said a great shooter like Ray Allen consistently moving without the ball to visualize how he will shoot it once he gets the ball. It's amazing how the body will follow our mind once you can visualize it. Doc is realy a great shooting coach.
Most definitely. Doc also said the key is balance in the video.
Perhaps what might be hard for Jeremy to do at first is to intentionally finish differently after attacking the rim other than making the basket and getting 'and-1' that is his trademark. That would go against his natural instinct and his strength but he needs to do it to be versatile knowing teams will do anything to stop him from going to the basket.
Somehow I got a bad feeling that many teams are willing to inflict punishment and even injury to stop him rather than getting embarrassed. He would need to have Plan B and Plan C depending on how teams plan to stop him.
I still believe his number 1 goal this season is to stay healthy throughout the season. Play smart as a facilitator in the first 3 quarters to help his young teammates grow and put on his cape as a scorer in the the 4th quarter if the team is trailing behind within 15 points.
I wish Lin can hang out with his fellow Bay Area native Gary Payton for a few days once he gets back from Taiwan. Payton's one of the most nastiest and toughest guard defenders of all time. He would be a great mentor for Lin especially learning the "dirty" parts of being a nba guard as I don't think Lin has any guard mentor/coach in Houston as of right now.
Gary also said Lin played no D. Always wonder why Gary didn't teach Lin some D then. But actually Lin got a very unfair reputation of being a bad defender. Anyway, a great one on one perimeter defender isn't as effective in today's game as in the Payton generation. Supposedly great defenders like AI or Tony Allen or Iman Shumpert still get lit up a lot.
In a literal sense, there is no way Lin could play D in Payton if Payton wouldn't grant Lin's request to play 1 on 1.
Gary Payton is a million time All Star and a future Hall of Famer. Such guys have nothing to fear from undrafted no name rookies from Harvard, RIGHT???!
Gary Payton was scared to take him under his wing because Lin is Asian and he did not come from a top flight college program. He only help out a favor to lin's agent.
Look at how much he helped the bust Terrence Williams. Lin does not need a hater like Payton.
Doesn't sound too bad at least from this article. I'm sure Payton doesn't follow Lin's career, so he may not have seen Lin's D's. Sounds like they worked more on offense then defense.
According to Payton, they still text mesg each other.
It will be a huge mistake if he stops attacking the basket so much. The best players play near the rim. Getting free throws is a way to get consistent points no matter how you're shooting. It gets people in foul trouble. People in foul trouble have to back off. It also puts enormous pressure on defensive rotations.
The idea that people get serious injuries from attacking the basket is ludicrous. Sure, it hurts to get smacked in the face, but that's not where missed games in the NBA come from. People don't tear their ACLs getting hacked at the basket. Allen Iverson never stopped attacking the basket and he was near the top of the NBA in fta/game every year. And he was a lot smaller. Lin's toughness should be celebrated and encouraged because that's the best part of his game, not something to be afraid of.
I don't know what people think, but it's just not that big of a deal to get slammed to the court a few times a game. It doesn't wear you out or make you tired.
Lin is not that small. James Harden is near the top of the NBA in fta/36 because he drives a lot. Should he stop attacking the basket? Should Dwyane Wade? Why on earth is Lin considered a delicate flower compared to others his size?
People have been telling him to not drive so much for years and he hasn't listened so far. I dearly hope it stays that way.
Allen Iverson, James Harden, and Dwayne Wade all have one thing that Jeremy Lin may NEVER have in the NBA:
referee respect.
Jeremy Lin gets utterly bashed in the paint like no player I have ever seen. If Iverson or Harden or Wade had been hit by three flagrant fouls all at once the way Jason Kidd and the Mavs hit Lin for a nonflagrant call, there likely would have been fines and suspensions.
I absolutely despise the NBA's superstar officiating. A foul is a foul!
The referees have historically protected Steve Nash, though the Spurs hip check by Robert Horry was an isolated incident.
Jeremy Lin has taken more flagrant foul hits than any other player I have ever seen in NBA history. Opponents know that the referees won't call " Lin fairly, and so Lin is constantly getting bashed at a level that a guy like Nash has experienced only a few times in his entire career.
If Jeremy Lin were ref protected like Steve Nash is, Lin would average 8-10 free throw attempts a game. Lin would be the Asian Dantley, living at the line!
I agree with Michael Terry that JLin should not hesitate driving to the basket when the opportunities are there. Of course, if the opponents are laying off him and daring him to shoot makable shots, then he should not hesitate to shoot. JLin should never forego a good opportunity to drive to the basket.
Michael, the idea that NBA players get serious injuries from aggresively attacking the basket is not without merit. Let's take a sample data of famous NBA players to analyze.
Consider the career of Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan who all have exceptional athleticism and aggressive style of attacking the basket, which reminds me very much of Jeremy's style of play.
DWade (6'4", 220 lbs) is 30 and in his 9th year in the NBA but his aggressive style of play has been slowly catching up to him. The perennial All-Star shooting guard missed 17 games this season, suffering injuries to his finger and legs, in addition to dealing with soreness in several body parts. Wade's stats took a hit as well, his 22.1 points per game were his lowest since his rookie season, as were the 4.6 assists he put up. Fans forget that he has already dealt with several bad injuries in the course of his career. A sprained shoulder caused him to miss more than 30 games in the 2006-2007 season, and he has also problems with his ankles and knees that have forced him off the court.
DRose (6'3", 190lbs) is just 23 and in his 4th year just suffered a major injury with torn ACL after coming down awkwardly on his left knee in the final minutes of Game 1 victory in the 1st round of playoff. He previously was missing a lot of games due to partial MCL tear interestingly happened when driving to the basket and his shot got blocked by Jeremy Lin. I believe he was not fully recovered enough to play in the playoff.
On the other hand, MJ (6'6", 216lbs) played 15 seasons and his main injury was a broken bone on his foot in the second season when he came down hard on it. He was known as mainly his dunking abilities and not as a shooter/defensive guy but every season he improved on every area that he became a complete player.
What does this tell us? For sure, DWade and DRose are not MJ. We can pinpoint to MJ's genetics and freakish athleticism but what we learned is he learned from his injury and work on all aspects in offense/defense to become a complete player. The greatest player in the NBA is literally a genius (154 IQ) refused to become one-dimensional player and transformed himself to a complete player with no weakness on court. I'm sure many fans would hope Jeremy follows MJ's career path.
There is a lot more aggressive players like Steve Francis, Brandon Roy and many more who suffered career-ending injuries. Anytime NBA players use the knees frequently to change direction and collide with big players driving to the basket, they have more risk to get injuries than players who don't. The law of physics and NBA stats don't lie.
I'm not saying Jeremy should not attack the baskets because we all enjoy it but we also don't want him to be one-dimensional and have a slew of career-ending injuries. He should follow MJ's path to be a complete player.
Sorry, but you're really reaching with those examples. None of what you wrote is fact-based, just speculation.
Obviously, we won't know until we see him play again, but my fear is that Doc Sheppler may have a net negative effect on Jeremy. Hopefully not, but I don't like what I'm hearing. Turning Jeremy into a soft jump-shooter is a terrible idea.
IMHO DWade's and DRose's injury when driving hard to the baskets are facts. You can definitely find reports and videos easily.
And don't worry, I don't think Doc is turning Jeremy to a jump-shooter. The way I understand it, he helped Jeremy to practice a variety of finish when attacking the baskets so it could be a floater, fadeaway jumper which were things that he has done successfully in the past season (i.e. the Lakers game).
I completely agree he should continue to be aggressive driving to the basket which made him successful but with a variety of finish. We don't know what they are but I'm hoping it resembles his 38-point explosion against the Lakers.
I have been slammed down many times going to the rim, and I would never say that it "doesn't wear guys out or make them tired!"
Anybody who's played pickup hoops, let along organized basketball, knows what it's like to take a severe hit. It knocks your wind out, it turns you upside down, sometimes you black out, and you can hurt afterwards for days or weeks or even months.
Thus I disagree 100% with Michael Terry's assertions that hard fouls cannot injure Lin. I'd go so far to say that Lin would have played more games if he weren't constantly being bashed with hard uncalled contact.
I definitely know how it felt, KHuang. I officially retired from playing pickup hoops with weekend warriors after getting my third-degree torn ACL while fighting for a rebound courtesy of someone ramming his knee sideways. I can feel my knee bent sideways for 45 degree while I was still jumping in the air. Definitely not fun!
All of this due to someone getting upset that I was grabbing a lot more rebounds than what he thought I should get. Was racism a factor? Some but I don't dwell on it. A lot more fools than racists playing pick-up hoops.
#1j, I remember reading a fascinating article on how Jordan taught Pippen how to absorb contact and still made the basket. He would prepare to put more momentum to hit the other guy so he wouldn't be thrown off-balance. MJ was simply the best at it.
He is the only player I have seen who I could predict the whistle blowing BEFORE he got fouled!
Larry Bird wrote in his book that if Jordan was on a typical playground, guys would be pushing and shoving him in a way they never would in the ref assisted NBA.
Hopefully the refs indeed call fouls on guys that hack Jeremy Lin, though it doesn't have to be at a Jordan level or anything like that!
KHuang, I'm sure David Stern sees how much excitement Jeremy generates in China/HK/Taipei and he has an unwritten message to the refs to protect his NBA ambassador in Asia :)
Don't people realize that it only brings harm to the NBA in the long run if double-standard officiating is not curtailed?
It's really myopic to think NBA belongs to the American Blacks(without any racist intention to bring up color here) only. NBA is a business. The world is a borderless business stage. There is still so much untapped potential in the NBA business and yet...well, hopefully David Stern is visionary enough to be more involved in straighten things up.
Those model women probably wanted JLin for his fame, and his role as a New York Knicks. I wonder if they are still interested after Linsanity moved to Houston.
Seriously questioning whether that girl is a faithfull groupy? LOL. It doesnt really matter. Having someone go public and show such a sign makes JLin sexy. Thats the only point.
We have had that discussion about the media and the preferences people have and how things correlate.
Had some caucasian gone public a century ago and publicly anounced that he or she finds a black man or woman sexy - that person would have been labeled sick or indecent or whatever. Talking about love? That would have been a taboo. Today - that is not a problem anymore.
When it comes to asian men - things are still developing. In real life - asian men attract and date all sorts of women (or men if you insist) but in the media - thats still a problem (dunno why). Anyway - its nice to see that.
I kinda wish that Lin can break the stereotype and date a non-Asian girl! I have read a lot of comments from Lin's fans especially female fans all expect and insist that Lin must get a girlfriend of Chinese ascent. I understand the concept of usually linking people with similar background. But I hope Lin can break this stereotype that Asian men are unattractive to girls of other races, especially black. How often do you ever see a Chinese man with a black lady together? I hope he date all sorts of girls and prove that Asians can get it done with all races. Lol!
Black women are the group least likely to date males of other races, and this includes all races, not just Asian. I won't go into the reasons why, but rest assured that it has nothing to do with attractiveness.
And for the record, there would be absolutely nothing wrong for Lin to marry a Chinese woman, and a whole lot of positives would come from it. (The dating thing ... let us just say that I am old-fashioned! We used to call it "courting", as in seeking a future spouse.) As far as using romantic relationships to attack cultural stereotypes ... I say leave that sort of thing to those vapid Hollywood celebrities and reality show types. (Whatever stereotype that could be broken by Lin taking up with Kim Kardashian, for instance, needs to remain in place.) Lin should be free to limit himself to courting and marrying whatever high character woman that he feels comfortable taking to his father and mother, and to his church also.
I know Lin has no obligation to break this stereotype but at the same time I feel that he also should not feel obligated to date or marry an Asian (particularly Chinese) girl only. Because I feel there are too many people who are narrow minded about this matter. Too many people automatically assume that Lin must date/marry a Chinese girl only! Actually I suspect that Lin and his family are exactly these same type of traditional people although I couldn't prove it. I understand there is nothing wrong for Lin to date/marry a Chinese girl but I think there is nothing wrong to date/marry another race either. And I don't understand what positives you think marrying the same race that with another race don't have. I kinda feel strong about this matter because I know my parents are exactly the kind of Chinese people who couldn't accept their children marry another race!
Don't get me wrong. I have no problems with interracial marriage whatsoever. And I also think that a lot of positives could come from black women marrying Asian men, but again another story for another forum that has nothing to do with our hoping that Jeremy Lin puts up monster stats while leading the Rockets to the playoffs and beyond.
Daryl Morey: "I think our goal for this year ... is we fight for a playoff spot, even though it's one of the most challenging years to do that. The West is strong and if we were to make the playoffs, it means a lot of good things will have happened. Namely Jeremy Lin, Omer Asik or somebody else emerges to become an All-Star. "I think that's a stretch goal, but were not going to go into the year saying we're not going fight. Along the way we'll keep trying to take advantage of every opportunity to make moves that will make us better."
Boris Diaw was a very good player for the suns especially in the 2005-2006 season. I think he had triple doubles. He could play 1 to 5. The only problem for diaw was he didn't stay in tip top shape. I actually like his versatility. Royce is probably the better ballhandler and Diaw is the better shooter. I hope he gets into NBA shape for my Spurs.
Anyways, some rockets players resemble some players from the 2005-2006 Suns team that was expected to suck but managed 54 wins despite an injured Stoudemire.
Royce White - Boris Diaw Chandler Parsons - Shawn Marion Jeremy Lin - Steve Nash Jeremy Lamb > Raja Bell Omer Asik ? Kurt Thomas
Good resemblance and that season Amar'e was injured. I think they will surprise a lot of people. I can see Chandler Parsons and Jeremy Lamb being really good. Kevin Martin will have a better season playing with Lin. Royce White and Terrence Jones will be competing for the PF spot. My only concern are the 5 spot and good backup for Lin. Toney Douglas is not a PG and Asik can't score. Who's available Darko? Yi? Andray Blatche?
I don't think Kevin Martin will play well with Lin:
"Conventional wisdom is confirmed in several cases. For instance, most would expect that highscoring 2-guards teamed with high-scoring, high turnover point guards would not fit well together (2- 2-7, -4.78); the data supports this intuition, as teams with these players as their top 3 significantly underperformed their expected win total, given their talent level and coaching ability."
That's nice highfalutin' analysis and all, but stats of those nature ALWAYS neglect the human element.
The human element is that Lin's Knick teammates resented his success and often refused to catch his passes or bail him out on double and triple teams.
I have a far more telling stat that applies directly to Kevin Martin. Steve Novak went from many years of earning a minimum salary to a multiuser guaranteed contract averaging about $3 million a year. That's because Lin did what no other NBA PG had done: find Novak on the perimeter and jack Novak's scoring from 3 ppg to 12 ppg.
No, Jeremy Lin will have no trouble assisting Kevin Martin provided that Martin remains on the Rockets.
D'Antoni's system is friendly to ball dominant PGs as well as catch and shoot players i.e. Novak. Not friendly to ball dominant ISO players i.e. Melo.
Steve Novak is a catch and shoot player. Martin is a ball dominant guard.
Martin struggled in a PG-centric offense. http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2011/12/martin-knows-he-must-get-in-the-flow-of-rockets-offense/
Stats are supposed to nullify human element because when human element is involved, we know happens to balanced perspectives which I won't care to elaborate anymore. LOL.
Jeremy Lin is not the pg of the 2011-2012 Rockets.
Additionally, Kevin Martin is a fine NBA guard who can thrive under any system. He has been getting it done all his career whether he had a supportive team or not.
I wouldn't be as quick as Mr. Screwup to write off both Lin and Martin as being incapable of playing with another based on stats they have not accumulated with each other.
I am sure Martin and Lin will be just fine. They're getting paid all that money to produce, and they will.
Kevin Martin can play well off the ball if given a chance. He's a good spot up shooter and can cut to the basket. He was putting up good numbers for Sacramento alongside Mike Bibby, Brad Miller, and Beno Udrih as passers.
I admit I haven't watched much of Kevin Martin for the last few years. But I don't think Martin ever had a reputation of being a "ball dominant guard".
Was curious what other rockets ranked on ESPN. Here's what's available now:
267 Jeremy Lamb 280 Shaun Livingston 290 Royce White 311 Terrence Jones 318 Marcus Morris 321 Toney Douglas 324 Donatas Motiejunas 349 Gary Forbes 367 Jon Brockman 388 JaJuan Johnson 471 Courtney Fortson 428 Sean Williams(Waived) 484 Greg Smith 495 Diamon Simpson
He is an aggressive defensive player who does best with what I call an "Allen Iverson" offense.
Iverson would isolate himself at the top of the three point line facing the basket straight down. The other four players would run a four man flex offense designed to position themselves ready for bailout passes. Iverson would then attack, as no one in the NBA could stop him off the dribble. Essentially it's a four corners offense with the ball starting at the top instead of in the middle.
I think of Toney Douglas as a poor man's Allen Iverson. He shoots from outside about as effectively as Iverson did, but Douglas lacks the blazing footspeed and gymnast like body control that allowed Iverson to blow past anyone and finish in the paint.
I can see Houston running an "Iverson" set with Toney Douglas while Jeremy Lin plays off the ball.
Douglas is an aggressive on-ball defensive player while Iverson picked up steals playing the passing lanes. We may be underrating Iverson's defense here but he wasn't known to be a ball hawk.
I don't even know where to start comparing them offensively. Simply put, Iverson is one of the best, if not the best of ALL TIME, little men at scoring the basketball. Toney Douglas? Not so much.
I just don't think you'd agree that I would be a poor man's Michael Jordan who's 4" shorter, slower, can't shoot, dribble, pass and jump as well as he did.
I don't get why people hate Douglas a backup PG. I actually think he will be fine here in Houston. He struggled in NY because they expected him to be the main ball handler and creator. But here, he will have capable ballhandlers and playmakers like Lamb, Royce White, Parsons in the 2nd unit alongside him so he doesn't really have to do the playmaking but can focus on being a defender and a shooter. Also I like Douglas' attitude. He doesn't have much of an ego unlike someone like Machado. I think Douglas knows he needs a good season to remain in the nba.
I see Douglas as Houston's Gary Neal. Undersized SG who gives you some instant offense off the bench. I think he could have a comeback year playing his natural role.
True, his lack of playmaking skills could be mitigated by playing alongside a point-forward like Royce White. But I don't think Royce will be ready to play heavy minutes until midseason. Unless he polishes his offensive game, developing some post moves or a mid-range jumper, teams will just play him to pass.
White might benefit from a stint in D-League. And Machado even more so.
Wait, don't the Rockets already have a player named Gary Neal on their roster ? They traded away Kyle Lowry to Toronto for Gary Neal and a 1st Round pick.
So if Tony Douglas is like Gary Neal ... then who does GM Morley decide to keep.
I hope the Rockets make some trades pretty soon. I'd hate to see them cutting people left and right to trim down the roster. They already amnestied Scola and waived both Sean Williams and Josh Harrelson, giving up on 3 big men and getting absolutely nothing in return is a waste of talent.
At least trade some guys for late 1st round or 2nd round draft picks.
They have Gary FORBES. Not Gary Neal (he's on the Spurs). I think you might have confused them because of a recent rumor that the Rockets were looking to trade for Gary Neal.
Nice vid of Toney Douglas from 2010 (against the Bulls)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fchR8LH5MgQ
He runs the PnR with Turiaf @ 1:10, leading to a sweet wrap-around pass and dunk. Hmm, maybe Douglas CAN play backup PG (even without a point-forward).
Toney Douglas isn't a PG or even a combo guard. He is a SG. Here is Douglas' backstory. He was a SG in high school and for his first year in college. After his first year in college, he entered the NBA draft. The NBA guys told him that he was not going to get drafted because of his height, and that he needed to switch to PG if he wanted to get drafted. So, he withdrew from the draft and asked his college coach to move him to PG. The coach refused, because Douglas is a SG and can't play PG. Douglas only wanted the college to help him get to the NBA, but the college coach was concerned with winning college games. So Douglas found another college, one that was rebuilding and willing to let him play PG just to get an athlete of his caliber into their program, but it didn't work. Finally in his last year at that program, they gave up on having Douglas play the PG role in the offense and just let him be their scorer. At no point in college did Douglas ever average 3 assist per game, but he led his college team in scoring 3 years out of 4. But it worked. Even though he was actually a SG who wasn't that good at handling the ball and was horrible at running the offense and passing, because his second college was willing to call him a PG instead of a SG, he was a 1st round draft pick and has made his $3 million dollars.
Good for him financially and for his getting to work the college athletics system in order to realize his dream of getting to the NBA. But the Knicks have already wasted a 2nd round draft pick and $3 million that they gave to the Lakers for his rights, several years letting the guy take up space on the bench and in their developmental programs, and his salary trying to turn a SG into a point guard.
Hopefully the Knicks will play Douglas as a backup SG (not combo guard but SG only) and go out and get a real backup PG. Maybe they can come up with some system where Douglas can guard the other team's PG on defense, but on offense he comes off the ball, and the SF or SG handles the ball, runs the offense and creates opportunities for everybody else. That is the only way that Douglas will ever be effective for the Rockets or anybody else.
I don't feel that Douglas is that bad. I followed NYK quite a lot last season. I heard some fans said Douglas played with a hurt shoulder all season and that affected his shooting a lot. If he could return to his shooting as in his rookie season, he's serviceable.
You want a backup pg? My SPURS can give you Gary Neal , Matt Bonner, Blair and maybe even some draft Picks for D-Mo. I really feel he's too talented. I feel he's the missing piece for my SPURS.
Gary Neal is a better backup pg than Livingston and Douglas. He's also a terrific shooter and can sometimes play as a sg. You could trade Blair and Bonner for other pieces or even some high draft picks. The rockets have too many PF so giving one away won't hurt them. Hopefully, the Spurs can pry D-Mo from the rockets. That would make them title favorites (BOOK IT).
Sorry if I've expressed some of my personal preferences. Anyways, Neal is a good pickup for the rockets.
Hi all - I'm new to writing on this site but have been following and reading for quite a while... love this site!! Anyway, I've been hunting around for other NBA rankings to see where JLin is currently placed. And not sure how good this list is from cbssports.com
This has Jlin ranked as the # 56 in the point guard list and #226 overall!!! Was looking to see if anyone had seen this list before and know how they calculate the ranking. I'm just so surprised as to who they have above Lin in the PG.
The site states "The rankings are a total player-rating system based on various offensive and defensive statistics. Players increase their scores with every contribution they make to the game."
I mean they have Shumpert ahead of Lin in the PG list @ #35, really? Even Shaun Livingston is ahead of Line at #46 with Raymond Felton at # 18 (WHAT?!?)
Anyway, I couldn't figure it out just by looking at the stats that was on the listing... Anyone heard of this list and know anything about it?
I think cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings is using an algorithm factoring in last 30 days of regular season. Notice D.Rose ranked 30th for PGs. That's barely making the starting rotation. The #56th PG should be on the bench. Circling back to the ESPN rankings, I think Royce White has lots of upside, but the other 3 Rockets' rookies are probably ahead of White on the learning curve. I expect White to struggle in his first year, and perhaps finding his game near the end of the season, or next year. He will definitely struggle on the road. I think T.Jones should be ranked highest of the 4 rookies, followed by Lamb, Donatas, then White. Of course, I'm basing a lot of this from summer league action. As for JLin's backup, I think they will need to throw in a shooting guard, and play 3 guards w/ R.White at the 4. I do not see Livingston or T.Douglas getting regular minutes because then it becomes an 11 man rotation every game.
My perception of him is that he's not bulky enough to play power forward despite having a good solid skill set. For some reason, Terrence Jones reminds me a bit of Hakim Warrick.
The other thing I am noticing about NBA teams is that they are steadily digging deeper into their roster to play more guys. Compared to the game decades ago, today's NBA game is faster paced in halfcourt sets but not necessarily more effective. This results in teams having to use more players, particularly when injury strikes.
Regarding today's game being less effective, lack of traditional big men, lack of traditional post up game contribute to it. As we all know, the closer range the shot is, the higher the % is. But nowadays, most big men play like guards.
And most guards play like forwards. Or to be truthful, like extremely athletic but unskilled forwards with no knowledge of or interest in how the game should be played. The only way to clean up the NBA would be to actually start calling fouls on traveling, carrying and double-dribble type violations, as well as on offensive fouls. Some say eliminating the three point shot, or at least moving the 3 point line back, would help. That would force players to go back to traditional post-ups, true point guards, actual passing, good shot selection etc.
It is David Stern's fault that the NBA developed like this. He should have used officiating as a way to keep the game from devolving when the trouble signs first started in the mid-1990s. He also should have started a true minor league (using the already in-existence CBA as a foundation) the instant that kids started bypassing college, so that players could have learned the actual game in the minor league system before they were allowed to play in the majors (the same that MLB and the NHL do). It is incredible how Stern gets to keep his job - he has served far longer than any other major sports commissioner in history - despite presiding over an absolute mess.
The brand grew because of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, and other athletes who could actually play, as well as marketing efforts from outside companies that Stern had nothing to do with (especially Nike). And when Jordan, Barkley and company retired, the NBA popularity dropped like a stone. They lost their NBC contract and the games for a time were only available on cable. Now some of their games are shown on network TV, but only because of the relationship between ESPN and ABC. (If the same company didn't own ESPN and ABC, their games wouldn't be on ABC.) Some of their franchises have gone out of business, others have had to move to places like Oklahoma City, Brooklyn and Memphis, and one team has no owner - it is owned by the other franchises collectively - because they can't find a buyer. And there is a rumor that Sacramento is going to move to Virginia.
I have to agree with this Stern is a disaster. But His job however is a lot harder than what people think it is. He has a black league with no white superstars. This fact makes it harder to market to the 70% white population that exists in the U.S
The real people that saved the nba was Magic and more so Bird. For the 1st time in years white people had team and player to root for. This was the true apex for the nba. when bird and magic left Jordan and his hyper marketing machine keep the nba popular for the next 5 years 1992-1997 when Jordan retired the NBA popularity dropped like a stone.
Wow, excellent posts Unlnown. Your posts on this thread are extraordinary! My compliments!
To add to what you have already written, I also propose eliminating the 3 second lane violation, the 5 second holding rule, the 5 (or is it 8?) second backcourt violation, and all other "time" violations that have no place in playground basketball. Superstars routinely abuse these rules, and not necessarily because refs prefer them.
Another thing I would do is put a 5 second shot clock on free throws that starts as soon as the ref hands the ball to a player.
Basically, any rule change that takes the referees out of the game and makes the NBA more like pickup basketball is good with me.
JLin didn't shoot very well. His shooting form didn't look that smooth for some reason. Also, didn't drive to his left at all. He should use these practices to drive to his left or post up, etc. I know he wasn't even playing hard but . . .
He better shoot well and drive to his left more efficiently. Hopefully, he can end this tour and just focus on Basketball. I want him to practice 10+ hours per day instead of 3 -4 hours per day. No More marketing. You could increase your marketability through high performance on the court. So, I want some action jeremy. Please after this, NO MORE. Do it again next offseason. Save the whole month of September and October for training and getting better. He needs to average at least 18 and 8. I'm going to be disappointed if he does average lower than those numbers.
I do agree that the best marketing is doing well on court rather than off court. I think he should just go to one country every year rather than doing the entire Asia tour.
I think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing.
I think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing.
Uncomfortable shot mechanics are exactly what I have been afraid of with Jeremy Lin and all those trainers trying to "fix him".
It could be that Lin is practicing and thus thinking TOO MUCH. Instead of trying to be such a picture shooter, he should just put the ball in the hole ising his natural body mechanics.
The thing is that even with his side soccer throw shot, Jeremy Lin STILL is a "picture shooter" if you compare him to historically great shooters like John Stockton, Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan, and Larry Bird among others.
When Lin goes up with his side shot, his right arm is right under the ball the way Red Auerbach and Larry Bird describe in their legendary "Winning Basketball" video. His follow through is smooth and he puts his legs into the shot. It is actually a "textbook" release as taught by one of the greatest shooters and one of the greatest coaches of all time.
When Lin puts the ball in the middle of his forehead to shoot, his right elbow is actually canted out the the side of the ball. Such a shot might work for a GIRL with girl elbows that naturally shoot out to the sides, but it won't work for a man whose elbows go straight.
Essentially Lin is in danger of shooting an Adolph Rupp type two handed set shot aimed from the middle of his forehead, with the accompanying low field goal percentage that was acceptable in Rupp's day but not in today's NBA!
For what it's worth, I do not believe in the "picture perfect" anything. If there was such a thing that anyone could aspire to with just a lot of practice, then all NBA players should be perfect shooters. The key is is finding the "perfect form" for one's body and recognizing unique tendencies and then improving on them. I figure since JLin is a good FT shooter, he should be able to shoot very well.
There are two big differences I see in players of the post Jordan era vs. players of the pre Jordan era.
The biggest difference is that today players get a lot more coaching than they used to, and not necessarily for the better.
In the old days, players would spend their offseasons UNSUPERVISED and would experiment with their games against mainly rec league talent. They would come back the following season with new moves while not altering the fundamental things that got them into the NBA to begin with.
Today players are surrounded by armies of trainers, most of whom have never played or even coached at the professional level. These trainers excel at getting their players to win shooting contests in empty gyms and upping their athletic agility and strength numbers. But too often the player ends up trying to apply techniques that have long been proven ineffective at the NBA level.
I think it was ESPN that wrote an article about how incoming Pistons rookie Andre Drummond was getting all this crazy coaching that was messing with his ability to make shots. The article also cited Andris Biedrins and even John Wall I think.
I won't say that Coach Diepenbrock is teaching Jeremy Lin the wrong stuff or that he shouldn't be with Sparta. But Jeremy Lin has to remember WHO HE IS and stick to those 80s style fundamentals that he learned from his father and brothers. After all, it was Lin's applications of those fundamentals that got him to the NBA and kept him there.
If I could give a word of advice to Jeremy Lin through his family or friends, it would be to think about REVERTING to that good ol' shot that guys like Adrian Dantley (led the NBA in scoring at the same height as Lin with 30+ ppg) and John Stockton (shorter than Lin but extremely deadly as a side throwing shooter) successfully used in the past.
I am terrified that Jeremy Lin will start the 2012-2013 season with an extended shooting slump caused by poor mechanics taught by well meaning (and WELL PAID) trainers who have never set foot on an NBA basketball court.
I don't think you need to have "set foot on an NBA basketball court" to be able to help am NBA player. I know a few very good trainers who never played or coached in the NBA.
Jeremy biggest flaw, IMO, with his shooting is an easily correctable one. The way he holds the ball leads him to be an inconsistent shooter. He grips the ball too close to his palms. Ideally, the "textbook" way to hold it while shooting is mainly through your fingers and your upper palm. You want your hands to be wide and be able to fit two fingers in between your palm and the basketball. Google a picture of Jeremy shooting and you should notice that his hands are too narrow and he controls it with his palm.
He became decent through tons of practice, but he would have become a better shooter sooner if his fundamentals and technique were better.
I'm sure Doc Scheppler is knowledgeable about basketball. His Pinewood Girls teams have been very successful, but to portray him as some kind of genius is a little funny to me.
The way he's "coaching" Jeremy is something I'd say to a shooting type. It's like something Monta Ellis probably hears from his trainers. "Oh, just keep bombing away no matter how much you miss..." Obviously, I'm kind of joking, but as a PG, the last thing you want to do is shoot your team out of the game if you're not hitting your shot. And you've got to constantly attack to hoop, not only so you can get fouled and go to the line for easy points and a chance to find a rhythm, but to create for your teammates, which is the primary duty of a PG.
Anyway, I think there's a bit of overreaction over what he did in a pick-up game with a bunch of weekenders. It's not really that big a deal. Jeremy's never been a "great" shooter, and that hasn't prevented him from being a really good player. Sorry, but shooting a good percentage on unguarded shots in practice doesn't make anyone great. I'm sure Russell Westbrook makes most of his shots in practice and he's no great shooter.
It could just be a bad night of shooting during practice that carried over to the game.
But IMHO there was one major thing he did consistently that didn't look right to me in the video.
He kept pushing back his upper body right before he released the ball as if he tried to do fadeaway jumpers all the time. It's hard to be consistent in shooting the ball if our head and upper body keep moving around at the point of release. He ended up short in one shot, then pushed the ball long to compensate, etc.
Check out these 3 shots and let me know if you agree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWUi3r3gNu0&feature=player_embedded 0:13 Made 2PT stop-and-shoot but upper body is falling back after release 0:48 Missed 3PT short. Looked good up to release but kicked legs forward after release? 3:22 Missed 3 PT a bit long. A bit of a push. Still pushed back the upper body after release.
In comparison, watch back-to-back 3 PTs at 4:26 & 5:03 for a guy whose upper body was still balanced at the point of release.
Now I want to compare how his shooting form looked during his 38-pt game against the Lakers. To me, his shots during that game looked "right" and feathery smooth feeling to it so he did something consistently right in that game.
His feet aren't landing in the same spot when he lands. He isn't going straight up. You're right Psalm, he's sort of leaning back. It's a little odd to me that he such wide variation in his misses. It's right or left or long or short. I was (and am) a very good shooter and my misses are usually rim-outs or short or front-rim (if I'm not using my legs enough).
Jeremy focusing on improving his shot is great, but if Doc is trying to turn him into a Jimmer Fredette, then that isn't a good thing. Jimmer might be out of the league in a couple of seasons because he doesn't do what NBA PG's need to do. When that shot goes cold, he is of no value. In contrast, guys like Rondo, Kidd, and Andre Miller have never been very good shooters yet Miller and Kidd are still playing and Rondo is one of the best in the game.
My worry is this whole "shooting mentality" that Doc is trying to instill in Jeremy has unintended consequences. The beauty of Jeremy's game is his intelligence and efficiency. In a way, not being a great shooter helped him develop his total floor game. His ability to drive to the basket is something that not many players have. He's had a NO FEAR mentality going to the rim and that's something he can't lose.
Against the Lakers, Jeremy Lin reverted to the side soccer shot that he had learned from his father.
In shooting, a corkscrew action usually happens when the player is trying to align his shot in the middle of his forehead. That's especially true when the player is not shooting an unguarded standstill shot and is off balance shooting in transition or over a defender.
When Jeremy Lin was using the same shot mechanics that the NBA's greatest scorers used, he scored like a big time NBA player. And when Jeremy Lin uses the same shot mechanics that an amateur girl's basketball team uses, he scores the way an amateur girl's basketball team player would.
You are simply a Lin hater, and you hate Lin's fans too.
Ever since you came on this board, all you have done is flame people.
You started out by saying that Lin couldn't compete in the NBA, and you flamed everybody that said he could. Then when Lin was putting up historic numbers, you were flaming everybody here saying that Lin was not going to be a good point guard. Now you're here flaming people just because they have a difference in opinion from you.
All you have done here is HATE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. Somehow, you feel superior to all of us here by being a flameboy. Your smug attitude reeks of intolerance, arrogance, and DUMBNESS.
I've agreed with your posts quite a few times when you have stooped so low as to NOT flame people here. That makes you just as big a clown as me, TVN.
I have warned you repeatedly not to flame people here. Now I'm gonna KICK YOUR BUTT. Post some more flaming here so I can kick your hater ass MORE.
i agree with you that Lin didn't revert to a shooting form from one game. I am concerned but hopeful that Lin will shoot well in NBA games, even if I don't agree with what I'm seeing.
Lots of flameboys like you have insisted here that I am uncritical of Lin. WRONG. If I see something I don't like, I'll write something. Here I am seeing something I don't like about his shooting.
Since I agree with you that one game doesn't condemn a guy as a bad shooter, you should get your Bozo the Clown outfit to go along with mine. Hey, it was YOUR IDEA.
i agree with you that Lin didn't revert to a shooting form from one game. I am concerned but hopeful that Lin will shoot well in NBA games, even if I don't agree with what I'm seeing.
Lots of flameboys like you have insisted here that I am uncritical of Lin. WRONG. If I see something I don't like, I'll write something. Here I am seeing something I don't like about his shooting.
Since I agree with you that one game doesn't condemn a guy as a bad shooter, you should get your Bozo the Clown outfit to go along with mine. Hey, it was YOUR IDEA.
I can't be on my computer all day like you, so calm down. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you can't do very much over than to attack them and call them "flamers" or "haters" and challenge them to a fight over the internet. How much more childish does it get? If you really are an older man, then I feel sorry for you. You make this board unreadable for many people with your constant hyperbole and victim mentality.
For the record, I've followed Lin since his junior year in HS (not something you could have dome living in PHX) and while at that time I didn't see him playing in the NBA (who did?) I've been a fan since that time. At the same time, he isn't a perfect player and there's nothing wrong with analyzing his game constructively.
100% of this argument here would have been avoided had you not started flaming me then and now.
You have no right to judge me or my behavior or my age. You come here, flame me, and then whine and cry when I go right back at you? Maybe you should look at your own disrespectful behavior first before judging others inadequate.
Your problem is that you don't respect people but then expect them to meekly do nothing as you flame them. Sorry, that is not how the real world works. When you pick on others. expect to be retaliated against.
Had you not flamed me at all here, we wouldn't be fighting here. YOU started this.
It doesn't look like Lin was trying to score baskets or play defense. He never had his hands up to contest jumpshots, and they scored on him twice. He's just taking it easy and tossing it to David Lee for the highlight plays.
Relax, it's not even a real game. Even if the Taiwan players are playing 100% serious, and they probably want to show off in front of him, he's not trying to beat them.
He's probably thinking: this is the host country, let them look good in front of their crowd. I don't want to go off on them or anything.
He could have at least tried harder. i'm pretty sure the people want to see how good he really plays. So they are probably disappointed not to see the jeremy that played with so much passion. They want to see the guy who inspired millions of people around the world.
Manage to get a ticket for this Sunday evengelical event after a long, tedious, a bot of arm twisting and coaxing. I arrived Taipei on 28 for work but it was God blessing and with a little help from an acccquitance that Jeremy will show up for a game of street bb but by the time I reached the court, they are wrapping up the 3rd game and I have to climb on the roof of my company's car to get a glimpse of him; my life is complete (for now).
Why is my post being deleted for some reason? I tried to post the following but got deleted several times.
"I think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing."
I was curious to see how Jeremy made midrange and 3PTs in his 38pts explosion in the Lakers game in order to see what he consistently did right in that game. Also, to see what could be different with his misses in the streetball game. I paid attention mostly if his head and upper body was balanced up to the point of his release or not. So here are my observation for several made shots and analysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iWWFk6TX18
0:16 made 3PT jumpshot.upper body is upright until the point of release
0:56 made 2PT jumpshot. upper body is upright until he landed then leaned back a bit
2:59 2PT running shot but amazingly he controlled his upper body upright throughout the shot
3:32 2PT turnaround jumpshot. Ball is above the head but upper body is upright
5:21 2PT made shot. Ball started from hip but upper body is still upright.
5:48 long 2PT. Ball started in front of face. Upper body is upright until the point of release then leaned and pedaled backwards like a gunner
6:10 made 3PT. Upper body is upright through even after the release. Perfect follow-through like MJ’s last shot
What worked well for Jeremy in this game was how well and balanced he controlled his upper body and head when he went up to shoot up to the point of releasing the ball, even on floaters and running shots. Amazingly he can shoot with the ball starting from the chest, hip or above the head! He clearly has a great talent to aim well no matter what the starting point is. There were a few "picture perfect" follow-through ala MJ's last shot but still he had a tendency to lean backwards after the release and pedal back like a cowboy after gunning his opponents down :) He even waved both arms back a few times like holstering his pistol :)
It's definitely full of 'swag' but I think at times it can affect his balance before he releases the shot. To my naked eyes, I think that might be a factor of what's happening during the streetball game. To verify, I tried to look at games where he had bad FG% but it's hard to find Youtube videos showing his bad shots. I wanted to see if he was not in balance before the point of release.
If anyone can find some Knicks video with some missed shots, please let me know. It might be interesting to analyze if we see the same pattern. @via wang, I know you have a talent to look for Jeremy's videos :) Perhaps you can help?
The following is what I posted on another Lin fan site (http://confessionsofajeremylinaddict.com/):
"Seeing Lin is so good to kids and with kids, an idea keeps on popping into my mind. I will call it “Project come-watch-Jeremy” for now, hoping to get some people together to donate money to sponsor underprivileged kids or kids in hospitals (no matter what ethnic background) to go watch Jeremy’s games in each city he visits. Of course, it will be great if he can spend a few minutes with these kids before or after the games to encourage them" (or just give them a hug or high-five, it should make the kids very happy).
I wonder if anyone has already organized or plans to organize such campaign. If yes, please let me know, I would like to participate. Or should I contact "JLin Foundation"? Is it actively holding similar charity events?
Jeremy was so unimpressive in that pickup games. I'm so pissed at him right now. He needs to DOMINATE these nobodies. He should show them no mercy. Compete with them. Just watch Kobe score 68 points. He shouldn't let a bunch of scrubs school him. You're better than that JEREMY. Come on. I truly hope this tour ends ASAP so he could just focus on the more important things and that is playing great basketball. I hope there would be no more additional destinations/plans. Enough of this marketing and other secondary stuff. He needs to go back to Houston play with his new teammates and develop great chemistry. I heard that the new players are working out together. So Jeremy, come join your teammates and do what you are paid to do.
I'm pretty disappointed in that pickup game. He needs to embarrass his opponents. I don't care if its nba players of a bunch of nobodies.
Me too. To my naive eyes, JLin didn't stand out at all, he missed so many shots, maybe he didn't take it serious at all. When will he be back in USA? I hope he won't disappoint people.
he shouldn't play to please people or be afraid to disappoint people. That's why he admitted he didn't play well with the Warriors because he put too much pressure on himself not to disappoint people.
And he has said on the record that he played well in NY because he has a mindset of playing for God and having fun. So it only makes sense for us to support him no matter what if we want to see him be at his best. Let's be positive and only offer constructive criticism as true fans.
Lin's jumpshot still needs alot of work people. Two things stand out: his jumpstance and gripping the ball. Two of those things have to be consistent at all times. Mostly, i feel the major part of being a good shooter is gripping and feeling the ball. Your fingers/hands have got to feel like a suction cup on the ball with the fingers mostly. It's like a pitcher in baseball feeling the seams of the baseball so he has more control. Jeremy should learn to shoot with moist fingers to feel the ball more. Some people with a good feel and grip are Kobe, Wade, MJ. Everytime they shoot it seems like the ball will go in. When I shoot bad, i go and wet my fingers ( sounds bad, haha)
Stop this kind of posts on Lin haters, etc. No one who posts here hates JLin; we all want JLin to do well. But just because we like JLin does not mean we should not express what we see clearly. On the pick-up game, JLin does not have to play hard, but clearly he was trying to make shots but his shots were off -- that is a concern given the fact that we hear he's been practicing improving his shooting. It seems to me that when he doesn't think too much he shoots better, just like when he made the game winner against Raptors.
Lin's shot needs alot of work. Two things stand out: his jumpstance and the gripping of the ball. It doesn't seem like he has a good feel or grip of the ball. It should feel like a suction cup with your fingers. He should practice more with moist fingers to get a grip and better feel of the ball. It's like a pitcher finding the seams of a baseball to get better control of the ball. I don't see that at all with Lin. It's more like a chucking action. In my opinion form is not all that important but the feel of the ball is. He has no feeling with the ball.
On the poor shooting during the street ball game, note that this was at night AFTER a full day's coaching kids, AFTER his regular strength training, AFTER his regular shooting practice and during the LAST NIGHT of heading up a basketball camp. Do you know how exhausting that probably is? I know that when I have days like that, I miss more shots and my form is not quite at its best. (J/k, I've never had a day like that. I play for about two hours, and then I'm spent.) I think that Doc's stats are a better indicator of how his shooting's doing, not this one night-time game.
(And yes, I'm hoping that the increased stats will show during the real games too.)
add: of course, I don't know for sure that he worked out that day , but he did lead camp for a few days. That's probably exhausting.
Whatever the case, remember that Lin's not stupid. He will notice if he's not shooting as well during these low key games (playing with his brother, David Lee, etc.). Not only is he not stupid, but he's also smart. He's probably watched his videos of his games very carefully and thought through many of the shooting mechanics tips that many of you have suggested.
I honestly think that some of the commenters here are reacting out of fear, probably because Jeremy's your hero and you really don't want him to fail. I feel that too. But remember that this is a strong guy with strong resolve; he puts his trust in God and works with his whole heart. He's smart and is able to make come backs after failures. So, I don't think this video gives us anything to worry about.
(All that said... I would like to see how his left hand is doing... but he also said that he's been working on it much of the summer...)
(My comment keeps erasing... not sure what's going on...)
On the poor shooting during the street ball game, note that this was at night AFTER a full day's coaching kids, and probably AFTER his regular strength training and shooting practice during the day. It was also the end of a long week heading up a camp. I know that when I have days like that, I miss more shots and my form is not quite at its best. (J/k, I've never had a day like that. I play for about two hours, and then I'm spent.) I think that Doc's stats are a better indicator of how his shooting's doing, not this one night-time game.
(And yes, I'm hoping that the increased stats will show during the real games too.)
I guess we're all overanalyzing things too much. Jeremy is in the NBA for a reason. Whatever he's doing is working so far and hopefully he can keep getting better.
I was here before Linsanity, and everyone had advice on how JLin should improve his game. Then the storm hit. I think Jeremy is perfectly able to raise his game.
I realy dont know what problem you guys have. He probably was tired from training. How can you make precise shots when your arms feel like lead? Do you exercise 3-4 hours a day? I exercise 1 hour a day and that already feels like too much.
Does Kobe make every single shot? Whats with the Knicks/Lakers game? Didnt Kobe miss his first nine shots or so? Did MJ make every single shot? How about Melo? Perfect shooter? Humidity level high, lots of people around, and these blinding lights from the corners... I wouldnt care if JLin had missed all his shots.
Jeremy has been an outstanding player his whole life. Shouldnt we have learned something from that? Like to trust in his abilities? We should - this is a fan site. He made it to the NBA. A ball club vowed to give him 25.000.000 US Dollars. Any of you have such a contract?
And his coaches? They are coaching - they make a living out of it. They have done it for a long time. No credit for that? The fact that they are playing probably more than most of us? The fact that Doc Scheppler has been analyzing bball shooting techniques for decades? Its safe to asume that he had been coaching individuals for quite some time - not just girl teams. What about the fact that Jeremy himself went to these people and asked for help? Not good enough?
Last time I checked - nobody here was a professional athlete or coach - let alone NBA player or NBA coach. Yet - people are doubting, people criticise and know it all better. Doc Scheppler refered to these people as "KNOWITALLS". That man hits the spot!
So - to all the keyboard warriors... its ok to talk about JLin and his development. Its ok to analyze and make educated guesses and assumptions. Its also ok to criticise as long as people stick to facts and dont just bash. To say that certain people know nothing? What is your qualification? How can you dare to make such claims swinglinezigzag?
@singlinezigzag: You are contradicting yourself. How can you enjoy following posts here and at the same time claim that most people dont know what they are talking about? Who are you? Youre a NBA player? Havent you noticed that this site is just made of links and peoples comments? If you dont take other people serious - other people wont take you serious as well.
@Admins of the site: I wont lose the feeling that certain people use different nicknames to post here. Can you guys implement a system to check for that?
I said I enjoy following Lin & his story. I did not say I liked the posts. I said I enjoy posting. I do appreciate the people who supply links and videos however.
I should say "some" of the people on here are clueless, not most. Yes I am a scrub at basketball. I have played against a handful of second rate NBA players in my lifetime and gotten killed every time. But I believe I do understand basketball and the Asian American experience In the USA and some of the Ignorant and unknowledgeable comments about basketball and the AA experience here are ridiculous.
Our common ground here is that we all really want Lin to do well and that is commendable. We all believe what we say is more accurate and more true than the next guy.
Lin is a remarkable basketball talent who happens to be Asian. He may look like your brother or your cousin, but make no mistake, this guy is one of a kind. Just cause you look like him doesn't mean you will play like him too without natural basketball talent. Some people need to understand that here.
Well, everybody is on pins and needles of anxiety, waiting for the season to start. I understand the feeling. And there are still 5 weeks to go before preseason starts, although camp and other stuff like that will open even sooner ... so probably a couple of weeks still before real news starts. I myself will be preoccupied with college football until the NBA preseason/season starts, and it might be helpful if others found similar temporary distractions. Just a suggestion!
I appreciate all the commentary here, as long as it isn't aimed at making specific people here look bad.
Most of us here are pretty darned knowledgeable, including my biggest detractors. On a strictly basketball level, I am reading a level of analysis that far exceeds what I am seeing from not just professional basketball media, but professional basketball scouts. After all, those types pretty much all failed to recognize Lin's talent didn't they?
Generally, there is virtually nothing posted here on a basketball level that I don't take seriously. In my decades of following the NBA, I have seen pro personnel making the same arguments we make over here. The only difference is that most of us here are far more aware of the Asian American experience than they are, which is why we follow Jeremy Lin in the first place.
And then there's the hard reality: If you don't like what you read here, LEAVE.
My bad. Thought you wrote "enjoy postings" instead of "enjoy posting".
Anyway - Im still not ok with you claiming that few (or some) know what they talk about. That implies that people are dumb and write nonsense. That is offensive. Im under the impression that this is a fan site. What do you expect? Its not like youre a pro. It doesnt matter if you played against NBA players. I had a teacher who was a european taekwondo champ and I shook a presidents hand. Im still not THE martial artist and Im still not a politician. So - chances are - youre just a bball fan and who is just as knowledgeable as most pepople here.
If people feel the need to have extravagant and long debates -> there should be better places for that. As for this site - I suggest that people make their point and otherwise agree to disagree. Dont make it personal - everyones happy. If you dont like peoples post - check the links, read the articles and ignore the posts or leave.
Besides - you can agree with TVN if you want (no disrespect TVN - just making a point). TVN didnt see JLin as an NBA player - like everyone else as he explained. Now - read all the articles, watch all the videos and you will see that there have always been people who saw JLins potential. If TVN was wrong - just like most people were - doesnt it show that TVN has no superpowers and that most knowitalls dont know that much?
As for JLin looking like my brother or cousin - what is your problem? Why should JLin look like them? Do white folks all look alike? Do all black folks believe that they play like MJ? So - why should people understand what? Again - that is offensive - besides your observation is wrong.
JLin isnt just a great basketball player who happens to be asian. He is a great NBA player despite the fact that he is asian. If you dont understand that - what have you understood? JLin himself has talked about that many times and he embraces that part of his story. Like it or not - so do his asian-american fans and they do it for good reasons.
Asians have been in the US for centuries, enslaved, abused, murdered, they have fought in wars, given their lifes, were sometimes highly decorated (e.g. 442nd infantry) and have contributed to the development of the US. Asian folks have been playing bball for just as long - an yet - there have only been a hand full of asian americans who have pursued an NBA career. Why is that???
Im of chinese descent and Im 1,92 meters tall (6 feet 3 inches) and my cousin is 2,02 meters tall (6 feet 6 inches). Thats really nothing special amongst my people. So - its not the physical attributes. If youre white or black or whatever - think about it! The word racism should come to mind...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCqP0AtwXeE
So - when it comes to JLin - asians will always feel different than black folks who think of Kobe. Only black folks who are a bit older can really understand that (think of the times when bball was still the sports of white folks). Yes - JLins race plays a role and he does represent asian americans. If you cant tolerate a few asians who show their pride - you really have to reexamine your life... whilst not being on the fan site of an asian athlete.
Anyway - there is no need for you to enlighten anyone. If you still feel the need to do so - try something were smarts and empathy is not required. Spread some biblical wisdom on peoples doorsteps... maybe youll find someone who appreciates your help.
Have a thicker skin dude and don't take a message board so seriously. Everybody wants Jlin to succeed but each person just have a different way of expressing it.
Just like there are different types of mothers there are different types of fans. Some mothers are protective types who do not want to see their precious child get criticized whatsoever. Maybe you're that type. Some mothers are tiger moms who may appear overly critical of their child because they feel toughness brings about excellence. It's all good. We're all wired differently.
While it is true that some people have more basketball knowledge than the others, there is no need to be condescending for all us. Not only we will turn off a lot of people, we will stop ourselves learning from others' perspective.
I actually enjoy reading all postings because I get to learn new things every time. Always try to find the common ground with people we disagree with. But focus on ideas, don't attack the person. Avoid name-calling, race-baiting, and putting down others. Present your ideas with solid arguments to help people, not to prove people wrong. If they disagree, that's okay. We can agree to disagree.
I don't claim to be a basketball expert but I enjoy playing and learning about basketball analysis. Most of all, we are all JLin fans, inspired by his story, and we all want him to do well. If we can support him positively no matter when he is up or down, I'm sure Jeremy himself will appreciate it. Let's respect each other more by focusing on ideas, not person. Hopefully we make this wonderful site an even better place.
For the record, the first time I saw Jeremy play was against Mitty in the CCS Final in 2005. He was about 6'0" 150 lbs. soaking wet, so no, I didn't see him as an NBA prospect at that time, and if anyone says they did at that time, then they are lying. I did think he was good enough to play in the PAC-10 the following season when he led his team to the state title. The first time I thought he had a shot at the NBA was after he dismantled Boston College his junior season at Harvard.
@TVN, What's your point? Are you implying that because you saw Jlin in high school that your opinions on Jlin are more accurate than others? I'm from the Bay Area. I have friends that went to Paly and I have a number of friends/co-workers that live in Palo Alto now (their kids go to Paly). I'm sure if I dig enough..I'll be able to find out people that actually know him. Does this make my opinion any more or less important or valuable? Absolutely not. I only heard of Jlin from college, but the first video I saw of him, I immediately thought he could be an NBA caliber talent.
LOL, stop it! It does matter that I saw him in HS because I saw how he progressed through the years.
First video, LOL! What video? You were able to tell someone was an NBA caliber talent through a highlight video? SMH, there's a bunch of amateur players out there with flashy highlight videos that make them look like absolute studs and most of them won't play in the NBA. Stop it....
I wouldn't automatically dismiss a guy just because he looked like he could play based on a single video.
Like jlinisasuperhero, it took me one video and a couple trips down the court for me to see Lin had not only NBA athleticism but NBA skills and reflexes.
I'll bet jlinisasuperhero is like me: a guy who has watched countless videos of NBA aspirants. I personally derive a great deal of fun from seeing whether my opinions of players actually match up to what they do in the NBA. I learned by being WRONG as well as right.
Here is an example of a guy that went wrong for me. Solomon Alabi of FSU is a 7'1" 250 lb center who was drafted in the 2nd round. I though he was going to come into the NBA on the Toronto Raptors, start his career as a low usage backup who provided spot minutes, and occasionally wheeled for a hook shot in the post or a spin move dunk. I though he could play about 10 min a game. I was WRONG - reports indicated that he just couldn't grasp NBA schemes intellectually.
On the other hand, most of the readers here correctly pegged Lin as an NBA talent off video analysis - usually only after a few viewings. It is easy to dismiss their opinions, but the GOT IT RIGHT, didn't they?
@Khuang, I have to admit..you are a far more knowledgeable basketball fan than I am. I was a huge NBA fan in the early to mid 90s and loved to watch the Warriors during the run TMC days as well as the Michael Jordan era. I played some JV basketball in high school, but I got more interested in other sports in my junior and senior year in high school though I'm proud to say I actually could dunk a tennis ball :) and could pretty regularly grab onto the rim (short wingspan so could never fully dunk a basketball). The first time I saw Jlin (I think it was the BC game..don't recall..may have been Uconn), I watched a great athlete finish a two-handed dunk with ease, make great steals, and had a few awesome assists. I really thought he "COULD" be an NBA talent.
I was a big fan of Run TMC too. While I thought that the Warriors made a franchise killing decision by trading Mitch Richmond, I did like Billy Owens even though I was unhappy that they passed up on Dikembe Mutumbo. We all know that Don Nelson probably would have misused Mutombo by having him shoot 3s or something crazy like that, so we probably didn't miss much.
With Jeremy Lin, I saw the same things you did. Yet believe it or not, that's not what stuck out to me. It was Jeremy Lin's reflexes, court instincts, body language, and overall on court personality that got to me.
In all of the big games Lin played in, his non scholarship Harvard team was pitifully overmatched. Many other players, including some of the NBA's biggest stars like Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard, would be grandstanding with their body language like "Woe is me, as mine poor fortune causes me to be thy superhero on this weakass team". But NOOO, Jeremy Lin was as focused and as team oriented the way true leaders are in the face of overwhelming odds. As a result, his team made plays and rallied behind him. I was like "This guy is a WINNER!"
At the NCAA level, I see so many guys with All World athleticism who don't have the court instincts to make NBA plays. Jeremy Lin is one of the rare guys who has both. For example, flipping in that layup over Georgetown's Greg Monroe takes a certain kind of timing that only a NBA guard can do. Plays like these stick out in my mind as examples of NBA talent that translate to the next level.
When I look at Lin's demeanor, he is aware of everything on and off the court. That awareness also translates to the NBA, and it amazes me that NBA scouts will often DEGRADE a player that has that awareness because they think he's "reached his ceiling". That instinctive court awareness is why my 3 favorite players in the 2012 draft were Jeremy Lamb, Jae Crowder, and Andrew Nicholson.
Jeremy Lin struck me as a "can't miss" guard. That said, I have NEVER been able to look at any NCAA guard and say "Oh, that's a future NBA All Star". I can do it a little more with big men, but it's getting harder because big men are becoming less skilled with each passing draft year.
@TVN, You have a way of putting words in people's mouth don't you :). You are constantly trying to put down other people by somehow elevating your own self and creating a self delusion that your opinion matters more than others.. I'm glad this makes you feel better in your own mind. The fact that you've seen Jlin in high school means nothing to me when you make a point so stop trying to use that to make yourself look better. I meet people like you all the time.
When I first watched Lin in college as a sophomore I honestly didn't think he was an NBA prospect. But as soon as his junior and senior year was done I was convinced he was. Even then I just thought he would be a serviceable backup.
I do believe that it would help you better understand if you watched him throughout the years. I would consider him a late bloomer, especially in the growth of him physically and athletically. Also, I believe he had more potential than most to improve with weight training. This meant that the difference between him lifting weights versus not lifting is HUGE.
I say that because I was similar, but obviously on a lower level. I grew from 5'6" to 6' my senior of HS and not on the school team. I began lifting after graduating and made it to my division III college team my second year. The only downside is that this "added athleticism" has to be maintained with continuous training. For others the athleticism may be more natural. The "added athleticism" of Lin was on full display when Febrauary 2012 arrived.
This is not to say that the physicals are the most important. It simply allows him to perform his skills much better. Does this make sense?
I agree that Jeremy's high school career is a relevant discussion point and an interesting one as well. I just don't like when someone puffs up their chest, self aggrandizes, and says look at me "I watched Jlin in high school and now I'm the expert so you all have to agree with what I say".
Hubie Brown once railed against SOME of the early entry candidates, saying that they were hurting their long term professional development by entering the NBA before their bodies were fully developed.
Jeremy Lin's body fully developed by his junior year, and that is when he became a serious NBA prospect. Not coincidentally, that's when a lot of us started following him. I am probably the "latest to the table" because I didn't start following Lin until he made the Dallas summer league 2010 team, and that is because I was actually tracking Lin's teammate Omar Samhan who I still think would be a topflight NBA center!
Generally I only look at a draftee's final season before declaring for the NBA draft. Lin had a superb senior year, especially against big name opponents with his pitifully undermatched team.
I have a special preference for one man team types in college that carry their squads by pulling their less talented teammates along without making them feel inferior or look stupid. Those players, like Lin, typically excel in the NBA.
Jeremy just might have the biggest bullseye on his back next season. He better be ready and I hope one of his people let him know about this to give him some extra motivation in his training.
Rondo is talking some serious trash:
The Celtics All-Star also said he expects to beat Jeremy Lin "pretty badly" when Boston meet Lin's new team, the Houston Rockets, RTHK reports.
Let him bring his A+ game to take on Jeremy Lin. I look forward to Rondo backing up his threat with the game of his life.
Rondo is an old school type of player in that he regards ALL opposing pgs as his mortal enemy. He totally angered Chris Paul to the point Paul wanted to fight him on the court. I LIKE that.
Jeremy Lin will be targeted. I'm OK with other NBA players like Rondo seeking to embarrass him off the court. But if the referees don't call those flagrant fouls on Lin like they would on any other player, then that would be bad for Lin and bad for the NBA.
Here's something I found interesting from SI NBA blogger Zach Lowe, with a Lin tidbit at the end:
That second report measured potential assists by tracking every shot, make or miss, that would have led to an assist under NBA standards. It then divided those assists by shot locations, so that we can see which point guards tend to produce which type of open attempts: shots at the rim, long twos, three-pointers, etc. The idea is to isolate point guards who create a lot of the “best” shots, namely layups and threes, and not long two-pointers — in theory, the worst shot in the game.
Now team context is obviously a huge factor here. A whopping 43 percent of Rajon Rondo’s potential assists led to long twos, the highest number in the sample, but that’s not an indictment of Rondo’s creativity. Any team starting two jump-shooting power forwards (Brandon Bass and Kevin Garnett) will rely to a borderline unhealthy degree on long twos.
But Denver’s numbers here are still jarring. Andre Miller and Lawson ranked among the half-dozen “best” point guards in the league by this standard, with 67 percent of Miller’s potential assists and 56 percent of Lawson’s leading either to threes or shots at the rim. Only Jeremy Lin (68 percent) had a higher percentage of potential assists fall in those areas, a fact I suspect Houston’s geeky brain trust is already aware of.
Once again, Jeremy Lin is at the top of the NBA in some statistical category.
I have no idea if Lin can get the Rockets to finish inside or not. I don't even know if Omer Asik can CATCH the ball, let alone shoot it. I also have no idea what the young Rockets big men are going to do next season.
Coach George Karl in Denver runs a motion system that is heavily reliant on PG play. Even in the halfcourt, Denver is essentially a fast break team that tries to suck defensive big men to the perimeter by threatening the 3 pointer while sending high flying forwards in for backdoor lobs and putbacks.
Brandon Jennings has a wonderful game, especially with that nasty lateral north south dribble that culminates in a stop and pop jumper. All opponents can do is hope that he misses his jumper, which he does a lot of the time. Still, the Bucks weren't going to get far with the limited but valiant Drew Gooden as their best inside player. I wouldn't blame Jennings for the Bucks' offensive woes.
"His BAD shooting day now is better than his BEST shooting day last year."
ReplyDeleteThat is really encouraging to hear. I honestly don't think 50/40/90 is out of the question. He could get there in 2-3 seasons.
1) Jeremy has always been an a efficient 2pt-FG shooter.
2) In one season, he went from too scared to even take a jumper to a being solid jumper shooter.
3) His FT% improved from 76% to 85% from February to March.
For easy viewing:
ReplyDeleteCCTV Interview [English sub]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQCLQEFwgw
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
ReplyDeleteHouston Rockets, I'm told, have formally waived ex-Nets/Mavs/Celts center Sean Williams. Move actually happened Monday
8:39 PM - 28 Aug 12
2 Sept - Evangelical Christian event in Hsin-Drung Gym [hosted by Good TV.]
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jeremylin.goodtv.tv/news.html
#NBARank 267 Jeremy Lamb
ReplyDeletehttp://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8309577/2012-nba-player-rankings-261-280
FWIW [#268 Jared Jeffries]
Note:
DeleteThe JJ mention is for [poster] "anon," who loves him.
Lamb is very underrated like Lin.
DeleteLamb hasn't played a single game in the NBA yet. These rankings don't mean much. It's just something for fans to get riled up about before the season starts.
DeleteIt means nothing but it's nice to prove them wrong like Lin did last year.
DeleteThanks via wong!! am very touched that you posted a special mention of JJ for me. 謝謝! :)
Delete@ anon
Delete:) I thought it might interest you.
[Also, wanting to make it clear it wasn't Nyk-baiting. Now & again a Nyk might be mentioned, bec of circumstances, not to rile Nyk fans up.]
Ugh, forgot. Portland.
DeleteJLin: See you next year
ReplyDelete送別小球員 林書豪：我們明年見
http://udn.com/NEWS/SPORTS/SP7/7326930.shtml
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2012/08/28/352412/Lin-turns.htm
Delete27-28 Aug training camp [younger kids]
29-30 Aug training camp [older kids]
31 Aug private charity event
01 Sep sponsor's event
02 Sep evangelical event
Some light-hearted moments:
DeleteYMCA
[Doc Scheppler, David Lee, Josh Fan]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak3znMBuScM
Training camp Day 3 [Older kids, stricter rules]
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOep4cNaPso
29 Aug Training camp [Older kids]
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psRcNOveCzk
JLin, DLee playing street ball after camp [day 3]
Deletehttp://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9izig9DDy1rtlf2ao1_400.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9izig9DDy1rtlf2ao2_400.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9izig9DDy1rtlf2ao3_400.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9izig9DDy1rtlf2ao4_500.jpg
http://p.twimg.com/A1eO1YLCQAEoWTk.jpg
DeleteJLin steals the ball [late night pickup game, Taiwan]
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJgCU-t-8o8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWUi3r3gNu0
Delete---
Fan Meet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smIMQDB31MQ
Q&A with Marc Berman
ReplyDelete[talks about JLin briefly]
http://2palstalkinsports.tumblr.com/post/30393014476/22-with-2pals-q-a-with-marc-berman
What is the point of this. This clown berman has to take the company line in order to keep his access with the Knicks
DeleteI put up everything JLin, ChuckT.
DeleteBut I can take it down, if you wish..?
[I don't care.]
I just hate reading that garbage from New York media. So its not you sorry if I sounded like a jerk.
Delete@ ChuckT
DeleteYeah, I was going into girl-mode & sniffling at the injustice.
I don't like it too [I think you know that.] :)
A slow news day. I guess I got carried away.
Anyhow, I think I need to take a break. I'm worried I'm turning this site pink, haha.
DeleteNo way via wong keep it going. You do a good job posting the links.
DeleteThere are two bermans. Tv reporter in houston, nyp reporter in new york. Easy to get confused.
DeleteIt's funny to see fat slobs sitting on their fat butts, behind the microphone or typing up deeply biased rants about star athletes .... when the writers themselves were NEVER athletic enough to compete at ANY level. How can they criticize ?
DeleteI love this part the most about Doc's comment
ReplyDelete6:54 "His mindset the whole game was to attack the rim, attack the rim, attack the rim ... but to keep his health, we’ve been working a lot on different finishes that put him in harms way"
Doc and Jeremy knows he can't continue attacking the baskets and not risk his health so I'm so glad they worked hard on it.
I also love the part to emulate the quick release of Kevin Durant and Ray Allen to be a great shooter.
The scary thing about Jeremy's potential is he has hit so many big shots at 23 even when he's not a consistent shooter yet.
He just needs to learn the power of visualization from MJ that tapped his first winning shot for NCAA championship to the confidence of hitting big shots one after another.
Doc said a great shooter like Ray Allen consistently moving without the ball to visualize how he will shoot it once he gets the ball. It's amazing how the body will follow our mind once you can visualize it. Doc is realy a great shooting coach.
He needs to find a balance. Attacking the basket is where he's at his best and made him successful (so far). Should not take away from it.
DeleteMost definitely. Doc also said the key is balance in the video.
DeletePerhaps what might be hard for Jeremy to do at first is to intentionally finish differently after attacking the rim other than making the basket and getting 'and-1' that is his trademark. That would go against his natural instinct and his strength but he needs to do it to be versatile knowing teams will do anything to stop him from going to the basket.
Somehow I got a bad feeling that many teams are willing to inflict punishment and even injury to stop him rather than getting embarrassed. He would need to have Plan B and Plan C depending on how teams plan to stop him.
I still believe his number 1 goal this season is to stay healthy throughout the season. Play smart as a facilitator in the first 3 quarters to help his young teammates grow and put on his cape as a scorer in the the 4th quarter if the team is trailing behind within 15 points.
I wish Lin can hang out with his fellow Bay Area native Gary Payton for a few days once he gets back from Taiwan. Payton's one of the most nastiest and toughest guard defenders of all time. He would be a great mentor for Lin especially learning the "dirty" parts of being a nba guard as I don't think Lin has any guard mentor/coach in Houston as of right now.
DeleteLin already did that early in his career one summer.
DeletePayton refuses to play Lin 1 on 1. Says Lin isn't good enough.
I'll bet that it's because he knows Lin will roast him the way he roasts everybody!
Gary also said Lin played no D. Always wonder why Gary didn't teach Lin some D then. But actually Lin got a very unfair reputation of being a bad defender. Anyway, a great one on one perimeter defender isn't as effective in today's game as in the Payton generation. Supposedly great defenders like AI or Tony Allen or Iman Shumpert still get lit up a lot.
DeleteIn a literal sense, there is no way Lin could play D in Payton if Payton wouldn't grant Lin's request to play 1 on 1.
DeleteGary Payton is a million time All Star and a future Hall of Famer. Such guys have nothing to fear from undrafted no name rookies from Harvard, RIGHT???!
Gary Payton is irrelevant at this time.
DeleteGary Payton was scared to take him under his wing because Lin is Asian and he did not come from a top flight college program. He only help out a favor to lin's agent.
DeleteLook at how much he helped the bust Terrence Williams. Lin does not need a hater like Payton.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9lxrg_gary-payton-prepares-draft-prospect_sport
Guessing this is the article you guys are talking about with Payton?
Deletehttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203918304577241710317187398.html
Doesn't sound too bad at least from this article. I'm sure Payton doesn't follow Lin's career, so he may not have seen Lin's D's. Sounds like they worked more on offense then defense.
According to Payton, they still text mesg each other.
It will be a huge mistake if he stops attacking the basket so much. The best players play near the rim. Getting free throws is a way to get consistent points no matter how you're shooting. It gets people in foul trouble. People in foul trouble have to back off. It also puts enormous pressure on defensive rotations.
DeleteThe idea that people get serious injuries from attacking the basket is ludicrous. Sure, it hurts to get smacked in the face, but that's not where missed games in the NBA come from. People don't tear their ACLs getting hacked at the basket. Allen Iverson never stopped attacking the basket and he was near the top of the NBA in fta/game every year. And he was a lot smaller. Lin's toughness should be celebrated and encouraged because that's the best part of his game, not something to be afraid of.
I don't know what people think, but it's just not that big of a deal to get slammed to the court a few times a game. It doesn't wear you out or make you tired.
Lin is not that small. James Harden is near the top of the NBA in fta/36 because he drives a lot. Should he stop attacking the basket? Should Dwyane Wade? Why on earth is Lin considered a delicate flower compared to others his size?
People have been telling him to not drive so much for years and he hasn't listened so far. I dearly hope it stays that way.
Allen Iverson, James Harden, and Dwayne Wade all have one thing that Jeremy Lin may NEVER have in the NBA:
Deletereferee respect.
Jeremy Lin gets utterly bashed in the paint like no player I have ever seen. If Iverson or Harden or Wade had been hit by three flagrant fouls all at once the way Jason Kidd and the Mavs hit Lin for a nonflagrant call, there likely would have been fines and suspensions.
I absolutely despise the NBA's superstar officiating. A foul is a foul!
I agree Micheal, Nash drives to the hoop and he is never hurt.
DeleteLin got hurt because he was playing 40+ minutes on back to back games.
The referees have historically protected Steve Nash, though the Spurs hip check by Robert Horry was an isolated incident.
DeleteJeremy Lin has taken more flagrant foul hits than any other player I have ever seen in NBA history. Opponents know that the referees won't call "
Lin fairly, and so Lin is constantly getting bashed at a level that a guy like Nash has experienced only a few times in his entire career.
If Jeremy Lin were ref protected like Steve Nash is, Lin would average 8-10 free throw attempts a game. Lin would be the Asian Dantley, living at the line!
I agree with Michael Terry that JLin should not hesitate driving to the basket when the opportunities are there. Of course, if the opponents are laying off him and daring him to shoot makable shots, then he should not hesitate to shoot. JLin should never forego a good opportunity to drive to the basket.
DeleteMichael, the idea that NBA players get serious injuries from aggresively attacking the basket is not without merit. Let's take a sample data of famous NBA players to analyze.
DeleteConsider the career of Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan who all have exceptional athleticism and aggressive style of attacking the basket, which reminds me very much of Jeremy's style of play.
DWade (6'4", 220 lbs) is 30 and in his 9th year in the NBA but his aggressive style of play has been slowly catching up to him. The perennial All-Star shooting guard missed 17 games this season, suffering injuries to his finger and legs, in addition to dealing with soreness in several body parts. Wade's stats took a hit as well, his 22.1 points per game were his lowest since his rookie season, as were the 4.6 assists he put up. Fans forget that he has already dealt with several bad injuries in the course of his career. A sprained shoulder caused him to miss more than 30 games in the 2006-2007 season, and he has also problems with his ankles and knees that have forced him off the court.
DRose (6'3", 190lbs) is just 23 and in his 4th year just suffered a major injury with torn ACL after coming down awkwardly on his left knee in the final minutes of Game 1 victory in the 1st round of playoff. He previously was missing a lot of games due to partial MCL tear interestingly happened when driving to the basket and his shot got blocked by Jeremy Lin. I believe he was not fully recovered enough to play in the playoff.
On the other hand, MJ (6'6", 216lbs) played 15 seasons and his main injury was a broken bone on his foot in the second season when he came down hard on it. He was known as mainly his dunking abilities and not as a shooter/defensive guy but every season he improved on every area that he became a complete player.
What does this tell us? For sure, DWade and DRose are not MJ. We can pinpoint to MJ's genetics and freakish athleticism but what we learned is he learned from his injury and work on all aspects in offense/defense to become a complete player. The greatest player in the NBA is literally a genius (154 IQ) refused to become one-dimensional player and transformed himself to a complete player with no weakness on court. I'm sure many fans would hope Jeremy follows MJ's career path.
There is a lot more aggressive players like Steve Francis, Brandon Roy and many more who suffered career-ending injuries. Anytime NBA players use the knees frequently to change direction and collide with big players driving to the basket, they have more risk to get injuries than players who don't. The law of physics and NBA stats don't lie.
I'm not saying Jeremy should not attack the baskets because we all enjoy it but we also don't want him to be one-dimensional and have a slew of career-ending injuries. He should follow MJ's path to be a complete player.
References:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1213291-amare-stoudemire-dwyane-wade-and-10-biggest-injury-risks-heading-for-next-year/page/9>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duVzNZaGvLA
@Psalm234,
DeleteSorry, but you're really reaching with those examples. None of what you wrote is fact-based, just speculation.
Obviously, we won't know until we see him play again, but my fear is that Doc Sheppler may have a net negative effect on Jeremy. Hopefully not, but I don't like what I'm hearing. Turning Jeremy into a soft jump-shooter is a terrible idea.
@TVN,
DeleteIMHO DWade's and DRose's injury when driving hard to the baskets are facts. You can definitely find reports and videos easily.
And don't worry, I don't think Doc is turning Jeremy to a jump-shooter. The way I understand it, he helped Jeremy to practice a variety of finish when attacking the baskets so it could be a floater, fadeaway jumper which were things that he has done successfully in the past season (i.e. the Lakers game).
I completely agree he should continue to be aggressive driving to the basket which made him successful but with a variety of finish. We don't know what they are but I'm hoping it resembles his 38-point explosion against the Lakers.
I have been slammed down many times going to the rim, and I would never say that it "doesn't wear guys out or make them tired!"
DeleteAnybody who's played pickup hoops, let along organized basketball, knows what it's like to take a severe hit. It knocks your wind out, it turns you upside down, sometimes you black out, and you can hurt afterwards for days or weeks or even months.
Thus I disagree 100% with Michael Terry's assertions that hard fouls cannot injure Lin. I'd go so far to say that Lin would have played more games if he weren't constantly being bashed with hard uncalled contact.
I definitely know how it felt, KHuang. I officially retired from playing pickup hoops with weekend warriors after getting my third-degree torn ACL while fighting for a rebound courtesy of someone ramming his knee sideways. I can feel my knee bent sideways for 45 degree while I was still jumping in the air. Definitely not fun!
DeleteAll of this due to someone getting upset that I was grabbing a lot more rebounds than what he thought I should get. Was racism a factor? Some but I don't dwell on it. A lot more fools than racists playing pick-up hoops.
#1j, I remember reading a fascinating article on how Jordan taught Pippen how to absorb contact and still made the basket. He would prepare to put more momentum to hit the other guy so he wouldn't be thrown off-balance. MJ was simply the best at it.
DeleteRefs helped Jordan out a lot too.
DeleteHe is the only player I have seen who I could predict the whistle blowing BEFORE he got fouled!
Larry Bird wrote in his book that if Jordan was on a typical playground, guys would be pushing and shoving him in a way they never would in the ref assisted NBA.
Hopefully the refs indeed call fouls on guys that hack Jeremy Lin, though it doesn't have to be at a Jordan level or anything like that!
KHuang, I'm sure David Stern sees how much excitement Jeremy generates in China/HK/Taipei and he has an unwritten message to the refs to protect his NBA ambassador in Asia :)
DeleteFrankly, I have always believed that David Stern has a completely hands off approach to the officiating.
DeleteI have always believed that NBA referees have their own internal agendas that have little to do with calling a foul a foul.
Don't people realize that it only brings harm to the NBA in the long run if double-standard officiating is not curtailed?
DeleteIt's really myopic to think NBA belongs to the American Blacks(without any racist intention to bring up color here) only. NBA is a business. The world is a borderless business stage. There is still so much untapped potential in the NBA business and yet...well, hopefully David Stern is visionary enough to be more involved in straighten things up.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGQ [China] - Sep issue
ReplyDeletehttp://p.twimg.com/A1cfhGxCEAAEedT.jpg:large
JLin's interview [Chinese]
http://www.bundpic.com/2012/08/19434.shtml
1:44 DLee's GF: Model friends asked after JLin
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtzBdm1-Nw
@ via wong,
Deletethanks once again for all the juicy news! always look forward to your posts :)
@ anon
Delete:) Glad to be of help.
JLin GQ Interview
[Trans by Kate Su]
Adversity Happens for a Reason
http://andreakate.tumblr.com/post/30459654056/adversity-happens-for-a-reason-jeremy-lin-interview
Davide Lee and his girl friend all seem like nice people. Jeremy is smart to surround himself with good people.
DeletePeople just dont think JLin is handsome - some are more concrete:
Deletehttp://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/i-want-you-linside-me-poster1.jpg
I must say that DLee and his girlfriend make a nice couple. Shes hot and cute :)
Those model women probably wanted JLin for his fame, and his role as a New York Knicks. I wonder if they are still interested after Linsanity moved to Houston.
DeleteSeriously questioning whether that girl is a faithfull groupy? LOL. It doesnt really matter. Having someone go public and show such a sign makes JLin sexy. Thats the only point.
DeleteWe have had that discussion about the media and the preferences people have and how things correlate.
DeleteHad some caucasian gone public a century ago and publicly anounced that he or she finds a black man or woman sexy - that person would have been labeled sick or indecent or whatever. Talking about love? That would have been a taboo. Today - that is not a problem anymore.
When it comes to asian men - things are still developing. In real life - asian men attract and date all sorts of women (or men if you insist) but in the media - thats still a problem (dunno why). Anyway - its nice to see that.
I kinda wish that Lin can break the stereotype and date a non-Asian girl! I have read a lot of comments from Lin's fans especially female fans all expect and insist that Lin must get a girlfriend of Chinese ascent. I understand the concept of usually linking people with similar background. But I hope Lin can break this stereotype that Asian men are unattractive to girls of other races, especially black. How often do you ever see a Chinese man with a black lady together? I hope he date all sorts of girls and prove that Asians can get it done with all races. Lol!
DeleteCara:
DeleteBlack women are the group least likely to date males of other races, and this includes all races, not just Asian. I won't go into the reasons why, but rest assured that it has nothing to do with attractiveness.
And for the record, there would be absolutely nothing wrong for Lin to marry a Chinese woman, and a whole lot of positives would come from it. (The dating thing ... let us just say that I am old-fashioned! We used to call it "courting", as in seeking a future spouse.) As far as using romantic relationships to attack cultural stereotypes ... I say leave that sort of thing to those vapid Hollywood celebrities and reality show types. (Whatever stereotype that could be broken by Lin taking up with Kim Kardashian, for instance, needs to remain in place.) Lin should be free to limit himself to courting and marrying whatever high character woman that he feels comfortable taking to his father and mother, and to his church also.
@Unknown
DeleteFor the very 1st time, we are on the same page, especially your last sentence.
I know Lin has no obligation to break this stereotype but at the same time I feel that he also should not feel obligated to date or marry an Asian (particularly Chinese) girl only. Because I feel there are too many people who are narrow minded about this matter. Too many people automatically assume that Lin must date/marry a Chinese girl only! Actually I suspect that Lin and his family are exactly these same type of traditional people although I couldn't prove it. I understand there is nothing wrong for Lin to date/marry a Chinese girl but I think there is nothing wrong to date/marry another race either. And I don't understand what positives you think marrying the same race that with another race don't have. I kinda feel strong about this matter because I know my parents are exactly the kind of Chinese people who couldn't accept their children marry another race!
Delete#1j:
DeleteDon't get me wrong. I have no problems with interracial marriage whatsoever. And I also think that a lot of positives could come from black women marrying Asian men, but again another story for another forum that has nothing to do with our hoping that Jeremy Lin puts up monster stats while leading the Rockets to the playoffs and beyond.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHmmm I Was unable to post last time, odd...
ReplyDeleteDaryl Morey: "I think our goal for this year ... is we fight for a playoff spot, even though it's one of the most challenging years to do that. The West is strong and if we were to make the playoffs, it means a lot of good things will have happened. Namely Jeremy Lin, Omer Asik or somebody else emerges to become an All-Star. "I think that's a stretch goal, but were not going to go into the year saying we're not going fight. Along the way we'll keep trying to take advantage of every opportunity to make moves that will make us better."
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nba.com/2012/news/08/27/houston-rockets-lottery-team-series/index.html
#NBArank290 Royce White
ReplyDeleteGreg Field@gregfield93
Royce White is the only player in the NBA that creates his own position. No one knows what he is. #NBARank @NBAonESPN
27 Aug 12
Royce White, the second coming of Boris Diaw!!!
DeleteBoris Diaw was a very good player for the suns especially in the 2005-2006 season. I think he had triple doubles. He could play 1 to 5. The only problem for diaw was he didn't stay in tip top shape. I actually like his versatility. Royce is probably the better ballhandler and Diaw is the better shooter. I hope he gets into NBA shape for my Spurs.
DeleteAnyways, some rockets players resemble some players from the 2005-2006 Suns team that was expected to suck but managed 54 wins despite an injured Stoudemire.
Royce White - Boris Diaw
Chandler Parsons - Shawn Marion
Jeremy Lin - Steve Nash
Jeremy Lamb > Raja Bell
Omer Asik ? Kurt Thomas
Note:
Only similarities in skillsets.
Good resemblance and that season Amar'e was injured. I think they will surprise a lot of people. I can see Chandler Parsons and Jeremy Lamb being really good. Kevin Martin will have a better season playing with Lin. Royce White and Terrence Jones will be competing for the PF spot. My only concern are the 5 spot and good backup for Lin. Toney Douglas is not a PG and Asik can't score. Who's available Darko? Yi? Andray Blatche?
DeleteI don't think Kevin Martin will play well with Lin:
Delete"Conventional wisdom is confirmed in several cases. For instance, most would expect that highscoring 2-guards teamed with high-scoring, high turnover point guards would not fit well together (2-
2-7, -4.78); the data supports this intuition, as teams with these players as their top 3 significantly
underperformed their expected win total, given their talent level and coaching ability."
http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Robert-Ayer-Sloan-Sports-Analytics-Conference.pdf
That's nice highfalutin' analysis and all, but stats of those nature ALWAYS neglect the human element.
DeleteThe human element is that Lin's Knick teammates resented his success and often refused to catch his passes or bail him out on double and triple teams.
I have a far more telling stat that applies directly to Kevin Martin. Steve Novak went from many years of earning a minimum salary to a multiuser guaranteed contract averaging about $3 million a year. That's because Lin did what no other NBA PG had done: find Novak on the perimeter and jack Novak's scoring from 3 ppg to 12 ppg.
No, Jeremy Lin will have no trouble assisting Kevin Martin provided that Martin remains on the Rockets.
"multiyear", not multiuser
Deletestupid auto correct is finally shut off!
DeleteD'Antoni's system is friendly to ball dominant PGs as well as catch and shoot players i.e. Novak. Not friendly to ball dominant ISO players i.e. Melo.
Steve Novak is a catch and shoot player. Martin is a ball dominant guard.
Martin struggled in a PG-centric offense.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2011/12/martin-knows-he-must-get-in-the-flow-of-rockets-offense/
Stats are supposed to nullify human element because when human element is involved, we know happens to balanced perspectives which I won't care to elaborate anymore. LOL.
Jeremy Lin is not the pg of the 2011-2012 Rockets.
DeleteAdditionally, Kevin Martin is a fine NBA guard who can thrive under any system. He has been getting it done all his career whether he had a supportive team or not.
I wouldn't be as quick as Mr. Screwup to write off both Lin and Martin as being incapable of playing with another based on stats they have not accumulated with each other.
I am sure Martin and Lin will be just fine. They're getting paid all that money to produce, and they will.
I don't know how well KMart will play with JLin but I agree to never underestimate the power of a motivated player gunning for a new contract.
DeleteKevin Martin can play well off the ball if given a chance. He's a good spot up shooter and can cut to the basket. He was putting up good numbers for Sacramento alongside Mike Bibby, Brad Miller, and Beno Udrih as passers.
DeleteI admit I haven't watched much of Kevin Martin for the last few years. But I don't think Martin ever had a reputation of being a "ball dominant guard".
DeleteMartin can play off the ball, but he also likes to play in isolation. Up until this past season, he was one of the best guards at getting to the line.
DeleteWas curious what other rockets ranked on ESPN. Here's what's available now:
ReplyDelete267 Jeremy Lamb
280 Shaun Livingston
290 Royce White
311 Terrence Jones
318 Marcus Morris
321 Toney Douglas
324 Donatas Motiejunas
349 Gary Forbes
367 Jon Brockman
388 JaJuan Johnson
471 Courtney Fortson
428 Sean Williams(Waived)
484 Greg Smith
495 Diamon Simpson
361 Yi Jianlian (FYI)
321 Toney Douglas? What is the basis? He was terrible all year long and he didn't play a lot late in the season.
DeleteI don't think these high rankings are suppose to be good players.
DeleteJeremy was #467 on Golden State's ranking for last year.
David Lee was #54 last year.
I would guess the top 100 are the potential starters?
Meant to paste the link for golden state:
Deletehttp://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank-gsw-2011/nba-player-rankings-golden-state-warriors
I still think Toney Douglas has game.
DeleteHe is an aggressive defensive player who does best with what I call an "Allen Iverson" offense.
Iverson would isolate himself at the top of the three point line facing the basket straight down. The other four players would run a four man flex offense designed to position themselves ready for bailout passes. Iverson would then attack, as no one in the NBA could stop him off the dribble. Essentially it's a four corners offense with the ball starting at the top instead of in the middle.
I think of Toney Douglas as a poor man's Allen Iverson. He shoots from outside about as effectively as Iverson did, but Douglas lacks the blazing footspeed and gymnast like body control that allowed Iverson to blow past anyone and finish in the paint.
I can see Houston running an "Iverson" set with Toney Douglas while Jeremy Lin plays off the ball.
completely disagree with the comparison.
DeleteHow enlightening.
DeleteCare to explain?
Douglas is an aggressive on-ball defensive player while Iverson picked up steals playing the passing lanes. We may be underrating Iverson's defense here but he wasn't known to be a ball hawk.
DeleteI don't even know where to start comparing them offensively. Simply put, Iverson is one of the best, if not the best of ALL TIME, little men at scoring the basketball. Toney Douglas? Not so much.
I just don't think you'd agree that I would be a poor man's Michael Jordan who's 4" shorter, slower, can't shoot, dribble, pass and jump as well as he did.
Excellent analysis, unknown.
Deletei just happen to be a guy that sees similarities bwtween players.
iverson is a unique Hall of Fame player. on that, i totally agree.
I don't get why people hate Douglas a backup PG. I actually think he will be fine here in Houston. He struggled in NY because they expected him to be the main ball handler and creator. But here, he will have capable ballhandlers and playmakers like Lamb, Royce White, Parsons in the 2nd unit alongside him so he doesn't really have to do the playmaking but can focus on being a defender and a shooter. Also I like Douglas' attitude. He doesn't have much of an ego unlike someone like Machado. I think Douglas knows he needs a good season to remain in the nba.
DeleteI see Douglas as Houston's Gary Neal. Undersized SG who gives you some instant offense off the bench. I think he could have a comeback year playing his natural role.
DeleteTrue, his lack of playmaking skills could be mitigated by playing alongside a point-forward like Royce White. But I don't think Royce will be ready to play heavy minutes until midseason. Unless he polishes his offensive game, developing some post moves or a mid-range jumper, teams will just play him to pass.
White might benefit from a stint in D-League. And Machado even more so.
"I see Douglas as Houston's Gary Neal."
DeleteWait, don't the Rockets already have a player named Gary Neal on their roster ? They traded away Kyle Lowry to Toronto for Gary Neal and a 1st Round pick.
So if Tony Douglas is like Gary Neal ... then who does GM Morley decide to keep.
I hope the Rockets make some trades pretty soon. I'd hate to see them cutting people left and right to trim down the roster. They already amnestied Scola and waived both Sean Williams and Josh Harrelson, giving up on 3 big men and getting absolutely nothing in return is a waste of talent.
At least trade some guys for late 1st round or 2nd round draft picks.
They have Gary FORBES. Not Gary Neal (he's on the Spurs). I think you might have confused them because of a recent rumor that the Rockets were looking to trade for Gary Neal.
DeleteNice vid of Toney Douglas from 2010 (against the Bulls)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fchR8LH5MgQ
He runs the PnR with Turiaf @ 1:10, leading to a sweet wrap-around pass and dunk. Hmm, maybe Douglas CAN play backup PG (even without a point-forward).
@Cara:
DeleteToney Douglas isn't a PG or even a combo guard. He is a SG. Here is Douglas' backstory. He was a SG in high school and for his first year in college. After his first year in college, he entered the NBA draft. The NBA guys told him that he was not going to get drafted because of his height, and that he needed to switch to PG if he wanted to get drafted. So, he withdrew from the draft and asked his college coach to move him to PG. The coach refused, because Douglas is a SG and can't play PG. Douglas only wanted the college to help him get to the NBA, but the college coach was concerned with winning college games. So Douglas found another college, one that was rebuilding and willing to let him play PG just to get an athlete of his caliber into their program, but it didn't work. Finally in his last year at that program, they gave up on having Douglas play the PG role in the offense and just let him be their scorer. At no point in college did Douglas ever average 3 assist per game, but he led his college team in scoring 3 years out of 4. But it worked. Even though he was actually a SG who wasn't that good at handling the ball and was horrible at running the offense and passing, because his second college was willing to call him a PG instead of a SG, he was a 1st round draft pick and has made his $3 million dollars.
Good for him financially and for his getting to work the college athletics system in order to realize his dream of getting to the NBA. But the Knicks have already wasted a 2nd round draft pick and $3 million that they gave to the Lakers for his rights, several years letting the guy take up space on the bench and in their developmental programs, and his salary trying to turn a SG into a point guard.
Hopefully the Knicks will play Douglas as a backup SG (not combo guard but SG only) and go out and get a real backup PG. Maybe they can come up with some system where Douglas can guard the other team's PG on defense, but on offense he comes off the ball, and the SF or SG handles the ball, runs the offense and creates opportunities for everybody else. That is the only way that Douglas will ever be effective for the Rockets or anybody else.
Unknown:
DeleteI don't feel that Douglas is that bad. I followed NYK quite a lot last season. I heard some fans said Douglas played with a hurt shoulder all season and that affected his shooting a lot. If he could return to his shooting as in his rookie season, he's serviceable.
You want a backup pg? My SPURS can give you Gary Neal , Matt Bonner, Blair and maybe even some draft Picks for D-Mo. I really feel he's too talented. I feel he's the missing piece for my SPURS.
DeleteGary Neal is a better backup pg than Livingston and Douglas. He's also a terrific shooter and can sometimes play as a sg. You could trade Blair and Bonner for other pieces or even some high draft picks. The rockets have too many PF so giving one away won't hurt them. Hopefully, the Spurs can pry D-Mo from the rockets. That would make them title favorites (BOOK IT).
Sorry if I've expressed some of my personal preferences. Anyways, Neal is a good pickup for the rockets.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@nephelauxetic,
DeleteWell, that's not happening. There isn't a single player (not even Parker) on the Spurs that Morey would trade D-Mo for. Don't hold your breath.
Who knows? It doesn't hurt to try
DeleteHi all - I'm new to writing on this site but have been following and reading for quite a while... love this site!! Anyway, I've been hunting around for other NBA rankings to see where JLin is currently placed. And not sure how good this list is from cbssports.com
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings?&print_rows=9999
This has Jlin ranked as the # 56 in the point guard list and #226 overall!!! Was looking to see if anyone had seen this list before and know how they calculate the ranking. I'm just so surprised as to who they have above Lin in the PG.
The site states "The rankings are a total player-rating system based on various offensive and defensive statistics. Players increase their scores with every contribution they make to the game."
I mean they have Shumpert ahead of Lin in the PG list @ #35, really? Even Shaun Livingston is ahead of Line at #46 with Raymond Felton at # 18 (WHAT?!?)
Anyway, I couldn't figure it out just by looking at the stats that was on the listing... Anyone heard of this list and know anything about it?
I think cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings is using an algorithm factoring in last 30 days of regular season. Notice D.Rose ranked 30th for PGs. That's barely making the starting rotation. The #56th PG should be on the bench.
DeleteCircling back to the ESPN rankings, I think Royce White has lots of upside, but the other 3 Rockets' rookies are probably ahead of White on the learning curve. I expect White to struggle in his first year, and perhaps finding his game near the end of the season, or next year. He will definitely struggle on the road. I think T.Jones should be ranked highest of the 4 rookies, followed by Lamb, Donatas, then White. Of course, I'm basing a lot of this from summer league action.
As for JLin's backup, I think they will need to throw in a shooting guard, and play 3 guards w/ R.White at the 4. I do not see Livingston or T.Douglas getting regular minutes because then it becomes an 11 man rotation every game.
I still don't know about Terrence Jones.
DeleteMy perception of him is that he's not bulky enough to play power forward despite having a good solid skill set. For some reason, Terrence Jones reminds me a bit of Hakim Warrick.
The other thing I am noticing about NBA teams is that they are steadily digging deeper into their roster to play more guys. Compared to the game decades ago, today's NBA game is faster paced in halfcourt sets but not necessarily more effective. This results in teams having to use more players, particularly when injury strikes.
Regarding today's game being less effective, lack of traditional big men, lack of traditional post up game contribute to it. As we all know, the closer range the shot is, the higher the % is. But nowadays, most big men play like guards.
Delete@Cara:
DeleteAnd most guards play like forwards. Or to be truthful, like extremely athletic but unskilled forwards with no knowledge of or interest in how the game should be played. The only way to clean up the NBA would be to actually start calling fouls on traveling, carrying and double-dribble type violations, as well as on offensive fouls. Some say eliminating the three point shot, or at least moving the 3 point line back, would help. That would force players to go back to traditional post-ups, true point guards, actual passing, good shot selection etc.
It is David Stern's fault that the NBA developed like this. He should have used officiating as a way to keep the game from devolving when the trouble signs first started in the mid-1990s. He also should have started a true minor league (using the already in-existence CBA as a foundation) the instant that kids started bypassing college, so that players could have learned the actual game in the minor league system before they were allowed to play in the majors (the same that MLB and the NHL do). It is incredible how Stern gets to keep his job - he has served far longer than any other major sports commissioner in history - despite presiding over an absolute mess.
#1j:
DeleteThe brand grew because of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, and other athletes who could actually play, as well as marketing efforts from outside companies that Stern had nothing to do with (especially Nike). And when Jordan, Barkley and company retired, the NBA popularity dropped like a stone. They lost their NBC contract and the games for a time were only available on cable. Now some of their games are shown on network TV, but only because of the relationship between ESPN and ABC. (If the same company didn't own ESPN and ABC, their games wouldn't be on ABC.) Some of their franchises have gone out of business, others have had to move to places like Oklahoma City, Brooklyn and Memphis, and one team has no owner - it is owned by the other franchises collectively - because they can't find a buyer. And there is a rumor that Sacramento is going to move to Virginia.
Sorry. Stern is a disaster.
I have to agree with this Stern is a disaster. But His job however is a lot harder than what people think it is. He has a black league with no white superstars. This fact makes it harder to market to the 70% white population that exists in the U.S
DeleteThe real people that saved the nba was Magic and more so Bird. For the 1st time in years white people had team and player to root for. This was the true apex for the nba. when bird and magic left Jordan and his hyper marketing machine keep the nba popular for the next 5 years 1992-1997 when Jordan retired the NBA popularity dropped like a stone.
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/why-nba-nbc-doesnt-exist-anymore-too-black-896430/
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-02-18/sports/30078659_1_lebron-james-number-of-foreign-born-players-nba
The only saving grace for the nba is the fact that Basketball is more of a global game than football, hockey or even baseball is.
Wow, excellent posts Unlnown. Your posts on this thread are extraordinary! My compliments!
DeleteTo add to what you have already written, I also propose eliminating the 3 second lane violation, the 5 second holding rule, the 5 (or is it 8?) second backcourt violation, and all other "time" violations that have no place in playground basketball. Superstars routinely abuse these rules, and not necessarily because refs prefer them.
Another thing I would do is put a 5 second shot clock on free throws that starts as soon as the ref hands the ball to a player.
Basically, any rule change that takes the referees out of the game and makes the NBA more like pickup basketball is good with me.
KHuang Re Terrence Jones.
DeleteThere is no way that Terrence Jones. is like Hakim Warrick. Hakim Warrick was a great athlete with zero basketball skills.
Terrence Jones can shoot, play good d and has good handles for a big man. I see more Lamar odom than Hakim Warrick.
Jeremy Lin and David Lee played street ball in Taiwan. A nice steal by Jeremy.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.isportstimes.com/articles/3182/20120829/jeremy-lin-david-lee-who-shared-new.htm
Here are more video of Jeremy playing street ball in Taiwan
ReplyDeletehttp://kenlu.net/2012/08/jeremy-lin-8-29-taipei-street-ball/zh-tw/
JLin didn't shoot very well. His shooting form didn't look that smooth for some reason. Also, didn't drive to his left at all. He should use these practices to drive to his left or post up, etc. I know he wasn't even playing hard but . . .
DeleteHe better shoot well and drive to his left more efficiently. Hopefully, he can end this tour and just focus on Basketball. I want him to practice 10+ hours per day instead of 3 -4 hours per day. No More marketing. You could increase your marketability through high performance on the court. So, I want some action jeremy. Please after this, NO MORE. Do it again next offseason. Save the whole month of September and October for training and getting better. He needs to average at least 18 and 8. I'm going to be disappointed if he does average lower than those numbers.
DeleteI do agree that the best marketing is doing well on court rather than off court. I think he should just go to one country every year rather than doing the entire Asia tour.
DeleteI think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing.
DeleteI think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing.
DeleteUncomfortable shot mechanics are exactly what I have been afraid of with Jeremy Lin and all those trainers trying to "fix him".
DeleteIt could be that Lin is practicing and thus thinking TOO MUCH. Instead of trying to be such a picture shooter, he should just put the ball in the hole ising his natural body mechanics.
The thing is that even with his side soccer throw shot, Jeremy Lin STILL is a "picture shooter" if you compare him to historically great shooters like John Stockton, Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan, and Larry Bird among others.
When Lin goes up with his side shot, his right arm is right under the ball the way Red Auerbach and Larry Bird describe in their legendary "Winning Basketball" video. His follow through is smooth and he puts his legs into the shot. It is actually a "textbook" release as taught by one of the greatest shooters and one of the greatest coaches of all time.
When Lin puts the ball in the middle of his forehead to shoot, his right elbow is actually canted out the the side of the ball. Such a shot might work for a GIRL with girl elbows that naturally shoot out to the sides, but it won't work for a man whose elbows go straight.
Essentially Lin is in danger of shooting an Adolph Rupp type two handed set shot aimed from the middle of his forehead, with the accompanying low field goal percentage that was acceptable in Rupp's day but not in today's NBA!
His poor shooting against a bunch of weekend BB players who were not putting any pressure on him was not impressive and causes me some concern.
DeleteFor what it's worth, I do not believe in the "picture perfect" anything. If there was such a thing that anyone could aspire to with just a lot of practice, then all NBA players should be perfect shooters. The key is is finding the "perfect form" for one's body and recognizing unique tendencies and then improving on them. I figure since JLin is a good FT shooter, he should be able to shoot very well.
DeleteThere are two big differences I see in players of the post Jordan era vs. players of the pre Jordan era.
DeleteThe biggest difference is that today players get a lot more coaching than they used to, and not necessarily for the better.
In the old days, players would spend their offseasons UNSUPERVISED and would experiment with their games against mainly rec league talent. They would come back the following season with new moves while not altering the fundamental things that got them into the NBA to begin with.
Today players are surrounded by armies of trainers, most of whom have never played or even coached at the professional level. These trainers excel at getting their players to win shooting contests in empty gyms and upping their athletic agility and strength numbers. But too often the player ends up trying to apply techniques that have long been proven ineffective at the NBA level.
I think it was ESPN that wrote an article about how incoming Pistons rookie Andre Drummond was getting all this crazy coaching that was messing with his ability to make shots. The article also cited Andris Biedrins and even John Wall I think.
I won't say that Coach Diepenbrock is teaching Jeremy Lin the wrong stuff or that he shouldn't be with Sparta. But Jeremy Lin has to remember WHO HE IS and stick to those 80s style fundamentals that he learned from his father and brothers. After all, it was Lin's applications of those fundamentals that got him to the NBA and kept him there.
If I could give a word of advice to Jeremy Lin through his family or friends, it would be to think about REVERTING to that good ol' shot that guys like Adrian Dantley (led the NBA in scoring at the same height as Lin with 30+ ppg) and John Stockton (shorter than Lin but extremely deadly as a side throwing shooter) successfully used in the past.
I am terrified that Jeremy Lin will start the 2012-2013 season with an extended shooting slump caused by poor mechanics taught by well meaning (and WELL PAID) trainers who have never set foot on an NBA basketball court.
I don't think you need to have "set foot on an NBA basketball court" to be able to help am NBA player. I know a few very good trainers who never played or coached in the NBA.
DeleteJeremy biggest flaw, IMO, with his shooting is an easily correctable one. The way he holds the ball leads him to be an inconsistent shooter. He grips the ball too close to his palms. Ideally, the "textbook" way to hold it while shooting is mainly through your fingers and your upper palm. You want your hands to be wide and be able to fit two fingers in between your palm and the basketball. Google a picture of Jeremy shooting and you should notice that his hands are too narrow and he controls it with his palm.
He became decent through tons of practice, but he would have become a better shooter sooner if his fundamentals and technique were better.
I'm sure Doc Scheppler is knowledgeable about basketball. His Pinewood Girls teams have been very successful, but to portray him as some kind of genius is a little funny to me.
DeleteThe way he's "coaching" Jeremy is something I'd say to a shooting type. It's like something Monta Ellis probably hears from his trainers. "Oh, just keep bombing away no matter how much you miss..." Obviously, I'm kind of joking, but as a PG, the last thing you want to do is shoot your team out of the game if you're not hitting your shot. And you've got to constantly attack to hoop, not only so you can get fouled and go to the line for easy points and a chance to find a rhythm, but to create for your teammates, which is the primary duty of a PG.
Anyway, I think there's a bit of overreaction over what he did in a pick-up game with a bunch of weekenders. It's not really that big a deal. Jeremy's never been a "great" shooter, and that hasn't prevented him from being a really good player. Sorry, but shooting a good percentage on unguarded shots in practice doesn't make anyone great. I'm sure Russell Westbrook makes most of his shots in practice and he's no great shooter.
DeleteIt could just be a bad night of shooting during practice that carried over to the game.
DeleteBut IMHO there was one major thing he did consistently that didn't look right to me in the video.
He kept pushing back his upper body right before he released the ball as if he tried to do fadeaway jumpers all the time. It's hard to be consistent in shooting the ball if our head and upper body keep moving around at the point of release. He ended up short in one shot, then pushed the ball long to compensate, etc.
Check out these 3 shots and let me know if you agree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWUi3r3gNu0&feature=player_embedded
0:13 Made 2PT stop-and-shoot but upper body is falling back after release
0:48 Missed 3PT short. Looked good up to release but kicked legs forward after release?
3:22 Missed 3 PT a bit long. A bit of a push. Still pushed back the upper body after release.
In comparison, watch back-to-back 3 PTs at 4:26 & 5:03 for a guy whose upper body was still balanced at the point of release.
Now I want to compare how his shooting form looked during his 38-pt game against the Lakers. To me, his shots during that game looked "right" and feathery smooth feeling to it so he did something consistently right in that game.
His feet aren't landing in the same spot when he lands. He isn't going straight up. You're right Psalm, he's sort of leaning back. It's a little odd to me that he such wide variation in his misses. It's right or left or long or short. I was (and am) a very good shooter and my misses are usually rim-outs or short or front-rim (if I'm not using my legs enough).
DeleteDoc needs to go back into the Lab.
Jeremy focusing on improving his shot is great, but if Doc is trying to turn him into a Jimmer Fredette, then that isn't a good thing. Jimmer might be out of the league in a couple of seasons because he doesn't do what NBA PG's need to do. When that shot goes cold, he is of no value. In contrast, guys like Rondo, Kidd, and Andre Miller have never been very good shooters yet Miller and Kidd are still playing and Rondo is one of the best in the game.
DeleteMy worry is this whole "shooting mentality" that Doc is trying to instill in Jeremy has unintended consequences. The beauty of Jeremy's game is his intelligence and efficiency. In a way, not being a great shooter helped him develop his total floor game. His ability to drive to the basket is something that not many players have. He's had a NO FEAR mentality going to the rim and that's something he can't lose.
Against the Lakers, Jeremy Lin reverted to the side soccer shot that he had learned from his father.
DeleteIn shooting, a corkscrew action usually happens when the player is trying to align his shot in the middle of his forehead. That's especially true when the player is not shooting an unguarded standstill shot and is off balance shooting in transition or over a defender.
When Jeremy Lin was using the same shot mechanics that the NBA's greatest scorers used, he scored like a big time NBA player. And when Jeremy Lin uses the same shot mechanics that an amateur girl's basketball team uses, he scores the way an amateur girl's basketball team player would.
@Huang,
DeleteLin didn't revert to a shooting form for one game. C'mon... And I thought your status as the clowniest poster on this blog couldn't get any worse.
You are simply a Lin hater, and you hate Lin's fans too.
DeleteEver since you came on this board, all you have done is flame people.
You started out by saying that Lin couldn't compete in the NBA, and you flamed everybody that said he could. Then when Lin was putting up historic numbers, you were flaming everybody here saying that Lin was not going to be a good point guard. Now you're here flaming people just because they have a difference in opinion from you.
All you have done here is HATE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. Somehow, you feel superior to all of us here by being a flameboy. Your smug attitude reeks of intolerance, arrogance, and DUMBNESS.
I've agreed with your posts quite a few times when you have stooped so low as to NOT flame people here. That makes you just as big a clown as me, TVN.
I have warned you repeatedly not to flame people here. Now I'm gonna KICK YOUR BUTT. Post some more flaming here so I can kick your hater ass MORE.
Where are you, TVN?
Deletei agree with you that Lin didn't revert to a shooting form from one game. I am concerned but hopeful that Lin will shoot well in NBA games, even if I don't agree with what I'm seeing.
Lots of flameboys like you have insisted here that I am uncritical of Lin. WRONG. If I see something I don't like, I'll write something. Here I am seeing something I don't like about his shooting.
Since I agree with you that one game doesn't condemn a guy as a bad shooter, you should get your Bozo the Clown outfit to go along with mine. Hey, it was YOUR IDEA.
Where are you, TVN?
Deletei agree with you that Lin didn't revert to a shooting form from one game. I am concerned but hopeful that Lin will shoot well in NBA games, even if I don't agree with what I'm seeing.
Lots of flameboys like you have insisted here that I am uncritical of Lin. WRONG. If I see something I don't like, I'll write something. Here I am seeing something I don't like about his shooting.
Since I agree with you that one game doesn't condemn a guy as a bad shooter, you should get your Bozo the Clown outfit to go along with mine. Hey, it was YOUR IDEA.
Huh?
DeleteWhat is with this blog double posting me when I only posted once?
@KHuang,
DeleteI can't be on my computer all day like you, so calm down. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you can't do very much over than to attack them and call them "flamers" or "haters" and challenge them to a fight over the internet. How much more childish does it get? If you really are an older man, then I feel sorry for you. You make this board unreadable for many people with your constant hyperbole and victim mentality.
For the record, I've followed Lin since his junior year in HS (not something you could have dome living in PHX) and while at that time I didn't see him playing in the NBA (who did?) I've been a fan since that time. At the same time, he isn't a perfect player and there's nothing wrong with analyzing his game constructively.
Don't lecture me about propriety, TVN.
Delete100% of this argument here would have been avoided had you not started flaming me then and now.
You have no right to judge me or my behavior or my age. You come here, flame me, and then whine and cry when I go right back at you? Maybe you should look at your own disrespectful behavior first before judging others inadequate.
Your problem is that you don't respect people but then expect them to meekly do nothing as you flame them. Sorry, that is not how the real world works. When you pick on others. expect to be retaliated against.
Had you not flamed me at all here, we wouldn't be fighting here. YOU started this.
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DeleteFrankly I'm more worried about his handles and turnovers than his shooting.
DeleteWhat the heck happened at 0:05 of this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iWY86WgWeg&feature=player_embedded
Lin made that scrub look like Mario Chalmers.
He did a crossover right in front of his man and got his pocket picked. Old bad habits die hard I guess.
It doesn't look like Lin was trying to score baskets or play defense. He never had his hands up to contest jumpshots, and they scored on him twice. He's just taking it easy and tossing it to David Lee for the highlight plays.
DeleteRelax, it's not even a real game. Even if the Taiwan players are playing 100% serious, and they probably want to show off in front of him, he's not trying to beat them.
He's probably thinking: this is the host country, let them look good in front of their crowd. I don't want to go off on them or anything.
He could have at least tried harder. i'm pretty sure the people want to see how good he really plays. So they are probably disappointed not to see the jeremy that played with so much passion. They want to see the guy who inspired millions of people around the world.
DeleteManage to get a ticket for this Sunday evengelical event after a long, tedious, a bot of arm twisting and coaxing. I arrived Taipei on 28 for work but it was God blessing and with a little help from an acccquitance that Jeremy will show up for a game of street bb but by the time I reached the court, they are wrapping up the 3rd game and I have to climb on the roof of my company's car to get a glimpse of him; my life is complete (for now).
ReplyDeleteToo much of a fangirl you are, Michelle! Lol. Nothing wrong though. Haha.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWhy is my post being deleted for some reason? I tried to post the following but got deleted several times.
ReplyDelete"I think JLin should show up at just one Asian country in one year and not do the entire Asia tour thing which must be very tiring. I definitely agree that doing well on the basketball court rather than off-court is the best marketing."
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ReplyDeleteI was curious to see how Jeremy made midrange and 3PTs in his 38pts explosion in the Lakers game in order to see what he consistently did right in that game. Also, to see what could be different with his misses in the streetball game. I paid attention mostly if his head and upper body was balanced up to the point of his release or not. So here are my observation for several made shots and analysis.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iWWFk6TX18
0:16 made 3PT jumpshot.upper body is upright until the point of release
0:56 made 2PT jumpshot. upper body is upright until he landed then leaned back a bit
2:59 2PT running shot but amazingly he controlled his upper body upright throughout the shot
3:32 2PT turnaround jumpshot. Ball is above the head but upper body is upright
5:21 2PT made shot. Ball started from hip but upper body is still upright.
5:48 long 2PT. Ball started in front of face. Upper body is upright until the point of release then leaned and pedaled backwards like a gunner
6:10 made 3PT. Upper body is upright through even after the release. Perfect follow-through like MJ’s last shot
What worked well for Jeremy in this game was how well and balanced he controlled his upper body and head when he went up to shoot up to the point of releasing the ball, even on floaters and running shots. Amazingly he can shoot with the ball starting from the chest, hip or above the head! He clearly has a great talent to aim well no matter what the starting point is. There were a few "picture perfect" follow-through ala MJ's last shot but still he had a tendency to lean backwards after the release and pedal back like a cowboy after gunning his opponents down :) He even waved both arms back a few times like holstering his pistol :)
It's definitely full of 'swag' but I think at times it can affect his balance before he releases the shot. To my naked eyes, I think that might be a factor of what's happening during the streetball game. To verify, I tried to look at games where he had bad FG% but it's hard to find Youtube videos showing his bad shots. I wanted to see if he was not in balance before the point of release.
If anyone can find some Knicks video with some missed shots, please let me know. It might be interesting to analyze if we see the same pattern. @via wang, I know you have a talent to look for Jeremy's videos :) Perhaps you can help?
The following is what I posted on another Lin fan site (http://confessionsofajeremylinaddict.com/):
ReplyDelete"Seeing Lin is so good to kids and with kids, an idea keeps on popping into my mind. I will call it “Project come-watch-Jeremy” for now, hoping to get some people together to donate money to sponsor underprivileged kids or kids in hospitals (no matter what ethnic background) to go watch Jeremy’s games in each city he visits.
Of course, it will be great if he can spend a few minutes with these kids before or after the games to encourage them" (or just give them a hug or high-five, it should make the kids very happy).
I wonder if anyone has already organized or plans to organize such campaign. If yes, please let me know, I would like to participate. Or should I contact "JLin Foundation"? Is it actively holding similar charity events?
Jeremy was so unimpressive in that pickup games. I'm so pissed at him right now. He needs to DOMINATE these nobodies. He should show them no mercy. Compete with them. Just watch Kobe score 68 points. He shouldn't let a bunch of scrubs school him. You're better than that JEREMY. Come on. I truly hope this tour ends ASAP so he could just focus on the more important things and that is playing great basketball. I hope there would be no more additional destinations/plans. Enough of this marketing and other secondary stuff. He needs to go back to Houston play with his new teammates and develop great chemistry. I heard that the new players are working out together. So Jeremy, come join your teammates and do what you are paid to do.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty disappointed in that pickup game. He needs to embarrass his opponents. I don't care if its nba players of a bunch of nobodies.
Me too. To my naive eyes, JLin didn't stand out at all, he missed so many shots, maybe he didn't take it serious at all. When will he be back in USA? I hope he won't disappoint people.
Deletehe shouldn't play to please people or be afraid to disappoint people. That's why he admitted he didn't play well with the Warriors because he put too much pressure on himself not to disappoint people.
DeleteAnd he has said on the record that he played well in NY because he has a mindset of playing for God and having fun. So it only makes sense for us to support him no matter what if we want to see him be at his best. Let's be positive and only offer constructive criticism as true fans.
He shouldn't play for anyone but himself. So for his own benefit, he should have at least played harder and be more competitive.
DeleteLin's jumpshot still needs alot of work people. Two things stand out: his jumpstance and gripping the ball. Two of those things have to be consistent at all times. Mostly, i feel the major part of being a good shooter is gripping and feeling the ball. Your fingers/hands have got to feel like a suction cup on the ball with the fingers mostly. It's like a pitcher in baseball feeling the seams of the baseball so he has more control. Jeremy should learn to shoot with moist fingers to feel the ball more. Some people with a good feel and grip are Kobe, Wade, MJ. Everytime they shoot it seems like the ball will go in. When I shoot bad, i go and wet my fingers ( sounds bad, haha)
ReplyDeleteLol. Lin haters come out in full force due to an uncompetitive pickup game. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI'm actually mad because he didn't destroy his opponents.
DeleteLol. Why should he destroy the opponents? It's FOR FUN. It would be pretty boring if Lin scored every basket and held the opponents to zero pts.
DeleteHe needs to develop Kobe's killer instinct. He needs to prove he's the best!!!!
DeleteYou're pure trolling now. He did not and could not prove anything in a street ball game.
DeleteStop this kind of posts on Lin haters, etc. No one who posts here hates JLin; we all want JLin to do well. But just because we like JLin does not mean we should not express what we see clearly. On the pick-up game, JLin does not have to play hard, but clearly he was trying to make shots but his shots were off -- that is a concern given the fact that we hear he's been practicing improving his shooting. It seems to me that when he doesn't think too much he shoots better, just like when he made the game winner against Raptors.
Deletebe patient :) we need to support him whether he's doing well or struggling
DeleteLin's shot needs alot of work. Two things stand out: his jumpstance and the gripping of the ball. It doesn't seem like he has a good feel or grip of the ball. It should feel like a suction cup with your fingers. He should practice more with moist fingers to get a grip and better feel of the ball. It's like a pitcher finding the seams of a baseball to get better control of the ball. I don't see that at all with Lin. It's more like a chucking action. In my opinion form is not all that important but the feel of the ball is. He has no feeling with the ball.
ReplyDeleteOn the poor shooting during the street ball game, note that this was at night AFTER a full day's coaching kids, AFTER his regular strength training, AFTER his regular shooting practice and during the LAST NIGHT of heading up a basketball camp. Do you know how exhausting that probably is? I know that when I have days like that, I miss more shots and my form is not quite at its best. (J/k, I've never had a day like that. I play for about two hours, and then I'm spent.) I think that Doc's stats are a better indicator of how his shooting's doing, not this one night-time game.
ReplyDelete(And yes, I'm hoping that the increased stats will show during the real games too.)
add: of course, I don't know for sure that he worked out that day , but he did lead camp for a few days. That's probably exhausting.
DeleteWhatever the case, remember that Lin's not stupid. He will notice if he's not shooting as well during these low key games (playing with his brother, David Lee, etc.). Not only is he not stupid, but he's also smart. He's probably watched his videos of his games very carefully and thought through many of the shooting mechanics tips that many of you have suggested.
I honestly think that some of the commenters here are reacting out of fear, probably because Jeremy's your hero and you really don't want him to fail. I feel that too. But remember that this is a strong guy with strong resolve; he puts his trust in God and works with his whole heart. He's smart and is able to make come backs after failures. So, I don't think this video gives us anything to worry about.
(All that said... I would like to see how his left hand is doing... but he also said that he's been working on it much of the summer...)
(My comment keeps erasing... not sure what's going on...)
ReplyDeleteOn the poor shooting during the street ball game, note that this was at night AFTER a full day's coaching kids, and probably AFTER his regular strength training and shooting practice during the day. It was also the end of a long week heading up a camp. I know that when I have days like that, I miss more shots and my form is not quite at its best. (J/k, I've never had a day like that. I play for about two hours, and then I'm spent.) I think that Doc's stats are a better indicator of how his shooting's doing, not this one night-time game.
(And yes, I'm hoping that the increased stats will show during the real games too.)
Same thing here. My comment kept on getting erased, so I thought the admin was erasing my comments. :)
DeleteI guess we're all overanalyzing things too much. Jeremy is in the NBA for a reason. Whatever he's doing is working so far and hopefully he can keep getting better.
ReplyDeleteI really can't wait for the season to start.
amen to that. it's only one pickup game, even if he resorts to some old habits when he's tired, it's not the end of the world :)
DeleteI'm also excited to see how well he plays with his new teammates. Run-and-gun, baby!
Seriously guys. He's playing a pickup game underneath a highway overpass, with construction crew floodlights shining directly in his face.
DeleteIf this was a real basketball game, would they have a camera woman standing right in the middle of center court ?
This is like a Harlem Globetrotters game, just for show.
I was here before Linsanity, and everyone had advice on how JLin should improve his game. Then the storm hit. I think Jeremy is perfectly able to raise his game.
DeleteI enjoy following Lin and posting about Lin. But few people on here know what they are talking about...at least the site is interesting...
ReplyDeleteTVN - your post above is spot on.
ReplyDeleteI realy dont know what problem you guys have. He probably was tired from training. How can you make precise shots when your arms feel like lead? Do you exercise 3-4 hours a day? I exercise 1 hour a day and that already feels like too much.
ReplyDeleteDoes Kobe make every single shot? Whats with the Knicks/Lakers game? Didnt Kobe miss his first nine shots or so? Did MJ make every single shot? How about Melo? Perfect shooter? Humidity level high, lots of people around, and these blinding lights from the corners... I wouldnt care if JLin had missed all his shots.
Jeremy has been an outstanding player his whole life. Shouldnt we have learned something from that? Like to trust in his abilities? We should - this is a fan site. He made it to the NBA. A ball club vowed to give him 25.000.000 US Dollars. Any of you have such a contract?
And his coaches? They are coaching - they make a living out of it. They have done it for a long time. No credit for that? The fact that they are playing probably more than most of us? The fact that Doc Scheppler has been analyzing bball shooting techniques for decades? Its safe to asume that he had been coaching individuals for quite some time - not just girl teams. What about the fact that Jeremy himself went to these people and asked for help? Not good enough?
Last time I checked - nobody here was a professional athlete or coach - let alone NBA player or NBA coach. Yet - people are doubting, people criticise and know it all better. Doc Scheppler refered to these people as "KNOWITALLS". That man hits the spot!
So - to all the keyboard warriors... its ok to talk about JLin and his development. Its ok to analyze and make educated guesses and assumptions. Its also ok to criticise as long as people stick to facts and dont just bash. To say that certain people know nothing? What is your qualification? How can you dare to make such claims swinglinezigzag?
@singlinezigzag:
You are contradicting yourself. How can you enjoy following posts here and at the same time claim that most people dont know what they are talking about? Who are you? Youre a NBA player? Havent you noticed that this site is just made of links and peoples comments? If you dont take other people serious - other people wont take you serious as well.
@Admins of the site:
I wont lose the feeling that certain people use different nicknames to post here. Can you guys implement a system to check for that?
I said I enjoy following Lin & his story. I did not say I liked the posts. I said I enjoy posting. I do appreciate the people who supply links and videos however.
DeleteI should say "some" of the people on here are clueless, not most. Yes I am a scrub at basketball. I have played against a handful of second rate NBA players in my lifetime and gotten killed every time. But I believe I do understand basketball and the Asian American experience In the USA and some of the Ignorant and unknowledgeable comments about basketball and the AA experience here are ridiculous.
Our common ground here is that we all really want Lin to do well and that is commendable. We all believe what we say is more accurate and more true than the next guy.
Lin is a remarkable basketball talent who happens to be Asian. He may look like your brother or your cousin, but make no mistake, this guy is one of a kind. Just cause you look like him doesn't mean you will play like him too without natural basketball talent. Some people need to understand that here.
Well, everybody is on pins and needles of anxiety, waiting for the season to start. I understand the feeling. And there are still 5 weeks to go before preseason starts, although camp and other stuff like that will open even sooner ... so probably a couple of weeks still before real news starts. I myself will be preoccupied with college football until the NBA preseason/season starts, and it might be helpful if others found similar temporary distractions. Just a suggestion!
DeleteI appreciate all the commentary here, as long as it isn't aimed at making specific people here look bad.
DeleteMost of us here are pretty darned knowledgeable, including my biggest detractors. On a strictly basketball level, I am reading a level of analysis that far exceeds what I am seeing from not just professional basketball media, but professional basketball scouts. After all, those types pretty much all failed to recognize Lin's talent didn't they?
Generally, there is virtually nothing posted here on a basketball level that I don't take seriously. In my decades of following the NBA, I have seen pro personnel making the same arguments we make over here. The only difference is that most of us here are far more aware of the Asian American experience than they are, which is why we follow Jeremy Lin in the first place.
And then there's the hard reality: If you don't like what you read here, LEAVE.
Let's all get together and play some ball!
Delete@swinglinezigzag:
DeleteMy bad. Thought you wrote "enjoy postings" instead of "enjoy posting".
Anyway - Im still not ok with you claiming that few (or some) know what they talk about. That implies that people are dumb and write nonsense. That is offensive. Im under the impression that this is a fan site. What do you expect? Its not like youre a pro. It doesnt matter if you played against NBA players. I had a teacher who was a european taekwondo champ and I shook a presidents hand. Im still not THE martial artist and Im still not a politician. So - chances are - youre just a bball fan and who is just as knowledgeable as most pepople here.
If people feel the need to have extravagant and long debates -> there should be better places for that. As for this site - I suggest that people make their point and otherwise agree to disagree. Dont make it personal - everyones happy. If you dont like peoples post - check the links, read the articles and ignore the posts or leave.
Besides - you can agree with TVN if you want (no disrespect TVN - just making a point). TVN didnt see JLin as an NBA player - like everyone else as he explained. Now - read all the articles, watch all the videos and you will see that there have always been people who saw JLins potential. If TVN was wrong - just like most people were - doesnt it show that TVN has no superpowers and that most knowitalls dont know that much?
As for JLin looking like my brother or cousin - what is your problem? Why should JLin look like them? Do white folks all look alike? Do all black folks believe that they play like MJ? So - why should people understand what? Again - that is offensive - besides your observation is wrong.
JLin isnt just a great basketball player who happens to be asian. He is a great NBA player despite the fact that he is asian. If you dont understand that - what have you understood? JLin himself has talked about that many times and he embraces that part of his story. Like it or not - so do his asian-american fans and they do it for good reasons.
Asians have been in the US for centuries, enslaved, abused, murdered, they have fought in wars, given their lifes, were sometimes highly decorated (e.g. 442nd infantry) and have contributed to the development of the US. Asian folks have been playing bball for just as long - an yet - there have only been a hand full of asian americans who have pursued an NBA career. Why is that???
Im of chinese descent and Im 1,92 meters tall (6 feet 3 inches) and my cousin is 2,02 meters tall (6 feet 6 inches). Thats really nothing special amongst my people. So - its not the physical attributes. If youre white or black or whatever - think about it! The word racism should come to mind...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCqP0AtwXeE
So - when it comes to JLin - asians will always feel different than black folks who think of Kobe. Only black folks who are a bit older can really understand that (think of the times when bball was still the sports of white folks). Yes - JLins race plays a role and he does represent asian americans. If you cant tolerate a few asians who show their pride - you really have to reexamine your life... whilst not being on the fan site of an asian athlete.
Anyway - there is no need for you to enlighten anyone. If you still feel the need to do so - try something were smarts and empathy is not required. Spread some biblical wisdom on peoples doorsteps... maybe youll find someone who appreciates your help.
Have a thicker skin dude and don't take a message board so seriously. Everybody wants Jlin to succeed but each person just have a different way of expressing it.
DeleteJust like there are different types of mothers there are different types of fans. Some mothers are protective types who do not want to see their precious child get criticized whatsoever. Maybe you're that type. Some mothers are tiger moms who may appear overly critical of their child because they feel toughness brings about excellence. It's all good. We're all wired differently.
Because of excellent posts like these, this forum is the best one I've ever been on.
DeleteThat's not hyperbole, speaking only for myself.
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DeleteWell said, @willydilly.
DeleteWhile it is true that some people have more basketball knowledge than the others, there is no need to be condescending for all us. Not only we will turn off a lot of people, we will stop ourselves learning from others' perspective.
I actually enjoy reading all postings because I get to learn new things every time.
Always try to find the common ground with people we disagree with. But focus on ideas, don't attack the person. Avoid name-calling, race-baiting, and putting down others. Present your ideas with solid arguments to help people, not to prove people wrong. If they disagree, that's okay. We can agree to disagree.
I don't claim to be a basketball expert but I enjoy playing and learning about basketball analysis. Most of all, we are all JLin fans, inspired by his story, and we all want him to do well. If we can support him positively no matter when he is up or down, I'm sure Jeremy himself will appreciate it. Let's respect each other more by focusing on ideas, not person. Hopefully we make this wonderful site an even better place.
@willydilly,
DeleteFor the record, the first time I saw Jeremy play was against Mitty in the CCS Final in 2005. He was about 6'0" 150 lbs. soaking wet, so no, I didn't see him as an NBA prospect at that time, and if anyone says they did at that time, then they are lying. I did think he was good enough to play in the PAC-10 the following season when he led his team to the state title. The first time I thought he had a shot at the NBA was after he dismantled Boston College his junior season at Harvard.
Who else saw Jeremy in HS?
@TVN,
DeleteWhat's your point? Are you implying that because you saw Jlin in high school that your opinions on Jlin are more accurate than others? I'm from the Bay Area. I have friends that went to Paly and I have a number of friends/co-workers that live in Palo Alto now (their kids go to Paly). I'm sure if I dig enough..I'll be able to find out people that actually know him. Does this make my opinion any more or less important or valuable? Absolutely not. I only heard of Jlin from college, but the first video I saw of him, I immediately thought he could be an NBA caliber talent.
@jlinisasuperhero,
DeleteLOL, stop it! It does matter that I saw him in HS because I saw how he progressed through the years.
First video, LOL! What video? You were able to tell someone was an NBA caliber talent through a highlight video? SMH, there's a bunch of amateur players out there with flashy highlight videos that make them look like absolute studs and most of them won't play in the NBA. Stop it....
I wouldn't automatically dismiss a guy just because he looked like he could play based on a single video.
DeleteLike jlinisasuperhero, it took me one video and a couple trips down the court for me to see Lin had not only NBA athleticism but NBA skills and reflexes.
I'll bet jlinisasuperhero is like me: a guy who has watched countless videos of NBA aspirants. I personally derive a great deal of fun from seeing whether my opinions of players actually match up to what they do in the NBA. I learned by being WRONG as well as right.
Here is an example of a guy that went wrong for me. Solomon Alabi of FSU is a 7'1" 250 lb center who was drafted in the 2nd round. I though he was going to come into the NBA on the Toronto Raptors, start his career as a low usage backup who provided spot minutes, and occasionally wheeled for a hook shot in the post or a spin move dunk. I though he could play about 10 min a game. I was WRONG - reports indicated that he just couldn't grasp NBA schemes intellectually.
On the other hand, most of the readers here correctly pegged Lin as an NBA talent off video analysis - usually only after a few viewings. It is easy to dismiss their opinions, but the GOT IT RIGHT, didn't they?
@Khuang,
DeleteI have to admit..you are a far more knowledgeable basketball fan than I am. I was a huge NBA fan in the early to mid 90s and loved to watch the Warriors during the run TMC days as well as the Michael Jordan era. I played some JV basketball in high school, but I got more interested in other sports in my junior and senior year in high school though I'm proud to say I actually could dunk a tennis ball :) and could pretty regularly grab onto the rim (short wingspan so could never fully dunk a basketball).
The first time I saw Jlin (I think it was the BC game..don't recall..may have been Uconn), I watched a great athlete finish a two-handed dunk with ease, make great steals, and had a few awesome assists. I really thought he "COULD" be an NBA talent.
Thanks, jlinisasuperhero.
DeleteI was a big fan of Run TMC too. While I thought that the Warriors made a franchise killing decision by trading Mitch Richmond, I did like Billy Owens even though I was unhappy that they passed up on Dikembe Mutumbo. We all know that Don Nelson probably would have misused Mutombo by having him shoot 3s or something crazy like that, so we probably didn't miss much.
With Jeremy Lin, I saw the same things you did. Yet believe it or not, that's not what stuck out to me. It was Jeremy Lin's reflexes, court instincts, body language, and overall on court personality that got to me.
In all of the big games Lin played in, his non scholarship Harvard team was pitifully overmatched. Many other players, including some of the NBA's biggest stars like Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard, would be grandstanding with their body language like "Woe is me, as mine poor fortune causes me to be thy superhero on this weakass team". But NOOO, Jeremy Lin was as focused and as team oriented the way true leaders are in the face of overwhelming odds. As a result, his team made plays and rallied behind him. I was like "This guy is a WINNER!"
At the NCAA level, I see so many guys with All World athleticism who don't have the court instincts to make NBA plays. Jeremy Lin is one of the rare guys who has both. For example, flipping in that layup over Georgetown's Greg Monroe takes a certain kind of timing that only a NBA guard can do. Plays like these stick out in my mind as examples of NBA talent that translate to the next level.
When I look at Lin's demeanor, he is aware of everything on and off the court. That awareness also translates to the NBA, and it amazes me that NBA scouts will often DEGRADE a player that has that awareness because they think he's "reached his ceiling". That instinctive court awareness is why my 3 favorite players in the 2012 draft were Jeremy Lamb, Jae Crowder, and Andrew Nicholson.
Jeremy Lin struck me as a "can't miss" guard. That said, I have NEVER been able to look at any NCAA guard and say "Oh, that's a future NBA All Star". I can do it a little more with big men, but it's getting harder because big men are becoming less skilled with each passing draft year.
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ReplyDelete@TVN,
ReplyDeleteYou have a way of putting words in people's mouth don't you :). You are constantly trying to put down other people by somehow elevating your own self and creating a self delusion that your opinion matters more than others.. I'm glad this makes you feel better in your own mind. The fact that you've seen Jlin in high school means nothing to me when you make a point so stop trying to use that to make yourself look better. I meet people like you all the time.
BTW,
DeleteI said Jlin "could" be an NBA caliber player...I didn't say he was going to be... You're cracking me up bud.
@TVN..keep on coming bud..I need my laugh for the day :).
DeleteWhen I first watched Lin in college as a sophomore I honestly didn't think he was an NBA prospect. But as soon as his junior and senior year was done I was convinced he was. Even then I just thought he would be a serviceable backup.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that it would help you better understand if you watched him throughout the years. I would consider him a late bloomer, especially in the growth of him physically and athletically. Also, I believe he had more potential than most to improve with weight training. This meant that the difference between him lifting weights versus not lifting is HUGE.
I say that because I was similar, but obviously on a lower level. I grew from 5'6" to 6' my senior of HS and not on the school team. I began lifting after graduating and made it to my division III college team my second year. The only downside is that this "added athleticism" has to be maintained with continuous training. For others the athleticism may be more natural. The "added athleticism" of Lin was on full display when Febrauary 2012 arrived.
This is not to say that the physicals are the most important. It simply allows him to perform his skills much better. Does this make sense?
I agree that Jeremy's high school career is a relevant discussion point and an interesting one as well. I just don't like when someone puffs up their chest, self aggrandizes, and says look at me "I watched Jlin in high school and now I'm the expert so you all have to agree with what I say".
DeleteBoth you guys make perfect sense.
DeleteHubie Brown once railed against SOME of the early entry candidates, saying that they were hurting their long term professional development by entering the NBA before their bodies were fully developed.
Jeremy Lin's body fully developed by his junior year, and that is when he became a serious NBA prospect. Not coincidentally, that's when a lot of us started following him. I am probably the "latest to the table" because I didn't start following Lin until he made the Dallas summer league 2010 team, and that is because I was actually tracking Lin's teammate Omar Samhan who I still think would be a topflight NBA center!
Generally I only look at a draftee's final season before declaring for the NBA draft. Lin had a superb senior year, especially against big name opponents with his pitifully undermatched team.
I have a special preference for one man team types in college that carry their squads by pulling their less talented teammates along without making them feel inferior or look stupid. Those players, like Lin, typically excel in the NBA.
Jeremy just might have the biggest bullseye on his back next season. He better be ready and I hope one of his people let him know about this to give him some extra motivation in his training.
ReplyDeleteRondo is talking some serious trash:
The Celtics All-Star also said he expects to beat Jeremy Lin "pretty badly" when Boston meet Lin's new team, the Houston Rockets, RTHK reports.
http://www.celticslife.com/2012/08/rajon-rondo-talks-some-serious-trash.html
I salute Rajon Rondo.
DeleteLet him bring his A+ game to take on Jeremy Lin. I look forward to Rondo backing up his threat with the game of his life.
Rondo is an old school type of player in that he regards ALL opposing pgs as his mortal enemy. He totally angered Chris Paul to the point Paul wanted to fight him on the court. I LIKE that.
Jeremy Lin will be targeted. I'm OK with other NBA players like Rondo seeking to embarrass him off the court. But if the referees don't call those flagrant fouls on Lin like they would on any other player, then that would be bad for Lin and bad for the NBA.
Here's something I found interesting from SI NBA blogger Zach Lowe, with a Lin tidbit at the end:
ReplyDeleteThat second report measured potential assists by tracking every shot, make or miss, that would have led to an assist under NBA standards. It then divided those assists by shot locations, so that we can see which point guards tend to produce which type of open attempts: shots at the rim, long twos, three-pointers, etc. The idea is to isolate point guards who create a lot of the “best” shots, namely layups and threes, and not long two-pointers — in theory, the worst shot in the game.
Now team context is obviously a huge factor here. A whopping 43 percent of Rajon Rondo’s potential assists led to long twos, the highest number in the sample, but that’s not an indictment of Rondo’s creativity. Any team starting two jump-shooting power forwards (Brandon Bass and Kevin Garnett) will rely to a borderline unhealthy degree on long twos.
But Denver’s numbers here are still jarring. Andre Miller and Lawson ranked among the half-dozen “best” point guards in the league by this standard, with 67 percent of Miller’s potential assists and 56 percent of Lawson’s leading either to threes or shots at the rim. Only Jeremy Lin (68 percent) had a higher percentage of potential assists fall in those areas, a fact I suspect Houston’s geeky brain trust is already aware of.
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/08/31/multi-camera-tracking-technology/
What Jeremy doesn't need to turn into:
Brandon Jennings' affinity for difficult floaters and mid-range jumpers added to the Bucks' offensive woes last season.
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/07/19/a-little-work-could-turn-jennings-into-all-star/
Thanks for the links, TVN.
DeleteOnce again, Jeremy Lin is at the top of the NBA in some statistical category.
I have no idea if Lin can get the Rockets to finish inside or not. I don't even know if Omer Asik can CATCH the ball, let alone shoot it. I also have no idea what the young Rockets big men are going to do next season.
Coach George Karl in Denver runs a motion system that is heavily reliant on PG play. Even in the halfcourt, Denver is essentially a fast break team that tries to suck defensive big men to the perimeter by threatening the 3 pointer while sending high flying forwards in for backdoor lobs and putbacks.
Brandon Jennings has a wonderful game, especially with that nasty lateral north south dribble that culminates in a stop and pop jumper. All opponents can do is hope that he misses his jumper, which he does a lot of the time. Still, the Bucks weren't going to get far with the limited but valiant Drew Gooden as their best inside player. I wouldn't blame Jennings for the Bucks' offensive woes.