But it's my opinion that the money may not matter. The way I see it, even of the Knicks couldn't match or didn't match, JLin could make up the money in endorsements alone by playing in NYC. Of course, if the Knicks don't match, then that could itself be a sign that they don't want JLin that bad. So I suppose it could be argued that "it's not about the money" and that it's about the respect.
I really think its about where JLin feels he has the best chance to develop and the environment that the team offers. If Landry leaves the Knicks, does that make it more likely that JLin could leave? How well does JLin know the guys on the Rockets, since he did play with them. What coach is the best fit for him? I think these factors will come into play more than the money. What do you think?
Finally, some links to what others are saying around the web:
- Here's Tommy Dee's take from The Knicks Blog. Dee makes some good points and also links to Mike Lupica's thoughts (see below). Having seen JLin play in High School, however, I strongly disagree with this comment of Tommy Dee's: "Lin wanted to play at Stanford but they were too athletic for him at the time so he went to play in the Ivy League."
- Ciaran Gowan from The Bleacher Report on why the Knicks should match the Rockets' offer.
- Lupica for The NY Daily News on why JLin should take the Rockets' offer.
- Finally, the Associated Press on why the Kidd acquisition might help the Knicks keep JLin.
In all honesty, if we rewind back to Christmas 2011 I think we all can agree that we all (Jeremy included) would be happy if Jeremy even up with the NBA minimum salary and getting 20 minutes here and there. Flash forward to summer 2012, now we have people saying he's getting underpaid and everything. I think that the amount he is offered is perfect. Look at it this way: if he gets anything over $10 million a year, then you're going to have angry mobs of people watching his every step and ready to spew hate just like we have seen with Carmelo, LeBron, Marbury. Since he is only 23, after 3-4 years he will be around 27 and then that will be a new round of negotiation based on how he did the 3-4 years in the duration of the contract. If he ends up producing like a Deron Williams or a Rajon Rondo, then we will see the max contract being offered to him. So for this negotiation, there needs to be a balance to keep things in order, and I believe the Rockets and Knicks are playing this the way it should. Wherever Jeremy goes, he WILL get to play and will get paid like an NBA player should. So enjoy the ride, everyone.
ReplyDeleteNemo
I was of the same mindset as you before this. However, the more i think about it the more I feel Lin should get more money. If Houston got Lin at the current offer price, Im cool with that. However, if NY got Lin at the matched price then that really nags at me for some reason. And that is bound to happen. Which makes me even more agitated. The reason i say this is because NY really lucked out on this deal. You see, the price of living in NY is extremely high compared to other parts of the country. Everything comes with a heavy price and so does playing basketball in NY. As such Lin should be compensated at a higher level than other smaller cities. I am not talking just financial but also mental and emotional compensation. Playing in NY is stressful, especially when your one of the focal points of the team. Over a three year haul, it's no longer a honeymoon. The honeymoon period probably ends at one to one and a half year if that. Look at the Melo. What eats at me most is that Houston has the intellectual technology but not the financial balls to grab Lin at a second chance for redemption. How can you sleep at nite knowing you let a guy go twice? all this adds up to one lucky bastard Dolan. He doesn't deserve it.
DeleteI'm sure Lin can live comfortably in NYC for 5 or 9 million dollars a year. I'll even go out on a limb and say Lin lived comfortably in NYC last year with his 760K salary.
Deleteeric, you're missing the point altogether. enough said.
DeleteI am with you, mt.
DeleteEric, it violates ppl's sense of fairness, douchebag got JLin for cheap [relative to the rewards he brings], stands to rake in gazillions off him.
Delete[oh & Nyk's actions came to one massive neg that reverberated through the league. Add that to existing implicit stereotypes that is JLin's burden = negative social proof, devaluation. So don't say they weren't playing hardball with him.]
via:
DeleteExcept that the Rockets would have gotten Lin for cheap, and would have also stood to rake in gazillions off him. The difference is that the Rockets cut Lin before ever giving him a chance, where the Knicks actually gave him a chance. What should violate people's sense of fairness is wanting the team that gave him a shot to lose Lin and get nothing in return, and wanting the team that cut Lin already to get him back for much less than they could have offered him. What prevented Houston from offering Lin the $40 million max? They don't have cap problems like the Knicks. And the Knicks were in no obligation to pay Lin $40 million. All they have to do is match the highest offer that Lin gets.
" Nyk's actions came to one massive neg that reverberated through the league."
Which actions were those? Tell me.
"Add that to existing implicit stereotypes that is JLin's burden = negative social proof, devaluation."
And that is the Knicks' fault how? If anything, the Rockets added to Lin's burden BY CUTTING HIM.
"So don't say they weren't playing hardball with him"
The Knicks are running a business. It isn't their job to remedy the social issues that surround Jeremy Lin, since they didn't create them. Or to put it another way: the Knicks already did their job to address those social issues by making Lin the starting point guard when no other team in the NBA would even put him on the floor. Meanwhile, the Rockets added to those issues by cutting him without giving him a shot.
The only thing this is about is not wanting Lin to play second fiddle to Melo in New York, but instead wanting him to have his own team, no matter what team it is. Folks should just admit that and move on.
mt wrote: "The price of living in NY is extremely high compared to other parts of the country. Everything comes with a heavy price and so does playing basketball in NY. As such Lin should be compensated at a higher level than other smaller cities. I am not talking just financial but also mental and emotional compensation. Playing in NY is stressful, especially when your one of the focal points of the team."
DeleteWhile that is true, that also applies to every athlete. And no other athlete's salary is significantly scaled according to the city. If that were the case, then the min/max salaries values would be different for each city, but they're not.
In general, most athletes prefer to play in larger markets because they receive more exposure and therefore make more in endorsements. If anything, smaller markets need to pay more to attract players.
Unknown, that's it: Linsanity, then, now, and forever. Some Lin fans blame the return of Stoudemire, then to a much greater extent Anthony, for ending Linsanity. They see D'Antoni as Lin's coach and Woodson as Anthony's coach. That's not altogether wrong, but it's simplistic and incomplete. Some have even gone so far on this line of thinking as to equate being anti-Knicks with being pro-Lin.
DeleteI want Linsanity back, too, but I want it when Lin has matured into a veteran who can carry that heavy a load. In the near term, I believe the Knicks offer Lin the better opportunity to grow and mature as a PG, with a team that can make a deep play-off run. There were growing pains with Anthony and Stoudemire, but after the team switched coaches before Lin went down, there were signs in Lin's 7 games under Woodson they were gelling.
I agree with the don't-match proponents the Rockets right now can offer Lin more Linsanity-like conditions. I believe he'd be at least as successful as Dragic's run last season. But the Rockets are an unstable franchise right now. While While I believe the Kidd signing threatens Lin will be overused, it's more likely the Rockets will give Lin the kind of punishing 'Secretariat' load that ground him down under D'Antoni.
Add: There's also the belief that the Knicks and Woodson, worse than being pro-Anthony, are actively anti-Lin and intent on sabotaging Lin's career.
DeleteI suppose the idea is that if the Knicks match the Rockets offer, they're only doing it to squeeze out Lin's commercial value ... while simultaneously working to reduce his commercial marketability by hurting his basketball value, and thereby the team's chances of winning, on the court.
mt wrote: "The price of living in NY is extremely high compared to other parts of the country. Everything comes with a heavy price and so does playing basketball in NY. As such Lin should be compensated at a higher level than other smaller cities. I am not talking just financial but also mental and emotional compensation. Playing in NY is stressful, especially when your one of the focal points of the team."
DeleteWhile that is true, that also applies to every athlete. And no other athlete's salary is significantly scaled according to the city. If that were the case, then the min/max salaries values would be different for each city, but they're not.
In general, most athletes prefer to play in larger markets because they receive more exposure and therefore make more in endorsements. If anything, smaller markets need to pay more to attract players.
If Lin finds that a guaranteed $5 million salary for the next 2 years with a guaranteed raise to $9 million in the 3rd year isn't softening the stress of living his dream of playing pro basketball in NYC, he should call up a few of his fellow Harvard 10 grads for perspective. I'm sure many of them are currently working very hard in soul-crushing jobs or piling up student loans in grad school for a lot less pay and security than Lin now has. They might even be living and working or going to school in NYC.
DeleteDon't make STUPID assumptions about Lin feels about the cost of living in NY, Eric and Hater Unknown.
DeleteYou guys don't have ESP.
Assuming Lin can live comfortably in NYC on 4/29 or 3/20 is a safe assumption. K, just how extravagent a lifestyle do you think he has?
DeleteIf that amount of money can't compensate Lin for the stress of playing for the Knicks, adding more money isn't going to solve the problem.
Stop acting like you think Lin is some sort of malcontent, Eric.
DeleteIt's unbecoming for a Lin hater like you to write inflammatory garbage about what you think Lin thinks just because you want to make lin and his fans look stupid.
I'm calling you out - AGAIN.
K, I'm the one defending Lin from doubters who believe he's too mentally and emotionally weak to handle the pressure of playing for the Knicks. And implying Lin doesn't know how to live on millions of dollars.
DeleteWhy are you siding with the doubters, K?
Bs, Eric.
DeleteYou're not defending anybody from anyone. Mt and janelin already called you out for trying to mislead people.
Once again, you deliberately try to mislead people not just about Lin but about us here. If you look closely, nobody is doubting Lin's ability to understand the higher cost of living in NY. Instead, you have wilfully twisted this into a mean spirited diatribe on your mistaken assumption that Lin doesn't understand NY finances.
I can play your game too. We here on this site have been onto you for months.
Me a doubter. You're a LIAR.
Unknown:
Delete"The difference is that the Rockets cut Lin before ever giving him a chance, where the Knicks actually gave him a chance."
- True, the Rockets did that, AS WOULD HAVE THE NYK, had circumstances not FORCED them to play JLin. The Nyk were going to cut him that week, & were making arrangements to trade him even as far as the Jazz game, so please, enough with the 'Nyk gave him a chance' mantra. Nyk did him no favor, he caught a break, & proceeded to earn that spot playing his heart out [& save their season.]
"What should violate people's sense of fairness is wanting the team that gave him a shot to lose Lin and get nothing in return, and wanting the team that cut Lin already to get him back for much less than they could have offered him."
- GET NOTHING IN RETURN? Maybe the fans. Douchebag got loads, again, AS PER ROI.
- oh, & this is not a Nyk vs Rockets who's more deserving thing, is it? [Is it?] We're still talking about what's best for JLin, right? Who the hell cares that it's the Rockets, it's team X [with ABC upside] vs team Y [with XYZ], & let's see what's to JLin's benefit, right?
"What prevented Houston from offering Lin the $40 million max? They don't have cap problems like the Knicks.
- I agree the Rockets offer is a head-scratcher [Could they really have offered more, but didn't? Then Morey is the worst statistician in the history of the world, which I doubt. & if they couldn't bec of financial constrainst, why did they even bother? Obviously we don't have enough info.]
Unknown:
Delete"And the Knicks were in no obligation to pay Lin $40 million. All they have to do is match the highest offer that Lin gets."
- True, & they played their cards well, & got what they want. I don't have to like it, do I?
"Which actions were those? Tell me."
- I don't know, a coach who repeatedly hemmed & hawed about starting you, & "I've known guys who played with meniscus tears no problem..."? [oh, & pls don't bring up that Mastro PR stunt, pls.]
- A FO that abandons you out there to deal with fall-out [from aggressively marketing you for a playoffs you have no hope of returning in time to participate in?]
- Going for other PGs like a headless chicken?
- Yeah, they'll match 'up to 1 billion dollars.' For a back-up. Wonder what they're signalling out there..?
"And that is the Knicks' fault how?"
- No it's not Nyk's fault, they were just crafty to ride it. They were taking advantage of the situation. It is what it is, & I resent it, that's all.
"If anything, the Rockets added to Lin's burden BY CUTTING HIM."
- Again, this is not a Nyx vs Rockets thing, is it? It's not what Nyx/Rockets deserve, it's what's better for JLin [isn't this what we're on THIS site for?]
- On another point, Morey [& McHale] have since come out to make amends.
"The Knicks are running a business. It isn't their job to remedy the social issues that surround Jeremy Lin, since they didn't create them."
- I never said they should. That 'hardball' comment was in response to Eric on the preceding thread, read the context if you wish.
Unknown:
Delete"Or to put it another way: the Knicks already did their job to address those social issues by MAKING Lin the starting point guard when no other team in the NBA would even put him on the floor."
- This trope should be put to rest. They were FORCED by circumstance, dgaf about JLin, D'Antoni didn't even know his name, lol. But worst, even after Linsanity, even after closing games, THEY STILL WOULDN'T AFFIRM HIM STARTING.
"The only thing this is about is not wanting Lin to play second fiddle to Melo in New York, but instead wanting him to have his own team, no matter what team it is. Folks should just admit that and move on."
- I want what best for JLin. Will playing with Melo & the Nyk be the best for JLin? I don't know, energy is finite, & stress takes its toll. & instead of focusing on perfecting his craft, JLin will be having to be hypervigilant to the passive-aggressive garbage surrounding him in that toxic environment.
- I wonder if you're one of those Nyk fan who thought JLin was being an ingrate by not pledging himself right off the bat & take a pay cut since "he owes the Nyk"?
- Pls note, I'm not sold on the Rockets bec that wonky offer is just a red flag. It's all moot, anyway, no? He'll be a Nyx.
Eric:
DeleteDon't know wth you're going on about, my post was simple:
- Nyk was playing hardball [as to be expected], they got what they wanted.
- Rockets offer carried no deterrent, wtf?
- Ugh, resent that Dolan will be profiting up the wazoo, & that team is just smh.
- Sigh. The End.
"...he should call up a few of his fellow Harvard 10 grads for perspective. I'm sure many of them are currently working very hard in soul-crushing jobs or piling up student loans in grad school for a lot less pay and security than Lin now has."
- Yeah, & their not making douchebag [I meant Mr Dolan, sorry, being ungrateful again] piles of cash. What's the point of comparing? Be grateful for what you have [ala I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man with no feet?] He earned, & will earn every single dollar he gets.
"Assuming Lin can live comfortably in NYC on 4/29 or 3/20 is a safe assumption. K, just how extravagent a lifestyle do you think he has?
If that amount of money can't compensate Lin for the stress of playing for the Knicks, adding more money isn't going to solve the problem."
- Wth..?
- The lopsidedness in profit from this enterprise, between JLin & the Nyk, is jarring, that's all. A deal is a deal, but people don't have to like it. [yeah, yeah, ungrateful, blahblahblah]
Eric, you got a funny way of siding with Lin. Walk on the wild side sometimes. You walk middle of the road, so we don't know which side you're on. after the terrible trade for Camby by giving players, picks, and ridiculous money to an over the hill guy, IT FURTHERS my belief that Lin is undervalued and underpaid. So far Knicks have overspent on guys who havent made a significant return on investment. And the guy that has, they are lucking out on by underpaying him. Via put it best.."it violates people's sense of fairness." All your numbers you love to spew out is bureaucratic crap. All you gotta do is open your eyes. NOt everything needs to be spelled out and rationalized to death to brind an idea to life. Read between the lines.
DeleteEric:
Delete"I'm the one defending Lin from doubters who believe he's too mentally and emotionally weak to handle the pressure of playing for the Knicks. And implying Lin doesn't know how to live on millions of dollars."
No one here think he's any shade of weak, nice sleight of words. Forcing his way through a gauntlet of no, his f-ing entire life, are you kidding me? But what he's getting, RELATIVE TO WHAT HE'LL BRING TO THE FRANCHISE, looks a bit off.
via, I was responding to mt and, to a lesser extent, K's defense/dismissal of mt.
DeleteAs far as fair compensation for Lin's added marketing value to his team and the NBA, the issue isn't unique to Lin. Other players have had marketing value that eclipsed their basketball value. How much value has Lebron James added to the Cavs, Heat, and the NBA? Michael Jordan? Neither of their player salaries have fairly compensated their added marketing value, even when Jordan was making 30+ mil per at the end of his Bulls career.
Who knows why the Rockets didn't make a better offer. At least it's more than the offer the Knicks could have made to Lin. More to the point, who knows why another team like the Raptors didn't make a better offer or, as far as we know, any offer. Beyond my guess at Lin's basketball value, I can't guess how NBA front offices weighed his added marketing value and everything else.
Fortunately for Lin, the NBA is not the NCAA. Like James and Jordan, Lin can augment his player salary by selling his marketing value independently of his team and the NBA. I don't know if his rookie-year Nike contract is still active, but he did sign a 2-year Volvo contract this year. If his career progresses as we expect, he should get more and better commercial opportunities.
Dolan, MSG, and the NBA aren't the only entities allowed to cash in on Lin. Lin can and should profit from his NBA fame. I imagine the NBA, his team, and fellow players will support him in doing so.
You should all be ashamed. Sacramento, Houston, nor NYK made Lin. Lin made Lin. Knicks were the ones who benefited. He proved that he could play and they were the ones who he happened to be playing with. No one looked twice until the Knicks needed a leader on the floor. He proved to everyone that he can play with the big boys. So let him be. He has a decision to make. Where will he be better off? I think the Knicks would do well to resign him. But it is ultimately Lin's choice.
Deleteeric, you're pulling crap out of your ass with everything you've said so far. Nobody is implying anything, dismissing anyone or denying anything. You just set a lower standard for yourself this time around.
DeleteI agree with Nemo, I think $7M/year is a good balance between money, respect, and reason. Lin's not in it for the money itself, but money shows what level of commitment the team has in a player. If Lin makes max contract like over $10M/year, he's going to invite extra scrutiny and criticism which would only hurt his game.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMoney doesn't matter as much to Jeremy Lin. At this point in his young career, anything above his previous minimum salary of $730,000 is a dream come true.
ReplyDeleteAs a rookie, he chose to sign Golden State Warriors over other (Much better) teams like the Lakers and Mavericks. That's where his family is, and he grew up a Warriors fan, so he was familiar with the team.
I think that familiarity will play a role in where Lin ends up eventually. Right now he is more familiar with the Knicks coach, players, and system. It's working OK for him. He doesn't want to brave the unknown and play for a new team.
I don't imagine the Knicks keeping him for many years, even if they do re-sign him. The New York fan base is fickle, and the management keeps rotating. They won't stay loyal forever.
I think that eventually, Lin will go back to the Warriors via trade or free agency ... and retire there.
The knicks wants Jeremy cause he's a human cash machine for them.
DeleteIt turns out that Lin was TOO ATHLETIC to play at Stanford. Now Lin is playing in the right league.
ReplyDeleteThere are racial crazies out there who feel that Lin was overpaid at $700,000. Those same folks are going to hate Lin at $7 million. It won't matter as long Lin's future employer is satisfied with what Lin does for the money he's being paid.
Lin is doing the smartest thing he can, and that is stick to basketball. Let us and everybody else go crazy.
You hit the nail on the head. No matter what Jeremy does, he will always have critics now. That's a sign of success. People are naturally jealous of others successes. They want to pull them down to feel better about themselves. In the end, attention is attention, good or bad. You just have to focus on your own thing because everything else is just noise.
DeleteNemo
The "too athletic for him" statement was silly. I don't know if that was just ambiguous writing by Dee or if he really meant Lin was too scared to play for Stanford.
DeleteLin had just beaten Mater Dei and he played on the AAU circuit. I'm sure Lin was confident he could hang in the PAC-10.
My understanding is that Harvard was the only school to guarantee Lin playing time. He would have had to walk on at Stanford with no guarantee.
Lol, why wouldn't they say that about Stanford when ppl are already using his being w/o scholarship/ undrafted/ waived/ etc to justify ripping him for getting this contract "he does not deserve."
DeleteJLin will have to deal with this kinda crap forever. For.ever. He might as well factor this into his life-strategies. It's wise of him to choose to play for God & ngaf about the rest, some ppl will choose to never give him his due no matter what, anyway.
let's not forget this (explaining Lin's reluctance to play for a Stanford coach who deliberately lied to him):
Deletehttp://www.zagsblog.com/2012/02/10/coach-says-jeremy-lin-was-misled-by-stanford-coach/
shared on:
http://www.jeremylin.net/2012/02/great-ny-post-article-on-jeremy.html
If you look at Houston's recent off-season moves, they really set things up for Jeremy to be the MAIN attraction there. They blew up the core of the team because they didn't really sell. Right now it's mainly Kevin McHale's team. I don't like to bring up race or anything, but let's be honest, it does matter. Even if you didn't look at race as a factor, that doesn't mean others don't either. For example, when Jeremy was playing under Coach Smart or Woodson, it just seemed like these guys favored black players over other races.... this is for obvious reasons like getting "revenge" on the white man who has opressed them for so long, so they want to try to turn the tables. I understand. Thats why its not a good environment for Jeremy. They have their own struggles in mind. Coach D'Antoni luckily was not a coach that look at race at all when implementing his offense. I think Kevin McHale will be similar to D'Antoni. He is looking for players who are willing to buy into his game plan. Jeremy is a great learner and listener. Players like Lowry was similar to Melo where he thinks he's above the coaches and tries to do whatever he wants. That's why he's gone. Anyways, Houston is really setting things up to make it a Jeremy and Kevin McHale dynasty that can last over a decade if all goes according to plan. I look forward to it.
ReplyDeleteNemo
The Southwest division is extremely tough: Spurs, Mavericks, Thunder, Grizzlies, only the Hornets are considered "easy".
DeleteThe Atlantic division is also getting much tougher: Nets are close to trading for Dwight Howard, and the 76ers and Celtics are also good. Raptors are moving up. So the weakest Atlantic team is the Wizards.
I want Jeremy Lin ,to play in Houston too but what if the knicks match the Rockets offer? how can Jeremy leave the knicks then?
DeleteI think he would be better off in Houston. They play a more fundamental game w/out all the iso-play. There are virtually NO iso-players on the Rockets, everyone is a catch and shoot or cut to the basket type player.
DeleteRockets could have used Lowry w/ Scola or Buddinger for a sign and trade deal to the Knicks. But they already traded those pieces away.
The lack of iso players on the Rockets is a big point for Lin fitting with them because Lin is an iso player. He would instantly become the Rockets' go-to guy in iso situations.
DeleteThe Knicks have two iso players with Anthony and Lin, and a back-up iso option in JR Smith if he's resigned. That may seem crowded in the regular season, but in the post-season, having Anthony and Lin mesh as a dynamic duo would give the Knicks a fighting chance against the best teams like the Heat.
It's funny how the media has gotten everyone to believe the Knicks will match the offer. Te truth is they don't have the money to match it. If they do match, they would be strangled in terms of cap space. Add the fact that Mela and Stat truly don't want Jeremy to be on the team because they want the ball all to themselves makes this an easy outcome. Don't believe everythin the media reports. Even Woodson wants to focus on Melo which he knows Jeremy won't mesh well with him. They signed Kidd for a reason. Just wait and see. It's mainly all entertainment to get us all riled up.
DeleteNemo:
DeleteYour last statement was more ridiculous than your original post claiming that blacks are the ones trying to keep Lin down, blaming all of Lin's problems on Keith Smart and Mike Woodson (when D'Antoni tried to replace Lin with Deron Williams after keeping him on the bench all season, and when McHale and his GM were among those who released Lin, and that doesn't even speak of all the other coaches, GMs, scouts, etc. that didn't draft him, sign him, give him a college scholarship etc.)
Here is truth. The first 2 years of Lin's contract costs the Knicks cap nothing because they get an exception. It only becomes an issue in years 3 and 4. But get this: according to Yahoo, the worst case scenario would be having to pay $90 million in luxury taxes in those 2 years. $90 million when Lin has made the Knicks $300 million already.
And that is the worst case scenario. Which the Knicks don't have to face. Relieving their salary cap pressure is as simple as dumping Tyson Chandler's 4 year, $58 million deal.
"They signed Kidd for a reason."
OK, fine. You tell me the reason why they signed a 39 year old point guard whose minutes have been declining for years, and last year only played 28 minutes a game. To be the starting PG in an 82 game season? (And keep in mind ... the Knicks don't have a viable backup.)
Folks on this site are plenty riled up already, but it is not entertaining in the least.
Nemo just needs a better idea of how rights and exceptions are used to exceed the 'soft' salary cap.
Deletehttp://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
Actually, as the Knicks salary situation stands now, they'd only suffer the luxury tax hit in year 3. The Big 3 salaries are all off the books by 2015-16, when the Knicks will have Lin's team option. They theoretically could rebuild the roster from scratch in year 4.
Hater unknown, you are BORING US with your flaming.
DeleteWhy do you even bother posting here?
groan.
Unknown:
DeleteNo one knows what D'Antoni would have done with DWill. & what D'Antoni does do not preclude Woodson/ Smart/ Whoever doing the same, no? How is this an either/or situation? [So everybody FU, it's safe to say the league has collectively admitted they FU'd with this.]
Don't know about the racial thing with Woodson, but it's SOMETHING. Hard to ignore when the coach repeatedly goes to you in the 4th, & yet kept refusing to affirm you to start. [over TD, Bibby & BDiddy, FFS!] You see a hot-hand Landry getting benched so Jr can chuck to oblivion, & you don't know what to think.
Perhaps you have an explanation. Let's have it. Inquiring minds want to know.
[As for Keith Smart: Acie Law. Really?]
Funny someone would say that Jeremy Lin made the choice to go to Harvard due to the athleticism of Stanford. I would say the lack of a scholarship offer from Stanford was more of a factor than anything else.
ReplyDeleteYet - let's not forget that Stanford did blow away harvard 111-56 during Jeremy's sophomore year and he had no points against his home town club. jeremy did bounce back and had some good games following the Stanford game.
Funny side note though: Jeremy came back to the Bay Area during his senior year against Santa Clara and didn't exactly light it up against the Broncos either. It was a sellout crowd that night and I'm sure a few fans left thinking "what was the hype about"?
Lin had only 6 points in his senior year game vs. Santa Clara, because they threw double teams at him the whole night. So he passed the ball to the open man, and racked up 9 assists.
DeleteBeing a Bay area school, the home crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Lin.
I was able to watch Lin play in person when Harvard played at Columbia. Lin was well-known in the Ivy League. He coasted. He was good, but his play didn't stand out in a 'big fish in a small pond' way.
DeleteWhen Linsanity was blowing up, one of his Harvard teammates talked about this in an on-line article. He said Lin would fit in and just play his game most of the time and saved his extra gear for the big opponents.
On ESPN REPORT , The knicks says they will match any offer sheet for Jeremy Lin, even up to a billion dollar. cocky knicks.
ReplyDeleteI like Jeremy Lin go to the Rockets better. I think kevin mchale offense can bring back Linsanity 2.0. with the ball in Jeremy Lin ,hands a lot.
Jeremy don't need any mentor from Jason Kidd, Jeremy will be fine, he just need more playing time and experience. Just watch he'll be an all star if he goes to the Rockets.
Yeah, send Lin back to the team that cut him already, and which doesn't have the talent to compete in the absolutely loaded western conference, instead of an eastern conference where the Magic, Hawks and Pacers are falling apart, the Bulls are up in the air because Rose is hurt, the Celtics are a bunch of graybeards (which adding 34 year old Jason Terry won't help) and everybody else is barely a .500 team or worse.
DeleteKeep in mind: it was only Linsanity because the Knicks were WINNING.
Dragic went 13-13 as a starter last season, but that included losing 7 of 9 to end the season.
DeletePerception of success is calibrated by expectations. The Rockets failed to make the play-offs last season and their fans recognize them to be a rebuilding team - a rebuilding team without a clear plan or direction.
If Lin gives the Rockets an identity, leads them with a feisty entertaining style of play, upsets a few good teams along the way, and carries the team into the play-offs even if only as an 8th seed, that should be enough to satisfy fans for Lin's 1st full season as a starting PG.
An instant Nash/Suns-like turnaround (29 wins to 62 wins and the WCFs) would set Linsanity on fire. I don't think Lin needs to do that much to exceed the low expectations of Rockets fans.
Hater Unknown, you can hold the Rockets cutting of Lin against Lin and the world if you want.
DeleteJust remember that the NBA is a league where redemption lies around the corner in the form of a new multimillion dollar contract.
Lamar Odom is going back to LAC. Jason Kidd went back to Dallas. Kirk Hinrich is back to the Bulls. Even LeBron might go back to Cleveland one day.
Darel Morey admitted to screwing up by cutting Lin. Now he wants Lin back. Cry about that all you want.
Lin is a NBA PLAYER. No amount of flamig from you can change that.
I like the point with which Tommy Dee concluded his post:
ReplyDelete"To me, Lin’s smartest play is to take ownership of the team right away. He can’t be passive. He has to tell Mike Woodson that this is his team when he’s on the floor and that Melo, Amar’e et all need to follow suit."
The Knicks tried to sign Nash and then signed Kidd because they believe they need a respected veteran floor general at PG who will take charge, be the coach on the floor running Woodson's system, and bring order to the "clumsy" fitting Big 3. The Knicks want and need their PG to be the boss and conductor on the court. Lin needs to take it upon himself to be the PG the Knicks want and need.
Yes, and when that happens, Mike Woodson will say "No" and that is the end of it. No coach is going to allow a guy with less than half an NBA season - honestly less than 1/3 of a full NBA season - of experience dictate anything to him. And Melo and Stoudemire aren't going to follow Lin when they're more accomplished and proven players. Do you honestly think that Melo and Stoudemire believe that Lin is better than they are based on 27 games?
DeleteThe idea that Lin can step in and boss his coach and teammates around at this point in his career is totally ludicrous, and it is amazing that more people don't realize that.
Anthony tried and failed to play the point last season. He said he's uncomfortable in that role. Anthony, and Stoudemire more than Anthony, needs a PG to take charge on the floor. (Take charge to run plays properly for them, yes, but still to take charge.) It's not about Lin making a pecking order power play. It's about what the win-now Knicks need from their PG to even hope to contend for the championship.
DeleteThe team need at PG is urgent enough that the Knicks went after Steve Nash, arguably the best floor general PG of his generation. The failure to get him didn't solve the need. Ready or not, Lin will be the PG, and it'll be up to him to fill the team need the Knicks believed would require a Hall of Fame PG.
Kidd has the Hall of Fame stature and the head for it, on par with Nash, but unlike Nash, Kidd physically is running on fumes. Whatever he has left in the tank has to be carefully rationed for the post-season. Even if Kidd starts in order to set the tone, he won't play more than back-up minutes and likely will need Lin with him on the floor to do the PG things Kidd can't do anymore. Whatever Kidd contributes off the floor as a PG, as Dee said, this must be Lin's team when he’s on the floor.
I agree Lin can't just walk into Woodson's office, demand it, and it will be so. Lin has to do it on the floor. But in order for him to do it in the floor, his coach and teammates have to give him the power to do it. However short his resume, if Lin doesn't become the PG the Knicks need by the time they reach the play-offs, they're in trouble. I imagine Woodson, Anthony, and Stoudemire understand that.
Haters, the NBA is a fluid league where the ball goes where it needs to.
DeleteIf Jeremy Lin is a good player, the ball will find him.
End of story.
Jeff Green is reportedly getting 4 years, $36 million ($9 million per year), coming of surgery to repair an aortic aneurysm that caused him to miss the entire season.
ReplyDeleteTeams always overpay for height, I guess.
There are many factors to consider, any person who can express their views, Lin , reference, and focus is to choose which team are disappointed to another team.
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ReplyDeleteI don't think getting endorsements requires that he stays on NY. As long as he performs on the court at a high level he'll get endorsement deals. Not every athlete plays or lives in NY and high profile endorsements are not given to just NY athletes.
ReplyDeleteHe does not need to play in NY to thrive commercially. He's made his splash, been introduced to the world, & his more lucrative endorsements would probably come from Asia [& companies trying to penetrate the asian market.] His top searches are tiger economies, add to that China. Nobody would care if he's not on the Nyk, they are hyped only within the US. [NY exposure is more impt for domestic players, JLin is a bonafide international star.] I don't know if people understand the juggernaut that his marketing appeal is, there are ytube clips of him doing nothing but sitting on the bench, getting crazy hits. Fiction is being written about him. People who have never, ever watched a game are tuning in, buying merchandise. Grandmothers. This never happened with Yao Ming.
Delete[& He's so good with social media, the way he plays with the nerd persona, his brilliant post-op Q&A...]
& It's safe to say he'll be getting his endorsements more for plays like the Raptors 3pt game-winner that the likes of the Pacers game.
Lupica's comment was meant as a way to subtly pressure Melo and Woodson. He knows that Lin is a restricted free agent, meaning that he has no choice over his destination. If the Knicks match his contract, he stays a Knick, regardless of his wishes. The most that he can do is urge the Knicks not to match or request some sort of sign-and-trade, which the Knicks will simply ignore, as well they should.
ReplyDeleteAgain, Lupica has been a sportswriter for decades and knows what the term "restricted free agent" means, so his purpose in writing a column pretending otherwise was to prod Woodson into playing a different style and Melo into accepting. He even added a polemical tone to it by using a fan email that was selected for his own purposes, including the "street ball" and all but calling Melo selfish thrown in.
Lupica made it clear that he is a much bigger fan of Lin than he is of Melo. That is fine. But people who claim to be Knick fans - which is Lupica's posture - need to answer the question of what the Knicks will do for a point guard if Lin leaves. The Knicks don't have enough money left under the cap to go after anyone else but another Baron Davis/Mike Bibby type, and they have nothing to offer in a trade (except Melo).
So whatever Lin's best interests are, it is in the Knicks' best interest to hold onto Lin, and that is precisely what they are going to do. Again, Lupica - who knows much more about sports and the Knicks than I do - knows this already, so his only purpose in writing the article was to put pressure on Melo and Woodson.
Whatever PG alternatives there were at the start of free agency, the pool is drying up quickly.
DeleteWith the Kidd signing, I think they need another PG or a PG/combo. Kidd's MPG has to be carefully regulated. Kidd's and Lin's durability are question marks; both were hurt and missed a lot of games last season. Lin ideally will play a balanced, efficient 33-35 MPG, but with Kidd's need to play with a combo guard like Lin, Lin may be forced into a high-usage 38-40 MPG. Another PG or PG/combo is needed to relieve Lin of playing with Kidd or back up at PG if Lin plays with Kidd. Even with another PG or PG/combo to play with Kidd, if Kidd gets his wish to close games, he'll close them with Lin.
The Knicks are on a tight budget and have other team needs to fill. They'd prefer not to sign a 3rd PG and, instead, have someone like Douglas, Smith, or Shumpert be the 3rd PG. It remains to be seen whether Shumpert can play the combo role with Kidd, and a lot of season will go by before we can find out. Douglas, who is part of sign-and-trade rumors right now as a salary matcher, is a darkhorse for the role.
I disagree with Lupica's dismissal of iso as street ball. All the top scorers isolate. Lin isolates. Iso scorers are needed to win in the post-season. Lupica draws an either/or frame, when the right answer is 'all of the above'. The top teams have good ball/man movement and good iso scorers and playmakers.
Speaking of money, Steve Novak just got signed to a 4 year $15 million contract.
ReplyDeleteNovak has Jeremy Lin to thank. He averaged something like 3 ppg before Lin and 12 ppg after.
It's interesting to consider the Knick salary cap ramifications as the signings pile up. The Knicks are also pursuing Marcus Camby.
Bird rights or not, it's getting expensive to keep Jeremy Lin.
It is, but not more expensive, though. The shopping list hasn't changed. At this point, it's a matter of attaching names to line items on the budget and crossing them off the shopping list. Signing Nash was the only move that would have forced the Knicks to radically rearrange their budget.
DeleteKnicks don't have a small forward to backup Melo, or a starting shooting guard. I don't think JR Smith should be starting, and it doesn't sound like Knicks will bring back Landry.
ReplyDeleteKnicks should go after OJ Mayo and James Singleton.
That's assuming JR Smith is re-signed. The consensus seems to be he will re-sign, but instant-offense bench guards Nick Young signed for 6 per and Jamal Crawford signed for 5+ per. I believe the Knicks can only sign Smith for 2.8 per. We'll see.
DeleteThe Knicks need a big man, a wing, and a guard, preferably a combo guard who can shoot. They signed James 'Flight' White as a wing. The hope is he proves he's finally figured out how to translate his athleticism to basketball, like Gerald Green did with the Nets last season.
As the roster stands now, a Lin-Kidd starting backcourt is the best option.
J. Kidd is a veteran and all... But can he lock down Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, or Kobe? Knicks need younger legs to start, and Shumpert is not close to healthy.
DeleteIn the grand Knicks tradition of shipping out youngsters in order to get declining veterans, Marcus Camby is now a Knick. Out the door went Harrelson, Douglas, Jordan, and draft picks.
DeleteIt'll be interesting to see if Jeremy Lin eventually gets shipped out for a declining veteran SG to go beside Jason Kidd.
The Knicks have work left to do with their roster. Kidd doesn't defend PGs anymore. He's been defending SGs and SFs. Don't know if he still can.
DeleteK, if the Knicks match on Lin, he can't be traded for a year without his consent.
Any player in the NBA can be traded, Eric.
DeleteSometimes crazy things happen. Nene signed a humongous deal with Denver and then was supplanted by rookie Kenneth Faried. Now Nene is in Washington less than a year into his new contract.
What makes for the Knicks basketballwise is not the same as what they actually do. That's why the Knicks are usually a bad team.
Only if Lin consents to the trade, then yes for this year. That's just the rule on trading a player re-signed as a restricted free agent with a matched offer sheet. Hilario wasn't a restricted free agent. I believe the Dec 15 date applies as well. Who knows. Lin might consent or request a trade.
DeleteNext year, the Knicks can trade Lin without his consent.
The bottom line is that Lin CAN be traded anytime after he's signed.
DeleteAnd they lived ever after.
BTW, I guess I'm kind of late with this, but just to (belatedly) update the fan response, the posters over at postingandtoasting had a favorable response to the terms of Lin's pending contract:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/5/3139996/okay-now-jeremy-lin-has-an-offer
You know what?
ReplyDeleteI am SICK AND TIRED of haters flaming Lin just because somebody offered him a real NBA contract.
Lin got an offer from the Rockets. That indicates the Rocket's approval of Lin. The Knicks may match. That indicates the Knick's approval of Lin if that happens.
The terms of the contract are decided by Lin and whatever team pays him. As long as Lin lives up to his contract, that's good enough. Our opinions don't matter.
What I find distasteful is how haters come on this board and use Lin's contract as an excuse to flame Lin and his fans. They're ANGRY Lin is experiencing success and angrier that his fans are cheering him on. DESPICABLE.
This is a Jeremy Lin fansite where we try to be respectful of each other - until the haters hate.
Ugh, can't believe the Knicks traded Tony Douglas, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrelson, and the 2nd round picks for 2014 and 2015 to Houston for a 38 year old Marcus Camby. The Knicks keep trading away their young talent and getting older.
ReplyDeleteI've followed the Knicks for 3 decades and they always do this.
DeleteThat's why they're not only usually a lottery team, they're an OLD and OVERPAID lottery team.
In a twisted way, only a broken down team like the 2011-2012 Knicks could possibly have given Jeremy Lin a chance to play. Same thing in 2012-2013 and onwards if the Knicks sign him.
Idk, I guess the logic is that when these players get too old, and their careers really fall off ... they will choose retirement.
DeleteBut if you have to choose between getting paid millions or retiring, you'd choose to stay on the team for as long as you can. Then the team only has the option of buying out your contract or trading you to a team that would take your huge contract (Unlikely).
So for right now, Knicks are stuck with really no bench depth.
Landry, Jerome, Josh - 3 of Lin's good friends in Knicks are all leaving, sigh.....
DeleteSad thing is, Josh Harrelson had the most potential of those 3 guys .... and the only player who can post up. And the Knicks are still keeping Dan Gadzuric.
DeleteI would have traded for Chris Kaman. That guy is an excellent low post player who can back down on anybody: D-Howard, Duncan, Al Jefferson, Hibbert, etc.
Douglas needs a fresh start, though with the guard situation the way it is now, it's tempting to hold onto him. Losing Jordan is not a big deal. I wonder why the Knicks included Harrelson rather than Gadzuric. I thought the point of carrying Gadzuric's non-guaranteed contract was to use in a trade; maybe they have something else in the works. Adding 2 2nd round draft picks seems like over-kill.
DeleteIt's a lot to give up for Camby. 4+ mil per seems excessive, too. This has the feel of the Knicks over-hyping Camby to themselves in a front office echo chamber or another team (Nets?) strategically driving up the price.
I agree older and slower isn't a good direction. Who knows - maybe the Knicks are making an indirect payment to the Rockets for the Lin offer sheet.
I appreciate what Camby did for the Knicks in 1999, but I wasn't a fan of his even when he was in his prime. I understand, though, that with Stoudemire's poor defense and rebounding, the Knicks need a big who can do Chandler-type things when Chandler is out.
HY, Lin still has Novak, Shumpert, and Chandler to hang out. He should be talking shop with Kidd, anyway.
Lin doesn't have to kowtow to Kidd or anyone else, Eric.
DeleteLin only needs to follow the instructions of the coaching staff. Older players in the NBA don't necessarily mentor younger ones no matter what is said in the press.
This is the NBA where players climb over each other to get where they need to go.
I think Lin's in a win-win situation: Either he goes to Houston where he will LEAD with a familiar supporting cast, or he stays in the media capital of the world that will help his brand name flourish.
DeleteI'm waiting for the Knicks to sign John Starks for shooting guard and Anthony Mason as a backup to Amare. They'd fit in well with the geriatic Knicks like Camby and Kidd.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny is a lot of New York fans on TheKnicksBlog are happy about this Camby trade.
The names Kenyon Martin, Jerry Stackhouse, and Tracy McGrady have been floated.
DeleteKenyon Martin is still good, he played some solid backup minutes for the Clippers in the playoffs. If the 76ers amnesty Elton Brand, can the Knicks claim him ?
DeleteBrand is due 18 mil next season. The Knicks can't afford a claim. Maybe if he cleared waivers and became a free agent, but he'd have to agree to a massive pay cut to sign with the Knicks.
DeleteJ.R. Smith just agreed to re-sign with the Knicks. With the band getting back together, the team is rounding into shape nicely.
ReplyDeleteLin/Kidd
Smith/(Shumpert)
Anthony/Novak/White
Stoudemire
Chandler/Camby
Biggest remaining need is a combo guard who can shoot, play with Kidd, and back up at PG when Lin plays with Kidd. An active athletic combo F would be useful. Versatility is a strength. Lin can play the 1 and 2. Smith 2 and 3. Anthony 3 and 4. Stoudemire 4 and 5.
Say what you will...that's one heck of a team. Give them a preseason and training camp to work out the kinks and that could be title contender. Seriously.
DeleteSmith is a much better shooter than what he showed. Amare wasn't even in physical or mental shape for most of last year. Melo has lost weight and is working on moving without the ball. I'm going to miss those epic Lin-to-Landry alley-oops, though...
Those Lin-to-Landry alley-oops were impressive with how little space they needed. I give more credit to Lin's ability to throw the lob than Fields's ability to catch them, though.
DeleteWhich draws the spotlight to James 'Flight' White as a potential replacement for Fields as a Lin alley-oop partner. Right now, he's an afterthought deep bench guy. But the Knicks are short on wing players after Smith and Anthony until Shumpert returns. The Knicks will likely pick up another guard, but I suspect they're leaning toward a PG/SG type rather than an SG/SF type. As the roster stands, White has an opportunity for significant PT and to run with one of the best PGs in the NBA on the break in Lin. I'm sure Lin will throw a few up for White to test him out.
Can't wait for the season to begin!
ReplyDeleteModest prediction: Lin will get his 1st triple-double next season.
DeleteThe trade of Knicks players to Houston can be viewed as somewhat a positive thing for Lin. If Lin signs with Houston, he will have familiar faces that may follow Lin's lead. However, if Lin stays in NY, he keeps his large fan base in the media capital. Win-Win for Lin!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if anyone can have an opinion on this forum anymore, as my comments about Lin's options (Houston vs. NY) keep getting deleted.
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ReplyDeleteI still don't like the Camby trade, its hard to find decent 7 footers in the league, but give away 2 young bigs and a Jason Terry type shooting guard, and 2 years draft picks for Camby is overpaying. Sounds like the Rockets used Miami as leverage to get the best deal for an old player they didn't need. Knicks always overpay.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking the knicks need a clutch shooting guard like Lou Williams, or Marco Belinelli. And a scrappy forward like Lou Amundson.
Camby was unrestricted, which normally would mean the Knicks could sign him outright. However, my understanding of the Knicks cap situation is that in order to sign Kidd and Camby, the Knicks needed to do a sign-and-trade for either one and use the MLE for the other one. The Knicks salary matchers weren't enough to sign and trade for both. I believe using a sign-and-trade for one of the vets also preserved a way to add one more player at more than a minimum salary.
DeleteHarrelson (760K), Jordan (760K), Douglas (2 mil), and Gadzuric (1.4 mil non-guaranteed) were the designated salary matchers. The best player of the 4 is open to debate. I'll say it's Harrelson with a nod to Douglas's potential to be better if can pull off a do-over on his career.
As a salary matcher in a trade, though, Gadzuric's non-guaranteed contract is the most valuable. I thought maybe the Knicks would hang onto Harrelson by using Gadzuric's contract. However, Grunwald may be hanging onto Gadzuric to use in a trade.
The questions are, why use so much of the salary matchers (except Gadzuric) on Camby, which leads to the next question: why the higher-than-expected salary for Camby? Finally, why the 2 2nd-round draft picks?
My guess is the Mavs turned down a sign-and-trade for Kidd, which forced the Knicks to sign him outright. The Rockets then knew the Knicks had to sign-and-trade for Camby, which gave them leverage to negotiate for more pieces in a trade and gave Camby more leverage to negotiate a higher salary for his agreement. It's possible the Rockets asked for Gadzuric and the price for keeping Gadzuric's contract was the 2 2nd rounders.
The Rockets did well dealing away a player who was an unrestricted free agent and leaving the team anyway.
I think James Dolan is "casting" the Knicks' team, and not building a basketball team. He likes recognizable names because he is putting on a show for the next season to sell tickets, and the MSG brand. I think basketball and team chemistry are the last thing on his mind.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, I believe Jeremy will do well in any environment and find ways to win games and to make his teammates better. I am looking forward to see him play again, and I am praying for no injuries. Go Jeremy!
I think Grunwald is a decent GM, but he's being hamstrung by the owner, Dolan, and his fetish for huge contract "mega-stars" who are overpaid.
DeleteNow the only options the GM has is to look for scraps to build a team. There's not many NBA players who are willing to sign a veteran minimum contract to play for the Knicks. They might take less money to play for the Heat, Celtics, Lakers or other championship caliber team ... but with the Knicks they will always ask for more than they are ever going to be worth.
Other teams can offer good free agents a chance for a championship ring, legendary coaches, good team chemistry, etc. Knicks can only offer them a big salary.
Knicks need to find a way to dump at least one of their big $20 million salary cap hogs. Sooner they do this, the better the team will be.
If the Knicks could move Stoudemire, I'm sure they would.
DeleteI don't think the Knicks have a particular disadvantage compared to other capped out teams as far as attracting role players with the lower end salary options. The Knicks added Kidd at the taxpayer MLE, which is about the same amount he was expected to sign with the Mavs. The Heat added Ray Allen with their taxpayer MLE. That's a wash.
The Knicks did overpay for Camby, which can come back and bite them if an extra million is the difference in a trade. (The Knicks salary-matching trade assets could have brought back about 6 and Camby was estimated to be worth 3, but they ended up paying about 4 for him.)
Other than overpaying Camby, the Knicks have been doing okay this off-season. Lin, of course. They re-signed their own prized free agents, JR Smith and Novak. Smith is a bargain at 2.8.
After the July 11 contracts, the secondary market will begin. Still a lot of FAs plus movable players on rosters. I don't know what Gadzuric's non-guaranteed contract can buy the Knicks, but it's a trade chip at least.
If the Knicks are wholly passive, there will still be serviceable players left over. When the salary is fixed, better to play for a contender than a contender, plus the back-up G and F for the Knicks look like rotation roles rather than bench filler.
At worst, the Knicks should be able to bring back Bibby and Jeffries. Who knows. The Knicks might shock everyone by matching on Fields.
* better to play for a contender than a NON-contender
DeleteMiami is even more capped out than the Knicks at this point. Houston Rockets had no real leverage in the deal. And Camby is not worth that much.
DeleteKnicks GM made a big mistake giving away too much for a 38 year old 7-footer with no post up game. I think they got "tunnel vision" with Camby's history with the Knicks, and didn't look to see what big man they could get instead for cheaper like Chris Kaman, Lou Amundson, Kenyon Martin, etc.
The Knicks' desire for Camby gave the Rockets leverage. If I'm right about the Mavs rejecting a sign-and-trade for Kidd, then the Rockets leverage was, one, a sign-and-trade was the only way for the Knicks to sign Camby, and two, the Rockets had nothing to lose while the Knicks had Camby to lose.
DeleteMore, the Knicks pieces were not valuable enough for the Rockets to regret leaving on the table. In the context of the Rockets current roster, which of the 3 players have significant basketball value for the Rockets? Will Jordan ever be a legit NBA C? 2nd rounder Harrelson has promise, but he gets lost in the Rockets' glut of young 1st round Fs. Maybe Douglas as a reclamation project.
If the Rockets viewed the Knicks players as salary matchers only, then the basketball value incentive for the Rockets was the 2 draft picks.
I prefer Martin over Camby and would have liked a Kidd-Martin reunion. But the Knicks wanted a mobile defender-rebounder-shotblocker C who could step in for Chandler with little drop-off on D. Camby was still productive last season. When Cs lose their athleticism, though, it can go all of a sudden, so we'll see.
There is a better market for hustle Fs than mobile defender-rebounder-shotblocker Cs, and there should be 1 or 2 the Knicks can sign cheap. I wonder, though, whether the Knicks could have bought a better PG/SG or wing with 3 mil in trade assets.
I saw an article on the World Wide Leader that best sums up the Camby trade and the Knicks in general: "Knicks get older, more expensive"
Delete"The Knicks are assembling an old, expensive team that looks good -- but not great -- on paper and that has nothing but downside in its future. Five years ago, the group that the Knicks have assembled would have been a contender. But players age, get injured and lose athleticism. It's a fact of life that New York never seems to learn."
Doh!
The Doolittle piece, right? His premise is based on a sound generalization but he overblows the narrative with Camby and Kidd. The only way Doolittle's article holds together is if Kidd plays over Lin and Camby plays over Chandler.
DeleteGenerally, trading young for near-retirement old isn't a good policy. But the Knicks aren't giving up prized prospects for fading veterans. Douglas, who should be the type of back-up combo G the Knicks could use, has fallen out of the Knicks rotation. Jordan is a scrub. Harrelson is promising, but 2nd-round role player promising, not overlooked-in-the-2nd-round promising. Whether for Nash, Camby, or another higher-level player, they were designated to leave the team in a trade as salary matchers.
Kidd and Camby aren't coming in as high-priced saviors. Kidd is making 3 per as Lin's back-up. Camby is making 4+ per as Chandler's back-up. Both their contracts will expire with the Big 3's contracts, if not sooner (Camby only has 2 years guaranteed).
The core of the team is young or in their prime. Lin and Shumpert are young. Smith at 26 straddles the line. Novak, Anthony, Stoudemire, and Chandler, all late 20s, are in their prime.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8154390/sources-portland-trail-blazers-sign-roy-hibbert-offer-sheet
ReplyDeleteThis is a strange development (Blazers won't sign Hibbert to an offer sheet).
Since nothing can be official until July 11th I wonder If there will be a secret team lurking behind the scenes that offers Lin a max 40million/4yr backloaded deal before midnight tonight to put more financial pressure on the Knicks to match??? A max deal would be the only way I can see Jeremy playing for another team next year.
Daryl Morey would be a scary genius if he upped Houston's offer sheet to 36-40M at the very last minute (just to make NY panic) and then swung a trade for Dwight Howard immediately afterward.
DeleteD-12 and Linsanity in Houston? Holy moly...talk about revitalizing the franchise.
Too bad it ain't gonna happen.
Word is Rockets have jumped into the Howard sweepstakes.
DeleteThe Rockets cap space should be enough not to have to clear much room, but depending on the magnitude of the deal (eg, Howard + Turkoglu's contract), the Rockets could be forced to jettison Lin's offer to clear out salary space. That would be like history repeating itself with the Warriors-DeAndre Jordan and Rockets-Dalembert.
It would suck if Lin was forced to settle for 4/24 from the Knicks, assuming the Knicks give their max offer.
Lin already signed on the offer sheet, I don't think they can withdraw it until after the Knicks match their salary. I could be wrong, idk. But the offer sheet is what Lin's salary will be from here on out.
DeleteYeah, this cap stuff is confusing. From what I gather, a formal offer isn't binding like a contract and can be withdrawn, but it still carries real weight. How much of the weight is custom and how much is CBA rules, I don't know.
DeleteAccording to the CBA, a formal offer is legitimate only if it fits in the salary cap or under an exception. It must be accounted for provisionally before it's signed. That means if Lin has a standing offer from the Rockets, they would still have to account for the offered salary as though it was a signed contract while negotiating a deal for Howard. That's what I got from the Blazers decision to rescind their max offer to Hibbert.
I keep hearing on ESPN that Chris Paul will not sign an extension with the Clippers, and that his ultimate destination is New York Knicks. When asked about that, Carmelo seems to like the idea.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what to believe. I do see a scenario where Knicks make another ill advised "blockbuster" trade, giving up half the team again for a max contract Chris Paul. Likely to include many pieces, possibly even Jeremy Lin going to L.A.
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DeleteLob City with Lin at PG? That could work.
DeleteNo Lob City with Lin if a multiteam trade is executed.
DeleteOf course, it really doesn't matter where Lin ends up. He can fit into any system and play great for any team.
Jeremy Lin is the only tangible asset that other teams would want to trade for. The Clippers would go for that deal if they fail to go deep in the playoffs this season. Donald Sterling can make piles of money off of Lin's popularity overseas, while staying way under the salary cap with his team. It's always been about the money for Sterling.
ReplyDeleteAlso, by this time next year, Lin will have the body of work, with a full regular season and post-season, that he didn't have this off-season. Sterling will know if he's trading an established 1st-team NBA star for an established rising star.
Delete"Jeremy Lin surprised NY Knicks didn't offer him contract before Houston Rockets offer sheet: source"
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeremy-lin-surprised-ny-knicks-offer-contract-houston-rockets-offer-sheet-source-article-1.1111843#ixzz20INfhAJq
They were probably waiting on the Steve Nash situation. No other explanation why they wouldn't offer at least a minimum cap friendly contract.
DeleteWow, why am I not surprised. More 'Lin owes the Knicks' bs. More 'he should be grateful, don't get too uppity' crap.
DeleteThe Chris Paul countdown now begins.
DeleteWe'll see how many seasons Jeremy Lin actually plays in NY before being included in a trade package for Chris Paul.
#1j:
ReplyDelete"Most players, important players, RFA players included, are at least offered what their own organization can offer..... Token show of respect."
Your experience following pro team sports differs from mine. The Knicks did what was routine for RFAs - let someone else make the first offer - and even more so for RFAs that no one has any idea what other teams are willing to pay for the guy. If your offer to your RFA is more than what other teams would have offered, you cost yourself millions absolutely no reason. If you offer less to your RFA than other teams would have offered, the player will think that you lowballed him and tried to depress his value. That said, I agree with you that the article was a total hatchet job on Lin, and I also believe that the Knicks are the source behind it.
KHuang:
ReplyDelete"The Chris Paul countdown now begins. We'll see how many seasons Jeremy Lin actually plays in NY before being included in a trade package for Chris Paul."
Other than Lin, I don't think that the Knicks have anybody that the Clippers should need or want. Even the value of Melo and Stoudemire would be devalued with the Clippers because they already have Blake Griffin. They'd basically just be adding contracts to say that they got something in return for Paul. They could do better for themselves by dealing Paul to a team that has pieces that they can actually use. If Paul refuses to be traded to any team but New York, then they would be better off letting him walk and preserving their cap space.
Also, while Melo may want Chris Paul, I don't see how acquiring Paul via makes the Knicks better. While right now the Knicks have a good starting 5, by adding Paul the team would just basically be Paul and Melo. That doesn't beat the Heat, and it may not even get them in the top 3 or 4 of the eastern conference. Also, Melo would be trading one 20 points per game scorer at PG for another. Melo might respect Paul more than he does Lin, but Woodson would also, making it tougher for Melo to get his way.
Doesn't make any sense for the Knicks, Clippers or Paul. Also, whether the Clippers would be a better situation for Lin than the Knicks is debatable.
All of those are good points unknown. If you were standing up in class and reading your paper, I'd give you an A minus.
DeleteYou forgot one thing, though. The Knicks don't make LOGICAL decisions.
Chris Paul has wanted to play with Carmelo Anthony for a few years now. He won't extend with the Clippers. So it's logical to imagine that Chris Paul might want to join the team that Carmelo Anthony actually plays for.
The Knicks will go for whatever "superstar" talent they can get, no matter the price and no matter the condition. THAT is logic talking.
A good article defending Lin on manufactured "Lintroversy"
ReplyDeletehttp://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/schmeelk-the-new-lintroversy-is-manufactured/#.T_8NCHwj_AE.twitter
A good article defending Lin on manufactured "Lintroversy"
ReplyDeletehttp://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/schmeelk-the-new-lintroversy-is-manufactured/#.T_8NCHwj_AE.twitter