Wednesday, July 18, 2012

The WSJ on some Asian American Fans' Reaction to JLin's Departure

Here's the link.  What do you think?


  1. SPIKE'S Msg to the Dolans (Re: JEREMY LIN)

    1. wait, that was a fake Spike right? It looked pretty real, until I read the video description. lol

  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

  3. I think Spike Lee speaks for all true Knicks Fans of NYK.

  4. The Knicks will always hold a special place in my heart for drafting Wat Misaka and giving Jeremy Lin a chance. Linsanity wasn't just a three week period of great basketball. It was the culmination of various story lines for both Jeremy Lin and the Asian American community. Great stories need great heroes and GREAT VILLAINS. Despite letting Lin go, I thank the Knicks for a memory I'll cherish for the rest of my life.

    1. Perfect storm.

      I wonder, though, if Stoudemire and, in particular, Anthony had not been absent during that stretch, how things would have been different with Lin as the starter. Maybe no Linsanity, but maybe Lin wouldn't have gotten hurt from wear and tear, and he would played through the season and post-season. Given that sample size and missing post-season sample are the main things held against him, what difference would finishing the season have made?

  5. I have a feeling Spike Lee will make an epic JLIN documentary.

  6. I feel like the only die-hard Lin fan who actually agrees with the Knicks decision.

    As great as Jeremy is, he's NOT a good fit on a Melo and Amare-centric team. Would a Knicks team centered around Lin, Chandler, and a glue guy SF (like Iguodala or Deng) be better? Of course. But the Knicks invested a ton of money in Melo and Amare...which means they're stuck that way for the next 2-3 years.

    A slightly younger Kidd would actually be perfect for the Knicks. Even 39 yr old Kidd could be solid. And if Felton gets back in shape, he can run the pick and roll well enough to keep defenses honest.

    If and when Jeremy becomes a bona fide elite PG in Houston, I'm sure the Knicks will offer a max contract to get him back in 2015.

    1. That said, if and when Jeremy becomes an elite PG in Houston...I'm 99.99% sure he'll end up staying there.

    2. No, I and a lot of others here agree with you too.

      The Knicks did the right thing by letting Lin go. Peer pressure is very high in NY and thus it's easier to lose with veterans than to win with youngsters.

      Knick fans are not impatient, but the Knicks franchise is. They've had so little playofd success to show for their gargantuan spending. They are very risk averse, so they consider Lin a risk.

      Here's how the Knicks think. They got rid of Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas because they were deemed "too old". Now they have reacquired those two because they're "proven veterans" even though they're even older now.

      Jeremy Lin is perceived by the Knicks to be a bust in waiting. Thus they'd prefer "proven" guys like Kidd and Felton. You see that mentality in people that post here that are also Knick fans, unlike myself.

    3. Correction: a SMALL MINORITY of Knick fans, unlike myself.

      Most Knick fans adore Lin and are unhappy that he's gone.

    4. First, it's hard to say what an Anthony and Stoudemire-centered offense is, hence the Phil Jackson "clumsy" criticism. Stoudemire's pick and roll/pop game should fit with Lin's pick and roll game. Except Stoudemire keeps running into Anthony in the mid-range and into Chandler in the paint.

      The prevalent view for next season is the offense will center on Anthony without any clear idea where that leaves Stoudemire and Chandler.

      I believe, with Lin, Woodson would have built upon the hybrid offense he used last season before all the injuries set in. Lin's versatility as an iso scorer, pick and roll, and off-the-ball would have been a terrific fit across the range of Woodson's hybrid offense.

      Moreover, if and when the "clumsy" fitting Big 3 caused the offense to break down, then the Knicks iso scorers would take over. The Knicks would have only had 2 elite iso scorers: Anthony and Lin. Anthony is option A, but Lin is the primary ball-handler, so call him option A1. Anthony would have got his; Lin would have got his, too.

      So, if Lin had stayed, he would have improved his PG skills running Woodson's hybrid offense and found plenty of scoring opportunities with his versatile SG/combo game.

    5. Add: Lin is a better fit with the Knicks than Felton is.

    6. I am a life time Knicks fan and I'm happy to see Jeremy going to Houston. He just does not deserve to be treated like a greedy person who only cares about "the money." Who's the one that proclaimed to match any offer up to one billion? We all know Jeremy was dying to play on the select team and probably would had signed a much smaller contract at the start of the free agency with the knicks so he could practice with the select team. Right now he's got an offer from Houston and Melo/JR can't sleep over it? I gotta thank Dolan for NOT matching that!

      I guess I've grown into a much bigger Jeremy fan than a Knicks one.

  7. help me out here fellas nothing else can make sense and i am just spent thinking about this but i think i need to do this to get over the sadness in NYC that linsanity is not happening this fall...

    no other explanation makes sense to me except for this:
    carmelo just did not want lin on the knicks this year. steals his thunder and resents his extreme popularity with the fans.

    ok dolan's dumb but he's dumb the other way (over-spending) not under - so i'm not buying the budget argument

    i absolutely do not buy the "lin swindle" argument, since this was a straightforward negotiation a retarded monkey could run

    it was either - melo/locker room jealousy or something i heard/read today: knicks strategically just wanting veterans in a desperate year and seeing lin as a non-veteran risk. and, for a fraction of the cost, non-fat felton is a wash so despite backlash, lin can go. woodson would be to blame here - he just wants veterans.

    1. Lin did what he was supposed to do as a restricted free agent. He didn't swindle anyone. There's a floating story, based on nothing as far as I can tell, that Lin betrayed the Knicks trust with insider info (that was already public) and somehow bullied an otherwise passive Rockets front office into dramatically raising an offer they had agreed on just a week earlier. The story doesn't hold together and Morey has already said the Rockets initiated the re-negotiation.

      The Knicks want sure-thing veterans to an extreme, but they also wanted Lin at 4/28 (3/20). As far as Anthony's jealousy, I guess it was cool at 4/28 and only ignited at 3/25?

      Right now, the blame arrow is pointing at dumb Dolan. More specifically, angry dumb Dolan for whom rejecting Lin is not about the money. The Knicks will be paying luxury taxes in year 3 with or without Lin, and certainly would have been paying them with the 3rd year 9 mil salary in the 1st offer.


    Whoa, check out the Rockets website and team store. They already have all this new merchandise designed and up for sale... WHICH tells me, they most have known he was going to Houston for a while now. LOL

    I'm liking the shirt with the Chinese character used for Jeremy's family name. I might get that!

    1. Looks like he got his NUMBER 7 back! Ha Ha!

  9. Is Madison Square Garden already paying for Lin’s departure?

  10. don`t think i saw anybody post this yet. interview of kevin mchale about jeremy lin and summer league players.

  11. Excellent article by Josh Levin in Slate titled "The Knicks are even dumber than you think" and here's the link and an excerpt:

    A business school could design a whole year’s curriculum around the Knicks’ cascade of self-harm. It’s as if the team bought a valuable antique rifle for $1 at a flea market, shot themselves in the foot while fooling around with it, then chose to shoot themselves in the head rather than get the foot amputated. Last year, Jeremy Lin showed how joyous it can be to watch someone prove game after game that every team made a mistake. This July, the Knicks have shown that it’s a lot less fun when it’s just one team that keeps on screwing up.

  12. Eric, just to follow up on the communication issue revealed in the SI article.

    Perhaps someday we would learn the behind-the-screen story of how Daryl Morey made two chess moves that made the Knicks gave up a valuable asset in Lin for nothing. I believe he had two offers in mind all along but he knew the Knicks could still match it. And most importantly, he might know something about Dolan's psyche to possibly balk at the thought of Jeremy's "betrayal" forcing the Knicks to pay more luxury tax.

    One thing that we agreed is the lack of communication from the Knicks front office, which is the opposite of Houston's approach to apologize repeatedly to Lin. Houston made Jeremy feel wanted as an important piece of puzzle in Houston but the Knicks did not do enough. And Houston knew Jeremy could not possibly decline to sign the 2nd offer out of loyalty to Knicks. Who would do that in their right mind?

    The Knicks did not play the game the right way by opening their cards (i.e. matching up to $1B, etc.) to deter other NBA teams to make an offer and overspending on other free-agents. And they had failure to communicate to Jeremy in general.

    Houston played the chess game perfectly by forcing the Knicks to call their bluff. In chess terms, Houston thought of Lin as their 'queen' but NY only regarded Lin as a 'knight' so the Knicks balked.

    1. If Morey knowingly played on Dolan's temper, that's skilz indeed.

      I thought about the communication issue. Is it normal for teams to communicate with their FAs? For example, when RFA Eric Gordon signed the max with the Suns and publicly said the Hornets should not match, that was drama, but did he and the Hornets talk about it? As far as I know, they didn't talk at all and the Hornets simply matched the offer.

      So not communicating with free agents may just be normal.

      The Knicks and Lin didn't need to communicate with each other. The Knicks weren't recruiting nor negotiating with him. (Which makes the notion Lin needed to inform the 3rd party Knicks about the 2nd offer a silly one.) The Knicks' role was simply to match or decline whatever the Rockets offered to Lin. Apparently, Lin wanted to return to the Knicks.

      In hindsight, the only fruit of communication would be warning Lin about the Knicks matching ceiling. That's probably not the sort of info teams share with their FAs anyway, especially not teams saying they'll match anything in public. It hasn't been established the Knicks actually had a matching ceiling before Dolan got angry. And if Lin knew about one, it's not implied in the SI article Lin would have done anything differently (the part about the 2nd offer being the only offer at that time).

      Isola has said he thinks Dolan would have matched a 3/25 1st offer, which implies there was no bluff, just angry dumb Dolan. So who knows.

    2. I see that you considered the communication issue from the Knicks' perspective that it is business-as-usual, especially in the case of Hornets matching the Suns one-on-only offer for disgruntled Eric Gordon.

      But I have to agree that if it's true that Dolan would have matched a 3/25 1st offer, not a 3/25 2nd offer, then Morey is a true genius for exploiting Dolan's anger to let Lin go for nothing. Dolan should have done what Hornets did to Eric Gordon, which is to match the offer and trade him later for some valuable assets.

      The communication issue was what caused Jeremy to not feel as wanted in NY.
      But Houston was fully responsible to make the 2nd offer to Jeremy because they knew the Knicks would have no problem matching the 1st offer that many considered as 'gift' to the Knicks because it's not as 'poisoned-pill'. Can Jeremy be blamed for signing the 2nd offer? Even Dolan would have signed it if he were in Jeremy's shoes.

      At this point, everyone pretty much agreed that Dolan felt 'slighted', got angry, blinked and blew this deal. I wonder if the Suns GM, Lon Babby, started wondering if he should have pulled a 'Morey' to snatch Eric Gordon from the Hornets.

      We might not know all the details now but to me it seems like Morey pulled a strategy from Sun Tzu's "Art of War" to snatch Jeremy from the Knicks. Truly genius! Let's see if other NBA GMs will pull the same move.

    3. "The communication issue was what caused Jeremy to not feel as wanted in NY."

      If the lack of communication is normal in free agency, then Lin wouldn't have been bothered by it. He's a pro and he has a very experienced agent who would have explained the customs of free agency. From the SI article, it seems like Lin felt he was on course to return to the Knicks, until he wasn't.

      When Woodson made his assurance the Knicks would match, which apparently is an extraordinary admission in a free agency, I'm sure Lin felt wanted.

      But after the 2nd offer, when Woodson backed off that assurance, Grunwald was circumspect, and the Knicks traded for Felton, he saw the writing on the wall.

      Lin did nothing wrong by signing the 2nd offer. The notion that 15 mil in the 3rd year was a deal-killer for the Knicks emerged only after he signed it.

    4. IN REGARDS TO ERIC GORDON - Much less details on his contract negotiation in the press for us to read. If there wasn't (which I highly, highly doubt) much off season communication, there didn't need to be as much.

      At least publicly, the Hornets have always been positive and committed to their creaky, oft-injured, new max contract man.

      They made it clear from the start of their relationship. At least publicly, the Hornets have always maintained, "Eric Gordon, you are our future, we think you are worth max contract money. We're gonna build a team around you. You are not going to get these media reports about any double talk and backpedaling from in regards to your future here. Now, everyone, along with seeing us build a roster built around Eric, watch us back up our money claims and give you MAX contract money to fend everyone off our man."

  13. Nice insightful article about Dolan's mindset. Great poker reference.

    1. "Here's how Jim Dolan would play pocket aces in a game of Texas hold 'em:

      Sweet! Pocket aces! Come on, JD, don't mess this up. … Why is this asshole dealer looking at me like that and why is that dude in the cowboy hat smiling? Oh man, I think he knows. … Nah, he doesn't know, he's so stupid with his stupid hat and his stupid accent. Shit. He does know. Maybe I should call Isiah? Nah, cause if they see me calling Isiah, they'll all laugh. Play it cool, Jimmy. What would be the only thing they'd never expect from you? What would Isiah do? WWID? Fold, Jimmy, fold!

      DOLAN: I fold.
      DEALER: Sir, it's not your turn to act.
      DOLAN: Don't tell me what to do.
      MAN IN HAT: Folded aces again, huh?
      DOLAN: It was the right move, dickface.

      Again, I ask: Why does anyone care how Jim Dolan spends his money? Unless Dolan releases MSG's annual earnings report with a manual and a DVD that explain exactly how much more expensive tickets will be if the Knicks sign Jeremy Lin, none of us should speculate ourselves into agreeing with Jim Dolan."

  14. wow new yorkers...real class:

    Knicks fans bombard Lin’s Facebook with profane, racist comments

  15. In any city, country or race, there are people who want to post hateful stuff on internet. Internet has allowed some people who are tools to show they can't think independently. No need to group the entire Knicks fans. I traveled various places, and if you judged the country by what is posted on the internet, you would think the entire human race is messed up.

  16. One question: Do you guys think Houston should pull the trade for Dwight or Bynum? On one hand, I think Lin plus either one of them could become a major playoffs contender but then Lin would certainly play second fiddle in this scenario. On the other hand, I am curious to see how Lin could handle being the main man on a team full of youngsters, especially in the backcourt with Jeremy Lamb who would certainly be dealt if there was a trade for Dwight or Bynum. It would be very entertaining to watch Lin and the young guns grow together although probably the team wouldn't win as much from the start. I am pretty torn in either scenario. What do you guys think?

    1. I wouldn't do it.

      Though there aren't many examples of superstars being traded to teams merely "renting" them, the thought of getting a noncommital Howard or Bynum rubs me the wrong way.

    2. Dwight said no but Bynum said he would re-sign with Houston if dealt there though. So who is better to put around Lin, Bynum or Lamb + Parsons + youngsters? I think Lin somewhat really needs a center to finish his passes and protect the rim on D ala Tyson Chandler or it could be ugly. But dealing Lamb, Parsons etc is pretty hard as I think they could be great running mates next to Lin.

    3. I like Andrew Bynum a lot and think that he's more important to the Lakers on the court than Kobe Bryant is.

      He's worth every guy being traded, but parting with Lamb would be tough.

    4. I like seeing more of Eric's flip flops on this page. The flip flops run deep.

      I like how he praises with some speculatory defense of Lin here though. Then I remember his postings harping and speculating negatively about the same Lin actions.

      Truly, a spinning point of view. Fun ride sometimes.

      I've come to two conclusions:

      1. He's just trolling, which I hope and believe, even if he is just truly a Lin hater. The amount and frequency of the flip flopping... it has to be #1.

      2. OR... I feel bad that he is really like this.

  17. From the Editor of Knicks blog

    I just talked to someone

    who made it sound like it was definitely the Rockets who re-initiated, for what its worth.


    I did just kinda get some lowdown

    It does sound like Dolan (and some management) were extremely pissed that Houston upped the offer without telling them (apparently that’s common courtesy). And it does sound like they decided pretty quickly that they weren’t gonna match, but there were people in the office trying to sway Dolan and friends at the last second. Grunwald even went out and tried to gauge interest around the league in Lin to convince Dolan that he’d be tradeable.

    It’s soooo frustrating.


    I think everyone was very, very angry about the the Rockets upping the reported offer without a heads-up. I didn’t know this, but that’s apparently considered bad etiquette.

    (Still, get over it, gumps.)

  18. Knicks looking for a Yuan Huang's reason to calm the emotions of New Yorkers, responsibility to jLin?



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