So far, the Knicks have made some nice improvements to their roster. Camby will be a great backup to Chandler, and at times, paired together to really protect the rim and get their fast break triggered. Kidd is one of the best and smartest point guards of all time. He's old and much slower now but he still knows how to run an offense and lead players to make the right passes. Critical to NY offense is getting Carmelo to move the ball instead of going one on one too much. He has great skills and has court vision ... it's more about the desire to pass and trust his teammates. If he can't do that for Jason Kidd, then all his critics are right. If the Knicks play the right way, Jeremy will thrive in an open, fast-paced, team oriented style of play as he did when Amare and Carmelo were out last year.
Signing back Novak and JR Smith are good moves, and the return of Shumpert from injury will be important They also need Amare to bounce back from both physical and personal difficulties. Hopefully, the Knicks will also re-sign Landry Fields regardless of the luxury tax implications. It's not my money and I don't see any other shooting guard free agents better than Fields. Plus, he is a great team chemistry player.
The Knicks could surprise and I think they'll be a better team than last year. Certainly, they'll be exciting if they can stay healthy.
I don't think Lin can thrive with Melo. Their games clash too much. Lin is best running pick and roll, while Melo likes to ISO from the elbow/free throw line extended. Woodson will tailor the offense around Melo, not Lin.
ReplyDeleteKidd will mesh better with Melo imo. Kidd at this point in his career is a spot up shooter and can stay out of Melo's way.
It would've been better for Jeremy if NY didn't match Houston's offer, but we all know NY will match, so too bad so sad.
Lin will be the starting PG, so the ball will be in his hands. He will also be the best PG that Melo has ever played with, and the best PG that Woodson has ever had as a head coach.
DeleteDown the stretch last season, Woodson certainly didn't sound like he was going to tailor the offense around Melo. Instead, he stated how much regretted how Melo, Stoudemire and Lin didn't play well together and how it was his job to fix it (comments that were taken as being a shot at Lin). He also stated that he would retain some elements of D'Antoni's system. Also, he told Melo to lose weight. If Melo were to remain an iso player, it would have been in his interests to remain one of the bigger SFs in the league ... so big that he was able to be effective playing PF when Stoudemire was out. But his telling Melo to lose weight tends to make me think that he wants Melo to play more on the wing and run the court more, to be more of a traditional SF.
The thing to remember is that Lin can still be an all-star PG with Melo being the main guy. Melo is going to get his points either way. Lin's job will be to keep everyone else - primarily Stoudemire and also guys like Chandler, Smith/Shumpert and the reserves - involved.
The winning formula in the play-offs is iso with ball movement. Blogging Being is right: Anthony should keeping up his scoring game, but also do a better job moving the ball.
DeleteLin should do fine with Iso-Melo because Lin will be the beneficiary of kick-outs and swing passes. While Lin's PG game needs improvement, his SG game is already elite. The offense running through Anthony means Lin effectively becomes an SG. Anthony can't and doesn't take every shot. He'll kick it out to whoever is open. Lin is skilled off the ball and knows how to get open. When Lin catches the ball in a creative scoring situation, and presented with a defense caught rotating off Anthony, his natural instinctive scorer will be a kid in a candy store.
Don't forget, Lin is a heavy iso scorer, too. So were finalists F James and G Wade, and F Durant and G Westbrook. Like them, F Anthony and G Lin have the potential to form a 1-2 punch that can knock down post-season defenses. Compared to Westbrook and Durant, Lin and Anthony have the potential to form a better 2-man game because they're better passers than their OKC counterparts.
I also wouldn't say good-bye to the pick-and-roll just yet. The other 2 members of the Big 3 are chiefly pick-and-roll scorers. Lin is still the best Knick at running the pick-and-roll, unless Prigioni proves otherwise. Woodson abandoning the pick-and-roll altogether wouldn't only be Anthony over Lin. It would be Anthony over Stoudemire, Chandler, and Lin.
That's why I emphasized Lin's ability to get open. JR Smith, for example, tends to get caught in congestion when he's off the ball. A reason Smith jacks is because he isn't sure where the defense is. When he's off the ball, Lin is very good at reading defenses; he finds the gaps. The bodies may be there, but if Lin has a mismatch and/or the defense is caught rotating, Lin will break that down. He should shoot 3s well enough to keep the defense honest (unlike Landry Fields), but he doesn't need to settle for the 3. Will Lin be able to slice all the way to the basket? Not all the time, but I suspect more than we think. Will he consistently be able to create a shot in the 8-15 foot range? I think so. I hope he pulls up more anyway to avoid hits at the basket.
DeleteFor the Lin/Anthony 2-man game to work, Anthony needs to adjust, too. Last season, Woodson put the two of them together and there were promising signs. They just didn't have enough time to work it out before Lin went down. I look forward to seeing where the pairing goes next season.
My main point is there's room for both Lin and Anthony. You can't just throw shot hogs together. The winning formula is iso and ball movement. The shot hogs need to share. Lin and Anthony have the potential to do that. As both finalists showed, contenders need 2 perimeter iso scorers and preferably 1 in reserve. Next level down, the Spurs have Ginobili and Parker. The Celtics won when they had Rondo and Pierce scoring; they lost when Rondo had an off-shooting night and/or Pierce couldn't muster enough lift to shoot.
Add: Anthony kick-out to Kidd swing to Lin should give Lin a good score or assist opportunity every time.
DeleteNot necessarily.
DeleteIn today's NBA, deadly scorers like Lin are zoned off the ball by two or more players defensively while guys like Kidd are allowed to fire away to score their 6 ppg if they can.
Guards in the NBA have to be complete players for their teams to win.
I think he would have been much more of the go to guy in Houston. Jeremy is a talented smart player he will thrive in either system. He knows to play his basketball game, he's said that himself several times in interviews.
ReplyDeleteI read tonight he will sign the Rockets contract on Friday. So the Knicks will have 3 days from Friday to match. It's going to be a great 2012-2013 season for him.
"Jeremy is a talented smart player he will thrive in either system."
DeleteThe stats say otherwise though.
Under D'Antoni's PG pick and roll system, when Lin got minutes starting with the Nets game, he put up 20.4 ppg on 15.8 attempts per game, with 8.5 assists/gm.
Under Woodson's Melo ball, Lin put up 13.3 ppg on 9.0 attempts per game, with 5.4 assists/gm.
Lin's production took a hit, and I see no reason why it won't be the same next season with Woodson and Melo still in charge.
Houston is a pipe dream, but if he were to go there he might have an opportunity to lead his own team.
achondroplasiaphobia:
DeleteYou referred to it as "Melo ball", but you forget that Melo's offensive stats suffered during that time too. Melo scored less than 20 points a game during that stretch. Melo and Lin both scored less during that stretch ... the whole team did because under D'Antoni's run-and-gun system they were averaging like 110 points a game, but under Woodson it went down to like 95.
But when Woodson took over, A) the Knicks were winning and B) the defense got a lot better (until the end of the season).
Lin would have the opportunity to lead his own team in Houston, but it wouldn't be much of a team. Being starting PG for a team that wins 55 games and advances deep in the playoffs is a lot better than leading a marginal team.
Lin is still young. He will get his own team - a winning one - later, just like Steve Nash did. When Lin's current contract with the Knicks run out, he will be 27, which will be just entering his prime.
How good that Houston team can be is unknown. Stranger surprises have happened in the NBA. When Webber went to SAC, nobody expected them to be good. When Nash went to the Suns, nobody expected them to finish with the best record in the NBA. They transformed their teams. If Lin is as good as everyone on this site thinks he is, he has a chance to do something similar in Houston.
DeleteParsons, Royce White, Lamb, T. Jones, Motiejunas...these are all young guys with potential. Maybe all it takes is a good PG to bring it all together, and maybe Lin could've been that guy. We'll never know, but it's fun to speculate.
I think Lin would be successful with the Rockets. Nash to Suns 29 wins to 62 wins and WCF in year 1 successful? No. But 7th or 8th seed (thus implying the Rockets play the 1st or 2nd seed), 1st round successful? I think that's reasonable for Lin year 1 on the Rockets.
DeleteBut if Lin goes to the Rockets now and McHale implements an offense based on Lin's ball-dominant scoring lead guard game, that's all Lin may ever be. Lin has innate PG talents, but they're underdeveloped right now. It may only take Lin a year to hone those talents. But if he leaves for the Rockets now, Lin may end up no better than the Parker, Rose, Westbrook types. I think Lin can be Steve Nash 2.0.
Before Nash made D'Antoni's Suns the highest scoring team in the NBA, he was the floor general of the highest scoring team in the NBA with the Mavs. When Nash rejoined the Suns and made them an instant championship contender, he was a mature veteran at an advanced point of his NBA PG development.
I think Lin can reach the same point of development faster than Nash; I think it will take Lin only 1-2 years. The Knicks for Lin are his Mavs stage to grow and mature as an NBA PG before he shoulders the full weight of a franchise.
I don't want Lin to be loyal to the Knicks for his whole career. I want him to use the Knicks in the near term to improve and grow his game as a PG, mature into a veteran, and pick up valuable winning regular season and post-season reps.
Then, just like Nash, I want Lin to take over his own team as its centerpiece, carry it on deep play-off runs every year, and contend for championships. And win a few of them, unlike Nash. The Big 3 contracts expire in 3 years. That team may end up being the Knicks.
Nash/Dirk in Dallas was a much different situation than Lin/Melo.
DeleteNash and Dirk both came to that Mavs franchise as unproven youngsters, grew together, and were good friends. That gave them excellent chemistry and a good environment for Nash (along with Dirk) to develop.
Lin and Melo will NEVER have that type of chemistry. I'd bet money that.
Nash joined the Mavs in his 3rd season. Next season will be Lin's 3rd season, but 2nd with the Knicks. The Mavs success wasn't all about Nash/Nowitzki, especially in the early years when the jury was out on Nowitzki and Nash. Finley was the team's leading scorer. I don't recall a special chemistry between Nash and Finley.
DeleteTrue, Lin won't grow up as a player with Anthony, like Nash and Nowitzki working out together as young gym rats. But Nash/Nowitzki took years to develop. Anthony is a veteran with a polished versatile skill-set. He just underachieves with it. If Anthony gets his mind right - and that is a big if - he and Lin can develop a 2-man game a lot faster than the immature Nash and Nowitki developed theirs. Developing that chemistry and learning to play off of and with another superstar early in his career would be another way for Lin to jump ahead of Nash's pace on his developmental curve. It's not like Anthony will develop a 2-man game with anyone else on the Knicks roster.
Finley wasn't an iso ballhog ballstopper like Melo, though, and neither was Dirk.
DeleteHell, I have my doubts on whether Nash himself could have co-existed on the Knicks with iso-Melo, had the Knicks been able to land Nash this offseason. Same with Nash and Kobe, even though Kobe has a better chance of meshing with Nash since he's just a better player than Melo.
The Rockets would be a fresh slate, no iso-happy divas, no owner with powerful enemies bent on destroying the franchise like Dolan has...just team basketball, or at least the potential for it. The fans in Houston hate Lin now, but if he went there and brought them team-oriented, winning basketball (i.e. Linsanity), he would win them over.
I believe he would, too. They have low expectations in Houston. I expect Lin would bring a fun style of basketball, upset a few contenders along the way, and push the team into the play-offs. Lin would be fine in Houston.
DeleteWith the Knicks, it's not all on Lin; Anthony has to figure it out, too. The pressure is on him. He's forced a trade, pushed his coach to quit, he's in his prime, and his peers are getting away from him. His NCAA championship was a long time ago. His NBA legacy is on the line. He's not known for his fitness and last year he carried injuries, too, so this 3 year window may well be his best shot.
Anthony can be one of the best players in the NBA. If he's ever going to be great, it'll happen in within this window, and Lin is positioned to be his co-star. If Anthony doesn't figure it out now, he won't figure it out until he's an old vet trying to catch on with a championship contender.
But Lin being Melo's co-star is worthless. Lin will be marginalized and stagnated due to playing Woodson/Melo iso ball. The stats from last year already bear this out. What will change next season? Melo will be in his 10th season in the league. He's already set in his ways, he won't change.
DeleteEven if they win a championship that way, so what? Chalmers just won a ring with Lebron, but nobody considers Chalmers an elite point guard. Nash has never won a championship, never even been to the finals, but he's considered one of the greatest PG's of all time.
Lin needs his own team, or at least a team without a ball dominant iso-happy prima donna. Even though it won't happen and the Knicks surely will match, the Rockets could be that team.
Add: Anthony is a shot-hog, but he's not Joe Johnson who handles the ball. Lin is the ball-handler, which means he has 1st control. Anthony's FGA is in the same range as the other top scorers. All the top scorers isolate. He just needs to be crisper with his moves to better pressure the defense and move the ball better.
DeleteMore about the Anthony/Lin 2-man game: go to youtube and look up the highlights of the games that Lin played for Woodson. Woodson put them on the same side together, including pick-and-rolls. He was trying to get them to play off of each other. It wasn't smooth yet, but there were glimmers. I doubt Woodson is ready to abandon his Lin/Anthony pairing just yet.
Lin's MPG in the 7 games under Woodson was low due to blow-outs and Lin's injury. His MPG, along with everything else, was very high under D'Antoni.
DeleteTo compensate for the lower MPG, run Lin's Woodson numbers through /36m. His FGA/36m was 11.6. Compare 11.6 to the career FGA/36m of these NBA PGs: Rose 17.1, Westbrook 16.6, Deron Williams 13.9, Paul 13.7, Billups 12.5, Dragic 12.3, Nash 12.3, Kidd 11.3, Rondo 10.3. Lin's FTA/36m in those 7 games was 6.6, which is high for PGs. With a bump from his free throws, Lin's shots under Woodson fall in the Billups/Dragic/Nash (career FTA/36m 5.5/3.8/3.2 respectively) range. That's not bad.
I expect Lin's FGA next season to be in the 12-14 range, which puts him with Nash through Deron Williams on the above list. Hopefully, his FTA will drop as he figures out how to take fewer hits.
Anthony can't take every shot and on kick-outs, Lin is the best perimeter scorer. Anthony is not a primary ball-handler, unlike the Hawks Joe Johnson. Lin as the starting PG is still the primary ball-handler, and a natural scorer with the ball in his hands will score. Stoudemire and Chandler still depend on the pick-and-roll to score, and Lin runs the pick-and-roll.
Better Knicks defense also means more fastbreaks and Lin is one of the best PGs in the NBA running the break. He doesn't score so much on the break, but he looks good leading it.
Chalmers may be a better PG than he's shown, but it's hard to tell because he plays with James. James is a point forward. Anthony is not a point forward. James is a play-maker. Anthony finishes, but is not a play-maker. Anthony depends on his PG to set him up. James depends on no one to set him up. PGs get to show off playing with Anthony. Miller and Billups weren't ignored playing with Anthony.
DeleteIf the Knicks somehow beat the Heat and then win a championship, and Lin somehow gets no credit for it, which wouldn't happen, I doubt he would retire. If he chose to leave as a champion, Lin would be ready to take over a team even better prepared than Nash was when Nash left the Mavs.
I get sick of Eric's hater arguments that Lin's pg skills are "underdeveloped".
DeleteHe'll hold up a guy like Goran Dragic as being "polished" even though Dragic scores less, passes less, rebounds less, steals less, blocks less, and wins less.
Haters gonna hate. Lin gonna WIN.
K, I want Lin to improve. Don't you?
DeleteNo, I don't.
DeleteJerry West said this about Kobe. "Kobe doesn't need to work on anything. He just has to get into the game and PLAY".
Lin has a complete skill set. He just needs to PLAY.
By saying Lin is "underdeveloped" and then making endless arguments about it, you directly imply that Lin hasn't worked hard enough at being a PG and thus lacks game. You are WRONG WRONG WRONG.
It's reasonable that Lin's PG game has room to improve. After all, he's converting from a college SG/combo. Most college SGs don't have the talent to make the transition, not fully at least. Lin does. His work ethic is one of the reasons I believe Lin can develop into a complete PG, unlike the Parker, Rose, Westbrook types.
DeleteThe Knicks have the right situation for it. They're a team that believes it needs a Nash or Kidd quality facilitator floor-general PG to function. They even signed Argentina's PG, a top international facilitator floor-general PG. When Lin meets that standard, he'll have built an entire dimension to his game. Given his talent, smarts, and work ethic, I don't think it will take him long.
Add: Did West really say that about Bryant? Besides the fact that Bryant has worked a lot on his game since coming into the NBA, he also came
Deleteinto the NBA as an SG. Bryant has improved on his strengths, but his weaknesses have remained, too. I think Lin can do better that.
If Lin didn't convert from his college role and his NBA role was a Delonte West-type SG/PG combo, I'd be more inclined to say Lin only needs playing time.
Yes, Jerry West said that about Lin in a book written about Kobe 10 years ago. This was when Del Harris was coach of the Lakers and Kobe was clearly better than Eddie Jones despite sitting behind him. West believed in Bryant the same way I believe in Jeremy Lin.
DeleteI like what Gilbert Arenas said about being a so called "combo guard" in the NBA. A "pure" point guard tends not to last in the NBA if he can't score.
Just because a player can play both guard positions does not mean that he has worse court vision than a "pure" point guard like Steve Nash who averages 4 turnovers a game.
Eric, you've got to be kidding me if you are hoping that Lin "meets the standard" of a miminum wage 35 year old point guard who has played ZERO NBA minutes in his long career.
DeleteYou are hoping that Lin "improves" enough to be as good as Pablo Prigioni? GTFU, kid.
GTFO to my own typos.
DeleteI agree Lin needs to play, but it's not either/or play or add parts to his game. Bryant did both. Lin needs to do both. The two aspects go hand in hand.
DeleteK, the standard I'm talking about is facilitator floor general PG.
Add: Lin can already score. I'm taking about adding a dimension to his game, not replacing the dimension he already he has.
DeleteAgain, not either/or. And.
Standard?
DeleteWhich NBA player fits that "standard? Pablo Prigioni???
Are you going to name Deron Williams who has shown the world that he can lead the Nets to the lottery? Or Chris Paul who was shut down by the Spurs? What about your boy Kyrie Irving that Lin matched in points and assists while beating Irving's Cavs by 20? How about Steve Nash who averages as many turnovers per possession as Lin does?
I don't see any other players living up to this "standard" of yours, Eric.
Nash and Kidd.
DeleteSo you think that Nash's turnovers that equal Lin's make Nash a better floor general?
DeleteMaybe you should talk to Steve Novak who went from scoring 3 a game to !2 thanks to Lin.
You think Jason Kidd and his 5 asts a.game are better than Lin's 7 non starter adjusted assists is a better facilitator than Lin?
Go ask Tyson Chandler who scored more with Lin's Knicks than he did with Kidd's Mavs.
Kidd will pass to melo in low post under woodson system. Jeremy Lin will be playing some 2 guard with Kidd at the pg.
ReplyDelete, woodson already said so.
Yes Kidd will have the ball during offense at pg. But on the defensive end, Jeremy Lin will guard other teams quick pg.
How about what Kidd said that he wants to play in the last minutes of the game? where that leave Jeremy Lin?
just you watch.
Jeremy Lin is better off in Houston.
Deejay: "How about what Kidd said that he wants to play in the last minutes of the game? where that leave Jeremy Lin?"
DeleteFirst, we're assuming Kidd has enough left in the tank to be a closer, a starter, and everything in between. Whatever game Kidd has left has to be rationed for the post-season.
But assuming Kidd closes games, the likeliest scenario is Lin closes with him. At this stage of his career, Kidd needs to play with combo guards like Barea, West, Beaubois, Terry ... or Lin.
On defense, Kidd can't defend PGs anymore, only SGs and SFs. On defense, he needs Lin, Shumpert, or Smith to defend the PG for him.
On offense, Kidd no longer does many PG things. He conducts the offense, spaces the floor, makes entry passes, swings the ball, and spots up for the kick-out 3. He doesn't run the break, create scores, make plays, and move off the ball. I don't think he runs the pick-and-roll anymore. He can still post-up, but I doubt the PG post-up (which I believe Lin would be good at) will be part of Woodson's offense. Lin can do the PG things better than the Knicks SGs.
In short, Lin's combo-guard is tailor-made to complement Kidd on offense and, to a lesser extent with a nod to Shumpert, defense. If Kidd closes games, so will Lin.
Dallas didn't exactly beg Kidd to stay. Maybe they know something the Knicks don't or are just generally smarter.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYep, Prigioni shouldn't get too comfortable at the end of the bench.
DeleteI forgot to include on the list of PG things Kidd doesn't do anymore: dribble drive.
Kidd can make an impact with his remaining viable skills by being smart and calm, and bringing order to the offense, but he needs his teammates, especially the guard with him, to actually do things.
Deejay is concerned Kidd won't leave enough for Lin. I'm concerned Kidd's shrinking game will leave too much for Lin.
"Dallas didn't exactly beg Kidd to stay. Maybe they know something the Knicks don't or are just generally smarter."
DeleteDallas knew there were other, younger point guards on the market. And they got Darren Collison by trading away one of the pieces they didn't need, Ian Mahinmi ...
There's always a player on any given team who doesn't want to be there .... the GM just needs to go after these disgruntled players.
Kidd already stated that he wants to play in the last 6 minutes of the game.
DeleteKidd says he feels great and he said he can play about 25-30 minutes a game.
Jeremy dont need a mentor or babysitter. If Jlin plays well, everyone gonna credit kidd and not of Jlin hard work ..
If Dwight does go to Houston, Houston will be a much much better situation and NY. While Dwight is the 1st option, Lin can be the go to guy on perimeter and in the 4th quarter. Together they have much more potential of winning more games and going deep in the playoffs than NY. I also suspect Morey and McHale will love Lin much more than the NY manager and coach.
ReplyDeleteThere's one fundamental problem with Houston:
ReplyDeleteThey have no quality big men left.
Houston can't guard the basket and can't score inside. That means on the pick and roll, defenders will crowd Jeremy Lin. And scoring on Lin will be easy because they'll just pick Lin off his own guys.
I expect Lin to play higher quality basketball in NY than Houston.
That's true, Houston has no big men at the moment. Ideally, if Lin went to Houston, he'd kidnap Chandler and take him with him. :)
DeleteBut being serious, lack of big men might not be all that bad. Nash's Suns never had a true inside presence. Amare doesn't count. On offense he was either facing up, or jumpshooting from 15 feet. On defense, he was....wait defense? Amare? LOL
The Rockets have unknown potential in Royce White, and T. Jones. Plus if they need a defensive big man, they can pick up someone like Haywood, who just got amnestied by the Mavs. There will probably be others available as the offseason moves along.
I just don't see Lin thriving with Melo.
Houston can built around Jeremy Lin. I bet you Jeremy is thinking Houston right now, thats why nothing sign yet. If Jeremy sign the rockets offer sheet, the knicks will match real quick.No sign no match
Deletehopefully a sign n trade, Jeremy gotta do what makes him happy and his futture.
If Jeremy stay and play in ny. If Jeremy shine, the melo dama gonna arise and woodson offense is for melo. thats why the knicks hired woodson.
Deletewhy did mike dantoni resign? yeah melo wants the ball in his hands more.
under mike dantoni Jeremy Lin shine and scores a lot. But under woodson, Jeremy shots went down and scoring went down, and everything. why?
its melo ball iso..
thats how woodson did it in atlanta with joe johnson.
D'Antoni's offense placed Anthony on the edge in the Marion or Novak role. Anthony is capable of the spot-up 3, but he normally operates out of the mid-high post, mid-range. Anthony's operating area was given over to the pick-and-roll under D'Antoni.
DeleteA breaking-down Mike Bibby had 12-13 FGA, 33-35 MPG during his 2 seasons as a full starting PG in Iso-Joe.
I'm from Phx, so I know how many quality big men Nash actually had to play with.
DeleteNash ALWAYS had at least one quality big man. Initially it was Amare Stoudemire and Steven Hunter. Then it changed to Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw. Robin Lopez (OK playing aside STAT) and Shaq entered the picture, and then it's Marcin Gortat. Plus Grant Hill was a teammate too.
Houston doesn't have those quality big men now. And right now they have no point guards either.
Ironically, Morey had the free agent market on PGs completely cornered last year. Kyle Lowry, Goran Dragic, Jeremy Lin, and even the wildly overrated Jonny Flynn were all on there and are now gone. Morey is not the genius everyone thinks he is.
Steven Hunter? LOL @ Steven Hunter being a quality big man.
DeleteYou said "Houston can't guard the basket and can't score inside." Well, Kurt Thomas nor Boris Diaw were inside players. Neither was Grant Hill.
Lopez, Shaq, and Gortat weren't there in 2004-05 when they had the BEST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE.
As far as what the Rockets have at the moment, Harrellson is an up and coming interior defender.
Leuer showed last season that he is an up and coming interior presence.
Terrence Jones is intriguing. He isn't really an inside presence, but neither is Grant Hill and you still mentioned him.
Patrick Patterson can give you what Kurt Thomas gave, midrange shooting from a stretch 4.
Jerome Jordan has nice skills and just needs a chance. He looked good in the D-League with Lin.
And then there's Motiejunas who is a huge unknown but has loads of potential and is similar in skillset to Bargnani.
So yeah Houston has no strong inside presence, but neither did that 04-05 Suns team that won the MOST GAMES IN THE NBA.
Add: How could I forget about Parsons? Parsons can give Lin's Rockets what Grant Hill gave Nash's Suns.
DeleteAdd 2: And what about Royce White? Very intriguing prospect. He can provide the passing and ball handling from the 3/4 spot that Diaw gave the Suns.
DeleteBottom line, the Rockets would be a better situation for Lin.
DeleteThe Devil we know (Knicks ISO Melo/Woodson ball) vs the Devil we don't (Rockets fans hate Lin at the moment + a roster that is unproven and young).
I'd take the Rockets situation for Lin. It's the lesser of two evils.
Hey achrondoplasiaphobia, do you realize that Stephen Hunter played for those 2004-2005 Suns?
DeleteStephen Hunter played very well for the Suns, though he didn't last long because Jerry Colangelo doesn't do big men (i.e. the Olympics with our small ball teams). Hunter played excellent backup center for the Suns and allowed Stoudemire to play his natural PF spot.
I don't know how much Suns you watch, Phobia, but Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw played primarily the center position for the Suns. Shawn Marion and Grant Hil were the power forwards. It would always work until the Suns would face true power teams like Dallas, San Antonio, or the Lakers. Still, those players were solid in the regular season.
That Suns team sent Nash, Stoudemire, and PF Shawn Marion to the All Star Game. Quentin Richardson and Joe Johnson were bruising swingmen. So I completely disagree with your notion that the Suns had no inside game, though they couldn't beat Tim Duncan in the playoffs.
The Rockets are young and unproven. It would be interesting to see if Jeremy Lin could make players out of their guys like he did with Novak.
The 2004-05 through 2006-07 Suns inside presence was no better than what the Rockets have right now. You should know the Suns were a run and gun team with no defense (and no interior defense). That's why it was such a big deal when they traded for Shaq in early 2008. Are you sure you live in Phoenix? LOL
DeleteIf you think Patrick Patterson, Chandler.Parsons, Royce White, and Terrence Jones are better than powerful inside All Stars like a young Amare Stoudemire and Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion and a MIP player in Boris Diaw as well as the NBA's best interior defender in Kurt Thomas, you are not just ignorant of the game but also a FLAMEBOY.
DeleteThe Suns were a run and gun team with solid defensive numbers that appeared skewed to ignoramuses like you that didn't realize that the Suns played at an extremely high pace. See, guys like you who don't know the game believe the media hype instead of actually watching the game being played. That's why you don't know anything about the Suns other than what people have mistakenly said.
When the Suns traded for Shaq, they had one of the best defenses in the entire NBA. But Grant Hill had an appendectomy right before the Shaq trade and the Suns defense fell apart because Hill was their best perimeter defender. After the Shaq trade, Hill continued to play but was a shell of himself since he came back too quickly. Shaq dramatically improved the Suns interior defense, scoring, and rebounding, but the Suns couldn't stop anybody on the perimeter without Hill and Shaq unfairly took the blame for it.
So, phobia, care to refute me? BRING IT ON, flameboy.
Did you just imply Stoudemire is a strong defender? LOL Now I've heard it all. Keep up the good work KHuang! :D
DeleteThay was weak, flameboy.
DeleteStoudemire was an adequate defender with guys like Marion and Hunter beside him.
Keep up the bad work, achondroplasiaphobia.
This conversation was a good read until the name calling started...sad..
DeleteToo bad.
DeleteI fight flames with flames.
What are you? Five?
DeleteNo.
DeleteI'm just not a HATER like you.
Welcome to the board, by the way. But I caution you that your adding to the flaming is not going to make it any better.
Let's wait and see. Woodson, Melo, JR, Amare will all marginalize Lin every way possible. Those guys just don't bball to win games. They play for stats only. I don't feel good for Lin in the lineup with them.
ReplyDeleteCara, I think Jlin thinking Houston. If Jlin has something to prove to the world that he can play. Go to Houston and built his team there.
DeleteWasn't Smith one of Lin's guests at the Espys? I didn't see it, but I heard Lin was hanging out with Fields and Smith.
Deleteyeah j.r smith and field was there.
DeleteCara, don't worry too much about Carmelo Anthony or anybody marginalizing Lin.
DeleteAs long as Carmelo Anthony is allowed to continue being the NBA's biggest low percentage shooting no passing black hole, he's not going to snipe at Lin. Anthony rebelled against DAntoni because Anthony wasn't good enough to play the active SF wing cutting role DAntoni wanted him to play.
Besides, Lin is going to get onto an NBA court and produce. People can snipe all they want and it's not going to even affect Lin's minutes. If Woodson is dumb enough to go with Kidd over Lin, Woodson will put his own job at risk especially in the playoffs.
Carmelo Anthony doesn't CARE enough about people to even target Lin personally!
Anthony does care insofar that he knows he needs to play with a good PG. I agree it's not particularly important to Anthony that Lin is that good PG. But as long as Lin is the Knicks PG, Anthony needs Lin to be good.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKnicks bought in veteran PGs because Woodson trusts veteran as his PG more than young players. Not that he particularly likes Lin. The same happened in Atlanta with Bibby and Teague. And they didn't try to bring in Nash to mentor or help Lin. They tried to bring him in to replace Lin in the lineup. Even now only Kidd was brought in. Melo still said Lin should come off the bench.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe Hawks traded for Bibby in 2007-08. Teague's rookie year was 2009-10, which is the only season he played for Woodson. Teague played 10 MPG, which isn't bad for a rookie playing behind Bibby and Crawford. Teague is okay, but he's no Jeremy Lin.
DeleteAt this point in Jeremy's career, I think NY is a much better destination than Houston for one and one reason only, longevity.
ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt that Jeremy has All-Star talent to be an all-time great PG ; even HOF-er Bob Cousy pointed out to Jeremy sharing his greatest asset of peripheral vision as a PG. But it means nothing if Jeremy ends up having a career like Brandon Roy. It would a Halley comet brilliance named Linsanity, bright but only for a moment. We want no part of this story.
Jason Kidd's recent comment that he wants to mentor Jeremy to have multiple gears of speed so Jeremy can play 82 games in a season made me realize that it is of the utmost importance now for Jeremy to learn how to play 18+ years in the NBA, especially with his history of knee injuries in his first 2 seasons.
The biggest challenge that Jeremy needs to overcome next season is whether he can play 82 games as a good-to-great PG. He does not need to prove he can repeat Linsanity, he does not need to prove he is worth his contract values, he just needs to distribute the ball to his All-Star teammates and on the days they couldn't deliver, unleash Linsanity in the last 6 minutes of the game without getting injured. This is the time when Jeremy needs to be a sponge next to Jason Kidd absorbing all the tricks and wisdom of a great PG.
Imagine if Jeremy plays great for 55 games but gets injured again and could not help in the playoff when his teammates need him the most. All the media would talk about is how his body could not hold his talent and how Chris Paul is the next savior. Multiple theories would surface on how Asian bodies are not as strong as other race's.
And this scenario is more likely to happen in Houston when he has to unleash Linsanity every game because his teammates are not as good and he has not learned to play with multiple gears like Jason Kidd said.
Whether we want to admit it or not, NY is the best place for Jeremy to grow to be a great-to-legendary PG. I'm not worried one bit of his talent being marginalized by his All-Star teammates and coach. Jeremy has enough talent, personality, intelligence and smarts to deal with all that.
Action speaks louder than words.
- The Knicks has brought mentors/veterans (Nash or Kidd, Pablo guy) to help Jeremy, (notice they don't bring young PG yet?)
- Woodson has shown his confidence when he trusted Jeremy to close the Philly(?)game with his FT even when he started 1-12 FG.
- Woodson has repeatedly informed the media that Knicks will resign Jeremy and shown his support for Jeremy to be a starter.
Is that enough? Well, it will have to do for now.
I still don't trust the Knicks to fully support Jeremy in 2013 when Chris Paul is available but at this point, the Knicks offer the best place for Jeremy to be.
Until then, let's enjoy the Knicksanity in a few months :D
Be shrewd like a snake but stay innocent like a dove, Jeremy!
I agree. All good points. Lin has arrived. Now it's about extending the horizon of his aspirations and building his NBA career.
DeleteI believe Lin would be successful with the Rockets, but you're right - there's a greater risk the Rockets would 'ride him like frickin' Secretariat' like D'Antoni did. Lin would push himself hard.
Nash's game is more like Lin's game, so I thought Lin would have benefited more from Nash's advice. But Kidd also has a lot to offer, including about, as you said, having a long and durable career. I'd trust Kidd's advice more than Baron Davis's advice on that subject.
I don't worry about Lin being traded for Paul next year. One, it's unlikely. Two, if it happens, then Lin will leave the Knicks with a full year of improvement, development, maturation, and regular and post-season experience.
Any player in Lin's shoes would have to ram himself against negative expectations until a contract was landed.
DeleteIf Lin didn't play in that 5th gear, he'd be playing for Yao Ming and the Shanghai Sharks this year. He'd beat Stephon Marbury to a PULP, and I LOVE Marbury.
Lin is a cerebral PG who knows how to pace himself. His guaranteed contract and solid roster spot will ensure that he plays good solid conservative basketball no matter what team he plays for.
The losing streak that forced D'Antoni to resign was caused by a lack of defense. I don't think Kidd is going to be kept at the end of the game to guard a speedy point or shooting guard. Nash has been a major liability in that area for years. In fact, that's what got Derek Fisher traded too although his steady hand was valuable to a young Thunder team.
DeletePhil, good point. Kidd has always been a better defender than Nash. It remains to be seen how well Kidd can defend wings with strength and guile rather than his rapidly departing quick feet. PGs are pretty much out of his range.
DeleteBryant's lateral quickness has deteriorated as well. Nash and Bryant together are going to be a sieve in the backcourt. The Knicks would have played quick guards Smith, Lin, and Shumpert eventually with Nash to protect him on defense, just as they will with Kidd.
Nash is not protected defensively playing with Bryant ... unless Bryant is moving to SF and the Lakers are installing a quick defensive role player in between Nash and Bryant.
Well, that's why Nash is lobbying the Lakers to get the best defensive perimeter player in the NBA: Grant Hill.
DeleteBoth Nash and Hill have extended each other's careers. Nash covers for Hill on offense and Hill covers for Nash on defense.
Great points. So that's why Bryant has had to rely on his blanket defense to compensate for his decreasing lateral quickness. Check out this ESPN writer's tweet. LOL, It makes sense now
DeleteWindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
Kyrie: "You're going to have to guard, you're not going to lock me up." Kobe: "You're going to need a pick to get me off you, sonny."
And the main weakness of D'Antoni's system have always been his short rotation and the lack of team defense to cover for Nash's shortcoming. I couldn't recall any strong bench players during his Phoenix Suns years (other than Barbosa) that can make a difference the way the Heat's bench just did recently.
Makes me wonder how NY bench will fare this upcoming season.
The point was driven home in the Lin 38 point game against the Lakers when Lin passed ahead to Shumpert on the wing with Bryant squared up on defense. Shumpert paused and then blew past Bryant for the lay-up. Bryant's feet looked like they were stuck in mud. Body leaning, feet not moving.
DeleteKurt Thomas, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, and even Shaquille O Neal made HUGE defensive impacts on Nash's Suns.
DeleteThose players, particularly Marion, sacrificed their bodies to erase Nash's shortcomings. Each one of those players was a great individual defender for Nash's Suns.
Like I said above, the Suns high ranking defenses were overshadowed by their flashy offense.
By the way, I think D'Antoni's 2011-2012 Knicks were like 6th in league defensively before Linsanity. During Linsanity, D'Antoni's Knicks were #1.
As far as defense this year goes, the Knicks don't have quick guards other than Lin and Shumpert to chase people down. At least with Landry Fields, the Knick backcourt had a fighting chance defensively.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteachondroplasiaphobia:
ReplyDeleteDon't compare Lin in New York to Chalmers in Miami. For one thing, Lin is better than Chalmers. Another, Miami has guys who can actually be starting NBA point guards on both sides of the floor in James and Wade, plus other guys who can handle the ball and pass as well. Third, Miami is all about "the big 3" just like Boston was. Well in New York, Lin is part of that big 3. It is Melo, Stoudemire and Lin. And I say that Lin could surpass Stoudemire on the pecking order as early as this season.
Consider two examples: Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade. Bosh was putting up huge numbers in Toronto, which was his own team. Since joining Miami, he has gone from averaging 24 points and almost 4 assists a game to 14 points and .6 assists a game. Better to be part of the big 3 in Miami than having his own mediocre Toronto team.
And then there is Dwayne Wade. Miami was ALREADY his own team. But he gave that up once to win a title with Shaq, and again to win a title with LeBron. He chose that over winning scoring titles (like he did in 2008) and putting up point-guard type numbers in assists, which have dropped from averaging over 7 a game to 4.6 a game since LeBron came because LeBron likes to handle the ball and pass too.
Every available evidence is that it is better to be a key part of a very good or great team than having your own mediocre team. Let me give you another example: for my money, Dale Ellis , Chuck Person and Dominique Wilkins were as good as or better than Scottie Pippen. Ellis, Person and Wilkins had their own teams, put up great numbers, and even went to the playoffs a few times. But do you know who they are? Nope. Meanwhile, EVERYONE knows who Scottie Pippen is. Pippen never had "had his own team" but he DID win titles, and that is why he is regarded as the prototypical NBA small forward instead of Ellis, Person and Wilkins despite lacking the reliable post-up game or outside jump-shot that those guys had.
Still say Lin being part of the New York big 3 and then seeking his own destiny afterwards (who knows, maybe in New York, because if Melo doesn't win a title in 3 years, the Knicks will likely conclude that he isn't going to and dump him) when he is 27 and in his prime is a good deal. Not the ideal situation, granted, but better than being Chuck Person in Indiana, Dale Ellis in Denver, or Pete Maravich in Atlanta and New Orleans (the Jazz) back in the day.
"achondroplasiaphobia:
DeleteDon't compare Lin in New York to Chalmers in Miami. For one thing, Lin is better than Chalmers."
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Where did I say Chalmers was better than Lin? I used Chalmers as an example of someone who isn't considered an elite PG, even though he won a ring.
next yeear Jeremy gonna smoke Chalrmers, He wont be able to guard Jeremy ..just you watch.
DeleteLin is much bigger than Chalmers and Norris Cole. He's almost 6'-4" 215 lbs... they are about 6'-1" and 6'-2" respectively, and under 200 lbs. He can't beat them with quickness off the dribble, so he should learn how to post them up.
DeleteMaybe this is something that Jason Kidd can teach Lin, how to use his size to his advantage. I saw flashes of this iso post-up game vs. Rondo and Jason Terry. But he only does it rarely.
Uh, I can't imagine the ultra quick Lin (as fast as John Wall, faster than Derrick Rose and Kyrie Irving) being unable to beat Norris Cole or Mario Chalmers off the dribble.
DeleteA tired overplayed Lin can't beat anybody.off the dribble, but a healthy engaged Lin is virtually unstoppable unless a double team comes.
achondroplasiaphobia, Unknown is making the same basic point I did. The differences between the Knicks and Heat, Lin and Chalmers, and Anthony and James, means that if the Knicks win, Lin will get a lion's share of credit.
DeleteWith the Heat, Chalmers is relegated to Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr status because his star teammates handle the point duties. In contrast, the Knicks have a higher demand for their point guard to be a full point guard. If the Knicks win, Lin will shine.
ABC Baller,
DeleteLook at Lin's drives and cuts to the basket and count how many of them finish in essentially an advanced post-up move. The only thing missing so far in Lin's post-up game is the initial act of going down low and driving his butt into somebody.
I believe Lin would be very effective out of the post as a passer and scorer.
Thank you unknown for mentioning Dale Ellis, Chuck Person, and Dominique Wilkins.
DeleteLet's start with Ellis. Earlier this year, I.mentioned how Ellis started out being buried behind Mark Aguirre and Rolando Blackman in Dallas. Ellis joined Xavier McDaniel and Tom Chambers in Seattle where they could never beat Magic's Lakers. I thought the 6'7" Ellis was the 2nd best shooting guard behind Michael.Jordan when he was with Seattle.
Chuck Person is an interesting fellow. When he was with the Pacers, I felt that his mouth was bigger than his game. But he's transformed himself into the humblest and most respected assistant coach in the NBA, having helped Kobe Bryant score easier. Go figure.
Dominique Wilkins is the most athletic small forward I've ever seen play the game. I consider him more athletic than Lebron James or Julius Erving and on par with Michael Jordan.
I remember this one Magic Johnson summer All Star game where Dominique had little Kevin Johnson on the right baseline. Nique did a full 360 around KJ and did another 360 spin move that ended in a dunk. The whole thing happened BAM BAM and KJ was practically still playing defense after Nique dunked.
KHuang:
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that LeBron James is a better player now than he was when he was 24?
And do you believe that Steve Nash was a better player at 27 than he was at 24?
By the way ... I was a Lakers' fan when KobeBryant's outside shot, ball-handling, passing and defense all got a lot better, and not just because he came to the NBA out of high school. I say that Bryant was a better player in 2008-2009 when he won his 4th and 5th titles than he was from 1999-2002 when he won his first 3.
Michael Jordan also improved. His outside shot got MUCH BETTER, and he added a post game too.
Good post unknown, and I have to openly admit that I dunno.
DeleteAs players age, they play differently. Lin is at an age where his athleticism gets so much done. Same goes for any other player in the NBA.
I remember commentator Steve Jones talking about his playing days in the old ABA. He said that just as he was learning how to really play, he started losing his physical edge.
For every Steve Nash or Lebron James or Kobe Bryant, there are guys like Gilbert Arenas and Rashard Lewis and Amare Stoudemire and Hedo Turkoglu that are not getting better despite getting older. I'd say that even for those great players, it depends on the team and individual situations.
So unknown, I am of mixed feelings about the age issue. As players get older, they lose their athletic ability but gain in skills and team importance.
All those who think Jason ,Kidd cant play and is in ny to mentor Jeremy Lin. Better read Kidd comments here at ny post at Jason Kidd press conference.
ReplyDeleteKidd said he love to start and he wants to close the game in the last 6 minutes of every games. So If Kidd playing in the last 6 minutes of the games with shumpert, where does that leae Jeremy, ? on the benched and woodson will pull that trigger anytime anyday.. read bettween the lines,
Jeremy Lin need to close out games so he can get more experienes and not onn the benched so they can make happy.
Houston is better fit for Jeremy.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/jason_willing_close_games_jeremy_4blnai9Mrtjfk4M8jRAp1N
I was ready to find out that Jason Kidd had a slip-of-tongue to say what's really on his mind but this is just another case of NYPost writer reporting "stretched truth" to get more clicks.
DeleteRead Jason Kidd's answer below on "That's up to Coach Woodson". What was the question? Does he want to play at the end of the game? Of course he's going to say he wants to help the team, more importantly he did not infer he wants to replace Jeremy Lin, just be on the court to help his teammates.
-----------
...
If it comes down to sharing the end game, Kidd has no problem doing that with the man who invented and trademarked “Linsanity,” although it’s neither player’s call.
“That’s up to Coach [Mike] Woodson. Again, it becomes about playing basketball. We’re basketball players and a lot of times the media gets lost with playing positions — the point guard, the two guard, the power forward, center,” Kidd said. “So the last six minutes, I’ve always said, is the most important part of the game. … I’d like to be on the court helping or if not helping Jeremy or whoever’s my teammates. Letting them know what I see and hopefully I can help us win ball games.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/jason_willing_close_games_jeremy_4blnai9Mrtjfk4M8jRAp1N#ixzz20XJpRk00
I don't expect him to say "I'm 38 year old and am afraid to play at the last 6 min of the game since my knees could buckle anytime". Of course not, he can certainly play and but not at 35-40 min/game. We should always be wary of reporters twisting the truth to get more clicks.
To be fair, I don't mind Kidd saying that he wants to be on the court as a starter or in the last 6 minutes.
DeleteKidd is an excellent veteran player who has been successful as a starter and closer all his life. For him to openly say that he'd be happy backing up Jeremy Lin is MAD PROPS to Lin.
I see Kidd as saying that he's got enough game to play whatever role Woodson wants for him, including mentoring Lin if need be.
Every great team has veteran stars, as well as young talent to support them. The Spurs have an excellent starting 5, who are well over 30 years old, and their experience is key to winning ... but they also have younger "energy" players like Kawhai Leonard, Tiago Splitter, Danny Green, etc. who can come in and give quality minutes, so the starters can rest.
ReplyDeleteRest is important. Knicks don't have many young players who relieve the starters. Shumpert is out. They gave away Tony Douglas (Who was a decent perimeter defender) and their other young pieces and draft picks.
The 2nd unit should have youth and energy. If they don't re-sign Landry Fields and pick up some other pieces, their bench will be much older than other team's bench ... and that's not good.
Kidd, Camby, and Prigioni are old. But unlike the Spurs, the four known Knicks starters are under 30. Smith and Novak are under 30. White is an even 30. Shumpert is under 30.
DeleteIt's really just Kidd and Camby of the projected rotation players who are old. The rest of the team is young enough. They just need to stop getting injured.
Jeremy has his Rockets contract. Surprise.. different then what they first proposed. They are trying to make it even more difficult on the Knicks.
ReplyDelete3 years 25.1 Million with NO 4th year option:
5 million Year 1
5.2 million Year 2
14.9 million year 3
This is a WAY better contract as he's open for year 4 then the Team option version.
Source:
http://theknickswall.com/2012/07/13/jeremy-lin-contract-update/
Does that third year make it a real poison pill?
DeleteWow so Daryl Morey upped the ante.
DeleteRockets sign Jeremy Lin to offer sheet, making it a bit tougher for New York to match
I'm guessing NYK still matches?
We will know in 3 days! The Knicks may be over a barrel though. There are no viable PG candidates out there that they can afford.
DeleteBigger luxury tax hit in 2014-15, lost the 4th year team option. I think the Knicks were prepared to match anyway. It's an unpleasant last-minute surprise. That extra 5 in 2014-15, depending how high it pushes the Knicks team salary, can cost Dolan 10s of millions.
DeleteProbably shuts the door on Fields.
Or OPENS the door on Fields if Lin walks away.
Delete@Phil:
ReplyDeleteBecause of the luxury tax. There is a huge difference between $9 million and $14 million under the luxury tax. The Rockets offering this sheet shows that they really want him to pair him with Dwight Howard, and Lin signing that sheet shows that he really wants to leave New York.
Also, their offering this sheet shows that the Rockets are pretty confident that they are going to get Howard.
DeleteI'm interested in the story behind the change in terms. The Knicks and, as far as I know, Lin haven't changed their positions since last week's offer. The all-in Howard deal for the Rockets is the only apparent explanation.
DeleteMy guess. The Rockets have 1 year to convince Howard to re-up. According to the rumored trades, the Rockets would be teaming Howard with his salary-dumped Magic teammates with Chris Duhon at PG. That's not a good sales pitch to Howard. They need to give him somebody different and credible to play with. The remaining market for PGs is low and Lin is suddenly a more urgent get. Bonus: Lin and Howard are dedicated Christians with seemingly compatible personalities.
I wonder why 3/25 and not all in with 4/40? Whatever. Good for Lin.
Unknown: "Lin signing that sheet shows that he really wants to leave New York."
DeleteSure, the 5/5/9/(9) set an expectation for a relatively palatable deal which was upended today. But if Lin had agreed to 3/30 last week, would that have shown he wants to leave NYC?
Whether or not Lin wants out, his priority in free agency has been to get the best contract for him, not the best contract for the Knicks or a new team. As far as I know, the Knicks haven't set a ceiling past which they won't match.
If I was the Knicks, I would be annoyed by Morey's breach in custom (if any), but in terms of budgeting, I would be more annoyed if, with an eye on the luxury tax in 2014-15, the roster decisions the Knicks made after Lin's initial offer sheet assumed the 9 mil for Lin. Maybe they would have signed Novak for less. Or paid less for Camby. Or settled for Prigioni at back-up PG and used the mini-MLE on another player rather than Kidd (not likely with Kidd, but maybe).
This is the NBA where bidding for players is an all out WAR.
DeleteThere is no such thing as "breach of custom". The highest bidder usually wins, unless the Miami Heat come calling.
In the NBA, franchises that blame others have only themselves to blame.
I like this Houston contract for Jeremy. The 4th year Jeremy can have another big contract and choose a team he wants.
ReplyDeleteThe Knicks was cocky saying they will match up to a billion. we'll see..
Knicks 'unhappy' about new Rockets offer sheet to Lin
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/lin_signs_rockets_offer_sheet_knicks_y6Y25w9GfZFq4JHYCF0yJJ#ixzz20XUyh9BX
Sources said Lin was unhappy the third year was so low and his camp tried to get Houston to increase it. The Knicks have played hardball with Lin, making him go out and seek an offer. It cost him a chance to practice with the U.S. Select Team as he withdrew July 5th to visit Houston.
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/lin_signs_rockets_offer_sheet_knicks_y6Y25w9GfZFq4JHYCF0yJJ#ixzz20XVHj46r
Morey is a nice GM and he works for a nice owner if he'll rip up and redo the terms of a contract because a player - a free agent - feels remorse over the agreed upon salary and asks for more a week later. I mean, what's 5 million of the boss's money between friends.
DeleteMaybe Lin got a better last-minute offer from another team. The obvious change between when Lin agreed to terms with Morey and the adjusted contract today is Howard. Morey's team-building plan radically changes with Howard.
$5 million is $5 million.
DeleteAnd you know what?
Maybe the Rockets just need a point guard with a pulse THAT BADLY.
Sometimes, the real answer indeed is the obvious one.
Exactly. The obvious answer for 'why' is the Rockets' team need for a PG changed, not as the Post would have it, Lin became dissatisfied with the deal he made last week and the Rockets agreed to an extra 5 mil and took off the team option just to please him.
DeleteEither Lin acquired extra leverage or the Rockets acquired extra need.
The obvious change from last week to this week for the Rockets is Howard. They went from aimless rebuilding team to a win-now team, except their win-now goal isn't the NBA title but rather convincing Howard to re-sign with the Rockets. They suddenly urgently need a quality PG, Lin, more than they did last week and the PG market is quickly drying up.
No, I seriously doubt Howard is the prime reason.
DeleteThe obvious reason is that Houston lost Goran Dragic to Phx and Kyle Lowry refuses to play for Coach Kevin McHale. Thus Houston had no point until Lin signed.
Now Houston has Jeremy Lin, regardless of Dwight Howard. We'll see if the Knicks match.
Except when the 1st offer was agreed upon last week, the Rockets PG situation was the same as it is now. The Knicks position on matching has remained unchanged.
DeleteSomething changed for the Rockets or Lin. If the need is not Howard, perhaps the Rockets targeted other PGs who have since become unavailable. Otherwise, your answer implies that Morey simply didn't appreciate the urgency of the hole at PG last week, panicked, and upped the offer.
That Morey didn't understand the urgency of having a PG with a pulse is EXACTLY what I'm implying.
DeleteSince Houston's first offer came put, the Knicks have been giftwrapping Lin to themselves. Woodson, Kidd and Grunwald have all been crowing about how Lin is going to be a Knick. It could be that Morey saw all that and was like "Waitaminute".
That's the obvious reason, not Howard.
wow, Daryl Morey is pretty smart to introduce this wrinkle in the last minute.
ReplyDeleteWill the Knicks blink now? I say no. $25M is still far away from $1B, right? :D
It's powerful in theory ... because even if the Knicks do match, he will be available in 3 years. By then Houston can get it's act together and be a playoff team.
DeleteBut the 3rd year is when Carmelo, Chandler, and Amare are in the last year of their contracts ... one of those 3 can be traded away as an expiring contract.
A real poison pill would be offering a 4-year contract maxed out at $40 million, with the last year guaranteed. That way if the Knicks aren't satisfied with Lin's development, they would find it near impossible to move him. That's something the GM Grunwald will have to think about.
Actually, an expiring contract is always easy to move.
DeleteConsider the case of Keith Van Horn. Since his huge contract was expiring, he got traded even though he was out of the league. Van Horn didn't even have to play, as his expiring contract allowed other teams to shed cap space.
I'm no capologist, but bigger contracts have a trade value of their own.
Morey also had to consider the possibility the Knicks wouldn't match on Lin. The 1st offer was for 3 years and a team option. Apparently, the Rockets are okay with the balloon payment but don't want to give Lin more than 3 years guaranteed.
DeleteAs a deterrent to the Knicks, the poison pill blows up the luxury tax for the 1 year only, and an extra year would be a consideration, but it wouldn't be a big luxury tax hit in year 4.
Months ago, I speculated that the Knicks might trade Lin for Kidd because they would want a non-scoring point guard to compliment Carmelo who needs the ball all the time. Also, Kidd being a future HOF, it would mitigate the fan's reaction. I think the Knicks may not match the offer.
ReplyDeleteKidd is 39 years old and declining, Lin is only 23 and improving. No comparison. Even a Lin for Nash trade wouldn't be worth it.
DeleteThe Knicks thought rickety Baron Davis was going to be their starting point guard last year. Don't underestimate their foolishness.
DeleteThey thought Billups would be the PG and Toney Douglas would be his back-up. Douglas had been groomed for the role. But in order to sign Chandler, they had to amnesty Billups. (Would have been better to amnesty Stoudemire, but ... you know. Too soon.)
DeleteBaron Davis was only 32 and not that far removed from his glory days. Worth a gamble at a vets minimum, but there was a big 'if' on him from day one. If he's healthy, then he can start. If. The hope for Davis grew as it became clearer that Toney Douglas is not a PG, Anthony is not a point forward, and Shumpert - like Douglas a combo in college - isn't a PG either.
In short, Davis was not the Knicks plan. He was what was there and affordable after they amnestied Billups.
And the Knicks thought Davis was going to start over Lin. But then Lin started abusing Davis in practice and Davis meekly played his bench role with no talk of "mentoring" the man that took his job by FORCE.
DeleteThe Knicks really are as foolish as Phil Hwang says they are. It's that very foolishness that gave Jeremy Lin his chance to be a STAR.
Awesome. Clever stuff, Morey.
ReplyDelete14.8 in the third year is basically the max. And Jeremy can get out of NY a year earlier now.
And in the (still unlikely) event the Knicks don't match...D-12 and Linsanity in Houston???
Well done Morey. I love it lol.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are crazy if you think Dwight Howard respects Lin.
ReplyDeleteMorey is a fool if he thinks having Lin on the Rockets would suddenly convince Dwight to sign an extension with Houston.
Dwight does not strike me as the open minded, worldy type. I bet you $100 Dwight's opinion of Lin is the same as Mayweather's.
This is the same Dwight Howard who said he only wants to play with Deron Williams and nobody else. Now the Nets are off the table, Orlando wants to unload his last year on a team like the Rockets or Lakers ... Dwight won't sign an extension. He's basically good for one-year then he's gone.
DeleteWhat GM in their right mind would put up with that ??
Well, getting Dwight Howard is a smart move, regardless of whether he stays or not. I just don't think having Lin on the Rockets will all of a sudden cause Dwight Howard to want to sign an extension with Houston.
DeleteBut if you're Houston, getting Dwight, however you can, is a no brainer and a smart move, even if he won't sign an extension. If he won't sign an extension? Fine, you trade him for a high lottery pick (or two). It's the only way Houston can get out of their cycle of mediocrity (other than winning the lottery).
even if you are right about Howard...it's what happen's on the court that matters...Lin+Howard is much better basketball chemistry then Lin+Melo...just saying...
Delete"even if you are right about Howard...it's what happen's on the court that matters...Lin+Howard is much better basketball chemistry then Lin+Melo...just saying..."
DeleteAgree 100%. Lin+Howard would be like Lin+Chandler on steroids!
But still, imo having Lin as a teammate would not be enough for Howard. He would leave Houston after a year, even if it's a good year. He would trust a black superstar PG more than he trusts Lin as his PG. Howard just isn't that bright...
Lin and Howard strike me as the same kind of preppy Christian nerd.
DeleteI wonder if Morey does believe he can flip Howard in a sign and trade at the trade deadline or next off-season, if he can't convince him to re-sign with the Rockets.
In the meantime, it behooves Morey to give Howard the minimum courtesy of quality teammates other than the salary-dump rejects arriving with him from the Magic. Chris Duhon at PG is just not going to work.
Howard strikes me as the type whose blackness comes before his Christianity, but that's just my opinion.
DeleteAchondroplasiaphobia, I don't think we have anything to worry about with Dwight Howard's racial preferences.
DeleteJust as you don't negatively prejudge Lin for being Asian, we need not negatively prejudge Dwight Howard for potentially harboring Mayweather-like racism against Lin.
KHuang: That's true if we lived in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we don't. We live in reality, sadly.
DeleteStill, we can be the best we can be and NOT prejudge people.
DeleteAs tough as Mayweather is, he probably would not walk away uninjured from a confrontation with me if he called me racial names. But I'd be happy to serve him sushi at my favorite Japanese restaurant as long as he left me a tip.
$25 Mil in 3 year is an improvement from previous rumored. Why did Knicks not make Jeremy an offer first? I think Jeremy would have signed Knicks' offer to show his gratitude. However, Knicks force JL to obtain and sign an offer from another first and demonstrate his market value. JL's business team is good to get this bid, and Knicks' business team is not so good.
ReplyDeleteMorey has a MBA from MIT. I wonder how it translates to managing a basketball team.
It translates to cutting a guy and then signing him for near max dollars less than a year later!!!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why Isola, NY Post writer, started this anti-Lin tweets. I guess some people crave even negative attention. Questioning the value of the contract is one thing, but questioning whether Jeremy is a player is completely designed to provoke.
ReplyDeleteCheck out these series of tweets.
https://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN
Frank Isola @FisolaNYDN
I'm all for Lin getting the most money but the fact remains no one really knows if he's a player or not
1h The last guy to get that type of money from the Knicks based on three weeks of good work was Jerome James. Just sayin
2h What about C.J. Watson or John Lucas III? Not only was Lucas able to actually dribble across mid court vs Heat but he dropped 25 on them.
2h But I know the rules, you are not allowed to say anything remotely anti-Jeremy Lin. Therefore, $25 mil for Lin...worth every penny
2h Sorry, but for the money the Knicks would have been better off with D.J. Augustin. (And he actually has playoff experience)
Isola isn't a NY Post writer. He's a NY Daily News writer. NYDN has a vendetta against James Dolan, and by extension, NYDN has a vendetta against Jeremy Lin.
DeletePlease don't post Isola's trash here.
But it's nice to see many NY Knicks fans from realgm boad come to Jeremy's defense by creating #unfollowisola campaign hashtag
Deletehttps://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23unfollowisola
thanks for the correction, achondroplasiaphobia. NY media is sure a jungle there
DeleteFrank Asshola, sorry, I mean Frank Isola is just another mainstream media twat.
DeleteMedia shills like him revel in stirring the shit in order bring attention to themselves and whatever corporate media mouthpiece that pays their ass.
It's not just BSPN that plays this self-serving game. It's the mainstream American media in general.
According to this (see link below), the Rockets motivation for increasing Lin's offer is to make Lin's contract less appealing to the Clippers, as it is assumed that the Knicks will try to trade for Chris Paul in the future, with Lin presumably going to the Clippers in return. Morey wants Chris Paul in Houston. By making Lin's contract more unappealing (expensive) to the Clippers, Morey eliminates the Knicks as one of Chris Paul's possible destinations. Having Chris Paul in Houston would be a big incentive for Dwight to stay in Houston. I can see the logic in that, as I'm sure Dwight would rather play with the black, proven Paul than the Asian, unproven Lin. I don't think it will work--there are way too many moving parts for this plan to work--but I can see Morey's thinking.
ReplyDeletehttp://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222306/Rockets_Sign_Lin_To_Larger_Offer_Sheet
Maybe, and maybe not.
DeleteFor now, Houston has neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard.
What they do have is Jeremy Lin with a nice juicy contract that puts a lot of pressure on the Knicks to sign him.
When it's all said and done, Jeremy Lin will be signed to a nice new guaranteed contract somewhere in the NBA.
Bottom line, it's up to Lin to prove all these assholes wrong. It's up to Lin to make them regret seeing him as merely a chess piece to be used to acquire other players, assets, instead of valuing him outright.
ReplyDeleteIt's all up to Jeremy.
It's hard to compare salaries to decide what's fair because the back story changes from player to player. The CBA makes it a strange game. Years later, we only see the bloated salary for a mediocre player and we've forgotten the story behind it. If Lin can get more money out of odd circumstances outside of his control, hey, take the money and buy something nice.
DeleteIf Morey really is aiming the poison pill at the Clippers rather than the Knicks in a devious scheme to keep Lin in NYC and reroute Paul to Houston, Lin can blow up his plan by playing well. Folks may balk at paying 5/5/15 for Lin's potential now. But if he's an established rising star and a proven play-off performer by this time next year, 5/15 doesn't look so bad coming back in exchange for 20 per. Of course, if Lin does well, the Knicks may decide that Paul's price is too high after all.
Well, ALL NBA players are chess pieces.
DeleteWriter Cameron Stauth once wrote that the Chicago Bulls would have traded Michael Jordan "in a heartbeat" for David Robinson. This is Jordan we're talking about here!
In recent years, smart NBA players like Jason Terry have said that every time they step onto an NBA court they are "auditioning for the entire league". Jeremy Lin did that in Golden State, and that's why he was able to remain in the league after being waived.
Still, good post. Jeremy Lin creates hid own destiny.
Jeremy Lin is in Vegas right now with the Rockets... So you guys tell me which team he prefers to be with at this point of his career???
ReplyDeleteHe's in Vegas to watch Team USA scrimmage, the one that he couldn't join because of his contract situation. Carmelo and Tyson are also on Team USA.
DeleteLin signed the Rockets offer sheet in Las Vegas. It would be basic courtesy for Lin to hang out with Rockets officials, get dinner maybe. There is a chance he might be working for them. The Rockets are out there for the summer league. Knicks, too. Team USA.
DeleteJeremy Lin and Dwight Howard duo would be lethal. Dwight's style is a bit like Tyson Chandler's but with more explosiveness, which is what Jeremy works VERY well with. He always knows how to get the ball inside to the open man for a slam as we have seen him do with all of the Knicks players. The fact that Dwight can't shoot makes it even more appropriate to match these two players together. It will be just like Magic and Kareem all over again. LOL
ReplyDeleteYeah it be great if Jeremy choose to go to the Rockets with Dwight Howard. a lot o alley oops..
DeleteIt would be the first time Dwight Howard ever played with a guy that could draw a doubleteam.
DeleteI still have doubts about Dwight Howard's post game despite Olajuwon's tutoring. He doesn't have the natural feel of a true back to the basket post up player.
The guy Dwight Howard reminds me of is a player from the 80s and 90s that had a very similar build and game. That would be Otis Thorpe who was Hakeem Olajuwon's underrated and bruising power forward for one of Houston's championships. To me, there isn't much difference between Thorpe and Howard even though Howard shoots a lot more.
Olajuwon could tutor Dwight for hundreds of years and Dwight still wouldn't have any post moves. Dwight is the most unskilled superstar in NBA history.
ReplyDeleteBut Lin and Dwight would work anyway, since Lin already works well with Chandler, who is a poor man's Dwight (except Chandler isn't hyped up as a supposedly all time great big man like the unskilled Dwight, but I digress).
And don't insult Thorpe like that. Thorpe was smoother than Dwight and had far better touch around the basket than Dwight will ever have. Dwight gets by on his sheer size and freakish athleticism. Seriously, Dwight is unwatchable on offense.
Ok ok, achondroplasia!
DeleteI'm glad to see that we both love Otis Thorpe.
When Thorpe was with the Rockets and I was living in NY, I was more terrified of Thorpe than Olajuwon. Thorpe would come in and bully the bruising Knicks front line. He did it with his dominating physical presence and his flawless fundamentals. Patrick Ewing just couldn't score against Thorpe.
It broke me in half when Houston traded Thorpe for Drexler. I felt that the Rockets killed their chances at future championships by getting tid of Thorpe.