Thursday, July 5, 2012

JLin and Rockets Working On Details

With Lowry likely headed to Toronto, my wild guess would be they are trying to structure a deal that can't be matched by the Knicks. Maybe throw in a player option after 2nd year, incentives to reach 15 million in third year?

Then they will go hard after Dwight Howard, trading picks and their young talent.

54 comments:

  1. If Lowry heads to the Raptors & if Lin signs the deal will he be #7 or #17? But then again #17 jersey already have his name on it.

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  2. The Knicks can and will match anything at this point. They'll have no pt guard if they don't. He is and will be a Knick.

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    1. hmmmm.. I dont know if Knicks would really match a MAX contract. Maybe, but I have to believe that the news JLinfan#1 just posted makes me think they are structuring a max type deal. They may still match that I dont know...

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    2. It's not a MAX contract. If they don't match who are they going to use at pt? Felton, Mike James, CJ Watson, John Lucas, Sessions? This is an expensive but easy choice for NY.

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    4. I was thinking the Rockets did not give him an "offical" offer and are now trying to structure something that Knicks won't match. Maybe I'm confused on this but if the Rockets want him badly could they go back and try and structure something a bit harder to counter after all this talk we have heard already about 4 years and 30mill?

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    5. This is NOT an easy choice for NY.

      By virtue of their pitifully low $1 million offer to Lin, the Knicks have gambled that other teams would agree with their belief that he's nothing more than a 13th man shuttling in and out of the D league.

      Unfortunately, Houston clearly sees Lin's value and apparently has designated Lin as their prime PG target in free agency. Now the Knicks are stuck with the dilemma of paying $30 million to a guy they regard as a $1 million dollar 13th man.

      Should the Knicks sign Jeremy Lin, they'll severely limit their future ability to sign Chris Paul. The one incentive New York has with signing Lin is that he could be traded for Paul, but I doubt NY is thinking that far ahead. The Knicks are not going to pay $10 million a season to a PG who isn't a veteran All Star PG like Tony Parker.

      Given that Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire would prefer another point guard over Jeremy Lin, NY might not even match Houston's offer. Then Lin would be a Rocket.

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    6. You must be a Rockets fan. Nobody wants to play for the Rockets right now, not even their own players. Lin is just using them to set his value, that's all. It's just a little gamesmanship on his part.

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    7. But it is the Rockets, who are bowing down to Jeremy and showing him love. Not the Knicks. Not the over paid, over the hill, underachieving max contract, NBA Defensive Player of the Year, Knicks. The Rockets with their cast offs almost made the playoffs, so W/L they were about on par with the Knicks. Now imagine if the Rockets had our boy Lin. Maybe the Rockets wouldn't have done better, but the idea is very intriguing.


      Of course this has to do with gamesmanship, but at the same time, I'm sure the love the Rockets give Lin versus the crap he has to deal with in NY is being noticed by him.

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    8. K: "By virtue of their pitifully low $1 million offer to Lin"

      That's a standard qualifying offer, which is set by formula, to reserve the right of refusal, which made Lin a restricted, rather an unrestricted free agent.

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    9. You do remember the Rockets cut him over Flynn. And no one wants to play there because Morey treats everyone like a trading chip. He's not going there. NY fans overwhelmingly love him. A few don't but many and most do. His family is also in NY as well. No reason to go to Houston who won't be making the playoffs again.

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    10. Based on their Big 3 alone, the Knicks already don't have enough cap space to sign Paul outright as a free agent in 2013. Making a play for Paul would require a big trade, probably requiring a member of the Big 3. As you point out, Lin's salary would be a trading trip. It would be a somewhat odd chip for salary-matching because Lin's remaining salary will be 5/XX/(XX).

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    11. Good point: Lin's bros are at NYU and Hamilton College. Columbia ought to recruit Joseph Lin.

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    12. In the NBA, ALL players are trading chips.

      These are the Knicks we are talking about here. They will try to get the big names, even if it means shipping out the best talent to get it.

      Lin should play where he's wanted, not necessarily where his family lives.

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    13. So Nashed lied about wanting to be close to his kids when picking LA????

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    14. LA wanted Nash, almost more than he wanted them.

      Jeremy Lin is not Steve Nash. Jeremy Lin is Jeremy Lin.

      I'm an NBA fan with allegiance to the game, not any specific team. While I would love to see Lin playing for the Rockets, I'd be almost as happy seeing back on the Knicks.

      I want JLin to get that multiyear guaranteed contract as befits a player of his overwhelming production. I don't care who he gets that contract with.

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    15. A 5/XX/(XX) would be a jagged salary to match with. But if it turned out Lin's salary was the piece that made the pieces fit in a complicated trade for Paul (say, Chandler + Lin for Paul as the base of the deal), it could work out in Lin's favor.

      Eg, Lin gets his full regular and post-season reps during his 1 year as a Knick and then slides into Paul's seat as the starting PG of the young Clippers, if that's where Lin goes, if a multi-team deal. (Though Bledsoe may have something to say about that.) A trade would be a way for Lin to leave the Knicks early in his contract, with the base development benefit.

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  3. First, there are those seeing comments dismissive of or antagonistic towards Jeremy Lin on Houston Rockets websites. However, were they to frequent Toronto Raptor sites, they would see a slew of anti-Lin comments far exceeding those on Rocket sites. Let's keep in mind that Lin still has a lot of detractors, and that even New York Knicks sites have plenty of "let Lin walk" comments.

    But let's get to my main point: I'm still not quite sure why I’m hearing all this "loyalty” talk from people. New York signed Lin with a couple of their guards injured, and when they were expected to return (especially Baron Davis), the Knicks were going to cut Lin's contract. And even once they had Jeremy on the roster, they were playing Toney Douglas ahead of him. Finally, Mike D'Antoni (no hero at all at this point) decides to put Lin to see whether he could do anything before his guaranteed time with the Knicks ended. Then, after Lin's 25 and 28 point outbursts, the Knicks twiddle their thumbs and refuse to confirm that Lin will remain on the team until the last moment. Lin goes on a nice run. Then Carmelo comes back and refuses to run the offense and he and a couple of other players choose to play badly so the Knicks can lose and D'Antoni gets fired. At this point, D'Antoni looks like the most pro-Lin person in the organization, the only person who Lin could possibly feel loyalty towards (even though, in reality, D'Antoni waited a long time to play Jeremy and even considered trading for Deron Williams). Mike Woodson comes in, saying that he will shift the offense towards the stars (i.e. away from Lin), and remains elusive on the question of his starting point guard. He later says that Lin is a good but not very good point guard (though, to his credit, Woodson gave Lin starter's minutes - however, even this may have been born more of necessity than desire, with Baron Davis getting injured continually). Then Lin gets injured again, but of course the organization refuses to tell the public and quickly schedules several more interviews to make more money off of Jeremy. During the playoffs, with Lin's knee not fully healed, the neither the organization nor the doctors put out a clear statement about his lack of readiness to play, allowing the media to throw a plethora of insults at Lin doubting his "heart for the game." Once the season ends, Woodson again hems and haws on the question of the starting point guard's identity. The Knicks organization chooses not to offer Lin a max contract (so they can pay him the lowest possible salary), or, for that matter, any contract at all. They spend more time and energy trying to acquire Steve Nash than they do to make Lin feel valued in the organization. Loyalty? Please.

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    1. TL:DR?

      They gave him minutes not out of loyalty or respect, but because they had no choice. The NYK have disrespected everyday, and still do.

      IN OTHER WORDS, GET PAID SON, GET PAID!

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    2. The Houston Rockets have had an Asian player on their team before, Yao Ming, they don't have as much racial bias against Asians.

      The Toronto Raptors have never had an Asian player before. And signing Lin would likely drive a cultural wedge between White and Asian Raptors fans. Canada isn't as "color blind" as people seem to think, there's some deep racial tensions lingering underneath.

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    3. #1j-agreed, Thesis: The New York Knicks’ front office has proven itself to be an inept organization that displays a lack of respect for Jeremy Lin and a lack of appreciation for his talents. Therefore, statements concerning Jeremy Lin’s “loyalty” to the Knicks are laughable and flawed. (Even the one person who could possibly be deserving of Lin’s loyalty is no longer a part of the Knicks).

      That said, if the Knicks were to suddenly get rid of Carmelo Anthony (chances nil), many Lin fans in opposition to his return to the Knicks (especially those here) would immediately lose over 90% of their reservations about Lin continuing with the Knicks.

      ABC-Good point.

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    4. Lin's loyalty to the Knicks is moot. It's all about the Knicks' right of first refusal.

      The Knicks gave a standard qualifying offer to make Lin a restricted free agent. According to the media, the Knicks could not have offered Lin a max deal. They were limited to a 4/24 offer (or about 5 mil per with standard raises). The Knicks can't offer, but they can match a max backloaded contract. I don't understand the CBA enough to know why that is, but that's what's reported.

      It is an open question as to why the Knicks didn't come out the gate with a 4/24 offer.

      One theory is the Knicks expected Lin would be ignored and return humbled, ready to sign at the cheapest price.

      Another theory is that the Knicks delayed dealing with any and all free agents, their own included, until Nash's salary was decided, which would determine the remainder of the Knicks budget.

      A third theory is that Lin informed the Knicks beforehand that he would not accept 4/24 and would explore the market, which fits with Lin hiring a big-time agent last month.

      Choose to taste.

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    5. @Andy: 100% agree with every point you said, they are exactly what I was thinking.

      Knicks management never shows appreciation and respect towards Lin. They really don't deserve him. Otherwise, from the very first beginning, they should have always put Lin in their Plan A.

      They toyed with Lin, and now they found out they were toyed by Nash. I thank Nash for coincidentally help get revenge from dysfunctional Knicks organization.

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    6. Agreed that Nash played the Knicks.

      If the Knicks match the Rockets, they'll be showing their appreciation to Lin then. According to the media, the max offer the Knicks could have made to Lin was 4/24. The only way to pay Lin more than that was to match another team's offer.

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  4. Source: Jason Kidd, Knicks agreeUpdated: July 5, 2012, 4:41 PM ETBy Marc Stein | ESPN.com Recommend300Tweet194Comments156EmailPrint
    Kidd

    In an unforeseen reversal, Jason Kidd has decided to leave the Dallas Mavericks to join the New York Knicks, according to sources familiar with the decision.

    With the Mavericks confident that they were closing in Thursday on a verbal agreement on a three-year deal with Kidd worth $9 million, sources told ESPN.com that Kidd -- after all-day deliberations with both teams -- has decided instead to leave Dallas to join the Knicks for a similar deal.

    The contract can't actually be signed until July 11, which is the first day new NBA contracts can be signed. It's also possible, one source said, that Kidd could ultimately move to the Knicks in a sign-and-trade deal.

    Sources briefed on the matter told ESPN.com that Kidd was ultimately swayed to take the Knicks' offer to come to New York and take on the challenge of trying to help the Knicks move into the Eastern Conference and also mentor fans darling' Jeremy Lin.

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  5. Previous article about Kidd talking about mentoring Lin. Looks like the Knicks have every intention of bringing back Lin now with the Kidd signing. I fully believe now the pressure won't be on Lin, but on Melo.

    "Kidd spoke this week about possibly joining the Knicks and stated that he would enjoy helping to groom Lin as a player. He even stated that it would be "a lot of fun" and that he would like to "share the things" that made him an All-Star player for so many years. I do think that Kidd could offer a lot of valuable advice and insight to Lin, but it may all come down to whether the Knicks can afford to offer him more than the veteran's minimum."

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    1. The median and fan pressure has always been on Anthony since he joined the Knicks. More than Stoudemire, more than Chandler, certainly more than Lin. When Anthony passive-aggressively compelled D'Antoni's resignation, Anthony locked the pressure onto himself.

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  6. I wonder where the Mavs are in all of this. If they lose Jason Kidd, they will be stuck with no point guard .... Unless Donnie Nelson thinks that Rodrigue Beaubois is ready to be a starting PG, which I don't think he is.
    Beaubois is more of a Jason Terry shooter type of guard.

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    1. The Mavs are the surprise of the off-season in how passive they've been so far.

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  7. I wonder if this is just in case they dont get Lin? Maybe part of a S&T or something?

    http://arizona.sbnation.com/phoenix-suns/2012/7/5/3139493/aaron-brooks-rumors-houston-rockets-interested-in-free-agent-pg

    Also I read that dallas was talking to Ramon Sessions yesterday.

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  8. Yeah I forgot about Aaron Brooks. He played for Rockets in 2010-11, so maybe that's his most likely choice. But isn't Brooks a restricted FA also ?

    So if the Knicks do sign Kidd, that would eat up all their midlevel exception. Forget about Kenyon Martin, Felton, or any of the other FA's out there.

    This Knicks team is shallow enough, and they are going into 2012 season with even less depth than before. Not good.

    Knicks should sign James Singleton. He's a scrappy SF who can shoot 3's, defend bigs, and catch alley-oop lobs like crazy.

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    1. The Suns already got Goran Dragic and drafted a PG. It doesn't look like they want Brooks back. Only reason him they sign him is to use that in a sign and trade.

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  9. Looks like Jason Kidd will be starting for the Knicks in 2012-2013.

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    1. Lin's game is tailor-made for playing with Kidd, but
      I question how much Kidd has left in the tank.

      Kidd didn't make the effort to impress the market, like Nash did last season.

      If Kidd starts, assuming he has some usable degree of his game left, it's likely that Lin will start, too. Kidd only defends SGs anymore, and on offense, is often stationary and conducting, and shoots only when necessary. Kidd depends on a combo guard to do all the other guard things like slash, create, and score.

      Again assuming Kidd has game left, given how good he helped make JJ Barea look, Lin should benefit.

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  10. No chance, not after their old PG experiments with Davis and Bibby.

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    1. Kidd did not come close to matching Nash's effort to bolster his case as a free agent. Kidd missed 18 games and played only 28.7 MPG.

      I don't see Kidd's MPG going up, only down. If Kidd starts (so as not to get cold and stiff on the bench), I expect Lin would start at SG in a hybrid SG/PG combo role, then shift over to PG for the many minutes that Kidd has to rest.

      With Kidd, my greater concern is he's no longer able to play an adequate PG to relieve Lin and forces Woodson to overuse Lin.

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  11. Interesting that mentoring Lin is cited as a reason that Kidd chose the Knicks over the Mavs. Moreso since the Mavs were a candidate to make an offer to Lin.

    If the Knicks are using Lin's name to recruit free agents and it's not Kidd just talking off the cuff or reporters making stuff up, that sounds like the Knicks are 100% certain they're matching on Lin. If it's a bluff on the Knicks part, it's one heck of a bluff.

    I said earlier that Lin should shop around the Rockets offer to the Mavs, Warriors, Raptors, etc.. But if the Knicks are reinforcing their stated position of matching on Lin while the likeliest candidate teams are looking to other PGs, Lin needs to more urgently consider locking in the Rockets offer before they back off.

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  12. Jeremy Lin is trying to see if Dallas and Toronto can give a better offer before signing on the dotted line for Houston. If other teams don't come up with more money then he'll go with Rockets and ask the Knicks not to match (not that Knicks will listen to him). Bottom line though Houston wouldn't have traded Lowry if they didn't think Lin was coming. Lin would be accepted in Houston (former chinese star Ming was there and welcomed with open arms). For some reason I don't think the knicks comfortable with an Asian being a leader or star there. If you watched the NY Football player and celebs in the stands during games during linsanity..they were very reserved in their cheering and such cause it was weird to be paying money to watch an Asian play basketball. Jeremy would be much better off in Houston where he can be the Star and the main focal point like Linsanity. Dallas is too old a team, Toronto is too far away and no national media exposure. Everyone better start getting your Houston Rockets gear...it's going to happen.

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    1. also Jason Kidd mentioned that Lin would have to come off the bench in NY and learn the game and become a starter later in his career? What???? Oh my the writing is on the wall for Lin...get out of New York while you can.....he should be telling Knicks that they disrespected him (by not offering contract early and letting him squirm around first) and then by losing his best friend Landy Fields as well. Knicks are bunch of selfish AAU player type mentality...Anthony, JR, Amare...they are going nowhere ....Anthony and Amare will be at each other's throats by midseason and Kidd will be injured list not wanting to be part of this disaster...Lin has got to get out of dodge before it blows up.

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    2. Jason Kidd has said that he would be happy to back up Lin.

      Believe it or not, Lin can help Kidd too. Lin's ability to draw defenses creates open shots for Kidd. Lin's defensive abilities also relieve Kidd of having to chase the young ultraquick guards that he easily locked up for the majority of his career.

      If Woodson plays Kidd and Lin together, it'll be the first time in Lin's Knick career that he steps onto a court alongside a player who can actually dribble the ball past the halfcourt line. Less turnovers.

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    3. this was from the NY Post article about Kidd coming to Knicks...
      “Eventually, yeah, Lin will have the tools. He still has to learn the game, but I think eventually he’ll be a starter in this league.’’
      Seems to me that Kidd believes or has been told that he will be the starter and Lin coming off the bench. Lin needs to run not walk away from the Knicks!

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    4. K: "Believe it or not, Lin can help Kidd too."

      That's an understatement. At this point of his career, Kidd *needs* to play with combo guards like Lin in order to be effective.

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  13. Lin just signed Houston's offer sheet...

    Let's see what the exact terms are...

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  14. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS, I hope JLIn signs with the Rockets. It is a much better fit for him without the distraction of Amare and Iso Melo and now lol J Kidd...really? -_- All I can say is Rockets all the way!! It will be like the time where JLin was under Mike D'toni without Melo.

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    1. Many Lin fans believe the strain of the "Secretariat" load that Lin carried during Linsanity and under D'Antoni led to his wear-and-tear knee injury.

      The hope and expectation is that as Lin matures into a veteran, he'll learn to moderate his game, and his coach his minutes, so he won't get hurt and miss the play-offs again.

      We can trust Woodson and Lin's veteran teammates on the Knicks (including and especially, hopefully, Kidd) will relieve the strain on Lin while he matures into a veteran.

      Would the rebuilding Rockets take care of Lin like that? Or would it "be like the time where JLin was under Mike D'toni without Melo"?

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    2. Wear and tear was precisely because of the condensed 66 game schedule. That was brutal and bad for the NBA. Many notable players got injured.

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    4. Eric....JLin is still young and he will be with a team that will build around him and value him totally I assume. My point is JLin will flourish in Houston with out the again DISTRACTIONS of the NBA personal he has to deal with on the Knicks. ISO Melo will always be a problem and now jKidd lol Amare isn't working for me either. I also don't like the Knicks coach, he is not offensively minded and his lack of "good" coaching ability showed during the playoffs against the Heat. LOL

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    5. That's right: Lin is still young. In 3 or 4 years, when Lin is a free agent again, he'll be a mature veteran. He'll take everything he learned as a Knick and he'll be ready to carry the full load of being the centerpiece of a team that goes on play-off runs. Perhaps that team will even be the Knicks.

      Just like when a mature veteran Nash left the Mavs to take over the Suns.

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    6. Such thinking that the wear and tear of Linsanity alone is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

      Lin has been physically hurling himself against the negative Asian stereotypes for years. The NBA was the greatest challenge of his life, and Lin hurled himself even harder than he did when teams were targeting him in college.

      Every practice, Lin battled as if he'd be kicked out of the NBA for making a single error. In fact, Lin was kicked out of the NBA 4 times! It was Lin hurling himself as a human battering ram that got him back into the league to even be on the Knick roster for Linsanity.

      With Lin having to lay his life on the line every time he walked onto an NBA practice court or was given garbage minutes, it's miraculous that Lin didn't blow out both his knees. Yet it's a testimony to Lin's athletic talent and incredible mental strength that he "only" endured his knee injury.

      The injured knee is the result of a full DECADE of Lin spectacularly using himself as a basketball battering ram in sneakers to beat through the negative racial stereotypes that STILL dog him in the NBA.
      Lin is the greatest warrior I have ever seen in the NBA. No star has ever overcome as much negativity to earn his rightful place among the best basketball players in the world.

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    7. edit: "Such thinking that the wear and tear of Linsanity alone was solely the case for Lin's knee injury is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE".

      It's not as if Lin was lah-dah-dah-ing his way to NBA practices and games at Golden State, Houston, and New York.

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  15. I don't buy that Kidd genuinely wants to mentor a young PG. It's just a good PR thing to say. It's one thing if a veteran developed a relationship with a young player on his own team, and wants to mentor them. But no one changes teams so they can mentor a player they have no relationship with.

    Kidd wants to go to the Knicks because he feels that they have the talent with Chandler, Melo, Amare, and that he can be the veteran PG to make the puzzle pieces fit together and utilize each player to their potential.

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  16. This guy couldn't have said it better, there shouldn't even be an argument why linsanity ends.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSW0EZz6vk&feature=related

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