Friday, July 6, 2012

Congrats To JLin

We want to send our congratulations to Jeremy and his family, especially his Mom and Dad, on receiving the multi-million dollar offer sheet from the Houston Rockets. Also, congrats to all that have helped JLin along the way. Jeremy has amazing God given talent but he has also had great coaches, mentors, and family support throughout. Along with that, JLin's hard work, dedication, faith, and perseverance have taken him to amazing heights and he has been deservedly blessed and rewarded!

161 comments:

  1. Since 4th year is a team option, it's really a 3-yr $20M contract. I can't see the Knicks not matching that. Guess Lin will remain a Knick. I wasn't very high on Houston anyways.

    If Kidd is willing to genuinely mentor Lin (as opposed to just saying for PR sake), that could be huge for Lin. I wouldn't mind Kidd being the starting PG, hopefully he can solve the mystery of how to utilize Chandler, Melo, Amare all at the same time. Then Lin can come off the bench and emulate Kidd's blueprint. I envision Kidd getting 18-20 mins and Lin getting 36-40 (they may have some overlap time).

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    1. If Kidd starts, he'll need Lin to start with him.

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  2. Very well put. At this moment in time, the Rockets need Jeremy more than the Knicks. I'd rather see him in a Knicks uniform next season, but I will pull for any team that JLin plays for. It's just unbelievable that the kid I saw play live at the state championships in Sacto(Arco Arena) in 2006 is now on the verge of signing a large NBA contract. And to show my age, Jeremy and another kid(Jason Kidd) who I saw win state championships when the game was played at the Oakland Coliseum may become teammates with the Knicks.

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  3. I'm happy for Lin. Whether the Knicks match the offer (most likely) or he goes to the Rockets ... he finally has a multi-year guaranteed contract. He can't be waived or cut from any team anymore.

    Lin's contract with Golden State was not guaranteed, they waived him to clear cap space to pursue Deandre Jordan. His contract with Houston was not guaranteed, they cut him at the beginning of the season to make a roster spot for Samuel Dalembert.

    In New York he was still playing on a one-year non guaranteed contract. That's when Linsanity convinced the league, he was here to stay.

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    1. He's arrived, no doubt. Next up: lead his team to the play-offs and then carry his team on a play-off run.

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    2. I agree with Eric.

      $30 million is nothing to sneeze at.

      That's a big time NBA contract with heavily backloaded years. Either Lin or the Knicks can get rid of each other in the 4th year.

      Meanwhile, Lin can just focus on basketball. And if he plays as well as he did for Woodson right before knee surgery, he'd totally justify his contract AND pick up endorsement money. But I expect Lin to play better now that he has two legs and a guaranteed contract.

      Eric and I might be in the minority here in that I suspect we believe that Lin just signed a FAIR contract.

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    3. Endorsements. Totally forgot about endorsements. If Lin is able to attain and maintain an All-Star level of play, he will make so much money through endorsements that it will make his $30 million salary seem like a pittance by comparison. Lin will get Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/David Beckham type endorsement money. So, folks really need to quit the hand-wringing and oppression narratives and instead just step back and let the man play basketball.

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    4. This contract is Lin's 1st 'career' NBA contract. It's not his last.

      In 3 or 4 years, when Lin has developed his game, established himself as a mature veteran and team leader on a win-now team, and built up his track record, especially in the post-season, he'll be up for a much bigger contract. That contract may well come from the then-rebuilding Knicks.

      With the Knicks, Lin will be going to the post-season this year. It's important that he at least holds his own there. Assuming the Knicks will earn a higher seed, which they should, Lin will have the advantage in the 1st round. From the 2nd round on, Lin will have the ball in his hands against the top contenders at their best. That's the bar.

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    5. Unknown: True, Lin and the Knicks should make bank with endorsements. What I look forward to is the day when the talk is basketball first and fans say Lin has earned his endorsements by being the best on the court.

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    6. It's not fair to low ball a player just cuz he has endorsements.

      Jordan, Woods, Beckham money..... those three guys would have laughed in your face if you as a GM, PGA tour director, MLS comissioner (cuz all MLS contracts are shared) said without discussion, "we're not paying you because you have endoresements. We're gonna pay this guy who is at best as good as you, but likely worse.... more money because he doesn't have endorsements."

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  4. Absolutely. Congrats.

    It just saddens me to see how likely the Knicks are going to match the offer, and hence Jeremy will be putting up with Woodson/Melo again...

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  5. Jason Kidd quote: "Lin was playing extremely well before he got hurt and they were playing well so we’ll see what happens. Eventually, yeah, Lin will have the tools. He still has to learn the game but I think eventually he’ll be a starter in this league."

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1238855-knicks-rumors-signing-jason-kidd-would-be-smart-frugal-move-for-new-york

    Whoa there, Kidd doesn't think Lin is worthy to be a starter yet? I have my doubts about reports that Kidd chose NYK because he wanted to mentor a young and upcoming PG. It's not like they had a relationship where Kidd would genuinely want to mentor him. I think Kidd chose NYK because Tyson, Melo, Amare would give him a shot at a championship. And he just said that he is open to "mentoring" Lin for PR purposes.

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    1. I wouldn't put much stock in that quote. Kidd probably just misspoke.

      I mean, you hear athletes make mistakes like that all the time (they didn't all go to Harvard). Lin's already the Knicks starting PG so what Kidd says doesn't make sense.

      That said, I agree that the whole "Kidd wants to mentor Lin" angle is dubious.

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    2. I think that "Kidd wants to mentor Lin" is dubious from this sense:

      Kidd is going to be the one getting schooled in practice, not Lin.

      Kidd just signed up for 3 years of Linbarrassment.

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    3. Kidd's statement is fair insofar that Lin is still in the process of converting from college SG/combo to NBA PG. As an SG/combo? Lin's game is complete. As a PG? Lin is above-average based on his strengths, but has areas he needs to develop and improve.

      Nash would have been a better mentor for Lin because their games are more similar. Still, Kidd has a lot of useful experience.

      Based on last season, Nash has enough game for 1, maybe 2, seasons. Kidd looked shot last season. I don't worry that Kidd will push Lin aside. I worry that Kidd doesn't have enough left in the tank to ensure that Lin won't be overused. Kidd's MPG and over-all numbers have been dropping sharply the past few seasons. That trend will not reverse.

      A good usage of Lin will be a balanced, efficient 33-35 MPG. With Kidd, Woodson may be forced to play Lin at PG and SG with a high-usage 38-40 MPG.

      Kidd may have to start. Not because he's better than Lin, not at this point of his career. But because the remaining things Kidd can do reliably - space the floor, pass and conduct the offense in the half court, spot up for outlet 3s - match the need to manage the "clumsy" starting unit. Kidd would be borderline useless with the 2nd unit.

      Kidd needs to play with Lin. Reference: Kidd-Barea, Kidd-Terry, Kidd-West. If Kidd starts, Lin needs to start, too. Kidd needs to play with a combo guard who will defend PGs (Kidd defends SGs exclusively now) and do the guard things that Kidd no longer does, such as run in transition, slash, cut, create, and score. Lin's game is tailor-made to complement Kidd, but that's said with the hope Kidd has enough of his game left to complement Lin.

      If Lin plays a lot of SG/combo with Kidd and PG backing up Kidd, the Knicks will need another PG or combo on the bench, whether that's Shumpert, JR Smith, or another free agent.

      Like Nash, Kidd's real job begins in the post-season.

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    4. "If Lin plays a lot of SG/combo with Kidd and PG backing up Kidd, the Knicks will need another PG or combo on the bench, whether that's Shumpert, JR Smith, or another free agent."

      How about Lou Williams? He's not re-signing with the Sixers. He would be great off the bench.

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    5. ...... He still has to learn the game but I think eventually he’ll be a starter in this league."


      People still trying to justify the backhanded double tandards..........

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    6. I don't know much about Lou Williams except that he came off the 76ers bench as a gunner. He is only 25 and quick. With the Knicks having so many veterans in the front of their rotation, other than Lin, filling out the bench with youth and athleticism makes sense.

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  6. Basically, the market valued JLin's worth -- with all of his marketing power -- lower than Dragic. Even if JLin turns out to be just a back-up PG, you would think he would get more money for his marketing power. I guess not. Knicks definitely is going to make money off JLin, rather than lose money, even if JLin becomes a back-up PG.

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    1. Because of the salary cap, you can't pay guys based on marketing power anymore. Guys' salaries have to go towards building a winning team, not selling tickets and merchandise. Also, see what I wrote below. Every contract you sign sets a precedent for other players seeking the same deal. So breaking the bank for Lin after 26 games allows the next undrafted free agent to demand a huge deal. Granted, Lin's performance was record-setting, so that makes it easier to pay the $30 million. But what if a guy who is merely pretty good demands half of what Lin got? If that half is $15 million, it isn't that big of a deal. But if you pay Lin $60 million and because of that have to pay every undrafted rookie who plays reasonably well $30 million, then that becomes a huge problem.

      That is why Lin fans have to realize that the NBA is a business and just sit back and let the business play out. Look at it this way: is that if Lin turns out to be a superior player, he will be able to sign the same $10 million contract that Jason Kidd did when he is 39 and can't play anymore. The NBA system is set up to protect and give huge financial rewards and job security to its veterans, and Lin will benefit from that system when he becomes a veteran.

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    2. If the next undrafted free agent can put up a historic start like Lin did and lead two different franchises in PER while earning $300 million for his franchise in under 30 games, that player would probably get a bigger contract than Lin did this year especially if Lin improves his game next year.

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    3. KHuang:

      Well, I have already put out the challenge asking about the last guy to get a huge contract after playing 1200 minutes. No one was able to answer because it hasn't happened. Therefore, it is inappropriate to presume that the next guy will get an even bigger contract after playing 1200 - or ever 2400 - minutes.

      Also, the $300 million thing is irrelevant. Teams never have compensated players based on their marketability. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan ... none of them ever made an extra dime of NBA salary because they drove attendance, ratings and merchandising.

      But the good news is that when Lin becomes a vested NBA veteran, he will benefit from its system just like all the other veterans do.

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    4. It looks like the Rockets have a budget and negotiated with Lin from within that budget, ie, the amount they offered to Lin fit within the predetermined amount they were willing to offer any free-agent PG.

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    5. Because of the salary cap overpaying a (relative) little bit for a guy that can make you 300 million dollars in a year makes a ton of sense. Especially, a good player of Lin's caliber.

      That team would still make a ton of money even after all luxury taxes has been said and done. The 300 million Lin made the Knicks just last year alone, would make up for AND THEN SOME any luxury taxes due to Lin's contract for the rest of his playing career.

      Even considering the punitive tax growth of the salary cap....


      Now 300 million last year, plus whatever big time money Lin would make the Knicks in the years to come (I've seen estimates of 40 million)..... Yeah.....


      And teams do sign on marketability or at least try. Just recently, the Raptors might have only offered Nash 12 mil a year, but the cost of trying to sign Nash needs to include that poisonous contract they signed Landry Fields to box out the Knicks.

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    6. The added marketing value Lin had for the Knicks is a main component of the argument that the Knicks would match any offer for Lin, including a max offer.

      But what about other teams? Remember, the max offer the Knicks could make was 4/24. Another team needed to extend a max offer in order for the Knicks to match. But could Lin guarantee another team, the Rockets or anyone else, he would make the same amount of money for them off the court as he made for the Knicks last season, looking ahead to next season and beyond?

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  7. I don't get it. Kidd is getting $9 mil for 3yrs, and Lin is getting $20 for 3yrs. Why is Kidd starting over Lin?

    I don't believe Kidd in the first place. He looks like a thug to me. He's only taking care of himself and never intend to help anyone. Lin will learn to play in Houston or NY. He doesn't need mentoring. He's smart, athletic, and works hard. He'll be fine anywhere.

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    1. I don't believe Kidd either. I doubt he respects Lin all that much. Remember the game in Dallas when he tried to decapitate Lin?

      Kidd sounds like he expects to start.

      Lin is gonna have to earn respect all over again, and will probably be required to do so every year of his entire career, and even if he has sustained success, even then "they" probably still won't give him respect. I hope this gives him a huge chip on his shoulder and motivates him. It sucks, but such is the reality of his burden.

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    2. "He looks like a thug to me."

      So what exactly do thugs look like? Please tell me.

      "He's only taking care of himself and never intend to help anyone."

      Well, as you obviously aren't going to take care of him, then his taking care of himself is a good thing. Right? Or do we need more people in this country and world with the skills and mindset to take care of themselves, or fewer?

      Look, genius. This is the NBA, not some youth league for middle-schoolers. The NBA is for grown men out to earn a living. Jeremy Lin is one of those grown men ... 23 years old (will be 24 when the season starts). No one is going to hand Lin anything, nor should they.

      So if Lin can't beat out a 39 year old career .401 scorer - who recently hasn't even been able to maintain that - then it is all on him.

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    3. No it's not all on Jeremy Lin.

      Coaches play whoever they want, regardless of production. That's why Kevin Love couldn't beat out Ryan Hollins for the starting power forward job in MN.

      One thing's for sure. Lin has led Golden State and New York in PER the last two seasons. That's not going to change by adding Jason Kidd.

      Besides, Lin just might end up starting anyway. We'll see what Woodson does.

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    4. KHuang:

      "That's why Kevin Love couldn't beat out Ryan Hollins for the starting power forward job in MN."

      Ryan Hollins only played in Minnesota for the 2009 season, and only started 27 games. Kevin Love started 22 games in 2009, and missed 1/4 of that season due to injury. After the 2009 season, Minnesota traded Hollins and kept Love. So while I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong - because Lenny Wilkens was famous for ruining promising young players by sticking them on the bench for no good reason - your particular example helped my point.

      But based on watching Woodson in Atlanta - and with the Knicks by the way - I have no reason to believe that Woodson won't play the better player. Woodson favoring Melo over Lin as the team's #1 player is a completely different issue from Woodson not wanting Lin to be his starting PG.

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    5. A healthy Kevin Love finished out the 2009 season playing behind Ryan Hollins because the Wolves felt Ryan Hollins was a better starter.

      Even then, Kevin Love was doing the "Jeremy Lin" by being a super producer in decreased minutes. There was no excuse to start Hollins over Love, just as there would be no excuse to start Kidd over Lin.

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    6. KHuang:

      And after 2009, the Wolves kept Love and dumped Hollins' salary - thereby cementing Love's status - because they knew that Love was a better player. If the same thing happens in the New York - where Kidd got the nod early because Woodson or Melo prefers him but Lin supplanted him after a season or less - then that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. It wouldn't be the ideal thing - which would be for Lin to start right away - but there is a huge difference between less than ideal and bad.

      Really, I don't see much of a downside here. Kidd is coming to New York to start, not sit on the bench, and I don't blame him for wanting to start. Kidd also chose New York because he thinks that it is a good situation with Melo, Stoudemire, Chandler, Smith, Shumpert hopefully and LIN. Had the Knicks signed some journeyman nobody, then A) it would have hurt the team because the Knicks do need a backup PG and B) Lin's beating him out for the starting job would not have been an accomplishment. As a matter of facts, the critics would claim that the Knicks shielded Lin from competition.

      But after beating out Kidd and leading a 50+ win team into the playoffs, Lin's detractors won't have a leg to stand on. I really do think that this is better for Lin's long term career, even if it won't be spent in New York.

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    7. I said a lot of this upthread:

      Kidd may have to start because what remains of his game matches the particular need to manage the "clumsy" starting unit. Kidd's game is borderline useless with the second unit. Even as a starter, though, Kidd would likely only play bench guard minutes.

      Kidd looked shot last season. His MPG has been in a sharp decline. Woodson's task in the regular season is to preserve Kidd for the post-season.

      Kidd starting may in fact force Lin to also start and play more, higher-usage MPG because Kidd needs to play with a combo guard to do all the guard things that Kidd no longer does. Thus, Lin may be forced into double-duty: SG/combo with Kidd as well as PG.

      There's a good chance that whatever game Kidd has left next season will be entirely evaporated by the 2nd season.

      I worry less that Kidd will push Lin aside and worry more that Kidd means Lin will be overused.

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    8. Eric:

      Iman Shumpert will do the combo guard stuff with Kidd. Shumpert is a good talent who should become a pretty decent NBA player.

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    9. Shumpert is going to miss a lot of the season, which is a major chunk of Kidd's remaining career. I hope Shumpert returns as good as he was when his knee blew out. He's young enough, so we can be optimistic about a full recovery, but there's a chance he won't be as athletic when he does return.

      Shumpert covers the x-match on defense and I think Kidd can play with Shumpert, but as Kidd's game continues to shrink, he's also leaving PG things on the table. Shumpert doesn't have the game to cover all of them.

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    10. Yeah, MN got rid of Hollins because their belief that he was better than Kevin Love FAILED MISERABLY.

      Not surprisingly, ex coach Kurt Rambis is out of the NBA too.

      After the Knicks start Kidd over Jeremy Lin, everybody will know how STUPID it was to start the declined Kidd over the NBA's best young point guard.

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    11. The Knicks signed Kidd hoping for the highly respected elder-statesman PG they wanted in Nash to direct their star-based offense. Kidd's game is limited and specific now to where if he doesn't start, I don't know he can be useful in any other role.

      If Kidd starts, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll finish games either.

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    12. "He looks like a thug to me."

      So what exactly do thugs look like? Please tell me.


      Thugs kinda look like this:

      "NBA star Jason Kidd was charged and pleaded guilty to domestic abuse in January 2001. Kidd was ordered to attend anger management classes."

      http://www.clumsycrooks.com/mugshots/jason_kidd.htm

      And this:

      "A bad history'
      Suns' Kidd faces abuse charge, sits out game"
      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2001/01/19/kidd_apology_ap/

      Let's hope Jason Kidd understands that his job description of "mentoring" of JLin and the Knicks doesn't include dispensing tips on how to beat up wives/girlfriends.

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  8. It's an improvement for Lin but nothing to celebrate about. He put up better season and starter stats than Dragic, and younger with mire potentail, but Dragic got more money and more support from fans.
    Lin also got no interest from the Mavs, Raptors, Nets, Warriors, etc. it wasn't just interest on Nash, teams were passing him over to get Ramon Sessions, Lowry, and Kidd. It's his life story over again, no matter what he does he gets lowball offers based on the soft bigotry of low expectations for being Asian American

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    1. And who were all these fans that gave Dragic more support than Linsanity?

      And yes, Dragic got $4 million more than Jeremy Lin. Playing in 271 games - and averaging 17 minutes a game for his first 3 years even before he became an occasional starter in his 4th - as opposed to Lin's 64 career games is why.

      Instead of getting paid less because he is Asian, Lin getting $30 million after playing 1200 whole NBA minutes is unprecedented. Name another young player who got that sort of payday since the NBA put in their rookie pay scale. Name another young player who has EVER gotten that sort of a payday after 64 games after going undrafted.

      That is why Lin "got no interest from the Mavs, Raptors, Nets, Warriors, etc.". I have stated ever since I began commenting here months ago that the NBA is not going to change the way that it has done business for decades because of Jeremy Lin. If Lin is going to succeed in the NBA, he is going to have to do it the way that every NBA player before him has had to do it in the past.

      It really is no big deal. Lin gets $20 million the next 3 years - which is a whole lot more than future Hall of Famer Ben Wallace got early in his career - and in year 4 the Knicks will either give him a max contract, or trade him to a team that will. By that time, the Knicks will have decided whether to fish or cut bait with Melo, Stoudemire, Chandler etc.

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    2. I agree with Unknown.

      I couldn't and wouldn't have written anything better myself.

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    3. "Instead of getting paid less because he is Asian, Lin getting $30 million after playing 1200 whole NBA minutes is unprecedented. Name another young player who got that sort of payday since the NBA put in their rookie pay scale. Name another young player who has EVER gotten that sort of a payday after 64 games after going undrafted."

      This is true, but there's another side to that coin. Name another player who has ever done what Lin did once given the starting job. Name another player who did what Lin did in his first 10 or so starts. What he did was historic and nearly unprecedented. I think it all balances out, and the contract is fair. It's now up to Lin to live up to or exceed the expectations that come along with the contract.

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    4. achondroplasiaphobia:

      I never said that Lin's contract was unfair. I just said that there is no basis for claiming that Lin was underpaid because he is Asian.

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    5. Do anyone know realize if lin is not Asian. His hype would started from high school and some colleges would recruited him and train him with the best hall of fame pg. Would his success be different than now? Remember what Kobe said about lin.Now he has a bulleye on him.. Lin embarrass a lot of star NBA players in that two months

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    6. wayne li:

      And if Lin wasn't Asian, there wouldn't have been Linsanity. He wouldn't have been the most famous and marketable athlete in the world. He wouldn't be on Time Magazine's most influential list. And he wouldn't be on his way to being the highest paid athlete in the world which he will be once the endorsements kick into high gear. Wayne Li, it may have offended a lot of people, but what Floyd Mayweather said about Lin had a bit of truth to it. Poorly articulated, mind you, but still true in some respects. Were Lin not Asian, he'd be just another star NBA player that no one other than NBA fans care about. Just like had Jackie Robinson not broken the pro sports color barrier, he would have been just another star baseball player. Sure, he would have been in the Hall of Fame, but how many people can even name 10 Hall of Fame baseball players, even if they are sports fans?

      Bottom line: Lin is the starting Knicks point guard, very rich and will in a few years - possibly a few months with endorsements - be a lot richer.

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    7. Also, it's not known that other teams, especially the candidates we proposed, weren't interested in Lin. It may be that they weren't interested in signing Lin at this point of his career at the price necessary to maybe pull him away from the Knicks. Especially after the Knicks had stated they would match any offer.

      When Lin signs this contract July 11, he will have completed a critical, wonderful stage of his basketball life. He will be paid well and, if he does what we think he will, he'll be paid better in the future. Of note, he's being paid more - if the Knicks exercise the team option - than the maximum offer the Knicks could have given him outright. If the Knicks decline the team option, Lin could be up for his superstar payday even sooner.

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    8. Eric:

      That is a good point. Why bother signing Lin to an offer sheet if they know the Knicks are going to match? The Knicks would have had no PG - and not a very good situation at SG - without Lin. And everybody expects them to compete for the playoffs because of all the big contracts. It is more likely that they wanted him, but weren't willing to pay him more than the Knicks were.

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    9. I agree with Wayne Li.

      Brushing aside Lin's struggles to get to the NBA are an utter INSULT to his proud Asian heritage.

      Jeremy Lin is a great player who is STILL undervalued because he's Asian.

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    10. It's important to remember that Goran Dragic already has a history with the Suns and head coach Alvin Gentry. He's familiar with their system and played with most of the players.

      Jeremy Lin only played for Dallas in summer league, Houston in pre-season, and never played for the Raptors at all.

      The Suns were willing to pay full price for someone they know, even if they overpaid.

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    11. Using Unknown's twisted logic, any player with simply more minutes (like Brisn Scalabrine) deserves a higher contract than a younger comparable player who produced more but played less games. It's such a dumb argument with so many holes and examples showing otherwise. Talent always trumps simply being there longer. The "precedent " argument is ludicrous when nobody has ever done what Lin did since he was misevaluated the entire time, and since teams still give out big contracts with players who showed even less.

      As for the other moronic remark Unknown made, he clearly didn't see Golden State last year where Lin had a 15 PER as a rookie, led the team in adjusted plus minus, led the league in steals and blocks per min among guards, but was buried by his prejudiced coach all year behind maybe the worst guard in the league Acie Law. You can't blame Lin's limited opportunities as any proof of his talent, Unknown does this all the time bc he refuses to acknowledge that being Asian American has hurt Lin.

      The problem with Unknown, definitely a black guy in media who thinks like Mayweather, is he cant admit Lin has faced prejudice and bigotry which affects his opportunities and offers. He takes Lin's limited minutes as somehow blaming Lin, or takes Lin as a DLeaguer or undrafted player as a reflection of Lin's takent. People like this can't handle the possibility, the truth that Lin was misevaluated pretty much his entire career, not his fault. It's really odd how black media people can't admit Lin faces prejudice and bigotry , coming from that racial group with a history experiencing it in American society

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    12. Lin has been given a 4/29-mil (or 3/20-mil) contract by the Rockets/Knicks after he played 1225 minutes over 2 seasons.

      Brian Scalabrine was given an 800K/900K contract by the Nets after he played 1014 minutes over 2 seasons.

      After 3109 minutes over 4 seasons with the Nets, Veal was given a 5/15-mil contract by the Celtics. (At the time, Nets fans were surprised by the Celtics' generous contract and sad to lose him. He was popular.) He's now making 1+ mil per with the Bulls.

      It looks like a larger, longer sample size does factor into a bigger contract - Scalabrine wasn't exactly a breakthrough star when the Celtics hired him. But clearly, the amount offered scales up with talent, too.

      PS: I was a fan of Veal when he was a Net. Smart, knew the plays and executed his role in them, spaced correctly, moved correctly, made the right pass, set the right screen, moved his feet well on defense. Was limited, but made few mistakes. Was at his best when playing with stars and making their jobs easier on the floor by doing all the little things right. Played hard. Could handle ball decently for a PF. Couldn't post-up, couldn't rebound, had no vertical, wasn't quick, poor jump shot despite good form. If he could just hit the corner 3 with consistency, Veal would have been able to stick in a rotation. I thought he would have benefited by going to Europe out of USC and developing his game overseas before considering the NBA.

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    13. Ugh.

      Using Brian Scalabrine as an excuse to underpay Jeremy Lin is like using Delonte West as a reason to underpay Deron Williams.

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    14. Nah, the comment above mine used Veal in an attempt to argue that sample size is not a normal factor when evaluating NBA players for contract offers.

      In fact, Veal's salary history showed that his contract increased modestly when his sample size and years played were roughly about Lin's now. Then his salary increased dramatically when his sample size and years played reached another level. Veal's talent did not change with either pay increase.

      Lin's higher talent demands higher pay than Veal at the same-level sample size, of course. Later, just as Veal's pay jumped with a reliable sample size, when Lin has built up a reliable sample size, his pay should jump, too.

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    15. It's IDIOTIC to compare a nonplayer like Brian Scalabrine who is strictly a practice player to an All Star level talent like Lin.

      Scalabrine does his work behind the scenes and is not expected to produce on the court. Jeremy Lin is expected to produce on the court and should get paid like it based on what he has already done.

      Brian Scalabrine's ample sample size demonstrated that he couldn't play, but he's a darling of NBA scouts and thus gets paid. Jeremy Lin is universally disliked by scouts because he is Asian, and so nobody wants to pay him. BAMBOO CEILING.

      It is an utter INSULT to compare a career benchwarmer like Scalabrine to a STAR like Lin. Their situations could not be more opposite.

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    16. Veal got paid 2/1.7 based on 1000+ min over 2 seasons. Lin will get paid 4/29 (or 3/20) based on 1200+ min over 2 seasons.

      I think that disparity accounts for their very different talent levels.

      The point of this is showing the impact of sample size in NBA decision-making, not equating Lin and Veal's talent.

      Scalabrine just stands out as a useful example because, first, Anonymous brought him up, and second, he got a much bigger raise with a larger sample size though he was pretty much the same player after 3000+ min and 4 years that he was after 1000+ min and 2 years in the NBA.

      When Lin is up for his next raise, he'll be valued differently, too.

      Delete
    17. Sample size doesn't matter to NBA GMs, no matter what you think.

      That's how Enes Kanter gets drafted #3 for playing zero NCAA minutes, how the constantly injured Brook Lopez and Eric Gordon are going to receive max contracts, and how Greg Oden earned millions by being injured (and far less productive than Jeremy Lin).

      Emotion, not logic, is how NBA GMs make their decisions. That's why the best player on the Nets cannot get a home - Kris Humphries.

      It is USELESS to try to use logic to define NBA scouting and salary evaluations.

      Delete
  9. The guy that averaged 6 pts and 5 asts will probably start over the guy that averaged 18 as a starter.

    Only in NY.

    However, let the beatings in practice begin. Jason Kidd is going to be Lin's punching bag for the next 3 years, no matter who starts.

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    2. If Kidd starts, that doesn't mean he's better than Lin. It's more about Kidd's match with the starting line-up and his limitations. Starting likely is the only way Kidd can be useful.

      Kidd makes it more likely that Lin will be overused at both SG and PG.

      Delete
  10. Oh come on. Kidd won't start. Kidd isn't Nash Old. He's Derek Fisher Old. That is, you don't watch him and say, "Wow! That guy can still play!" You say, "Whoa, that guy's still playing?"

    But even if Woodson ignores current skill-level (and he might)...

    Dolan is not going to bring Lin back just to have him sit on a bench (unless they got Nash). Linsanity money comes from Lin The Starting PG. Not to mention half the MSG crowd would boo Kidd during intros and constantly chant, "We-want-Lin, we-want-Lin" while Kidd is playing.

    And trust me, that could easily happen if Kidd starts ahead of Lin, esp. since Kidd isn't exactly beloved in NY.

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    1. I think there's a good chance Kidd will start, not because he's better than Lin, but because starting is the only way he can be useful. Even if a starter, Kidd won't play starter's minutes.

      If Kidd starts, there's a good chance Lin will have to start with Kidd in order to do all the guard things that Kidd doesn't do anymore.

      As a SG/combo next to Kidd, Lin will get to show off his Linsanity strengths (slashing, creating, scoring, running the break). Lin will get to show his off the ball game. Then when Kidd, who can't play starter's minutes anymore, sits, Lin will play PG.

      Kidd is no threat to Lin's rise. The threat of Kidd is that Lin will be overused at SG and PG.

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    2. lol, fisher old. imo woodson will snap their acls making lin and kidd compete for the starting spot.

      Delete
  11. By the way, as you guys can see on this site's sidebar, Larry Brown becomes the first notable voice to say: "Think twice about matching Lin." Dolan did hire him as Knicks coach, so maybe they think a little bit alike...

    Is there a chance Morey knows something we don't? Maybe he honestly believes the Knicks "We'll match anything" is a bluff?

    I just don't see how Morey lets Dragic and Lowry go, wines & dines Lin on a holiday, hangs a "Welcome Back Jeremy" banner on the arena, gushes about him to media, asks Rocket fans to give JLin a shout-out on Twitter...and then offers such an easily match-able amount to the Knicks.

    Then again, GMs acting crazy/stupid is nothing unusual.

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    1. I think the Rockets have a predetermined budget, and the offer to Lin was made within the 'free agent PG' allocation.

      Delete
  12. To the guy saying Goran Dragic is worth more than Jeremy Lin - so what if Dragic has played more minutes in his entire NBA career? Dragic is 28 years old, was a lifelong backup, averaged 3-7 points a game every season until this one, and somehow those are all positives?

    Dragic started 28 games this year, Jeremy Lin started 26 games. Yet people talk as if Dragic's 28 games cement his talent as a starter, whereas every article is filled with comments bashing Lin saying he's a flash in the pan for his 26 starts. Lin produced AND won against elite NBA teams with untalented teammates, then with talented lazy teammates, first with an offensive coach, then a defensive coach. Irrational haters love to single out that one Miami game, without pointing out it was Lin's 12th game in 16 days. It's just like scouts who ignored everything Lin did in HS (not 1 D1 scholarship offer) or college (undrafted) and cherry picked info to support their bigoted confirmation bias.

    Jeremy Lin had better averages in his 26 starts than Goran Dragic's 28 starts this year. Lin averaged 18.5 points, 7.5 assists, 2.1 steals as a starter. He still produced after D'Antoni - the Knicks had blowouts in half of Lin's games with Woodson and Lin sat during blowouts which lowered his numbers. Jeremy Lin also has better season averages than Goran Dragic's season average this year. Goran Dragic averaged 11 points 5 rebounds this year, his best year ever. Lin put up 14 points 6 assists when you count his time as a bench player. Jeremy Lin is only 23 and put up a PER of 20 which is rare company - how is being younger, putting up better season and starter stats than Dragic, and still having tons of room to grow since he did it without any prior experience a justification for why he's worth LESS? Those all should suggest Jeremy Lin's potential is value should be higher, not lower. Additionally, you throw in the marketing value and it's definitely an insult that Jeremy Lin got a lower contract than Dragic did. Dragic got 4 years $34M guaranteed, Lin got 3 years $20M guaranteed with a team option for a 4th year. Even his teammates Landy Fields who is much less talented got the same 3 year $20M guarantee...

    Again, as has happened at every point in his life, it doesn't matter what Jeremy Lin does, he ends up getting offers or rewarded far less being Asian American than if he had the exact same production but was named Smith. In a way it's similar to how Asian Americans have to be significantly better than their peers for the same chance at admission in college or promotion in jobs...

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    1. Agreed.

      1) Dragic's "track record" works both ways. Greater sample size as a quality NBA player...which also makes his breakout performance more of an anomaly. Jeremy has had only one opportunity to receive regular playing time of any kind...and he set frickin' NBA records.

      2) In a vacuum, Lin got paid fairly. Compared to the other offers out there, however, he didn't get a fair shake (once Linsanity is accounted for).

      3) The fact that Lin remains widely regarded as a "poor" defender (even "awful") speaks volumes about the delusions of most observers. The stats most look at (+/-, steals, blocks, def-rebs) all say he's a very good defender. Not to mention the "wow" defensive highlights he's made on Wall, Rose, Jennings, etc.

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    2. Anonymous:

      "Jeremy Lin had better averages in his 26 starts than Goran Dragic's 28 starts this year."

      Did you read what I typed? Dragic wasn't paid $34 million based on his 28 starts. He was paid $34 million because of averaging 17 minutes a game for 4 seasons. The difference between 26 starts in 1 season and 217 appearances with legitimate productive minutes over 4? The team that gets the latter knows that at the very minimum, they have a capable, reliable reserve for both guard spots. The team that gets the former really has no idea what they are getting for the long term.

      "Even his teammates Landy Fields who is much less talented got the same 3 year $20M guarantee"

      Because Landry Fields started 143 games and averaged 9 ppg. The team that gets him knows that they have a solid reserve at 2 and 3, and a potential starter at 3. Again, 143 starts versus 26 starts.

      It is how the NBA works. The NBA pays you on potential only when you are a high draft pick out of college. And they even limited that with the rookie wage scale. Otherwise, you get your paychecks when you log years of service, game minutes played, and career starts under your belt. That is the NBA, and that is all professional team sports. After your initial contract as a draft pick - which is based entirely on projections of your potential - you get paid based on consistent production over a number of seasons.

      You want the NBA to do things differently in the case of Jeremy Lin because of the history of discrimination against him. The problem is that if they do so, it becomes a precedent, which means that every young undrafted player who plays well during any portion of a season will start demanding tens of millions of dollars. That guy will point to what Lin got as justification for his own contract demands, and the league's response won't - indeed it can't - be "sorry, that was a one time deal created by special circumstances that don't apply to anybody else."

      Incidentally ... "Lin produced AND won against elite NBA teams with untalented teammates" ... pardon me, but I missed that happening.

      "then with talented lazy teammates"

      Who were these lazy teammates, and where is the evidence that they are lazy? It is funny ... the commenters on this site frequently talk about the bias and racism that Lin experiences on one hand, but then are quick to use such stereotypical language as "thugs" and "lazy" on the other.

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    3. I do believe JLin will start over Kidd. We can speculate all day long but the key factor is 39 vs 23. Whatever happens JLin will get his minutes I'm not to worried about it either way he factors into the Knicks. We will see I will hold my thoughts until Knicks announce before the season starts and guage it over the summer.

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    4. Not all of us use such language, so don't consign us all to the trash bin. Jason Kidd STILL is one of my favorite players.

      That said, "lazy" is exactly the term I would use to describe Carmelo Anthony's mutiny against D'Antoni's coaching. Max superstars like him have no right to walk onto an NBA court and put forth anything less than their best effort. LAZY.

      If any DRAFTED player came in and did what Lin did, he would deserve tens of millions of dollars. A player that produces should be paid like a player that produces, regardless of where he was drafted and within the limits of the CBA.

      By the way, paying $8 million to a guy averaging only 17 minutes a game for the last four years raises my jaded eyebrows. Dragic had a very short run of success to go against several years of mediocrity. Lin, on the other hand, has had several years of DOMINANCE including in GS with his team leading PER and league leading steals and blocks per minute among guards. Lin got paid a fair contract, Dragic I have my doubts about.

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    5. If Kidd starts, it's not because he's better than Lin, it's because it's the only way he can be useful to the Knicks. If he starts, he's not playing starter's minutes and there's a good chance Lin will start with him.

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    6. K: Anthony wasn't lazy. He was passive-aggressive.

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    7. Lazy. Passive Aggresive. LOSER.

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    8. The fact is that Lin was undrafted. The fact is the Lin was cut twice in a time span of two weeks. The fact is that Lin broke a historical record when given a chance. The fact is the Lin has done something special to electrify the crowd and the market in such a short amount of time. Lin MAY have the potential to continue his amazing path. Time will tell us whether he is a flash in the pan or a real star.

      Now, let’s speak about number. When someone deals with number, it is hopeful that one could get huge number of sample so that statistics can be robust. This is almost a common sense although not a lot of people understand why. In statistics, small sample number may have the same meaning of huge sample number as long as working models existed. That is because all too common, one could not get huge statistical sample due to variety of reasons. Then, one has to rely on working models to estimate the outcome. After almost a few decades development, we have tons of working models. So, most of the time, not all the time, we have a good idea what we should expect.

      What if the observations are so weird and the existing models cannot work? Then, things are going to change. In other words, a new model or a modification of an existing model needs to happen. Does it happen? Oh yeah. For example, in science, when Kepler’s observations could not be explained well, Newton’s gravitation theory was born. The Mercury precessions eventually lead to Einstein’s new view of gravity and universe.

      Let’s talk about the NBA now. NBA is a business. They also rely on models to minimize their risk and maximize their profit. After years of operation, they have tons of working models to know what they should be expecting. What if they encounter a rare one? In this case, Lin may be a very weird outlier and a very noticeable one. He has a very small sample size but the sample statistics is very significant. When one has no model to do any estimate, one has to use one’s comment sense. In other words, they have to bet. However, things will leave their track. When the dust set, people will use the track to build new model or modify the existing models. We call it breakthrough or adjustment.

      Models mean operational procedure. So, in this case, Lin is making some adjustment for the NBA operation. In other word, the existing operation models may not work for Lin’s case. Otherwise, David Stern would not say “…. I have never seen this one before….”.

      Finally, I like one of the scout comment “…. I do not want to say anything about Lin because he proves me wrong every time….”. That means we may be witnessing something special in our life. I do hope Lin continue this amazing path and not a flash in a pan. Let’s root for him.

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    9. I analogized Lin's basketball value to a #1 overall draft pick because, by doing so, I could refer to a known NBA player value system.

      Lin isn't the 1st undrafted player to make the rounds before staking his claim in the NBA, but I believe the sample size was an issue. I'm sure NBA execs would have been more comfortable evaluating Lin had he played out the season.

      The variety within Lin's games also gave rise to a wide range of opinions.

      I've used Lin's 7 games under Woodson, standardized with /per36min, to set a floor for my expectations for Lin's usage next season. I've read a statistical picture of all Lin's games beginning with the 2nd Nets game used to argue that a regression to mean for Lin will likely reveal him to be an okay back-up.

      With predictions all over the map, I can understand why NBA execs were cautious this time around. Next time, Lin's stardom should be a lot easier to project.

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    10. Melo and Stat both said members of their team weren't giving it their all under Dantoni.

      Melo said it about himself.

      Stat said it about the locker room in general.

      Delete
  13. Hilarious to think that the NYK has such depth in the PG position...

    Depth as in age! Bibby, Davis, and Kidd. Can they even run up and down the court next season? Maybe they should add Fisher next year to the roster.

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    1. Lin is one of the best NBA PGs in transition right now.

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    2. Bibby and Baron Davis are free agents, while Davis messed up his knee so bad I'd be shocked if he even comes back next season. Right now it looks like it's going to be Lin, Kidd, and Toney Douglas.

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    3. Weakest backcourt in the NBA.

      Well, Lin HAS to be a star for the Knicks to reach 0.500.

      Go Toney Douglas! (urk...)

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    4. Yep. The Knicks need Lin. Signing Kidd doesn't make the Knicks need Lin any less. If anything, adding Kidd as the other PG threatens that Lin will be overused.

      Lin fans worried that Lin's Knicks teammates and coach intend to banish Lin to the D-league needn't worry. Even if they personally dislike Lin for some reason, the Knicks are a win-now team that needs Lin to win. He'll play.

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    5. Yeah? How MUCH?

      Woodson doesn't want to play Lin but was "forced to". Now Woodson has a nonproducing PG in Kidd to run his offense.

      Many promising NY Knick young PGs have historically been run out of town. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Lin was left to rot on the NY bench and then eventually traded for a 2nd round draft pick.

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  14. Lin's main value to the Knicks now is that he's going to be the main trade chip when Chris Paul becomes available.

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    1. In terms of basketball value by this time next year that could well be, but they'd have to package one of the Big 3 with Lin - probably Chandler - to make the salaries match in a sign and trade, barring a really creative multi-team trade.

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    2. Not Chandler. Stoudemire.

      Balky knees and all, Stoudemire would bring some cap relief once he's bought out or amnestied or something.

      The NBA is a fluid league where anybody can be traded. For all we know, Lin's center next year could be Dwight Howard. No way to predict.

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    3. The bright side if Lin ends up included in some complicated multi-team deal for Paul is that he'll have a full year of regular and likely post-season experience under his belt by then, and a team taking on his remaining 5/9/(9) contract should be looking to get their money's worth from him on the court.

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    4. Sterling loves money and Asians. So if he gets traded to the Clippers, then it'll be Linsanity from day 1 since Sterling will try to get as much $$$ he can from Lin.

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  15. If Kidd ends up starting, I see it as a blessing in disguise. Kidd is not capable of playing a lot of minutes anymore so eventually, Lin will get more minutes anyway so it's less pressure to perform for Lin after signing a big contract. Also he gets to play with the second team which does not have a ball-dominant Amare and Melo so he gets to do his thing.

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  16. After repeating myself about why Kidd would start several times, you can tell I'm not fond of the Kidd signing. And I say that as a long-time fan of Kidd, especially when he was dynamic leading a very exciting athetic, gutsy NJ Nets team to 2 NBA Finals.

    Nash would have started over Lin because of his stature and he has game left. Kidd would start at PG (and likely compel Lin to start at SG) because Kidd can't do anything else. It remains to be seen whether Kidd has enough game left to be useful with the starters. Best case is that Kidd is useful as a starter and plays enough minutes to keep Lin at 33-35 MPG. Worst case is that Kidd is more shot than he looked last season and forces another 'Secretariat' load onto Lin. Between the worst case and best case with Kidd, Lin likely will have to carry a larger load at SG and PG than he would have had to carry otherwise with Nash or another PG. The Knicks will probably have to add another PG as Kidd insurance, too.

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  17. To the long-time "Unknown" Lin hater here, take a look at this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AZqqYW9DQs

    Amare Stoudamire wasn't the only Knicks "star" who played ZERO defense allowing guards direct lanes for layups after pick and rolls on Lin. Somehow when both Amare and Melo were out, the Knicks beat the Mavs, Lakers, went 9-1 with Lin Chandler and scrubs, and it is fact that they had the best defense in the league during that stretch (only gave up 90 a game on 41% shooting despite playing good teams). It's the forward's fault if a big man picks the defender guard and the guard on offense goes straight to the hoop untouched. This happened repeatedly during the Knicks' 0-6 losing streak that led to D'Antoni resigning.

    So yes, the Knicks "stars" Melo and Amare are either lazy or deliberately tanked to get D'Antoni fired, both of which are DESPICABLE.

    Isn't it interesting that Lin was part of the league's best defense during their 9-1 stretch, the defense becomes terrible the moment Melo and Amare come back, then the moment D'Antoni resigns they start playing hard and Lin then goes 6-1 under Mike Woodson including several blowouts?


    Finally, there is a boatload of players making $10M who did far less either in total minutes or in their best games compared to what Lin did this year. Asik got the same guaranteed money Lin just got despite playing even fewer minutes than those excuses you came up for those other players. Playing mediocre off the bench for a few more years, like Dragic, or below-average as a starter like Fields, does not justify giving them the same or more money as a young player who played amazing and literally turned a team around.

    The Knicks won 1/3 of their games before Lin. Lin's winning percentage as a Knick is almost 67%, the kid is a winner who also produces stats-wise, and he proved that no matter the system (multiple systems) and no matter the coach (different coaches).

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    1. Melo was actually quoted as insulating that he tanked under dantoni. Amare pretty much confirmed that fact as well in a broader locker room sense.

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  18. Why haven't the knicks announced that they are going to match the offer. You would think they would just to make Lin happy - and show confidence in him. I don't get it. When Woodson was up for his contract, the knicks came out right away and said they wanted woodson back - we are not talking to phil jackson. But with Lin, they try to get Steve Nash and they don't make an offer right away. I hope he ends up with Rockets. The Knicks are such a poorly run organization.

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    1. I'm not sure, but there may be a tampering rule about commenting specifically on another team's contract to an RFA. Do you recall other teams commenting specifically about offer sheets to their RFAs?

      The Knicks generally, if not specifically, have consistently stated they would match any offer on Lin. As well, the media have reported that unnamed sources on the Knicks say they'll match.

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    2. I thought that NBA teams get 2 chances to bid on a RFA. That's what happened with Deandre Jordan of the Clippers, Warriors signed him to an offer, Clips matched, then Warriors made a higher offer, which the Clips matched again.

      Maybe Morley is willing to go higher than this $28.8 million... but seeing if the Knicks can match.

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    3. I did not think you could bid again can you? I tried to find something on the net but could not find anything saying teams get multiple chances to bid. If so why would they only allow 2? I know you can only accept one offer sheet (sign), its presented to the Knicks on 11th. They get 3 days to match or JLin will be a Rocket. If they match I did not think Rockets could bid again I think thats it.

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    4. Free agents can't officially sign until July 11th, so they can't technically really officially announce anything. Everyone pretty much knows that the Knicks will match since the deal he got works perfectly for them.

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  19. Apparently the communication isn't very great. If we are to believe Ian O'Connor, not only does Lin not have much "inside information," but he may actually know no more than we do:

    "Of course, the Knicks could've thrown four years and $24.5 million at their man out of the gate, but chose to let the market dictate their eventual terms of engagement. If that stance didn't anger Lin, it did make him wonder if the Knicks thought more of his off-court appeal than his on-court game.

    Lin was confused by the Knicks' radio silence, according to a source. From afar Lin watched the Knicks chase after Nash like schoolgirls chase after Justin Bieber, and he watched them land Kidd on the rebound. He was hearing some noise about Felton, who also looked like another Nash under D'Antoni before returning to form in Denver and Portland.

    Alone with his thoughts, Lin had to be asking himself a lot of questions. Were the Knicks recruiting Nash as the full-time, no-questions-asked starter? Do they think Kidd still has enough in his legs to pose a Tebow-like threat to the first-stringer? Do they believe somehow, some way, they're going to end up with Chris Paul this time next year?"

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8133974/new-york-knicks-bring-back-jeremy-lin-championship-hopes-rest-shoulders

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  20. Knicks should sign Scott Machado, just in case Jason Kidd doesn't hold up, they have another backup for PG. Toney Douglas can't seem to play that position.

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    1. 2011 Big East Player of the Year Ben Hansbrough (brother of Tyler) is bigger, stronger, faster, springier, and better than Scott Machado.

      Ben Hansbrough is the poor man's Jeremy Lin and has NBA ability. He was overlooked in the draft the way Lin was.

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    2. Ben Hansbrough struggled when playing for Euro teams. I think he's already signed with the Indiana Pacers summer league team. I'm sure he'll end up a Pacer like his brother.

      Scott Machado has natural PG written all over him, with his passing ability.

      Another name Knicks should consider is James Singleton, he's got 3-point range, tough defender, and high flying rebounder and dunker. Buried on the Washington Wiz bench, I'm sure he would kill to play for the Knicks.

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    3. Brandon Jennings and Ricky Rubio struggled mightily in the veteran oriented Euroleague and are doing just fine in the less hierarchical NBA.

      Scott Machado is the 2012 Jerome Randle. Both those players look good against NCAA competition but would look painfully overmatched trying to stop Jeremy Lin or Kyrie Irving. I can't see Machado exploding hard enough to get by super athletic NBA pgs or finishing inside against NBA interior defenses.

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  21. I'll be honest: I feel Jeremy Lin is going to get a fair financial deal from whatever team that ends up wth him.

    Thus I'm not worried about what happens on the court. Lin is a PLAYER, and he'll do what he does no matter how he's deployed.

    Great players like Lin create their destiny witb the franchises they play for. Lin's journey from unwanted reject to coveted free agent has sealed that in my mind.

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  22. Anybody who thinks Lin is being overhyped or overpaid because he is Asian .... look no further than Yi Jianlian of the Dallas Mavericks.

    If so why isn't Yi a starter or signed to big contracts? And he's 7-foot tall.

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    1. To guarantee his marketing value, Lin will just have to be a consistent star performer and winner on the court then.

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    2. He did very well creating offense last season, but he threw some dangerous passes and tries too hard to drive into traffic that resulted in turnovers.

      Lin's a high risk taker, but he needs to understand how to control that. Protect the ball with his dribble, and don't try to do too much with the ball like split double teams all the time.

      When it works, it's a highlight reel, but when it doesn't it's 2-3 points for the opposing team. I think that's one of the things that Jason Kidd can teach him is to play smarter basketball, use pump fakes and deception to create space, and make smart decisions with the ball.

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    3. True, but you take the good with the bad. Westbrook certainly does things to make you scratch your head, but all the other things he does are just too good.

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    4. That being said, Lin has things to work on of course.

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    5. With the incredibly low caliber of play at SG for the Knicks last year (sorry Landry Fields), Lin was essentially playing both backcourt positions at the same time whenever he stepped onto the court.

      That's why I was so excited about Lin joining Houston. Both Jeremy Lamb and Kevin Martin are solid SGs that can create for themselves and help Lin dribble upcourt. Lamb in particular has NBA ready dribbling instinctd for a SG.

      Alongside a solid backcourt partner, Jeremy Lin would look like a much more controlled and cerebral player.

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    6. This observation from a Knicks blog was interesting:

      (Paraphrasing) While Lin proved to be an elite iso player who took his man off the dribble at will, he eventually had trouble reading disguised defenses. For example, Lin had a hard time recognizing when a team would zone his side of the court. He would attack off the dribble as though the D was still man-to-man, and either drive into traffic or get the ball poked away. Passing lanes he expected to be open wouldn't be open.

      When Woodson took over, his greater use of set plays took pressure off Lin to keep up in the evolutionary race against the good defenses adjusting against him.

      So on Lin's list of things to do are improving his PG court awareness (different from court vision) and reading defenses.

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    7. Don't think for a second that Mike Woodson's system is going to stop defenses from piling up on Jeremy Lin.

      Teams will figure out that the Knicks don't have a real SG that can attack the gaps in defenses caused by doubleteaming Lin. Because Lin is such a deadly and creative player with or without the ball, teams will make sure that Lin gets double coverage all the time.

      Should Houston manage to get Jeremy Lin, rookie Jeremy Lamb has enough NBA game to make teams pay for the doubleteaming. That does not mean that Lin still won't be doubled or tripled.

      I also hear a lot of nonsense about how Jeremy Lin needs the ball in his hands to be effective. ALL NBA players need the ball to be effective.

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    8. True, the lack of need to defend Fields on the perimeter shrunk the maneuvering space for everyone else, including Lin.

      People say that Lin needs the ball to be effective because that's what Linsanity looked like in D'Antoni ball. I happen to believe that Lin can be very effective off the ball. As Lin has said and I saw, he played off the ball in college. He's shown some of his off-the-ball ability in the NBA, but not much. I expect we'll see more of it in Woodson's system.

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  23. Jason Kidd to be on ESPN NY Radio. They probably are going to ask him about Lin:

    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play

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    1. He reiterates that he believes he can help Lin.

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    2. Maybe I'm the weird one here, but ai thought Kidd was being complimentary to Lin by saying that he felt that Lin could be a starter in the league.

      The leaguewide perception among executives (not necessarily players who've been scorched by Lin) is that Lin is not a starting level NBA player. I felt as Kidd was countering that by claiming Lin could be a starter.

      I think Jeremy Lin will take control and shape his destiny in the NBA with whatever team he ends up with.

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    3. Kidd making his rounds of NY sports media. I caught him on WFAN. He praised Lin's strength and quickness, said Lin is a scorer, needs to learn better judgement of when to set up others and when to score, and thinks he can help teach that to Lin.

      Said it was up to Woodson whether he starts or comes off the bench, said he can play as many MPG as needed but also implied his MPG last season (28) is his upper limit, wants to close out the last 6 minutes of games. Said he decided against the Mavs after he and Deron Williams talked about the crappiness of the Mavs roster.

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    4. "Close out games"? Huh?

      At the time of his injury, Lin has the 2nd highest 4th quarter PER in the league. It was Chris Paul...then Jeremy Lin. Not Lebron. Not Durant. Not Kobe. Not Wade. Jeremy Lin.

      Kidd and Woodson would be delusional to have him close games. Until Shumpert comes back, I'm willing to entertain Jeremy playing some off-guard alongside Kidd. But that's it.

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    5. Unfortunately, I don't think Kidd can keep up with the hyper-athletes in the NBA like Russell Westbrook, Dwayne Wade, Rajon Rondo. Backup PG duty at the very most, Tony Douglas can slide into the backup SG slot if the Knicks don't get rid of him (They need to).

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    6. Kidd stopped defending PGs a while ago. Even with his Hall of Fame bag of tricks, open question whether or how long he can still keep up with SGs.

      Woodson is in a tough spot with Kidd. Kidd is a no-debate Hall of Famer, one of the best PGs of his era. He recently won a championship playing an important role. He's been a starter, centerpiece, or at least a co-star, for all of his career.

      But now his game is clearly on the decline. He's capable of less and less on the court. In Kidd's mind, though, while he's reluctantly willing to concede a reduced role and rationally aware that his career is nearing its end, he's still a difference-maker. A closer, a winner. He's coming to NY to compete for a championship, not just help Lin. The same ego that made Kidd great will not allow him to go quietly into the night.

      With all those top guards you named, I believe Kidd believes that no matter how much athleticism he loses, he'll figure out how to stop them when they need to be stopped ... even if it takes dragging them down by their hair. *

      * One of the most important things Kidd can pass onto Lin is his Hall of Fame bag of tricks.

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    7. When Lin is dominating him in practice (as KHuang said), Kidd will come to his senses. He'll realize very quickly that he's not a starter or heavy contributor on a team with Jeremy Lin.

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    8. I dunno about that..... Lin's been punking people since day one, and they keep trying to find reasons and people to keep him on the bench.

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    9. Kidd was answering questions, but in his answers, he made the case, subtly, that his relative strength at PG is he's a facilitator and floor general who can coordinate the Knicks offense, specifically Anthony and Stoudemire. He talked about his familiarity with both their games from Team USA.

      Kidd characterized Lin as a gifted scorer still learning how to facilitate as a PG, which I agree with, but the contrast with his own relative strength as a PG was hard to miss.

      So in practice, Lin can crossover, drive past, and score on Kidd all day. Kidd probably would readily concede that Lin is quicker, younger, and the superior scorer. But the challenge from Kidd is whether Lin will show himself to be the superior facilitator and floor general PG for the Big 3.

      Being an effective floor general PG in the NBA requires physical ability, too, but if Kidd can invent a way to conduct an offense without moving at all, I'm sure he'll try it. Although Kidd is physically capable of less and less on the court, he'll keep marshalling the things he can still do as a PG in order to stay on the floor, until he runs out.

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    10. But that's not what makes a great "closer." At the end of a game, players are tired. Jumpers don't fall. Passes are fumbled. Defenses are a step slower. Having a PG like Lin who can get the rim and finish or draw fouls/FTs is what matters.

      That's why Lin's 4th quarter PER is so high.

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    11. Yeah, I can see a better case for Kidd starting at PG with his facilitator for the Big 3 argument. But closing games is a Lin specialty.

      Assuming he still has enough game left to compete, Kidd's and Lin's games do complement. They can close games together.

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    12. Not even Jason Kidd can battle off an enraged Jeremy Lin in practice and perform consistently in games too.

      Lin puts up a front of being the nicest guy, but his body language and game are that of the cockiest and punkiest player I've ever seen enter the NBA. It doesn't matter if he gets along with Kidd, Lin is going to HAMMER him just like he hammered the ultra athletic Iman Shumpert in practice. And when Baron Davis was all set to start, Lin punked him so badly that Davis was physically unable to play for a while.

      Lin will go after guys, just like he went after Gary Payton in a summer training session. Payton wisely declined to play Lin 1on1, as he would have been Linbarrassed and everybody would've talked junk about Payton getting punked by an undrafted Asian guy.

      Kidd is in for a beating.

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    13. Perhaps, but if Kidd starts at PG, it will because of the relative strengths he has over Lin, not the areas where Lin is superior to Kidd. And vice versa.

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    14. @KHuang, I like the way you put them:

      "Kidd just signed up for 3 years of Linbarrassment"

      "Kidd is in for a beating."

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    15. Just because Kidd is there late in the 4th doesn't mean Lin won't be either. Kidd is still big enough to guard shooting guards and besides Kidd and Lin, there's not much competition besides possibly JR Smith for the guard spots currently.

      Mike Woodson said he will hold players accountable, and if he holds true to that statement, if Kidd is not holding down on his part on the defensive end then it's game over. It doesn't matter what Kidd says now.

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    16. Always assuming Kidd has enough left in the tank to do it, Kidd and Lin will be Woodson's 2 best guards and both have closer reputations. Their games complement each other, and more than complement, Kidd needs to play with a combo guard like Lin. That adds up to Kidd and Lin closing games together.

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    17. janelin17: The idea of Lin bullying Kidd in practice assumes Kidd even practices as much as Lin or tries to compete with Lin in practice. Kidd is being hired mainly for the post-season. The regular season is Kidd's pre-season. Woodson will try to save him for games with an eye on the play-offs. I imagine Kidd will practice as much as needed, but no more than necessary.

      Lin can and should put the Knicks younger guards in their place. Kidd's competition is with his biological clock.

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    18. Doesn't matter.

      Great players in the NBA PUNK the reserves. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, and Chris Paul all practiced their guts out and made sure everybody knew who was BOSS.

      Kidd can practice or not. Lin will still go after him. The NBA is a shark tank and MEAN NASTY SHARKS like Jeremy Lin punk the lesser or older sharks. And that's they way it's gonna be and that's they way it SHOULD be.

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  24. We should not forget that a big reason for "Linsanity", was the hustle play of underrated Knicks like: Jared Jeffries, Landry Fields, Shumpert, and even Bill Walker.
    Without them, the Knicks would not have been able to beat the Lakers, Mavs, Timberwolves, or even Raptors in Toronto.

    Shumpert will be lost for most of the season. So if the Knicks lose Landry Fields and Jared Jeffries, that takes away a lot of defense and offensive rebounding, the intangibles behind "Linsanity".

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    1. Yes, those underrated players, like JJ, LF, Shump, etc. were a large part of Linsanity.

      But in there lies a huge problem. Specifically at the SF and PF spots those guys play. Melo and Stat are max contract players, and need to produce like it.

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    2. Hustle only goes so far in the NBA.

      You need a transcendent talent like Lin to pull players together. Otherwise the Knicks wouldn't have had a .333 record until Lin was unleashed.

      Lin is so special because he's the rare NBA player that actually makes guys around him better.

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  25. I am not knocking Landry, but I feel that JLin should have gotten higher contract offer. Basically, the offer Landry got is the same as the term offered by Houston to JLin. Also, I would like to point out to people who are saying that JLin would not be getting all the attention if he was not an Asian-American NBA player. Yes, that's partly true, but JLin brings many "refreshing" qualities, such as being from Harvard, humble, etc. that many people of all creed like and admire. For example, the very fact that his parents put his academics first and he still made it to NBA in itself is amazing. Of course, these attributes may be viewed negatively, but there is no question that many non-Asian American fans of JLin respect and like him for these attributes. I myself would have liked him more if JLin were not so purposefully humble, but that's just my preference.

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    1. The Raptors ate Fields' contract to box out the Knicks from Nash. They pushed their chips in and lost. But yeah, Lin is worth more than Fields

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    2. I definitely see more potential in JLin than Landry, so I was very surprised to see Houston offering $20 Million USD for three years (I don't really count the 4th year option because it's meaningless) offer, which Knicks will match for sure. Makes me wonder why Houston made the offer knowing Knicks will match it anyway. If they were truly serious, they would have offered 4 years with 5, 5, 10 and 12 Million USD type of contract with no 4th year option.

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    4. Do you think the Rockets were going to offer Fields a 3/20 contract? The problem with justifying a max offer to Lin by citing bad contracts is that those contracts usually have back stories - like the Raptors' desperate gamble for Nash that was unrelated to Fields's basketball value - that don't apply to Lin's situation. Or involve bigs who are traditionally overpaid. Apples to oranges.

      The Rockets offer is oddly friendly to the Knicks. I mean, a team option? Collusion aside, I can only guess that the Rockets offer was based on their own budget rather than competitive bidding with the Knicks.

      Even at 5/5/10/12 guaranteed, the Knicks probably would have matched. A good argument made the rounds among Knicks fans explaining why it makes sense for the Knicks to match a max offer for Lin. The team's salary cap flexibility was likely limited to 2 years anyway, when Lin would be paid 5/5. Then in year 3, the Big 3 salaries would have pushed the team salary over the apron regardless of Lin's balloon. So the only added cost of a max contract for Lin was a bigger luxury tax in year 3 for Dolan, which is no big deal. The important thing was that a max contract made little difference as far as triggering the hard cap. Then in year 4, the Big 3 would be off the books and the win-now window would shut. With the salary cap emptied out, a then-veteran Lin would be a reasonable candidate to re-sign or a valuable expiring contract to use as a trading chip.

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    5. Simply put, not only does Jeremy have to deal with people using the "Asian" factor, he has to deal with all the B.S. that comes with it. Not only are non-Asians trying to knock him because he's getting attention partly because he's Asian-American, but even Asians are fighting over to claim him: Chinese vs Taiwanese. No other player, Asian or Asian-American, has ever had to deal with the type of pressure and attention Lin has gotten.

      But that's why he's a inspiration to many, it's just that in the U.S. there's a lot of ignorant and immature people who like to hate. A large part is due to jealousy. As the saying goes, HATERS GONNA HATE.

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    6. "But that's why he's a inspiration to many, it's just that in the U.S. there's a lot of ignorant and immature people who like to hate. A large part is due to jealousy. As the saying goes, HATERS GONNA HATE."

      If you pay attention, you'll see that it's mostly blacks doing the hating. Blacks are the most racist group in the country as a result of historical white guilt. White guilt has given blacks free license to be as racist as they wanna be with little to no repercussions, and blacks have fully availed themselves of this "privilege." You rarely hear this talked about publicly because the liberal media aids, abets, excuses, and covers up black racism. Just turn on BSPN for a few minutes to see the black propaganda machine in action.

      Sadly, Lin will have to deal with this his whole career.

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    7. I really didn't want to go the race route but I will since it was brought up this time.

      I see what you're saying and I agree it's the double-standards that have been pointed time and time again, yet when anything that is racist or ignorant towards Asians is done in the media, people say don't be so "SENSITIVE" or too "POLITICALLY CORRECT".

      But it's not just Blacks that hate on Lin, it's really everyone including Latinos. If you simply look at the Facebook comments when Lin first came onto the team, people were pulling out every Asian stereotypical joke known to man. Then when he had the bad game vs the Heat, and I know Knicks and Heat fans hate each other, but both Latinos and Blacks were going FULL OUT racist on Lin, with racist comments like GOOK, CHINK, and go back to CHINA.

      But you're right, there is a sense of entitlement. Combine that with Asians/Asian-Americans already dominating in the academics and job industry, there's absolute jealousy to see an Asian do it in a major sport in the U.S.

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    8. I do view Lin and me as belonging to the same tribe of 1st generation Taiwanese Americans with similarities in our family backgrounds. I also identify with him as a social, political, and cultural entity, not just as an NBA player.

      The global difference Lin will make will be with his success or failure on the court.

      Under the public microscope, shortcuts will be punished and disrespected. For Lin to break through for all of us, every step he takes in the NBA needs to be solidly founded.

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    9. Lin doesn't have to break through for anybody but Lin.

      There is no such thing as "shortcuts" in the NBA. Nor is there such thing as steps being "solidly founded".

      I am Taiwanese American, yet I don't identify myself with Lin. To me, he's just a great basketball player. I'd be his fan no matter the color, and likely with the same intensity.

      Fortunately, Lin isn't kowtowing to the same forces that sought to keep him down just because he's Asian. Instead, he's like "I'm the same as everyone else, give me my props". I salute that.

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  26. Eric, KHuang: found this in youtube - subject: How lazy Carmelo Anthony is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Vwf-eyt4o)

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  27. I think people are not being unreasonable when they put a lower value on JLin because he played in relatively few games and he had relatively high TOs, and that he cannot drive to his left, etc. These are bona fide concerns, I think. However, he has the leadership qualities, a great heart and hard worker and being able to finish his shots and high free throw percentage. The only thing I keep on harping on is that having observed how Knicks play, the best Knicks can do is perhaps make it past the first round of playoffs. I just don't see them able to compete with Lakers, Miami and OKC.

    We will have a better idea on how far JLin can go during next year, so it will be interesting to follow. I am hoping that JLin can at least achieve the level of Tony Parker caliber of PG in his career, which is no shame, because I consider Tony Parker to be one of the best PGs in NBA, such clean cuts to the basket, finishing ability and those hesitation moves!

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    1. "We will have a better idea on how far JLin can go during next year"

      That's it right there.

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    2. We will have at least 3 more seasons to see what Lin can do. Even if he struggles next season that doesn't mean he can't and won't improve in the following 2. He's still new to the PG position in terms of experience, all that will simply add to his development.

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  28. I don't trust Knicks management at all, even though they said all along they will match any offer. You never know what will happen, until the moment Lin signs the contract.

    If they are indeed sincere, they would have put Lin in their Plan A from the very beginning, and resigned him right away, instead of causing Lin having to withdraw from the Select Team to fight for his future.

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    1. Match or not, either way Lin gets paid.

      I also wonder why the Knicks didn't come out of the gate with an offer rather than only say they'd match any offer. But Lin could potentially have made more on the market than the Knicks maximum allowable offer.

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    2. There's a reason why Lin switched management to one of the top lawyers in DC. There would be absolutely no reason for the Knicks to offer him the deal since they couldn't offer more than the teams under the cap and potentially made much more with another team.

      The Knicks couldn't have offered him the deal that the Rockets just offered him. They could only match which mostly likely they will. This has been said several times already. Players can not sign deals until July 11th as it is, so withdrawing from Team USA was already coming.

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    3. Lin hired Jim Tanner on June 20, which implies he planned to shop the market. If that's case, it's likely the Knicks knew Lin's free agency plan, too.

      I agree that a Knicks offer (not the standard qualifying offer), even a max offer for 4/24, was most likely not a missed opportunity. It would have been a feel-good gesture to Lin. However, an early offer to Lin could have had real impact on the Nash negotiation. I'm not a capologist, but I believe sequence matters as far as fitting salaries into the salary cap. Any offer to Nash would have had to account for the open offer to Lin or any other free agent, which is why the Knicks didn't deal with any of their free agents, including Lin. Making an early offer to Lin, then quickly withdrawing the offer in order to negotiate with Nash would have been moronic public relations.

      As far as Team USA, Lin made a common sense move to focus on his free agency first, but there is no rule saying free agents cannot participate with Team USA. Eric Gordon, with his offer sheet from the Suns waiting, is with Team USA right now.

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    4. Difference is, Eric Gordon wasn't playing for the minimum and was the 7th overall pick in the NBA draft. He was also competing for an actual spot on the Team USA Senior Team. Jeremy Lin was to only play on the Select Team. It makes 100% sense for him to secure his money first, which can't be official until July 11th.

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    5. I agree. Like I said, it was a common sense move by Lin.

      There's a misconception, though, that Team USA has an actual rule that disallows players not under contract from participating. I didn't know if that's where you were going.

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  29. Why would Lin need Kidd as a mentor??? Lin doesn't need a mentor, he plays in the NBA, he learns as he goes along gaining experience year after year.. That's how you become a leader/ a star in this league... Did Drose ask for help any time during his career??? Something is fishy going on with this whole Matching Lin offer thing here in Houston, we just have to wait until the 11th to see what it's all about...

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    1. I don't think Lin needs a mentor to be an effective NBA player nor is he requesting a mentor.

      The difference is that the injured Rose is a score-first lead guard on a team designed around and featuring him.

      Hopefully, someday a team will be built around Lin, too. But for now, Lin's team is requiring that he play as more of a conventional facilitating floor general PG who runs an offense featuring others, not himself. That means Lin can't just play to his strengths, like Rose does. He has to go outside his comfort zone and play to Kidd's strengths. Maybe Kidd can pass them on to Lin. Some score-first PGs wouldn't be able to make the adjustment. I believe Lin has the innate PG abilities necessary to develop those areas of his PG game. Kidd's help couldn't hurt.

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    2. Well, I think that all young NBA players benefit from having mentors - and it doesn't have to be at the same position either.

      Lin already has a mentor in Yao Ming. Yet Jason Kidd could be a great help to Lin in helping Lin deal with specific individual challenges (i.e. how to keep Rajon Rondo from crashing the boards, how to limit Brandon Jennings' matchless lateral dribble speed, how to work Dick Bavetta, etc.)

      Kidd learned these things from Gary Payton in the grand Oakland basketball tradition. I seem to remember Kidd talking about Lin's Oakland roots.

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    3. I think there's an over- and underrated view of veteran mentorship.

      The overrated view is that a Hall-of-Fame-bound veteran teammate at the same position is a golden ticket for a young player. If that were true, stardom would spread like a virus.

      The underrated view is that a star-talented player will become a star without veteran mentorship. In reality, young talented players normally benefit from veteran teammates, even when the veterans aren't stars. Last season, I'm sure Baron Davis helped Lin. Next season, Kidd may be able to pass on some things Davis didn't know, like how a PG should take care of his body for a long consistent productive career.

      In Derrick Rose's rookie year, he played with 5-year veteran Kirk Hinrich and 15-year-veteran Lindsay Hunter.

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    4. Well, Lin has been getting a TON of veteran mentorship.

      That's why he plays like a veteran.

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  30. Jeremy's agent was probably busy with Ray Allen, another possible reason why his deal was so bad. Not sure if maxing out contracts is Tanner's strong suit...

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    1. Not necessarily. Whether we like it or not, Lin wasn't the #1 PG on most teams list that were under the cap. The teams that were rumored to be interested in Lin were first looking at Steve Nash and Goran Dragic. Brooklyn had already locked up Deron Williams as well. Lin just so happened to be a free agent when there were a lot of PGs on the free agent market.

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  31. just a few hours ago, on knicksnow.com, they had a link to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espys/voting?vote=8083318&lang=en) for voting "BEST BREAKTHROUGH ATHLETE" for JLin and other athletes. It's now removed.

    Is that one of the fishy things that screenname R_U_Sure_It's_Mine mentioned?

    I want to say again: I don't trust Knicks management. I hope they are not playing any ugly games.

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