I just want to see a good effort from my Knicks team. It doesn't matter if they win or lose, I want to see them play hard like they did against Boston and Chicago. They almost won those games too.
Woodson is looking for every excuse to bench Lin. He has make reducing turnovers his #1 priority. That means passing up any drive and pass that isn't a sure thing, even if that lack of aggressiveness actually hurts the team.
Better to lose short-term and win long-term by showing Dolan and Woodson what Melo-ball gets them: a boring, selfish, inconsistent team that relies on hot jump-shooting. That won't get you more than a low playoff seed and a first round exit, if that.
Oh, and I hope the crowd BOOS the heck out of every missed FG and TO by Melo and Baron.
I posted this in response to today's ESPN article, 'Woodson: Lin's my stater' http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/14496/woodson-lins-my-starter
I AM MAD... KNICKS ARE TOO SLY, TRYING TO HAVE CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.... after Woodson was shooting that uncouth mouth of his and publicly undermining and embarrassing his former boss, D'Anthoni, and Jeremy Lin in the same sentence (which Woodson managed to do numerous times in just 2 days) - all IN AN EFFORT TO EASE THE PUBLIC into accepting Lin AS A BACKUP POINT GUARD (Woodson DIDN'T CARE what Lin himself thought, with condescending comments like "... rookies are to sit and listen and learn") ..... NOW, apparently after meeting with the front office, damage control has begun (mostly to keep the same MSG advertisement rate) with Woodson sayng "Jeremy is my starter.... blah blah" and Carmelo lying, spinning, and two-faced as usual.
The thing is Jeremy Lin is ACTUALLY BETTER OFF PLAYING WITH THE BACKUP GROUP because:
1) Better chemistry with players that you get along with and can work with as a team. 2) NOT FAIR to force Lin to do the hard work ONLY to make the bad-blood just-stand-there no-work Carmelo look good. 3) Lin would not be able to help the good guys (and reverse), the better 2nd team - the group that won 8 games in a row.
The Knicks need to start with Baron Davis; that way the starters' failure would fall rightly on them - and not on LIN. The 6th loss in a row gave ammunition for Dolan, Carmelo, and Woodson to pounce on what has been planned behind the scenes for the past 2-3 weeks. The leaks have been coming out for a while. The firing and point-guard demoting (for now back tracking) didn't suddenly happen on March 14th; this explains why just prior to all this Carmelo felt free to not join crucial time-outs and disobey game plans the rest of the team were trying to follow (this probably caused a few close-call games recently - thanks to Lin, Knicks *almost* won against the Bulls).
Jeremy Lin SHOULD INSIST ON BEING THE BACKUP PG (I liked the idea, but hated THE WAY they originally implied it) with the backup players, JOIN ANOTHER TEAM after this season is over; SO GLAD that Jeremy Lin is a free agent, although restricted.
Versatile NBA "third" guard, who often also holds the sixth man title, is a highly respected role in the NBA. Lin's game is well-suited to be a NBA "third" guard.
Possibilities:
Lin succeeds as a Woodson PG and stays as starting PG with the bulk of 1st team PG duties. It could happen that Lin's strengths actually match Woodson's system.
Lin remains the nominal starter while Davis takes on the bulk of 1st team PG duties and minutes, most importantly to close games. What's the point of keeping Lin the starter if he's not also the 1st team PG? Marketing?
Davis becomes starting PG, while Lin moves over to SG. Starting 2 PGS (Rubio/Ridnour) or, in Lin'ss case, a PG with a combo guard (Paul/Billups) have become normal options in the NBA. However, Woodson may refuse to try a Lin/Davis backcourt because of the defensive mismatch.
Davis becomes starting PG while Lin becomes the back-up PG, perhaps playing together with Davis for stretches or with little overlap with Davis.
Lin to the back of the bench? I highly doubt Bibby and/or Douglas would beat out Lin as the back-up PG, unless Woodson is dogmatic about favoring veterans.
Yikes, this paints a pretty bleak situation for the rest of the season for Lin. It'll come down to whether the Knicks can win. If Woodson's style get them to play > .600 the rest of the season, then no one can doubt his old school philosophy. But if Woodson goes < .500, then the Knicks are no better off than D'Antoni.
"Mike Woodson is an old-school coach and Larry Brown disciple who emphasizes defense, ball control and isolation play. He does not push the tempo, or rely heavily on the pick-and-roll. He holds a tight leash on his point guards. He prefers veterans to rookies. He wants the offense to run through his stars. He will run most of his plays for Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire. None of this bodes well for Lin. Woodson, according to his former associate, will not tolerate many six-turnover games from his point guard."
Sorry, but I can't root for the Knicks to make the playoffs.
However, I wish that Lin does do well. Just not sure how Lin will handle Woodson's uncouth mouth and public humiliation of Lin and the former headcoach over and over again - as if he wants Lin AND the fans to *get it*.... Apparently, Dolan told Woodson to shut it in public, but it must be hard. I hope Lin blocks Woodson and Carmelo in the locker room and hang out with the good guys.
I hope the Knicks will win too. I am a bit pessimistic about watching the games from now on, as Melo will be given the right to hog the ball more & less play from the rookies. I am not liking Woodson so far. When Jeremy becomes a free agent, I hope he goes somewhere that treasures his skills.
It's really upsetting for me to read the back pages of the nydailynews and nypost today. I'm a Knick fan but now I kinda almost want them to lose if Lin starts to sit on the bench again. The way Linsanity unfolded was inspiring in so many ways and it def had an emotional impact on me. To hear about him prob getting back to the bench is pretty deflating and disheartening. This is indirectly blaming Jeremy for their recent struggles which is completely off base. I hope Baron Davis tweaks his back or ankle. But then again Woodson will prob start playing Douglas or Bibby over Lin. Dang it!
hahaha Rizzy - I totally agree with everything you wrote. I am also a Knicks fan, and I feel the same as you. If Jeremy or other rookies does not get more minutes, I don't even care for the game as much or care if they win. Isos is not exciting! Team work is!
actually rizzy - did you watch the part from last game when the basketball hit melo's groin? That was the highlight of the game to me, and I could not stop laughing. As evil as it sounds, I hope he gets hurt in his groin again....
San - I actually don't remember that groin play but it sounds awesome lol. I'm just SO sick of the media making Lin out to be the scapegoat. I saw this coming when Linsanity was at its peak. The media loves to hype a guy up and then tear him down once there is any kind of decline. They keep talking about his turnovers which I agree is a problem but no one seemed to care too much when they won 7 games in a row. So Lin's turnovers lost all these games for them? Really?? DEFENSE is what lost these games for them. DEFENSE!!!!!! I'm HOT right now!
hi Rizzy and san, I totally agree with you...even if the knicks win now it will no longer be fun or pure or inspiring. During the linsanity period, the knicks were actually so likeable as a team. You could tell that jeffries, chandler, shumpart, fields, lin and novak all got along so well, esp from their meet-the-fans conferences (see one of the youtube below). I got to like and appreciate some of the other players as well, and it's so sad that many of them will start to get sidelined again. The chemistry has broken.
Woodson was told today (March 16th) to circulate that Lin is a starter - after advertisers' outcry over the rates (and all the emails). But I guess that the Knicks will continue the losing streak (but possible short term win due to the shakeup) and Lin will be scapegoated again; that's when Woodson "will be justified" in formally marginalizing Lin. Woodson wanted to do marginalize Lin right off the bat; everyone noticed, hence the 'Lin a starter' spin (I do think it a *spin* for the sake of greed).
Ex Atlanta GM Billy Knight was the guy that hired Woodson, but then Knight tried to get Woodson fired 3 times!
I remember the conflict being over Woodson's refusal to develop young players like Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams, among other things. Atlanta had some horridly bad seasons under Woodson but eventually improved once Woodson started to play his younger guys.
Now I know why the respected Knight HATED Woodson.
Yeah, Howard Beck's piece in the NYT sure paints the grim reality of the change that is underway. Jeremy will have less playing time and may not even start under Woodson. But we can be sure that Jeremy will keep training hard and work to strengthen his weaknesses, build on experience and challenges. Let's hope he will eventually find a good fit with team and coach that values his talents. We have the privilege to watch his career unfold and to support him!
This new development is not positive for Lin, but he has already proven himself. You only get widely criticized if you are widely known. Lin has had a charmed career, and this will be a mere roadblock. That said, I would like to see Lin play more with the second unit, if the second unit sees much playing time. I also see Novak and Jefferies suffering under the new regime.
As far as I'm concerned, Lin has already earned his $800,000 (actually less than that).
Mike Woodson could shut down Lin for the rest of the season and Lin would've made his money.
From a basketball standpoint, other NBA teams already know about Jeremy Lin. If the Knicks don't want him, lots of other teams will. Even Mike Woodson deactivating Lin won't hurt Lin's future contract status.
Had Atlanta drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams, Mike Woodson would've ruined their careers too by refusing to play either of them.
When we first corresponded on this site, we all had hoped that Jeremy get proper playing time to show his skills. Thank God that he had his chance with the Knicks. I am sure that something will work out for Jeremy if it is not with the Knicks. Godspeed Jeremy.
Woodson is an idiot of a coach. At best, the Knicks will be a .550 to .600 team under him and will never seriously contend for a championship title.
His philosophy reeks of over-reliance on superstars. What he doesn't understand is that every player on a basketball team, down to the third stringers, is important. That is the Phil Jackson philosophy and as far as I am concerned, the greatest coach ever in the basketball.
By getting all of the team involved, it actually makes a team's superstars more effective. By focusing most on the superstars, the team becomes far too one dimensional.
Also, Woodson's comment that defense wins championships is so cliche. Phil Jackson won more championships than any other coach and he was never known for his emphasis on defense. But he was known for the triangle offense and for getting everyone involved.
I just can't believe that Lin has to put up with another idiot coach after Smart at Golden State. This is sort of like David killing Goliath, King Saul getting super jealous of David and putting him down, and David eventually becoming king taking Saul's crown.
Jeremy Lin will continue to get better and he will be recognized as one of the greatest to play the game. It's not often that you get dedication, athleticism, and a real intellectual connection with the game all rolled into one. Jeremy Lin is that type of player and he will ultimately prevail, God willing.
That's the trademark of a bad coach ... relying on superstars to win every game, not role players, not bench depth, but to ride on guys who can score 25 points a night with or with-out the coach's plays.
sorry for the capital letters. wanted my post to stand out:
DOES ANYBOYDY HAVE THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS' OWNER'S EMAIL ADDRESS (DOES HE OFFER AN EMAIL TO FANS?)?
I THINK THIS IS GOD TELLING HIM THAT I AM GIVING YOU A SECOND CHANCE TO GET LIN. D'ANOTONI IS FREE. BLOW UP THE MESS YOU HAVE OVER THERE AND GET THESE TWO GUYS IN THE BAY AREA.
IF YOU GUYS CAN FIND ME THE ADDRESS, I WILL CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP WITH AN EMAIL TO THE GUY.
Why don't you email Tim Kawakami, Golden State beat writer, he has the email address of Joe Lacob, see this article: http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_20172579/warriors-joe-lacob-trade-fact-is-we-just
I am sure he will be happy to pass it on to the owner.
I got a mixed bag of feelings here. I dont think phil and the triangle is good for Lin either. The triangle doesnt need a true penetrating pg but a tall sg that can shoot and b smart enough to pass, dump the ball n run the offense. Phil doesnt like to play n develop rookies either, cuz the triangle is hard enough for veterans to grasp. Steve blake couldnt get it cuz in didnt have the ball in his hands that often like in a convential offense. The only thing going for lin is his intelligence. Phil likes smart guys. Thats why luke walton got to stick around for so long. Luke never developed as a player skill-wise under the triangle. The center is mostly the one that will develop skillwise under the triangle. However the guys will become smarter more disciplined team players n win championships. In summary the triangle demands smart veteran players. at phils age now I dont think he wants to deal with eggheads like melo n stat. Phil was so frustrated dealing kobe he took some time off n wrote abook talking trash about him. Ok enough of Phil. The best person for the job is jerry sloan. Perfect for lin and sloan will whip the eggheads into shape. But I dont think that will happen either. Dolan is solely to blame. Under him coaches leave n players stay.
I agree with you that Dolan is the culprit. He is in it for the money. That's why he didn't back D'Antoni. He stuck with Melo bcs of the money. The Knicks aren't going to get far with Dolan behind the franchise. Just dysfunctional management hurting players and fans, and letting Divas have their way. Let's pray Jeremy will hook up with a compatible team and coach.
It's interesting that dumb coaches (Keith Smart and Woodson) don't think Jeremy can play, whereas smart coaches (Dantoni and Phil Jackson) think he can. Jeremy will play 20 minutes, maybe coming off bench tonight. Just bide your time Jeremy, and follow the smart coaches. I hope Musselman can get an NBA team next year.
Quote from Jackson:
Jackson told ESPN. Jackson, for example, likes Jeremy Lin’s game and has had his eye on the point guard since his rookie season in Golden State last year.
Eric, Woodson's chances for head coach depends on a few factors, one of which is of course, how well he can carry this team towards the playoffs. Right now he's fighting for a contract, which explains, among other things, why he is choosing to play Melo and Amare over rookies with tremendous values to the team. If you want Woodson to get fired, it's probably not likely. Woodson is here to stay for a bit. He will continue to play Melo and hope to win the championship. But that won't be the case. Melo has played with Nuggets for 8 years, and they haven't won a championship with him. 8 years! Think of it! Certainly, it would take a miracle for Knicks to win a ring with Melo. And Jeremy gets to be a free agent, so I hope he goes to a team and a town who has respect for his him and is able to nourish and develop his incredible talent.
Great thoughts Razerrr. What are people's thoughts on this scenario:
-Knicks make the playoffs and win at least a series. -Some other team hires Woodson after the season. -Phil Jackson decides to coach the Knicks and uses Lin to his full potential (apparently Jackson has been watching Lin since his rookie season with the Warriors).
I hate how writers deny past discrimination of Lin and use his past snubs as objective evidence that Lin was a marginal player who only played well in a perfect system for him. They call him a DLeague talent, say he's slow, and infer that he didn't have skills because he wasn't drafted or offered any D1 scholarships. Lin's PER this year is 20, 34th in the ENTIRE league. He leads all Knicks. Last year he rotted on the Warriors bench but his PER was 15, the NBA average for a starter not a bench player. Lin had a triple double in DLeague, he was way better than DLeague but will always carry the DLeague stigma. It's total bullshit, I can't wait until Lin thrives again after he leaves the Knicks while all the dumb "experts" claim Lin took a 2nd quantum leap in improvement even though he was always that good
yeah. again the statistics are all there but all these haters/writers still ignore it and still call him average and a weak defender. the hate and racism is so obvious from these writers.
I'm a Lin fan and actually I think Lin will be better off the bench. Yes the first unit only gonna play iso so Melo and Amare will get to shoot all the time. But with Lin leading the secong unit with Novak, Jeffries, JR, Shumpert, they could be a dangerous bench
Great point. Of course, Lin is definitely starter caliber. But for now, as he gains Woodson's trust, being that dangerous 6th man would be huge. As long as he's helps the Knicks win and get into the playoffs. I'd bet, he would be in during crunch time when the team needs to make plays.
As for after the season, he'll reap what he has sown.
I agree, and I also have been saying this. If I was JLin, I rather be playing with second unit than the first unit, so I can show off what I can do and my strengths. JLin's strengths lie in playing in the open spacing and anyone can shoot system -- that was the key to the Linsanity happening.
A good article. I mostly agree with the article. I would actually prefer B. Davis to start with the Knicks starting unit which includes Anthony and Stoudemire, so that JLin can play with 2nd unit more and show that he can do well in this type of system.
Lin needs to play perfect basketball. He cannot afford to take any bad shots, commit any turnovers, or be slow on defense. Don't give Woodson a chance to doubt his abilities and put him on the bench.
I smell a setup. It's clear woodson wants his guy davis starting. But, what if davis starts and the team still loses. The blame goes to woodson and the starters.
Start lin first blame problems on lin's turnovers and shooting. Afterall, no 6 turnover pg is going to play for woodson. Ease davis into starters role. Knicks don't make the playoffs. Obviously, davis just didn't have enough time to gell with the starters
I don't think they'll conspire to that level. But if they do keep losing yes Lin will undoubtedly get some of the blame since he's going to start. But the person that will get most of the blame will be on Melo because of the whole situation. Knicks are setting up Melo to be the goat. Anything short of a championship within the time period of his contract Melo will be ran out of town as a pariah. Knicks ownership have essentially washed their hands of blame now that Melo chased out the coach. Like the old saying, be careful what you wish for.
It's not conspiracy to get lin. It's more office politics and CYA. By conventional logic davis is the better guard. He is a legitimate allstar and we have seen that he can do a good job of running the knick offense.
woodson should man up, be up front about it. Start who he thinks should be the best for the starters. You know he wants to start davis. Then just do it. w will just put lin under a very short leasch waiting for lin to fail. It's not good for lin. Not good for the team.
I agree with the others that he would develop more as a primary option on the second unit.
A little off topic but I was thinking about D'Antoni's resignation earlier and it dawned on me what may have really transpired.
I think what happened was D'Antoni was looking at the schedule and realized it would be tough for his team to make the playoffs and with the trade deadline looming they need to make a change now or never. He had put a lot of faith in Lin but he hasn't orchestrated the team to wins for him the last 10 games. On top of that, Melo was undermining him by not being fully committed to his style of play. So the morning of his resignation he goes to Grunwald and later Dolan and proposes a trade (as reported by David Aldridge) to attempt a swap of Melo for Deron. This takes care of 2 things. It gives him the PG he covets to run his system and gets rid of Melo the player who was not completely buying in. Dolan turns it down, an argument ensues and they both agree it's best they part ways.
I know the above is conjecture but it's based on bits and pieces of information that I've pieced together from various interviews and reports.
I said before, Dantoni leaving might actually be a blessing for Lin. If D-Will had came to the Knicks. Lin would be put on the bench and gotten less time because he would have to share time with BD. Even though Dantoni might have liked Lin he wanted to win.
No, the theory was that D'Antoni wanted to run a 3 guard starting lineup with D-Williams, Lin, Fields, Amare, and Chandler. Just like the highly successful 2006 Phoenix Suns with Nash, Barbosa, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, and Boris Diaw/Tim Thomas. Such a lineup would be undersized, so they would be an up-tempo run n' gun team the way D'Antoni likes it.
It would not have put Lin on the bench, he would be the starting shooting guard, since he's the Knicks 2nd best perimeter threat behind Novak.
JLin plays best when he is aggressive. When Melo and Stat came back he had to defer to them. Instead of taking the shot instinctively, he hesitated. Chandler was hurt, so the PnR wasn't as effective.
JLin will perform better with the type of players in the second unit, who will play defense and rebound. Additionally, he won't be held responsible when the starter fails because of their poor defense and rebounding.
JLin needs to stay aggressive ad fearless even if it results in some extra turnovers.
This is a very good and fair article written about the state of the Knicks and JLIn. Read it and see if you agree http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/knicks-coach-might-mean-less-jeremy-lin-more-143041005.html;_ylt=AtU3H7Ma_35QJYbxUgqGIUO8vLYF
This morning, I was in a conspiracy state of mind and thought about the catchable passes from Lin that were dropped, the caught passes for makeable shots that were missed, the lack of help on Lin's man, and the lack of rotation when Lin left his man to help, since the superstars came back.
Anyway, if there was a conspiracy to make Lin, and by extension D'Antoni, look bad, it worked.
There can be a silver lining with Woodson's system, though. While Lin won't be a D'Antoni PG anymore, he really hasn't been a D'Antoni PG since the superstars returned to the floor anyway.
Lin may now be able to show different strengths in Woodson's system. In my assessment, Lin is a SG/PG combo guard. A major reason for the high number of turnovers is that Lin doesn't have (yet) a NBA PG handle. It didn't hurt him against bad teams, but since the league has adjusted, good teams have been able to disrupt his ball handling, and thus his ability to control tempo and run the offense. Lin has a NBA combo guard handle, however, that's good enough to attack off the ball.
The offense will run through Anthony and Stoudamire, but the PG still has to make the entry pass. Lin can make a solid entry pass. The difference now is that after the ball has been given to Anthony or Stoudamire, Lin is no longer a PG. He becomes a secondary scorer working off of the superstars. If/when they pass the ball back to him, he can be cutting, he can shoot or drive. Lin can do damage when the good defenses are distracted by the superstars rather than focused on him, Lin is moved away from the traps, and moved into space and single coverage, even mismatches, where he can focus on creating off his scoring rather than distributing and controlling tempo.
In short, Woodson's system potentially can place Lin in his more natural role as a scorer with fewer touches but better production with those touches.
these are very good points. lin has to make do in his current situation, but yet play his own game. that is play to his strenghs.
he's being asked to bring the ball up and get the ball to tony in the right position. fine. this should lower his tos. lin just hangs around for the kickout if there is any. if he gets the ball back do not take the long j. do not pass the ball unless it's to a wide open novak. he has to be agressive and drive take it to the hoop. punk that defense. pass out only when the defense knows it's going to get punked. settle for at most 1-2 long js a game. stay agressive when given the opportunity.
on defense stay on your man. punk the other pg. get inside his jersey. get inside his head. take it to them. he's not going to want a piece of you. lin's teammates need to d-up on their on their own man. if you get into foul problems, so what. davis can take care of it.
This is good analysis. I think Lin would prefer to be the PG/Quarterback, but I could see production going up, assists going down, and T/O going down. The trick is, will Melo or Stat pass? I think so.
If Lin is willing to make the 2nd 'swing swing' pass - and he is - his assists rate may not go down by that much. More, if defense aren't focused on him as much as before, that can also mean easier passing lanes and fewer passes knocked away or picked off.
I have no doubt Anthony and Stoudamire will think shot first and play hero ball. But when the double or even triple teams come their way, I believe Anthony and Stoudamire will be more willing to pass now that they're confident the team pecking order has been restored, the offense is running through them, and they'll get all the touches they want. If Lin makes himself the best available relief valve, I think they'll use him.
Lin himself should leave Knicks as soon as possible because there is no more hope for him to grow, develop, and function well when his teammates are jealous of him. Let those old guards return to their old performance for the Knicks. Lin should not wait for the Knicks to determine his own fate. It is time for him to move away with D'Antoni, his benefactor and major supporter, so the entire Asian world market will also move out of Madison Square Garden. The Knicks is no longer a suitable or friendly home for Lin! He should give up on the Knicks now because Asians in the whole world are giving up on the Knicks any way!
I just want to see a good effort from my Knicks team. It doesn't matter if they win or lose, I want to see them play hard like they did against Boston and Chicago. They almost won those games too.
ReplyDeleteWoodson is looking for every excuse to bench Lin. He has make reducing turnovers his #1 priority. That means passing up any drive and pass that isn't a sure thing, even if that lack of aggressiveness actually hurts the team.
ReplyDeleteBetter to lose short-term and win long-term by showing Dolan and Woodson what Melo-ball gets them: a boring, selfish, inconsistent team that relies on hot jump-shooting. That won't get you more than a low playoff seed and a first round exit, if that.
Oh, and I hope the crowd BOOS the heck out of every missed FG and TO by Melo and Baron.
I posted this in response to today's ESPN article, 'Woodson: Lin's my stater'
Deletehttp://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/14496/woodson-lins-my-starter
I AM MAD... KNICKS ARE TOO SLY, TRYING TO HAVE CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.... after Woodson was shooting that uncouth mouth of his and publicly undermining and embarrassing his former boss, D'Anthoni, and Jeremy Lin in the same sentence (which Woodson managed to do numerous times in just 2 days) - all IN AN EFFORT TO EASE THE PUBLIC into accepting Lin AS A BACKUP POINT GUARD (Woodson DIDN'T CARE what Lin himself thought, with condescending comments like "... rookies are to sit and listen and learn") ..... NOW, apparently after meeting with the front office, damage control has begun (mostly to keep the same MSG advertisement rate) with Woodson sayng "Jeremy is my starter.... blah blah" and Carmelo lying, spinning, and two-faced as usual.
The thing is Jeremy Lin is ACTUALLY BETTER OFF PLAYING WITH THE BACKUP GROUP because:
1) Better chemistry with players that you get along with and can work with as a team.
2) NOT FAIR to force Lin to do the hard work ONLY to make the bad-blood just-stand-there no-work Carmelo look good.
3) Lin would not be able to help the good guys (and reverse), the better 2nd team - the group that won 8 games in a row.
The Knicks need to start with Baron Davis; that way the starters' failure would fall rightly on them - and not on LIN. The 6th loss in a row gave ammunition for Dolan, Carmelo, and Woodson to pounce on what has been planned behind the scenes for the past 2-3 weeks. The leaks have been coming out for a while. The firing and point-guard demoting (for now back tracking) didn't suddenly happen on March 14th; this explains why just prior to all this Carmelo felt free to not join crucial time-outs and disobey game plans the rest of the team were trying to follow (this probably caused a few close-call games recently - thanks to Lin, Knicks *almost* won against the Bulls).
Jeremy Lin SHOULD INSIST ON BEING THE BACKUP PG (I liked the idea, but hated THE WAY they originally implied it) with the backup players, JOIN ANOTHER TEAM after this season is over; SO GLAD that Jeremy Lin is a free agent, although restricted.
Versatile NBA "third" guard, who often also holds the sixth man title, is a highly respected role in the NBA. Lin's game is well-suited to be a NBA "third" guard.
DeletePossibilities:
Lin succeeds as a Woodson PG and stays as starting PG with the bulk of 1st team PG duties. It could happen that Lin's strengths actually match Woodson's system.
Lin remains the nominal starter while Davis takes on the bulk of 1st team PG duties and minutes, most importantly to close games. What's the point of keeping Lin the starter if he's not also the 1st team PG? Marketing?
Davis becomes starting PG, while Lin moves over to SG. Starting 2 PGS (Rubio/Ridnour) or, in Lin'ss case, a PG with a combo guard (Paul/Billups) have become normal options in the NBA. However, Woodson may refuse to try a Lin/Davis backcourt because of the defensive mismatch.
Davis becomes starting PG while Lin becomes the back-up PG, perhaps playing together with Davis for stretches or with little overlap with Davis.
Lin to the back of the bench? I highly doubt Bibby and/or Douglas would beat out Lin as the back-up PG, unless Woodson is dogmatic about favoring veterans.
Yikes, this paints a pretty bleak situation for the rest of the season for Lin. It'll come down to whether the Knicks can win. If Woodson's style get them to play > .600 the rest of the season, then no one can doubt his old school philosophy. But if Woodson goes < .500, then the Knicks are no better off than D'Antoni.
ReplyDelete"Mike Woodson is an old-school coach and Larry Brown disciple who emphasizes defense, ball control and isolation play. He does not push the tempo, or rely heavily on the pick-and-roll. He holds a tight leash on his point guards. He prefers veterans to rookies. He wants the offense to run through his stars. He will run most of his plays for Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire. None of this bodes well for Lin. Woodson, according to his former associate, will not tolerate many six-turnover games from his point guard."
www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/sports/basketball/for-the-knicks-linsanity-has-left-the-building.html
I hope they make the playoff. It give Jeremy more opportunity to shine. Godspeed Jeremy!
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I can't root for the Knicks to make the playoffs.
DeleteHowever, I wish that Lin does do well. Just not sure how Lin will handle Woodson's uncouth mouth and public humiliation of Lin and the former headcoach over and over again - as if he wants Lin AND the fans to *get it*.... Apparently, Dolan told Woodson to shut it in public, but it must be hard. I hope Lin blocks Woodson and Carmelo in the locker room and hang out with the good guys.
iso play is so boring.
ReplyDeleteI hope the Knicks will win too. I am a bit pessimistic about watching the games from now on, as Melo will be given the right to hog the ball more & less play from the rookies. I am not liking Woodson so far. When Jeremy becomes a free agent, I hope he goes somewhere that treasures his skills.
ReplyDeleteIt's really upsetting for me to read the back pages of the nydailynews and nypost today. I'm a Knick fan but now I kinda almost want them to lose if Lin starts to sit on the bench again. The way Linsanity unfolded was inspiring in so many ways and it def had an emotional impact on me. To hear about him prob getting back to the bench is pretty deflating and disheartening. This is indirectly blaming Jeremy for their recent struggles which is completely off base. I hope Baron Davis tweaks his back or ankle. But then again Woodson will prob start playing Douglas or Bibby over Lin. Dang it!
Deletehahaha Rizzy - I totally agree with everything you wrote. I am also a Knicks fan, and I feel the same as you. If Jeremy or other rookies does not get more minutes, I don't even care for the game as much or care if they win. Isos is not exciting! Team work is!
Deleteactually rizzy - did you watch the part from last game when the basketball hit melo's groin? That was the highlight of the game to me, and I could not stop laughing. As evil as it sounds, I hope he gets hurt in his groin again....
DeleteSan - I actually don't remember that groin play but it sounds awesome lol. I'm just SO sick of the media making Lin out to be the scapegoat. I saw this coming when Linsanity was at its peak. The media loves to hype a guy up and then tear him down once there is any kind of decline. They keep talking about his turnovers which I agree is a problem but no one seemed to care too much when they won 7 games in a row. So Lin's turnovers lost all these games for them? Really?? DEFENSE is what lost these games for them. DEFENSE!!!!!! I'm HOT right now!
Deletehi Rizzy and san, I totally agree with you...even if the knicks win now it will no longer be fun or pure or inspiring. During the linsanity period, the knicks were actually so likeable as a team. You could tell that jeffries, chandler, shumpart, fields, lin and novak all got along so well, esp from their meet-the-fans conferences (see one of the youtube below). I got to like and appreciate some of the other players as well, and it's so sad that many of them will start to get sidelined again. The chemistry has broken.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWlwgrUE38
Woodson was told today (March 16th) to circulate that Lin is a starter - after advertisers' outcry over the rates (and all the emails). But I guess that the Knicks will continue the losing streak (but possible short term win due to the shakeup) and Lin will be scapegoated again; that's when Woodson "will be justified" in formally marginalizing Lin. Woodson wanted to do marginalize Lin right off the bat; everyone noticed, hence the 'Lin a starter' spin (I do think it a *spin* for the sake of greed).
DeleteEx Atlanta GM Billy Knight was the guy that hired Woodson, but then Knight tried to get Woodson fired 3 times!
ReplyDeleteI remember the conflict being over Woodson's refusal to develop young players like Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams, among other things. Atlanta had some horridly bad seasons under Woodson but eventually improved once Woodson started to play his younger guys.
Now I know why the respected Knight HATED Woodson.
Yeah, Howard Beck's piece in the NYT sure paints the grim reality of the change that is underway. Jeremy will have less playing time and may not even start under Woodson. But we can be sure that Jeremy will keep training hard and work to strengthen his weaknesses, build on experience and challenges. Let's hope he will eventually find a good fit with team and coach that values his talents. We have the privilege to watch his career unfold and to support him!
ReplyDeleteThis new development is not positive for Lin, but he has already proven himself. You only get widely criticized if you are widely known. Lin has had a charmed career, and this will be a mere roadblock. That said, I would like to see Lin play more with the second unit, if the second unit sees much playing time. I also see Novak and Jefferies suffering under the new regime.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I'm concerned, Lin has already earned his $800,000 (actually less than that).
ReplyDeleteMike Woodson could shut down Lin for the rest of the season and Lin would've made his money.
From a basketball standpoint, other NBA teams already know about Jeremy Lin. If the Knicks don't want him, lots of other teams will. Even Mike Woodson deactivating Lin won't hurt Lin's future contract status.
Had Atlanta drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams, Mike Woodson would've ruined their careers too by refusing to play either of them.
When we first corresponded on this site, we all had hoped that Jeremy get proper playing time to show his skills. Thank God that he had his chance with the Knicks. I am sure that something will work out for Jeremy if it is not with the Knicks. Godspeed Jeremy.
ReplyDeleteWoodson is an idiot of a coach. At best, the Knicks will be a .550 to .600 team under him and will never seriously contend for a championship title.
ReplyDeleteHis philosophy reeks of over-reliance on superstars. What he doesn't understand is that every player on a basketball team, down to the third stringers, is important. That is the Phil Jackson philosophy and as far as I am concerned, the greatest coach ever in the basketball.
By getting all of the team involved, it actually makes a team's superstars more effective. By focusing most on the superstars, the team becomes far too one dimensional.
Also, Woodson's comment that defense wins championships is so cliche. Phil Jackson won more championships than any other coach and he was never known for his emphasis on defense. But he was known for the triangle offense and for getting everyone involved.
I just can't believe that Lin has to put up with another idiot coach after Smart at Golden State. This is sort of like David killing Goliath, King Saul getting super jealous of David and putting him down, and David eventually becoming king taking Saul's crown.
Jeremy Lin will continue to get better and he will be recognized as one of the greatest to play the game. It's not often that you get dedication, athleticism, and a real intellectual connection with the game all rolled into one. Jeremy Lin is that type of player and he will ultimately prevail, God willing.
That's the trademark of a bad coach ... relying on superstars to win every game, not role players, not bench depth, but to ride on guys who can score 25 points a night with or with-out the coach's plays.
Deletesorry for the capital letters. wanted my post to stand out:
ReplyDeleteDOES ANYBOYDY HAVE THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS' OWNER'S EMAIL ADDRESS (DOES HE OFFER AN EMAIL TO FANS?)?
I THINK THIS IS GOD TELLING HIM THAT I AM GIVING YOU A SECOND CHANCE TO GET LIN. D'ANOTONI IS FREE. BLOW UP THE MESS YOU HAVE OVER THERE AND GET THESE TWO GUYS IN THE BAY AREA.
IF YOU GUYS CAN FIND ME THE ADDRESS, I WILL CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP WITH AN EMAIL TO THE GUY.
Why don't you email Tim Kawakami, Golden State beat writer, he has the email address of Joe Lacob, see this article: http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_20172579/warriors-joe-lacob-trade-fact-is-we-just
DeleteI am sure he will be happy to pass it on to the owner.
Kawakami email is : tkawakami@mercurynews.com
DeleteI got a mixed bag of feelings here. I dont think phil and the triangle is good for Lin either. The triangle doesnt need a true penetrating pg but a tall sg that can shoot and b smart enough to pass, dump the ball n run the offense. Phil doesnt like to play n develop rookies either, cuz the triangle is hard enough for veterans to grasp. Steve blake couldnt get it cuz in didnt have the ball in his hands that often like in a convential offense. The only thing going for lin is his intelligence. Phil likes smart guys. Thats why luke walton got to stick around for so long. Luke never developed as a player skill-wise under the triangle. The center is mostly the one that will develop skillwise under the triangle. However the guys will become smarter more disciplined team players n win championships. In summary the triangle demands smart veteran players. at phils age now I dont think he wants to deal with eggheads like melo n stat. Phil was so frustrated dealing kobe he took some time off n wrote abook talking trash about him. Ok enough of Phil. The best person for the job is jerry sloan. Perfect for lin and sloan will whip the eggheads into shape. But I dont think that will happen either. Dolan is solely to blame. Under him coaches leave n players stay.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Dolan is the culprit. He is in it for the money. That's why he didn't back D'Antoni. He stuck with Melo bcs of the money. The Knicks aren't going to get far with Dolan behind the franchise. Just dysfunctional management hurting players and fans, and letting Divas have their way. Let's pray Jeremy will hook up with a compatible team and coach.
DeleteIt's interesting that dumb coaches (Keith Smart and Woodson) don't think Jeremy can play, whereas smart coaches (Dantoni and Phil Jackson) think he can. Jeremy will play 20 minutes, maybe coming off bench tonight. Just bide your time Jeremy, and follow the smart coaches. I hope Musselman can get an NBA team next year.
ReplyDeleteQuote from Jackson:
Jackson told ESPN. Jackson, for example, likes Jeremy Lin’s game and has had his eye on the point guard since his rookie season in Golden State last year.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-03-15/phil-jackson-new-york-knicks-coach-job-mesh-with-owner-james-dolan
he's just an interim coach right..? what are Woodson's chances to be head coach here at the start of the next season?
ReplyDeleteEric,
DeleteWoodson's chances for head coach depends on a few factors, one of which is of course, how well he can carry this team towards the playoffs. Right now he's fighting for a contract, which explains, among other things, why he is choosing to play Melo and Amare over rookies with tremendous values to the team. If you want Woodson to get fired, it's probably not likely. Woodson is here to stay for a bit. He will continue to play Melo and hope to win the championship. But that won't be the case. Melo has played with Nuggets for 8 years, and they haven't won a championship with him. 8 years! Think of it! Certainly, it would take a miracle for Knicks to win a ring with Melo. And Jeremy gets to be a free agent, so I hope he goes to a team and a town who has respect for his him and is able to nourish and develop his incredible talent.
Great thoughts Razerrr. What are people's thoughts on this scenario:
Delete-Knicks make the playoffs and win at least a series.
-Some other team hires Woodson after the season.
-Phil Jackson decides to coach the Knicks and uses Lin to his full potential (apparently Jackson has been watching Lin since his rookie season with the Warriors).
I hate how writers deny past discrimination of Lin and use his past snubs as objective evidence that Lin was a marginal player who only played well in a perfect system for him. They call him a DLeague talent, say he's slow, and infer that he didn't have skills because he wasn't drafted or offered any D1 scholarships.
ReplyDeleteLin's PER this year is 20, 34th in the ENTIRE league. He leads all Knicks. Last year he rotted on the Warriors bench but his PER was 15, the NBA average for a starter not a bench player. Lin had a triple double in DLeague, he was way better than DLeague but will always carry the DLeague stigma.
It's total bullshit, I can't wait until Lin thrives again after he leaves the Knicks while all the dumb "experts" claim Lin took a 2nd quantum leap in improvement even though he was always that good
yeah. again the statistics are all there but all these haters/writers still ignore it and still call him average and a weak defender. the hate and racism is so obvious from these writers.
DeleteI'm a Lin fan and actually I think Lin will be better off the bench. Yes the first unit only gonna play iso so Melo and Amare will get to shoot all the time. But with Lin leading the secong unit with Novak, Jeffries, JR, Shumpert, they could be a dangerous bench
ReplyDeleteGreat point. Of course, Lin is definitely starter caliber. But for now, as he gains Woodson's trust, being that dangerous 6th man would be huge. As long as he's helps the Knicks win and get into the playoffs. I'd bet, he would be in during crunch time when the team needs to make plays.
DeleteAs for after the season, he'll reap what he has sown.
I agree, and I also have been saying this. If I was JLin, I rather be playing with second unit than the first unit, so I can show off what I can do and my strengths. JLin's strengths lie in playing in the open spacing and anyone can shoot system -- that was the key to the Linsanity happening.
DeleteEric M: Agreed. Lin's game is tailor-made to be a versatile NBA "third" guard. Eg, Dragic, Terry, West, etc..
DeleteUnfortunately for you guys, Lin puts up starter production.
DeleteLin starts.
Woodson said he's still starting, tonight (for now, anyways).
ReplyDeletehttp://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/will-lin-start-the-new-coach-says-yes/
Everyone please read this article on the knicks and jeremy lin I find this is a great article and should sum up what's about to happen.
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/knicks-coach-might-mean-less-jeremy-lin-more-143041005.html
A good article. I mostly agree with the article. I would actually prefer B. Davis to start with the Knicks starting unit which includes Anthony and Stoudemire, so that JLin can play with 2nd unit more and show that he can do well in this type of system.
DeleteLin needs to play perfect basketball. He cannot afford to take any bad shots, commit any turnovers, or be slow on defense. Don't give Woodson a chance to doubt his abilities and put him on the bench.
ReplyDeleteI smell a setup. It's clear woodson wants his guy davis starting. But, what if davis starts and the team still loses. The blame goes to woodson and the starters.
ReplyDeleteStart lin first blame problems on lin's turnovers and shooting. Afterall, no 6 turnover pg is going to play for woodson. Ease davis into starters role. Knicks don't make the playoffs. Obviously, davis just didn't have enough time to gell with the starters
I don't think they'll conspire to that level. But if they do keep losing yes Lin will undoubtedly get some of the blame since he's going to start. But the person that will get most of the blame will be on Melo because of the whole situation. Knicks are setting up Melo to be the goat. Anything short of a championship within the time period of his contract Melo will be ran out of town as a pariah. Knicks ownership have essentially washed their hands of blame now that Melo chased out the coach. Like the old saying, be careful what you wish for.
DeleteIt's not conspiracy to get lin. It's more office politics and CYA. By conventional logic davis is the better guard. He is a legitimate allstar and we have seen that he can do a good job of running the knick offense.
Deletewoodson should man up, be up front about it. Start who he thinks should be the best for the starters. You know he wants to start davis. Then just do it. w will just put lin under a very short leasch waiting for lin to fail. It's not good for lin. Not good for the team.
I agree with the others that he would develop more as a primary option on the second unit.
A little off topic but I was thinking about D'Antoni's resignation earlier and it dawned on me what may have really transpired.
ReplyDeleteI think what happened was D'Antoni was looking at the schedule and realized it would be tough for his team to make the playoffs and with the trade deadline looming they need to make a change now or never. He had put a lot of faith in Lin but he hasn't orchestrated the team to wins for him the last 10 games. On top of that, Melo was undermining him by not being fully committed to his style of play. So the morning of his resignation he goes to Grunwald and later Dolan and proposes a trade (as reported by David Aldridge) to attempt a swap of Melo for Deron. This takes care of 2 things. It gives him the PG he covets to run his system and gets rid of Melo the player who was not completely buying in. Dolan turns it down, an argument ensues and they both agree it's best they part ways.
I know the above is conjecture but it's based on bits and pieces of information that I've pieced together from various interviews and reports.
I said before, Dantoni leaving might actually be a blessing for Lin. If D-Will had came to the Knicks. Lin would be put on the bench and gotten less time because he would have to share time with BD. Even though Dantoni might have liked Lin he wanted to win.
DeleteNo, the theory was that D'Antoni wanted to run a 3 guard starting lineup with D-Williams, Lin, Fields, Amare, and Chandler. Just like the highly successful 2006 Phoenix Suns with Nash, Barbosa, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, and Boris Diaw/Tim Thomas.
DeleteSuch a lineup would be undersized, so they would be an up-tempo run n' gun team the way D'Antoni likes it.
It would not have put Lin on the bench, he would be the starting shooting guard, since he's the Knicks 2nd best perimeter threat behind Novak.
JLin plays best when he is aggressive. When Melo and Stat came back he had to defer to them. Instead of taking the shot instinctively, he hesitated. Chandler was hurt, so the PnR wasn't as effective.
ReplyDeleteJLin will perform better with the type of players in the second unit, who will play defense and rebound. Additionally, he won't be held responsible when the starter fails because of their poor defense and rebounding.
JLin needs to stay aggressive ad fearless even if it results in some extra turnovers.
This is a very good and fair article written about the state of the Knicks and JLIn. Read it and see if you agree
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/knicks-coach-might-mean-less-jeremy-lin-more-143041005.html;_ylt=AtU3H7Ma_35QJYbxUgqGIUO8vLYF
This morning, I was in a conspiracy state of mind and thought about the catchable passes from Lin that were dropped, the caught passes for makeable shots that were missed, the lack of help on Lin's man, and the lack of rotation when Lin left his man to help, since the superstars came back.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, if there was a conspiracy to make Lin, and by extension D'Antoni, look bad, it worked.
There can be a silver lining with Woodson's system, though. While Lin won't be a D'Antoni PG anymore, he really hasn't been a D'Antoni PG since the superstars returned to the floor anyway.
Lin may now be able to show different strengths in Woodson's system. In my assessment, Lin is a SG/PG combo guard. A major reason for the high number of turnovers is that Lin doesn't have (yet) a NBA PG handle. It didn't hurt him against bad teams, but since the league has adjusted, good teams have been able to disrupt his ball handling, and thus his ability to control tempo and run the offense. Lin has a NBA combo guard handle, however, that's good enough to attack off the ball.
The offense will run through Anthony and Stoudamire, but the PG still has to make the entry pass. Lin can make a solid entry pass. The difference now is that after the ball has been given to Anthony or Stoudamire, Lin is no longer a PG. He becomes a secondary scorer working off of the superstars. If/when they pass the ball back to him, he can be cutting, he can shoot or drive. Lin can do damage when the good defenses are distracted by the superstars rather than focused on him, Lin is moved away from the traps, and moved into space and single coverage, even mismatches, where he can focus on creating off his scoring rather than distributing and controlling tempo.
In short, Woodson's system potentially can place Lin in his more natural role as a scorer with fewer touches but better production with those touches.
these are very good points. lin has to make do in his current situation, but yet play his own game. that is play to his strenghs.
Deletehe's being asked to bring the ball up and get the ball to tony in the right position. fine. this should lower his tos. lin just hangs around for the kickout if there is any. if he gets the ball back do not take the long j. do not pass the ball unless it's to a wide open novak. he has to be agressive and drive take it to the hoop. punk that defense. pass out only when the defense knows it's going to get punked. settle for at most 1-2 long js a game. stay agressive when given the opportunity.
on defense stay on your man. punk the other pg. get inside his jersey. get inside his head. take it to them. he's not going to want a piece of you. lin's teammates need to d-up on their on their own man. if you get into foul problems, so what. davis can take care of it.
controlled aggression.
This is good analysis. I think Lin would prefer to be the PG/Quarterback, but I could see production going up, assists going down, and T/O going down. The trick is, will Melo or Stat pass? I think so.
DeleteIf Lin is willing to make the 2nd 'swing swing' pass - and he is - his assists rate may not go down by that much. More, if defense aren't focused on him as much as before, that can also mean easier passing lanes and fewer passes knocked away or picked off.
DeleteI have no doubt Anthony and Stoudamire will think shot first and play hero ball. But when the double or even triple teams come their way, I believe Anthony and Stoudamire will be more willing to pass now that they're confident the team pecking order has been restored, the offense is running through them, and they'll get all the touches they want. If Lin makes himself the best available relief valve, I think they'll use him.
Lin's doing just fine as a starting pg.
DeleteEven in the throes of Melo, Lin has put up some pretty impressive numbers as a PG.
Let's hope Woodson uses Lin well and that Lin continues to play well as a pg.
Lin himself should leave Knicks as soon as possible because there is no more hope for him to grow, develop, and function well when his teammates are jealous of him. Let those old guards return to their old performance for the Knicks. Lin should not wait for the Knicks to determine his own fate. It is time for him to move away with D'Antoni, his benefactor and major supporter, so the entire Asian world market will also move out of Madison Square Garden. The Knicks is no longer a suitable or friendly home for Lin! He should give up on the Knicks now because Asians in the whole world are giving up on the Knicks any way!
ReplyDelete