Wednesday, March 7, 2012

Knicks @ Spurs Post Game

This was a real ugly game as the Knicks best defenders, Tyson and Jeffries were out. The biggest problem I see going forward is the offensive/defensive balance and being able to spread the floor. You always need at least one of those two on the court for defense. Too bad we couldn't combine Jeffries and Novak. That would be perfect for the stretch 4/5. There's still a lot of time to figure it out.

It's amazing how bad opposing point guards want to outplay JLin. They're all coming at him with playoff like intensity. Should be more of the same next game against Brandon Jennings who could go for 40 against our weak pick and roll defense.

Funny how after their "JLin game", their intensity tails off:

Here is Rondo's line tonight in a loss at Phili:

5 pts
8 assists
1 rebound

Imagine if Jeremy played like this in a 32 point blowout loss.

For those of you jumping off the Lin-Sanity bandwagon, take a look at these per 36 minute stats for this season not including tonight:


Points 20.9 22.9
Assists 8.7 7.7
Rebounds 4.2 3.3
Steals 2.1 .9
FG% .458 .460
3P% .313 .328

His line from tonight:

20pts, 4 assists, 3 rebs, 3 steals, .467% FG, .50% 3P, 1 TO. Thats 11 Assists and 3 Turnovers in the last two games.

Can you see much difference between the reigning MVP and our boy Jeremy's stats?

Jeremy and Stats Post game interviews:

Of course NY media saying if Baron scored we'd be talking about who should be starting. I guess they don't realize he is shooting .29% from the field and has a higher turnover rate then Jeremy:

Rapid Reaction: Spurs 118, Knicks 105 - Knicks Blog - ESPN New York


  1. With the exception of the Heat game, Jeremy has been a net positive in every single game. At some point, when opposing defenses give him the Derrick Rose/Kobe Bryant treatment, the "superstars" need to earn their money and take over.

    That said, tonight's loss was no big deal. It was a road game without Chandler and Jeffries against the one of the hottest and best teams in the league.

  2. Not having either Chandler and Jeffries really hurt. Amare has always been a defensive liability, and tonight he was a free pass to Tony Parker's penetration.

    Defense is the biggest issue I am having with the Knicks as a team, it really bothers me to see players getting into the paint at will without making life difficult for them, the way the opposing teams are doing to Lin. Not crashing the boards bug me a whole lot too, but I do credit Jorts for hustling, that was refreshing.

    And finally, I am going to let it out: Melo and Lin DON'T FIT!!!! They don't! It's frustrating to see how Melo turns into a jump shooter when Lin is penetrating, and in other cases it's all Melo-iso. D'Antoni is too stubborn to make any adjustment to the system, and this is what we're left with...the pre-Lin knicks.

    1. I want to add, Melo's presence on the court overrides Lin's basketball IQ. Naturally Lin passes to whoever has the highest probability of scoring, but with Melo (and Amare to a lesser extend) on the court, the priority is different. If you take away the most superior aspect of Lin's game (basketball IQ), he drops the level. Unfortunately the cause of that is not even from the opponent. It's sad.

    2. You maybe right about Lin and Melo not playing well together as of late. It's Lin's job to get Melo and others involved. They are giving him the ball and a lot of freedom. Lin is not gunning like he used to because teams are scouting him more and taking away his obvious strengths. It's also worth noting that Lin got torched by opposing point guards who are gunning for him now.

  3. Fascinating comparison. Jeremy, as an individual player, is holding up very well. The team is disintergrating however and a lot of that has to do with him trying to force fit his game to satisfy the superstars. It's not about helping the team, the team was doing pretty damn fine with him in control and while we could not have expected his glorious high scoring run to continue, the team were playing much better while he had a free rein. He doesn't anymore, because they are two highly paid, superstars that need to shine more than he does. Except those two superstars are not delivering. Let's be brutally frank, that is the problem. Jeremy has a lot to learn and he has a lot to work on on his game, no question. AND other teams are gunning for him. But even with all that, this team wouldn't have disintergrated the way it has if the guys who are getting paid the big bucks actuallly deliver on court. Instead, it's much easier to play the sophmore who's essentially a rookie because he's game is "flawed" and his not perfectly polished in 15 starts.

    1. I agree. The two stars are underachieving this season to say the least. And Melo finally got his points but he took a lot of shots too. I'm sure Lin would get an easy 20-something points too if he was chucking 20-something shots a game.

  4. Honestly, the Knicks need to think hard about trading Carmelo, either at the deadline or after the season. He's just not a fit for the system and he does nothing defensively or intangibles-wise to justify being an "untouchable" player. As a so-called superstar, he's only really good at one thing: iso-based scoring. And this season, his shooting percentages are down across the board.

    I'm willing to bet the Knicks would win a bunch of games with a line-up of:

    PG: Lin
    SG: Shumpert
    SF: Fields
    PF: Stoudemire
    C: Chandler

    The key here is that there would be better floor balance and defensively they'd be good as well.

    I know Fields doesn't have many fans on this forum, but he's can be a really good player in this league, IMO. He put up 22 and 9 as a senior at Stanford and did it on almost 50% shooting. He can score; believe me, I'm from the Bay Area and I saw him a ton. Better yet, you don't have to run plays for him and he's a really good rebounder. He was a breakout player last season until "The Trade" happened and NY got Anthony.

    And better yet, Jeremy could be Jeremy again. He wouldn't have to sacrifice "his game" to appease a guy like Carmelo. He could play like Derrick Rose, Westbrook, etc. You don't need a ton of stars for your team to be good. OKC really only has Westbrook and Durant. And they clash at times. Chicago really only has Rose, though Deng and Boozer and very good players and Noah is great at what he does (defense/rebounding).

    What could they get for Carmelo? That's a great question. I don't necessarily think they need a star in return, but if they can trade him to the Lakers for Pau Gasol, that would be great. On the other hand, that makes it crowded in the frontcourt for the Knicks.

    1. I trust your judgement about Fields even though I've been Fields' biggest critic.

      Fields should have been a lottery pick Ed Weiland, the UPS truck driver who is smarter than any NBA scout, picked out Fields as one of the great draft prospects. Weiland was right about Fields too.

      I definitely will admit that Fields is a terrific team player. I'd like to see some more selfishness from him, especially in scoring.

    2. Even though I seriously think there's something wrong with Landry's shooting mechanics, and Melo is a higher caliber of player than him, I'd take Landry over Melo to pair up with Lin at any given day.

      Despite being a very good distributor, Jeremy does demand the ball quite a bit; he's been doing that all his life. The Knicks would benefit so much more with a player like Shane Battier. In that sense Landry IS a very good candidate...except he really need to regain his shot back.

  5. Lin is a FA next year... My advice get the hell out of NYC and go to any team not named Knicks, lol

  6. From a basketball perspective, I certainly would not want Derrick Rose over Jeremy Lin. Frankly, I think Lin is a better pg.

    If I think back to the historic point guards that I have seen play, there are only a handful of them that I'd trade Lin straight up for. Magic Johnson, Anfernee Hardaway, Isiah Thomas, and Micheal Ray Richardson (the 1980s Jeremy Lin) are those players.

    No current pg makes my list for trading Lin except for John Wall, and he'd have to be packaged with this year's lottery pick for me to pull the trigger.

    1. I don't disagree. NYK is getting an All-Star level product at a bargain-basement price with Lin. And he's only going to get better. To me, he's a great fit for the system they run. He's a guy they can build around. And that's why I think they got to find a way to get rid of Anthony. Maybe trade HIM to Washington for their lottery pick plus maybe a guy like Rashard Lewis (so the salaries would match) and some throw-ins. See how Lewis fits and if he doesn't pan out, sit him at the end of the bench and amnesty him at the end of the season.

    2. And remember, Anthony is from Baltimore, so I don't think there would be any issues, but who cares really.

    3. You and I care, TVN.

      That is an EXCELLENT trade proposal that is fair for both teams. Normally I frown on trade proposals (especially my own).

      Do you think a powerhouse team like Orlando can be weakened by sending Stou-emire (no D) to pair with Dwight Howard who is a good defender only because the refs protect him too much?

    4. Orlando has Ryan Anderson at the 4 and they like him, so I doubt they'd be interested in STAT.

      I don't have a problem with STAT other than the D, he absolutely needs to be with a guy like Tyson or Jeffries at all times. He's still only 28, so I think there's still a chance he can regain his form and even change his style to be more cerebral (since his athleticism isn't going to get back to where it used to be).

      I don't think there's much hope with Anthony, though. He is what he is.

    5. KHaung, are you serious? You wouldn't want Derrick Rose over Jeremy Lin? By the way, Rose assists to turnovers ratio is much better than Lin. More importantly, Rose is a completed basketball player. Even though I am a Lin's fan, Lin is still learning the game and does have a lot of holes in his game. Your comparisons are flat out ridiculous and non-sense.

    6. yeah I'm gonna have to agree with Ray. I'm a big JLin fan as well but I would def pick Rose over Lin. He is the reigning MVP for pete's sake!

    7. Yeah, and guys like you flamed me when I predicted that Lin could play at an All Star level BEFORE Linsanity happened.

      Rose plays on a team with 4 All Stars. They win more without him than they do with him. When Rose goes down, John Lucas III instantly steps in because the entire team that good. Rose is Rondo with a jumpshot.

      Rose is NOT a point guard even though he calls himself one. He is a small 2 guard in the mold of Allen Iverson, only Rose isn't as good a scorer as Iverson was. In his entire career, Rose has never had to be a distributing pg. What assists he gets come strictly off bailouts when he himself can't score. It's not hard to get assists passing to 4 unselfish All Stars who can shoot and make plays, and Chicago's bench can beat most teams' starting lineups.

      Take Rose off the Bulls and stick him on the Knicks in Lin's place. You'd see a guy who struggles to make basic pg reads and would make Lin look like Bruce Bowen on defense. Put Lin on the Bulls and the Michael Jordan comparisons would immediately start raining in.

      Never before in the history of the NBA has there been a perfect player (not even MJ). So what if Lin has holes in his game? Rose has them too, though the 4 other All Stars and that deep bench cover them up. In fact, I strongly believe that Rose has more holes in his game than Lin does. Plus the refs protect Rose so much that watching a Bulls game is like watching pro wrestling.with scripted endings.

      I do not rank Rose alongside true top tier pgs like Dwill, CP3, Lin, or Nash (John Wall and Kyrie Irving are nearly at that level). Until Rose demonstrates to me that he can run the point, I won't compare him favorably to the guys I mentioned that have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can play PG properly.

    8. Yea Rizzy. I think KHaung has lost touch with the reality. At this point in his career, Jlin ranks like 12th-15th best PG in the league. That's a huge jump from coming out of the bench. Let's hope not but I can see him losing his starting job to Baron Davis. Baron Davis is coming back strong and playing well.

    9. All I got to say is WOWWW. First of all, I got nothing but LOVE for Jlin. He is my favorite NBA player, BUT let's me be realistic. Khaung stated, "Put Lin on the Bulls and the Michael Jordan comparisons would immediately start raining in." You just demonstrate your knowledge about the game of basketball and how ignorance you are. If you asked 100 random people in China, Taiwan or the US, nobody would even dare to compare Jlin to MJ. You should be banned from this website from insulting the knowledge of the true Jlin's fans.

    10. I'm not mad at KHuang for being ridiculously pro Lin cuz I want him to become that good as bad as any Lin fan out there. I think he's doing great for a guy that is basically a rookie. Did the media crap on Rondo or any other allstar pg for having a couple of off nights?? Lin is unfairly being thrown under the bus cuz hes not delivering victories. His shot needs work but I think he has been pretty steady for the most part and his turnovers are down but nobody seems to care about that all of a sudden cuz they are losing. The two superstars inconsistent play on both sides of the ball has been a big contributor to these losses. JR Smith and Baron Davis aren't helping much lately either. So it's basically a team not playing well altogether.

    11. Ray, c'mon.

      You're the guy that wrote on this site that Jeremy Lin can't bring the ball upcourt or isn't NBA ready.

      Before insulting other people here and calling for their bans, maybe you should question you own judgment first. You might find that you aren't as knowledgeable and certainly not as courteous as me or all the other people who disagree with your belief that Lin "isn't NBA ready".

      Darnit. I was trying NOT to have to call out guys like you who were flaming me for saying that Lin is as good as I think he is.

    12. @ray, first off dont call anybody ignorant. Secondly Khuang's point is well taken albeit a few more yrs down the line. Rose is not a true premier pg like Paul, Nash, etc. he's a premier scorer, thats why he is in the conversation as an elite pg. But if he couldnt score that much its a different story. So far Lin is beyond expectations. What makes you think he wont be even greater than Rose. I would not trade him for Rose either for the potential. That is what Khuang is getting at.

    13. If Rose was on the Knicks team, it 'd automatically b Rose's team. It should b Jeremy's team and the whole team will b better. But at this point there are egos to massage. Thats perfectly fine cuz Linsanity will flame out too fast if it continues. Lin needs down time not only on the court but also off-court.

    14. KHuang, nobody saw this Linsanity coming including you. You said, he would be a good player off the bench. A month later, you are comparing him to Michael Jordan, the greatest player in the history of the game.

      Mt, Lin is a good point guard. A smart point guard, more like Andre Miller or Chauncey Billups. Khuang's point is well take that people would be comparing Lin to Jordan in a few years?

    15. I am not here to argue with you, Ray. But I enjoy this debate because it makes OUR hero Jeremy Lim look better.

      I said that Lin would be a good player off the bench but I could have seen him averaging similar stats to what he got in Harvard eventually, which is NOW. I did say that he has All Star potential, and Lin has exhibited that quality during Linsanity.

      What I DIDN'T say was that I had doubts about NBA coaches being smart enough to play Lin proper minutes. I also didn't know if Lin's teammates would ever accept him. I've seen so many NBA ready guys flame out due to personality conflicts that have nothing to do with basketball. I didn't want Lin to become like ex Seattle superstar Dale Ellis who started his career in Dallas buried behind All Stars Mark Aguirre and Rolando Blackman. It turns out that Ellis was a better player than Aguirre and Blackman just as Lin is a better player than Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry.

      Lin did have a historically good start that was BETTER than Jordan's. While defenses have caught up with the Knicks, at least Lin played well enough as a starter to be taken seriously.

      I LOVE Chauncey Billups and Andre Miller. If Lin eventually had a career like those two have had, that would be incredible. Andre Miller in particular is severely underrated and would be an ideal PG for Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks.

  7. At this point in Lin's career, I wouldn't mind if Baron was the starter, as long as the playing time remains about the same. 15 +/- for Baron and 33 +/- for Lin. Let Davis deal with the Melo and Stat egos and Lin concentrate on team play.

    1. Actually, Davis is not fit to play a lot of minutes so, it's better for him to come off the bench. Lin will get over this hurdle and play well again. Melo and STAT are really struggling to fit in with him. I am sure all of these things will work out sooner than later, and Knicks will be ready when it comes to playoff time.

    2. Are you sure things will work out? Remember how dysfunctional the knicks were before Lin came to scene? The knicks are reversing themselves back to those forms. Did Mike D'Antoni make any adjustments? Not really. That's Mike, he stuck with what he believed in. Do you think there'll be another player like Lin storming on stage and turning everything around like Lin did? I am seeing more signs of disparity over gel'n, gotta say that. If I were the GM I would definitely trade Melo for a solid role player like Battier, or some draft picks. It's not all Melo's fault, but if Mike can't maximize Melo's talent in his system and isn't going to adjust the strategy, might well just make the most out of his value.

    3. Just give the Knicks a few more games. Also, don't forget the fact that they are playing good teams on the road instead of easy games at home. Trading Melo at this point would be pretty premature. Melo at his best could be one of the best players in the league and that kind of talent doesn't come by often. Knicks gave up a lot of their key pieces to get Melo last year so, I doubt that they will give up on him this easily. I seriously think they will need him in the playoff.

  8. Thanks for putting up the Rondo stats from last nights game. So I guess Rondo has been exposed now lol. The media is just waiting for Lin to fall on his face. They def love to praise a guy when hes up and kick him when hes down. Scumbags!!!

  9. Rondo has been "exposed" as a very good PG who has rough nights the way Steve Nash or Deron Williams or Chris Paul or any other elite PG will have in today's NBA.

    The 76ers are not all that talented, but they are TOUGH and play as a TEAM. They can be beaten by great players like Lebron or Kobe, but they are great at shutting down anybody who doesn't have Hall of Fame game.

    I don't care what goes on in the media, but I care about what happens on the court. All pgs, including Lin, would have trouble against the Sixers.

  10. I know it was trash time, but Lin scored 8 points in a little under 2 minutes! Makes you wonder what it would be like if the coach designed plays just for Lin.

  11. PWEEZE let me write a non Lin tribute about my favorite player in the NBA (even over Lin), Tim Duncan.

    To me, Tim Duncan is possibly the greatest player of all time. No player I've seen has won so much with so little around him.

    The Spurs are, in my opinion, a one man team. Duncan is the main guy on offense and the main guy on defense. Nobody on the Spurs would be anybody without Duncan, and that includes Tony Parker who teams cannot double because Duncan attracts so much defensive attention and Ginobili who plays in the yawning defensive gaps created by Duncan's presence. I also believe that Bruce Bowen would have not even been in the NBA had he not had Duncan rotating behind him.

    Duncan has slowed down athletically. Yet even as a senior citizen, Duncan is still leading the Spurs to victory. Duncan is surrounded with a roster consisting of Tony Parker, the always injured Ginobili, and a bunch of unwanted players.

    I know that the Spurs are not as strong as they used to be because Duncan isn't the athlete he once was. A young Duncan would not have let Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol beat the Spurs in the playoffs last year. Even so, the Spurs are horrifically tough and can beat anybody on any given night.

    In Amare Stoudemire's defense, it should be noted that no NBA team has ever stopped the Parker Duncan pick and roll. If I were Dantoni, I'd live with Parker shooting the Spurs to victory if it meant keeping the ball away from Duncan. Once Duncan gets that ball, he destroys teams.

    I hope Jeremy Lin can become a guard version of Tim Duncan one day. I believe that with much work, it can happen.

    1. With all due respect to Tim, I am happy for him to have landed on the Spurs with coach Pop. There was NO WAY he would have lived the career of today had he been with D'Antoni as his career coach. Had Stat started his career with Greg Pop, he wouldn't had been such a defensive liability of today. When Jeremy was lingering on the warrior's bench, I really wished he could have a chance to play against the Spurs and getting himself traded to the team. Heck, I AM still wishing that to happen, Jeremy learning the game from Greg Pop and playing along side Tony Parker and other.

      Oh well.

    2. Actually, I think Popovich would have bypassed Amare Stoudemire in the draft or traded himoff the Spurs.

      Stoudemire is what I call a great "vertical athlete". If basketball were strictly a jumping and strength contest, Stoudemire would be great. However basketball is also played "horizontally" via reflexes, positioning, court sense, and teamwork. Given that guys with both "horizontal" and "vertical" talent tend to be great players (Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Lin), the Spurs settle for horizontal if they can't get vertical.

      I just cannot envision Stoudemire fitting into the Spurs system. He'd have to overhaul his game, which is what the Spurs tried with Richard Jefferson and failed at (Kawhi Leonard will eventually take Richardson's spot). Even so, Stoudemire simply doesn't have the court awareness or lateral athleticism to be a Spur under Popovich.

      Lin, on the other hand, has all the traits to succeed with the Spurs. However it would be hard to find minutes on that roster. I believe that Popovich would happily deploy Parker, Ginobili, and Lin all at once.

  12. lin is not getting those "superstar" fouls like derrick rose. in fact he's not even getting fouls called on him and. when he does get fouls, it goes against him. imagine his production and confidence when he drives in for a layup and he knows he will get and ones and shoot free throws. if i was driving it in and a guy tries to decapitate me and no foul was called my confidence would take a hit.

  13. When (not if) Lin stands up for himself, the rest of the Knicks will immediately rally behind him.

    I am glad that the Knicks are standing back to see if Lin gets tough. Bodyguarding him right now only enables Lin to continue being a pansy.

    Lin's teammates are doing their best to help him.

  14. I expect to see more of the Lin/Davis backcourt next game. Lin still starts, but their minutes overlap more. Benefits: Lin, when he gets the ball, can concentrate on scoring and creating off his scoring, better second passes.

  15. Maybe Lin wins w/o Melo? Then send Melo to Golden State!

    1. that's a great idea :)

      But whom will be sent to NYK by GSW? Interesting !?