great players can still play defense and be productive on the offensive end. that's why they are great players. lin is just struggling with his shot. has nothing to do with defense.
He also shot poorly in the win vs. 76ers. I think part of it is being on the road and not having time to practice his shooting stroke. He just barely learned his new shooting style a few months ago, not enough time to develop good muscle memory.
Maybe when he gets back to NYC, he can get more practice shots in. Hopefully as time passes he becomes a more natural shooter, and muscle memory stays with him longer.
Spot on ABC...Arc on 1st couple of 3's too high...The first one in 2nd that missed a bit short was his shot...which shows he self corrected at half. A good sign
Lin knocked down the left corner jumper on a fast break pass from Melo in the 3rd Quarter, but that was counted as a 2-point shot because his foot was on the line. I thought that could be the beginning of a hot streak, but it wasn't.
He needs to learn to be a better spot up shooter, keep his feet behind the line, and not hesitate to shoot.
Knicks should consider hiring Doc Scheppler full time. He's certainly much better than the Knicks shooting coach. Now if only they can offer Doc enough money to lure him away from Bay Area High School girl's basketball.
The Knicks already lost this game. Bad shooting, no hustle. Toronto is hitting every shot, Knicks are missing point blank. Fouling the Raps like crazy. Don't know what happened. I feel sorry for the Chinese viewers who are watching the "first Mandarin broadcast of a Toronto Raptors game", they must be so disappointed in this lack of effort.
Ominously, so far, this games reminds me of the New Orleans game at the Garden.
They came off blow out of Sacramento that time and seemed complacent, thinking they could just scrimmage first quarter against New Orleans trying to get Stat back in rhythm, and assumed they would blow them out in second or third quarter, and have starters rest whole fourth quarter.
Opening of this game (trying to force feed Melo?), to me at least, suggests jealousy of Linsanity might be rearing it's ugly head again.
I've been saying all along - from when the two stars returned after injury (and the subsequent losing streak) to D'Antoni leaving - that Jeremy Lin would be much better off to NOT RE-SIGN with the Knicks, no matter what happens. Too much JEALOUSY and resentment resulted from the SUDDEN and UNEXPECTED success of Jeremy Lin, going from the last of the pecking order on the team to the forefront or a co-leader. It must have been a shock to Carmelo ($21.5 mil yr man) in particular; too many ruffled feathers; must be hard for him, just being human.
After the coach change, the Knicks got the normal win streak that's typical when there is a shake-up. However, I was wondering how long it would last, because despite the fact that Lin was expected to fail (based on what?) in the new coach's "conventional system" Lin did quite well (prior to today - except for the game the day of D'Antoni's sudden departure), to the point of resuming headlines such as "Lindiana", "Lin finishes strong in Philly", and "Lin's Knicks _ _ _ ". This probably got Carmelo thinking "not again!" and probably got Woodson thinking "Lin's making me foolish by proving me wrong!" (though must be conflicted as a winning coach).
Also, Melo's fans (I'm sure Melo was too) were not happy that Woodson used Lin as the *closer* in the Sixers game. Woodson probably realized that it was just the opposite of what he said publicly (apparently to appease the established stars and to put Lin "in his place"), that under his coaching, the two big stars will close out the games, and that Lin is to "sit, listen, and learn" from the pros.
Thus I think, due to so much tension and conflicts, a lot of Lin's fans sense that it would be in Lin's best interest to sign with another team and start anew.
Knicks are getting the *ss-whooping they deserved because jealousy of Linsanity rearing it's ugly head in locker room again.
Lin looks like he is intentionally deferring, and other Knicks are trying to be the fearless, not afraid to fail Knick that Woodson described Lin as.
Only silver lining is maybe Knicks have to do everything hard way, squeaking into playoffs against Bulls, then finally coming together for serious playoff push.
Knicks just could not make a shot tonight. It happens.
But Woodson made a colossal mistake by taking the ball out of Lin's hands during crunch time. Running the offense through Melo, Smith and Davis cost them any chance.
Did they even run any pick and rolls tonight? I bet I could count them on one hand.
Jeremy carved up the Raptors twice in a row, but Woodson foolishly decided to veer away from the winning/Linning formula and he got burned. Even when his shot doesn't fall, Jeremy can get to the line, but Woodson didn't even give him a chance.
What was up with Lin's game today? Did the coach not give him the green light this game. They should have played the offense through Lin in the 4th quarter with the high pick and roll, instead they made him a passive point guard differing to JR choke Smith.
I only was able to see the second half. But yeah, I agree with some of these comments. Did they think they could win without getting Jlin the ball? Almost as if they wanted others to get involved in the game besides Lin. Plus, why did he play so few minutes. Woodson waited way too long. If this is not corrected in next game, this will spell trouble for the Knicks.
I agree with Joe's comments above. It looks like JLin is not driving to the basket much, or at all this game. It was right before the game ended Jlin finally drove. No pick-n-roll with Chandler, Melo, or whoever--maybe 1 with Melo in which he drove to the basket. JLin is basically deferring the ball to the 'superstars.' I think there may be some grumblings about Jlin taking too many shots yesterday vs Philly. I think he may be reluctant to take anymore shots after taking 9 already. The offense look stagnant today probably because Woodson changed it up to accommodate the superstars, and the defensive intensity wasn't there. I heard JLin complaining to Woodson that someone needs to call out screeners because JLin got decked.
It's so frustrating to watch the knicks. 500 mark was theirs for the taking tonight. But instead of bringing every ounce of effort into the game, the whole team looked like they gorged themselves at the chineese buffet in Toronto right before tip-off. This is why they need JJ. Even Tyson looked sleepy. Everyone looked like they needed the 5-hour energy drink. Even Jeremy. They can kiss their post season goodbye w/ this kind of effort
Racha if this is the case, then JLin needs to get our of NYK next season. All these egos and selfishness is not going to help him. If it wasn't for JLin producing in the 4th quarter in their against philly they would have lost.
If this keeps up NYK will have another loosing streak and there goes Woodson's coaching job.
These kind of things really gets on my nerves. This kind of thing would never happen to other players, but Jlin being who he is, superstars in his own team are hating on his game. It's very frustrating...
Yeah man. I hope my speculations aren't true about the superstars. I really want this to work for JLin, but if not oh well. I guess JLin can start looking for another team, or better yet Phil Jackson can be the coach and he will be tasked with taming the egomaniacs.
They're gunna lose to Pistons at this rate, game was painful to watch. No hustle, looks like the honeymoon period is over, was hoping it lasts longer. Yep JLin was deferring like mad, 3-9, drew no fouls. This is one of Woodson's changes that he talked about, sigh I bet he's going to start BD too. Watching Baron play made me scream at the TV, he is just too slow. BD/Melo/Stat cannot close, what was Woodson thinking?
Didn't get to watch much of this game, but it seems like our boy JLin was reluctant to shoot the ball. He wasn't as aggressive as we'd seen him. Offensively, he didn't take charge at all. Perhaps, Joe above was right about Lin deferring intentionally, and the team didn't live up to their egos, especially Carmelo and JR Smith. JLin's at his best when he take charge of the offense. Let's wait and see what Woodson's game plan for tomorrow.
Too many bad signs. Also, Dolan is not a good team owner to play for (search him in the NYTimes). As soon as players begin to gel, Dolan has the urge to "win it NOW" and make blunderous trades. It's hard to have the all-important team chemistry that way.
There's probably some locker room drama going on. I always feel like deep down inside Melo's and Woodson's heart and mind, they detest Jeremy Lin and would rather see B Davis excel in the starting line up. But if they go that route, Knicks won't even make it to the playoffs.
I hope Jlin keeps on persevering through all the adversities and goes to another team next season that's willing to build a team around him.
By the way, NOT "... deep down inside".... More like *just under the surface*, as well as overtly; just reading between the lines, as well as strongly implied statements. Anthony and Woodson are definitely jealous and resentful. I consider the Knicks a hostile and tension-riddled environment in which Lin is forced to work. Poor Lin, he was just doing his good job as an employee.
Lin needs to be with a team where he is allowed to be a combo guard (think it's called?) like before. I think I read that's what Tony Parker of Spurs is doing this year. Some teams are fine with having 2 or 3 superstars (such as Celtics, Spurs, Heat, and Thunder)..... I think what may be the problem with the Knicks' players situation is that not only the *sudden* and *unexpected* factors that I've mentioned before, but ALSO the fact that Lin is only being paid the league's minimum. This transpires the fact that the highly-paid "real superstars" are gross under-performers this year. Thus the superstars have been in a hot seat and under a lot of pressure - all in a tough NY stage.
THEREFORE .... Again.... It is in Jeremy Lin's best interest to sign with another team and start anew.
Here's an article by Larry Coon, Special to ESPN.com http://lin-sanity.net/Lin-Sanity_News.html sub-titled 'Lin unlikely to slip through New York Knicks' hands in free agency this NBA offseason'
I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND the article entirely; I'm confused..... Can anyone let me know whether Lin is really *stuck* with the Knicks for at least one year (no maneuverable loophole out of it ?).
This team does not deserve to be in the playoffs if they play like this. They have almost abandoned using the pick and roll, and going to Carmelo and Amare post ups, Lin is now just a spectator camping out behind the 3-point line.
It looks like the Milwaukee Bucks, want it more. And they have no superstar $100 million contracts who demand the ball on each possession.
First the statements by Woodson.... now the implementation - when he thinks the public uproar (over why punish Lin when he still has done well during the losing streak) have subsided or think many of the fans are not paying close attention or don't know better in the case of newbie fans.
Regardless, I think Lin will be in demand by some owners with good teams. They must know about all the drama in NY.
guys i'm not too worried. if woodson wants a job somewhere next year, he'll start playing lin to win games. woodson felt it's the raptors and maybe he can use this game as an excuse to win without lin and play up to the egos, but you can see that not possible. only lin can win games for the knicks.
Sometimes teams just get tired, mentally and physically. That is the nature of NBA basketball. Jeremy Lin is essentially a rookie learning the NBA game. Some nights he just isn't going to have his spark, and he's going to have to learn to play through that.
I seriously doubt that Mike Woodson or the other Knicks are intentionally curtailing Lin. More likely, Lin just wasn't feeling it and that's why he couldn't produce tonight.
The Knicks are Lin's team. When he plays well, the Knicks win even if the other Knicks are playing poorly. When he plays poorly, the Knicks lose even if the other Knicks are playibg well.
The same problems that haunted the Knicks before Woodson are coming up again. They aren't a good outside shooting team, the other team can go into a zone defense and shut them down inside. That's why Baron Davis and the bench did so well, because they CAN shoot from outside, and they DON'T rely on isolation post-ups.
Also, Landry Fields should not be a starter. He has been bad for the Knicks starting lineup for a while, he's not hitting outside shots, struggling from the FT line and not playing much defense either.
The biggest problem of tonight's game was that the entire team, other than Novak, could not hit their outside jumpers. JLin 1-for-6, Carmelo 1-for-9, JR 2-for-8. Everyone except Novak, 0-for-19 on 3s. STAT was the only player who focused on scoring in the paint, as he took just one outside shot and missed.
let's remember this is one game, so not too get too riled up. off night for a lot of people...definitely missed jared jeffries too
one thing i hope for lin: sometimes when he struggles to score, he sometimes forces outside shots without running an offensive play or moving the ball. i'd prefer him to run some play first, and attempt a shot in the flow of the offense. if he wants to initiate himself, i'd rather him attack the basket.
raptors were hot no doubt, but knicks also missed quite a few shots that have been falling recently (especially from lin and smith).
all in all, i still don't think the last 5 games were a fluke. it's hard to keep 100% mental intensity every single night, so hopefully they can forget this one and move on.
We should not, but if the Knicks want to make the playoffs, then this was a MUST WIN.
Yes, it was against a terrible team in the Raptors. But one thing about terrible teams ... is that they can still beat you don't come out with energy. And if they have players that are mismatches.
Nobody could stop Demar Derozan tonight, he was hitting all kinds of contested shots. Amare and Chandler had trouble containing Bargnagni, they made him look like Dirk Nowitzki.
The Knicks do struggle against teams that can shoot from outside. And the Raptors had everyone hitting at least one jumpshot.
It was not Lin's fault. In fact, they did not use him much at all in their offense. They used very few pick and roll plays. Lots of Iso ball with Melo and Amare.
I guess we got a firsthand look at Coach Woodson's new Lin-less system.
Bad loss but it was sort of inevitable, the winning can't go on forever. I think the zone Toronto played caught them off-guard, coupled with some tiredness and lack of energy and this is the result. Not the greatest timing with the struggle for the playoffs in full blast but that's the way the penny drops sometimes. The Knicks might have been complacent about facing the Raptors so this was good wake-up call. I doubt (hope!) they will be caught off-guard like this again.
I'm always up for a conspiracy theory but I don't think Woodson has it in for Lin. They have got to try out other line-ups and perhaps Woodson (wrongly) felt the Raptors was a good game to try and reintroduce Baron Davis. The result speaks for itself. JLin had an off night but i do hope Melo's shooting troubles are not contagious. If Lin and the Knicks play badly tomorrow, I might start to get concerned. Until then, this was just a bad game and everyone one has those every so often.
Stop making excuses for Jeremy! He needs to play and shoot the ball better period! Because unlike his star teammates, he did not have any resume to fall back to. He has to earn his playing time and play calls! Anyone who thinks that Woodson has the complete faith in Jeremy please think again. He had to do that because in the last several games, Baron Davis was injuried or totally stunk it up. That was why Jeremy got those opportunities before even he did not play well sometimes early in the game. Jeremy really has to play with more of an urgency that he has to compete for the playing time like he was still a bench player! Do not worry about him yet. I am sure this will make him a better player. Sooner than later, he will earn the trust of coach by his good play.
What do you expect him to do ? Go off shooting like Kobe Bryant ? Take every Knicks shot ?
He was doing what the coach wants him to do. Set up Carmelo and Amare near the basket. That's his role now. They got the ball inside and couldn't convert.
I agree with ABC Baller. Jlin was doing what the Coach wanted him to, he was sticking to the new gameplan and it back fired on Woodson's face. Like I've been saying along Woodson doesn't like Jlin, he's just putting up a front to please his boss.
Sigh! From an outside perspective, Knicks sure are an exasperating team, a bit like supporting Arsenal FC these last few years. Just when you think they have achieved the mental toughness to go on a long winning run and be a championship team, they just go collapsing on you. They need to slog out those ugly wins against the lower teams if they are to become successful.
Inexperience, not enough team chemistry. The good teams that win most of the time .... they have experienced veterans, good leaders, good coaches, etc. It's like they know where their teammates are at all times, and can predict what they are going to do.
Knicks are playing like a newly formed team. Nobody really knows one another or what they are going do. So then each player then has to score on their own. Which is hard against a good defense.
it's too early to give up New York. this team hasn't been together for very long. they have just found a core in Lin - Stat - Melo - Fields - Chandler that works well and is getting better. this is a team that can make a good amount of noise in the eastern conference. it's way better for lin to play on a contender than be the leading scorer on a team that is gong no where like the golden state. it pains me to say this because i love the warriors and wish they would get better but it's true. starting PG positions on serious contending teams are few and far between. this team will be back next year and will be even better. just have patience.
Yeah, I believe that Amare and Melo are going to magically continue to give effort on defense over the course of a season--even though they have never done that for any sustained period over their entire NBA careers.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
Yeah... not sure it's going to happen but they have shown signs they are willing.
I'm just trying to be optimistic here. There is a very good chance that Lin is going to be on the Knicks for the foreseeable future. They can match any offer next year and there are plenty of reasons for him to stay in NY. The Melo - Stat - Chandler core isn't going anywhere so this is the team he's got to work with. Personally I think it's a better situation than Golden State or Houston.
Folks, the sky is not falling...one bad game out of the last six that they didn't win? Even the mighty Bulls and the Heat lose games that they should have won. I thought Toronto played a very energetic game. They were hustling and were making contested shots one after another. It seemed like it was there night.
Woodson could have put the ball in Lins hands again right at the start of the 4th, but somehow JR Smith ended up with the ball, and he kept throwing it up early in the shot clock.
The Knicks and Jeremy didn't have it today. Onto to the next game -- another win. :)
oops sorry for the weird post. i'm having trouble with my openID. anyways... just wanted to say stop freaking out guys. we all want jeremy to succeed and he will but this is the NBA. games like this happen. even bad teams are full of great players that can put together a good game one night. lin is going to have some bad games. have patience and don't freak out and don't start all of these crazy conspiracy theories. makes us lin fans sound hysterical and crazy. which we are...
I said it before once Baron got healthy again there would be problems. Somehow it did look like it bothered Jeremy be it minutes or confidence. The GM and coach should really make it clear to Baron that no matter how well you play you will not start or play in crunch time instead of Lin. ust like in Chicago no matter how well John Lucas plays in Derrick Rose's absence he still is forever a back up to Rose.
woodson has made it clear that Lin is the starter and will be moving forward. tonight davis was able to get some penetration and key a run with the second unit so he got to stay in the game a little longer. nothing to get too worked up about... it's not a trend yet.
But I quite hate that Baron is allowed to pick and roll and penerate but Lin's main job is to bring the ball up court and pass around the perimeter and be a spot up shooter...
It's not that Baron is "allowed" to pick and roll and penetrate and Lin isn't. It's just that tonight Lin wasn't aggressive at attacking the zone and thus wasn't as successful as Baron in getting to the rim. But he'll learn the team will learn and it won't be as successful next time. The knicks are not the best jump shooting team and they fell into the trap of shooting jumpers around the perimeter of the zone instead of attacking. Tonight Casey came up with a great game plan and the zone slowed the knicks down and when they started settling and missing jumpers the whole thing fell apart. They got frustrated and didn't have any kind of rhythm.
Look, Jeremy can't be the savior every night. It's very easy to remember thes is essentially his rookie year as a starter and in a condensed season, that's bound to have an effect on some of his games. Dude is not a machine. In fact, this is when his superstar teammates, who have been doing this a lot longer than he has and who are getting paid big bucks for their talent, should be stepping up and taking over the games. Except it seems if Jeremy has a bad day, the Knicks have a bad day. There's no doubting that when he's off the court, play is stagnant and they can't seem to claw themselves back into the game. He's the PG, I get it but the Bulls are able to cope without DRose. Why can't the Knicks cope without their rookie PG? I'm starting to resent that a good deal of the responsibility falls with Lin and he gets very little help from his seasoned teammates.
Having said that, it's not an unusual for an entire team to be off. It's just starting to feel like Jeremy needs to be on all the time to pull this team through games and that's not fair on any level.
I agree we that us rabid Lin fans need to have patience. There are going to be plenty of bad games in his career. This Knicks team is also very young. It's as young as Lin's starts. There is a lot of potential with this team but they are going to need time to figure it out. They still don't have an identity and the roles haven't been defined clearly. It's unfair to compare the Knicks to the Bulls right now. The Bulls core has been together since 2008. They have a clear identity, have pieces that work together well and unbelievable team chemistry. The Knicks are not even close to being on the same level as a team. Individually there might be more talent on the Knicks but the Bulls are a far superior team at the moment. Before Linsanity the Knicks were still trying to figure out how to have Amare and Melo be effective together. With Lin I think it is pretty clear that they have a team that can compete very well in the East for the foreseeable future but it's not going to happen overnight. The glimpses of what the knicks can be have been very tantalizing but it's just going to take a little time. Hopefully they'll get the time but given the history of the Knicks management anything is possible!
I understand this is a Jeremy Lin fan site and we are all fans here, but some objectivity is needed here. Even Jeremy has mentioned that his mates have bailed him out when he was playing badly. And the bench team has more than once pulled the starters out of trouble. So we've got to give them credit when the team wins. Jeremy is not Superman. So the argument that Knicks only play well only when Jeremy is playing well is a bit too far fetched in my opinion.
No, Jeremy Lin has to play well for the Knicks to win.
If you look at the statistics before and after Lin was promoted to the rotation, the Knicks are better in most categories with Lin in the lineup. That includes the win loss record.
The Knicks depend on Lin to spearhead their efforts on both ends. He is the "glue guy" that makes the Knicks a real team.
When Lin plays poorly, it has a ripple effect on the rest of the team. Guys shoot and defend poorly because everybody depends on Lin as the leader. When Lin sits, there is a dramatic dropoff in play.
Mike Woodson can bench Lin out of the NBA if he wants, but that would destroy his team. Similarly, the teammates that have issue with Lin would find themselves losing a lot of games that they should've won. Several times Lin has had to save he Knicks in the 4th quarter.
Lin has all of this figured out pretty good. He coasts for the 1st 3 quarters, thus allowing his teammates to win the game if they can. When the 4th quarter hits, Lin takes over because the teammates look to him to win the game. This is what Michael Jordan did once he had enough help around him to win championships.
The Knicks will go as far as Lin can lead them. However, I've been saying for weeks that the Knicks need a starting caliber SG so that guys like DeRozan don't go for 30.
The best thing would be to start Shumpert or JR Smith at the SG position since they are better defenders. But their shooting has been terrible lately. Landry Fields has a higher basketball IQ and knows how to make off-the-ball cuts to the basket. So right now, Knicks are stuck with Landry Fields as starting Shooting guard who can't shoot.
Fields is a very good defender. Shumpert is a better on the ball defender but Fields D is solid. Smith can play D when he wants but his bball IQ is too low and would be completely frustrating as a starter. Fields makes good decisions consistently. I'd much rather stick with Fields in the starting line up.
I didnt get to watch the game. Lin did mention that this is the first time he's seen a zone defense played against them. for some reason nba teams have some of the worst games when playing against a zone. I know the lakers have a tough time with it, especially when it's a team with a zone and a penetrating guard. They have some miserable games against it. The way to beat a zone is to attack the middle seams. Sounds to me that should be lin's specialty. Overtime lin will get it, but it better be quick, cuz more teams will be using it now. Bring it on, accelerated learning at its best. Woodson should play lin more in this game, cuz he is best fit to beat the zone. However, he might be giving his second unit more time to prepare them for the playoffs. Jury is still out. We'll see
Don't worry. The Knicks were just tired. When a team is tired, nothing works right.
NBA coaches and players have an unspoken rule that fatigue is not to be acknowledged as a reason for defeat. It's a macho thing, just like nobody will ever admit that they got stopped defensively.
It is up to the coach to prep the whole team on how to play and attack a zone defense. It was something unexpected so they probably didnt prepare for it. Like anything you need repetitions to get it right. However, lin has a headups on the other guys since he just came out of college where they played mostly zone d.
Woodson's a good coach, but not a great one. He's not championship caliber. A great coach makes adjustments during the course of the game and especially half time. It's inexcusable the offense was so stagnate and it was the wrong move to keep Baron in so long. Woodson said the following after the post-game that "it was bad coaching..". He was right about that one. I still think he prefers to go with Baron which is unfortunate.
In a nut shell: The Knicks missed lots of shots and the Raptors made more shots. Lin had No free throw attempts meaning he rarely went hard to the basket.
Lin not having confidence in his own shot. Had a wide open 3-pointer, but put the ball on the floor and dribbled right into a defender, turnover.
ReplyDeleteHis jumper has been shaky these past two games, but I think that's just an effect of the physical defense he and the Knicks have been playing.
ReplyDeleteThat's why so many great scorers (like Melo) don't like to play defense. It wears them out faster and causes them to miss shots, especially jumpers.
great players can still play defense and be productive on the offensive end. that's why they are great players. lin is just struggling with his shot. has nothing to do with defense.
DeleteHe also shot poorly in the win vs. 76ers. I think part of it is being on the road and not having time to practice his shooting stroke. He just barely learned his new shooting style a few months ago, not enough time to develop good muscle memory.
DeleteMaybe when he gets back to NYC, he can get more practice shots in.
Hopefully as time passes he becomes a more natural shooter, and muscle memory stays with him longer.
Spot on ABC...Arc on 1st couple of 3's too high...The first one in 2nd that missed a bit short was his shot...which shows he self corrected at half. A good sign
DeleteLin knocked down the left corner jumper on a fast break pass from Melo in the 3rd Quarter, but that was counted as a 2-point shot because his foot was on the line. I thought that could be the beginning of a hot streak, but it wasn't.
DeleteHe needs to learn to be a better spot up shooter, keep his feet behind the line, and not hesitate to shoot.
Consistent 3pt shooting is still JLin17's biggest weakness. Hopefully he joins Landry this summer for another Doc Scheppler shooting session.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dopewar.com
Knicks should consider hiring Doc Scheppler full time. He's certainly much better than the Knicks shooting coach. Now if only they can offer Doc enough money to lure him away from Bay Area High School girl's basketball.
DeleteThe whole Knick team looks off tonight, yet they are only down 3 at the half
ReplyDeleteThe Knicks already lost this game. Bad shooting, no hustle. Toronto is hitting every shot, Knicks are missing point blank. Fouling the Raps like crazy. Don't know what happened. I feel sorry for the Chinese viewers who are watching the "first Mandarin broadcast of a Toronto Raptors game", they must be so disappointed in this lack of effort.
ReplyDeleteOminously, so far, this games reminds me of the New Orleans game at the Garden.
ReplyDeleteThey came off blow out of Sacramento that time and seemed complacent, thinking they could just scrimmage first quarter against New Orleans trying to get Stat back in rhythm, and assumed they would blow them out in second or third quarter, and have starters rest whole fourth quarter.
Opening of this game (trying to force feed Melo?), to me at least, suggests jealousy of Linsanity might be rearing it's ugly head again.
I've been saying all along - from when the two stars returned after injury (and the subsequent losing streak) to D'Antoni leaving - that Jeremy Lin would be much better off to NOT RE-SIGN with the Knicks, no matter what happens. Too much JEALOUSY and resentment resulted from the SUDDEN and UNEXPECTED success of Jeremy Lin, going from the last of the pecking order on the team to the forefront or a co-leader. It must have been a shock to Carmelo ($21.5 mil yr man) in particular; too many ruffled feathers; must be hard for him, just being human.
DeleteAfter the coach change, the Knicks got the normal win streak that's typical when there is a shake-up. However, I was wondering how long it would last, because despite the fact that Lin was expected to fail (based on what?) in the new coach's "conventional system" Lin did quite well (prior to today - except for the game the day of D'Antoni's sudden departure), to the point of resuming headlines such as "Lindiana", "Lin finishes strong in Philly", and "Lin's Knicks _ _ _ ". This probably got Carmelo thinking "not again!" and probably got Woodson thinking "Lin's making me foolish by proving me wrong!" (though must be conflicted as a winning coach).
Also, Melo's fans (I'm sure Melo was too) were not happy that Woodson used Lin as the *closer* in the Sixers game. Woodson probably realized that it was just the opposite of what he said publicly (apparently to appease the established stars and to put Lin "in his place"), that under his coaching, the two big stars will close out the games, and that Lin is to "sit, listen, and learn" from the pros.
Thus I think, due to so much tension and conflicts, a lot of Lin's fans sense that it would be in Lin's best interest to sign with another team and start anew.
Seriously, only 53 points for the Knicks entering the 4th quarter ???
ReplyDeleteThis is even WORSE than that Miami game. They are getting blown out and outclassed by Toronto.
ReplyDeleteJR Smith is a joke
ReplyDeleteKnicks are getting the *ss-whooping they deserved because jealousy of Linsanity rearing it's ugly head in locker room again.
ReplyDeleteLin looks like he is intentionally deferring, and other Knicks are trying to be the fearless, not afraid to fail Knick that Woodson described Lin as.
Only silver lining is maybe Knicks have to do everything hard way, squeaking into playoffs against Bulls, then finally coming together for serious playoff push.
so are Amare's butter fingers
ReplyDeleteKnicks just could not make a shot tonight. It happens.
ReplyDeleteBut Woodson made a colossal mistake by taking the ball out of Lin's hands during crunch time. Running the offense through Melo, Smith and Davis cost them any chance.
Now it's too late.
Did they even run any pick and rolls tonight? I bet I could count them on one hand.
ReplyDeleteJeremy carved up the Raptors twice in a row, but Woodson foolishly decided to veer away from the winning/Linning formula and he got burned. Even when his shot doesn't fall, Jeremy can get to the line, but Woodson didn't even give him a chance.
What was up with Lin's game today? Did the coach not give him the green light this game. They should have played the offense through Lin in the 4th quarter with the high pick and roll, instead they made him a passive point guard differing to JR choke Smith.
ReplyDeletei didn't get to watch this game. glad i missed it.
ReplyDeleteI only was able to see the second half. But yeah, I agree with some of these comments. Did they think they could win without getting Jlin the ball? Almost as if they wanted others to get involved in the game besides Lin. Plus, why did he play so few minutes. Woodson waited way too long. If this is not corrected in next game, this will spell trouble for the Knicks.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Joe's comments above. It looks like JLin is not driving to the basket much, or at all this game. It was right before the game ended Jlin finally drove. No pick-n-roll with Chandler, Melo, or whoever--maybe 1 with Melo in which he drove to the basket. JLin is basically deferring the ball to the 'superstars.' I think there may be some grumblings about Jlin taking too many shots yesterday vs Philly. I think he may be reluctant to take anymore shots after taking 9 already. The offense look stagnant today probably because Woodson changed it up to accommodate the superstars, and the defensive intensity wasn't there. I heard JLin complaining to Woodson that someone needs to call out screeners because JLin got decked.
ReplyDeleteIt's so frustrating to watch the knicks. 500 mark was theirs for the taking tonight. But instead of bringing every ounce of effort into the game, the whole team looked like they gorged themselves at the chineese buffet in Toronto right before tip-off. This is why they need JJ. Even Tyson looked sleepy. Everyone looked like they needed the 5-hour energy drink. Even Jeremy.
ReplyDeleteThey can kiss their post season goodbye w/ this kind of effort
Racha if this is the case, then JLin needs to get our of NYK next season. All these egos and selfishness is not going to help him. If it wasn't for JLin producing in the 4th quarter in their against philly they would have lost.
ReplyDeleteIf this keeps up NYK will have another loosing streak and there goes Woodson's coaching job.
These kind of things really gets on my nerves. This kind of thing would never happen to other players, but Jlin being who he is, superstars in his own team are hating on his game. It's very frustrating...
Yeah man. I hope my speculations aren't true about the superstars. I really want this to work for JLin, but if not oh well. I guess JLin can start looking for another team, or better yet Phil Jackson can be the coach and he will be tasked with taming the egomaniacs.
DeleteThey're gunna lose to Pistons at this rate, game was painful to watch. No hustle, looks like the honeymoon period is over, was hoping it lasts longer. Yep JLin was deferring like mad, 3-9, drew no fouls. This is one of Woodson's changes that he talked about, sigh I bet he's going to start BD too. Watching Baron play made me scream at the TV, he is just too slow. BD/Melo/Stat cannot close, what was Woodson thinking?
ReplyDeleteDidn't get to watch much of this game, but it seems like our boy JLin was reluctant to shoot the ball. He wasn't as aggressive as we'd seen him. Offensively, he didn't take charge at all. Perhaps, Joe above was right about Lin deferring intentionally, and the team didn't live up to their egos, especially Carmelo and JR Smith. JLin's at his best when he take charge of the offense. Let's wait and see what Woodson's game plan for tomorrow.
ReplyDeletethe honeymoon is over! please don't resign with the knicks jeremy!
ReplyDeleteAgree!
DeleteJeremy, DON'T RE-SIGN with the Knicks!
Too many bad signs. Also, Dolan is not a good team owner to play for (search him in the NYTimes). As soon as players begin to gel, Dolan has the urge to "win it NOW" and make blunderous trades. It's hard to have the all-important team chemistry that way.
There's probably some locker room drama going on. I always feel like deep down inside Melo's and Woodson's heart and mind, they detest Jeremy Lin and would rather see B Davis excel in the starting line up. But if they go that route, Knicks won't even make it to the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteI hope Jlin keeps on persevering through all the adversities and goes to another team next season that's willing to build a team around him.
Absolutely agree that Lin should to another team!
DeleteBy the way, NOT "... deep down inside".... More like *just under the surface*, as well as overtly; just reading between the lines, as well as strongly implied statements. Anthony and Woodson are definitely jealous and resentful. I consider the Knicks a hostile and tension-riddled environment in which Lin is forced to work. Poor Lin, he was just doing his good job as an employee.
Lin needs to be with a team where he is allowed to be a combo guard (think it's called?) like before. I think I read that's what Tony Parker of Spurs is doing this year. Some teams are fine with having 2 or 3 superstars (such as Celtics, Spurs, Heat, and Thunder)..... I think what may be the problem with the Knicks' players situation is that not only the *sudden* and *unexpected* factors that I've mentioned before, but ALSO the fact that Lin is only being paid the league's minimum. This transpires the fact that the highly-paid "real superstars" are gross under-performers this year. Thus the superstars have been in a hot seat and under a lot of pressure - all in a tough NY stage.
THEREFORE .... Again.... It is in Jeremy Lin's best interest to sign with another team and start anew.
Here's an article by Larry Coon, Special to ESPN.com http://lin-sanity.net/Lin-Sanity_News.html sub-titled 'Lin unlikely to slip through New York Knicks' hands in free agency this NBA offseason'
I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND the article entirely; I'm confused..... Can anyone let me know whether Lin is really *stuck* with the Knicks for at least one year (no maneuverable loophole out of it ?).
This team does not deserve to be in the playoffs if they play like this. They have almost abandoned using the pick and roll, and going to Carmelo and Amare post ups, Lin is now just a spectator camping out behind the 3-point line.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the Milwaukee Bucks, want it more. And they have no superstar $100 million contracts who demand the ball on each possession.
Correct.
DeleteFirst the statements by Woodson.... now the implementation - when he thinks the public uproar (over why punish Lin when he still has done well during the losing streak) have subsided or think many of the fans are not paying close attention or don't know better in the case of newbie fans.
Regardless, I think Lin will be in demand by some owners with good teams. They must know about all the drama in NY.
guys i'm not too worried. if woodson wants a job somewhere next year, he'll start playing lin to win games. woodson felt it's the raptors and maybe he can use this game as an excuse to win without lin and play up to the egos, but you can see that not possible. only lin can win games for the knicks.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLet's not go wild here, guys.
ReplyDeleteSometimes teams just get tired, mentally and physically. That is the nature of NBA basketball.
Jeremy Lin is essentially a rookie learning the NBA game. Some nights he just isn't going to have his spark, and he's going to have to learn to play through that.
I seriously doubt that Mike Woodson or the other Knicks are intentionally curtailing Lin. More likely, Lin just wasn't feeling it and that's why he couldn't produce tonight.
The Knicks are Lin's team. When he plays well, the Knicks win even if the other Knicks are playing poorly. When he plays poorly, the Knicks lose even if the other Knicks are playibg well.
i agree...one game. can't be 100% focused and intense every night. forget this one and move on!
DeleteThe same problems that haunted the Knicks before Woodson are coming up again. They aren't a good outside shooting team, the other team can go into a zone defense and shut them down inside. That's why Baron Davis and the bench did so well, because they CAN shoot from outside, and they DON'T rely on isolation post-ups.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Landry Fields should not be a starter. He has been bad for the Knicks starting lineup for a while, he's not hitting outside shots, struggling from the FT line and not playing much defense either.
The biggest problem of tonight's game was that the entire team, other than Novak, could not hit their outside jumpers. JLin 1-for-6, Carmelo 1-for-9, JR 2-for-8. Everyone except Novak, 0-for-19 on 3s. STAT was the only player who focused on scoring in the paint, as he took just one outside shot and missed.
ReplyDeletelet's remember this is one game, so not too get too riled up. off night for a lot of people...definitely missed jared jeffries too
ReplyDeleteone thing i hope for lin: sometimes when he struggles to score, he sometimes forces outside shots without running an offensive play or moving the ball. i'd prefer him to run some play first, and attempt a shot in the flow of the offense. if he wants to initiate himself, i'd rather him attack the basket.
raptors were hot no doubt, but knicks also missed quite a few shots that have been falling recently (especially from lin and smith).
all in all, i still don't think the last 5 games were a fluke. it's hard to keep 100% mental intensity every single night, so hopefully they can forget this one and move on.
go knicks!
We should not, but if the Knicks want to make the playoffs, then this was a MUST WIN.
DeleteYes, it was against a terrible team in the Raptors. But one thing about terrible teams ... is that they can still beat you don't come out with energy. And if they have players that are mismatches.
Nobody could stop Demar Derozan tonight, he was hitting all kinds of contested shots. Amare and Chandler had trouble containing Bargnagni, they made him look like Dirk Nowitzki.
The Knicks do struggle against teams that can shoot from outside. And the Raptors had everyone hitting at least one jumpshot.
It was not Lin's fault. In fact, they did not use him much at all in their offense. They used very few pick and roll plays. Lots of Iso ball with Melo and Amare.
I guess we got a firsthand look at Coach Woodson's new Lin-less system.
I just watched Woodson's post game. He said JLin wasn't able to play his game because Toronto was playing zone. Hence the reason JLin was off tonight.
ReplyDeleteBad loss but it was sort of inevitable, the winning can't go on forever. I think the zone Toronto played caught them off-guard, coupled with some tiredness and lack of energy and this is the result. Not the greatest timing with the struggle for the playoffs in full blast but that's the way the penny drops sometimes. The Knicks might have been complacent about facing the Raptors so this was good wake-up call. I doubt (hope!) they will be caught off-guard like this again.
ReplyDeleteI'm always up for a conspiracy theory but I don't think Woodson has it in for Lin. They have got to try out other line-ups and perhaps Woodson (wrongly) felt the Raptors was a good game to try and reintroduce Baron Davis. The result speaks for itself. JLin had an off night but i do hope Melo's shooting troubles are not contagious. If Lin and the Knicks play badly tomorrow, I might start to get concerned. Until then, this was just a bad game and everyone one has those every so often.
Stop making excuses for Jeremy! He needs to play and shoot the ball better period! Because unlike his star teammates, he did not have any resume to fall back to. He has to earn his playing time and play calls! Anyone who thinks that Woodson has the complete faith in Jeremy please think again. He had to do that because in the last several games, Baron Davis was injuried or totally stunk it up. That was why Jeremy got those opportunities before even he did not play well sometimes early in the game. Jeremy really has to play with more of an urgency that he has to compete for the playing time like he was still a bench player! Do not worry about him yet. I am sure this will make him a better player. Sooner than later, he will earn the trust of coach by his good play.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you expect him to do ? Go off shooting like Kobe Bryant ? Take every Knicks shot ?
DeleteHe was doing what the coach wants him to do. Set up Carmelo and Amare near the basket. That's his role now. They got the ball inside and couldn't convert.
I agree with ABC Baller. Jlin was doing what the Coach wanted him to, he was sticking to the new gameplan and it back fired on Woodson's face. Like I've been saying along Woodson doesn't like Jlin, he's just putting up a front to please his boss.
DeleteSigh! From an outside perspective, Knicks sure are an exasperating team, a bit like supporting Arsenal FC these last few years. Just when you think they have achieved the mental toughness to go on a long winning run and be a championship team, they just go collapsing on you.
ReplyDeleteThey need to slog out those ugly wins against the lower teams if they are to become successful.
Inexperience, not enough team chemistry. The good teams that win most of the time .... they have experienced veterans, good leaders, good coaches, etc. It's like they know where their teammates are at all times, and can predict what they are going to do.
ReplyDeleteKnicks are playing like a newly formed team. Nobody really knows one another or what they are going do. So then each player then has to score on their own. Which is hard against a good defense.
Anybody here have any theories as to why Baron Davis was on the court instead of Lin during important stretches of the game ?
ReplyDeleteWhy was he getting into the paint more than Lin while he was on the floor ?
It seems like Coach Woodson came into this game with a set strategy, and did not make any adjustments throughout the game.
JLin should really try to get out of New York this off-season.
ReplyDeleteThis team is dysfunctional from the greedy owner down to the team with its egocentric "superstars."
To hell with New York.
it's too early to give up New York. this team hasn't been together for very long. they have just found a core in Lin - Stat - Melo - Fields - Chandler that works well and is getting better. this is a team that can make a good amount of noise in the eastern conference. it's way better for lin to play on a contender than be the leading scorer on a team that is gong no where like the golden state. it pains me to say this because i love the warriors and wish they would get better but it's true. starting PG positions on serious contending teams are few and far between. this team will be back next year and will be even better. just have patience.
DeleteLOL.
DeleteYeah, I believe that Amare and Melo are going to magically continue to give effort on defense over the course of a season--even though they have never done that for any sustained period over their entire NBA careers.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
Yeah... not sure it's going to happen but they have shown signs they are willing.
DeleteI'm just trying to be optimistic here. There is a very good chance that Lin is going to be on the Knicks for the foreseeable future. They can match any offer next year and there are plenty of reasons for him to stay in NY. The Melo - Stat - Chandler core isn't going anywhere so this is the team he's got to work with. Personally I think it's a better situation than Golden State or Houston.
Folks, the sky is not falling...one bad game out of the last six that they didn't win? Even the mighty Bulls and the Heat lose games that they should have won. I thought Toronto played a very energetic game. They were hustling and were making contested shots one after another. It seemed like it was there night.
ReplyDeleteWoodson could have put the ball in Lins hands again right at the start of the 4th, but somehow JR Smith ended up with the ball, and he kept throwing it up early in the shot clock.
The Knicks and Jeremy didn't have it today. Onto to the next game -- another win. :)
a
ReplyDeleteoops sorry for the weird post. i'm having trouble with my openID. anyways... just wanted to say stop freaking out guys. we all want jeremy to succeed and he will but this is the NBA. games like this happen. even bad teams are full of great players that can put together a good game one night. lin is going to have some bad games. have patience and don't freak out and don't start all of these crazy conspiracy theories. makes us lin fans sound hysterical and crazy. which we are...
ReplyDeleteand if you still can't calm yourself down watch some of his better games in HD here: http://www.youtube.com/user/geraldd39?feature=watch
ReplyDeleteyou'll feel better.
I said it before once Baron got healthy again there would be problems. Somehow it did look like it bothered Jeremy be it minutes or confidence. The GM and coach should really make it clear to Baron that no matter how well you play you will not start or play in crunch time instead of Lin. ust like in Chicago no matter how well John Lucas plays in Derrick Rose's absence he still is forever a back up to Rose.
ReplyDeletewoodson has made it clear that Lin is the starter and will be moving forward. tonight davis was able to get some penetration and key a run with the second unit so he got to stay in the game a little longer. nothing to get too worked up about... it's not a trend yet.
DeleteI don't believe what Woodson is saying. I trull believe they're out to get Lin off the starting 5 and get Davis into the starting 5.
DeleteWoodson is going to limit Jlin's minutes probably 20mins a game.
But I quite hate that Baron is allowed to pick and roll and penerate but Lin's main job is to bring the ball up court and pass around the perimeter and be a spot up shooter...
ReplyDeleteIt's not that Baron is "allowed" to pick and roll and penetrate and Lin isn't. It's just that tonight Lin wasn't aggressive at attacking the zone and thus wasn't as successful as Baron in getting to the rim. But he'll learn the team will learn and it won't be as successful next time. The knicks are not the best jump shooting team and they fell into the trap of shooting jumpers around the perimeter of the zone instead of attacking. Tonight Casey came up with a great game plan and the zone slowed the knicks down and when they started settling and missing jumpers the whole thing fell apart. They got frustrated and didn't have any kind of rhythm.
DeleteLook, Jeremy can't be the savior every night. It's very easy to remember thes is essentially his rookie year as a starter and in a condensed season, that's bound to have an effect on some of his games. Dude is not a machine. In fact, this is when his superstar teammates, who have been doing this a lot longer than he has and who are getting paid big bucks for their talent, should be stepping up and taking over the games. Except it seems if Jeremy has a bad day, the Knicks have a bad day. There's no doubting that when he's off the court, play is stagnant and they can't seem to claw themselves back into the game. He's the PG, I get it but the Bulls are able to cope without DRose. Why can't the Knicks cope without their rookie PG? I'm starting to resent that a good deal of the responsibility falls with Lin and he gets very little help from his seasoned teammates.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, it's not an unusual for an entire team to be off. It's just starting to feel like Jeremy needs to be on all the time to pull this team through games and that's not fair on any level.
I agree we that us rabid Lin fans need to have patience. There are going to be plenty of bad games in his career. This Knicks team is also very young. It's as young as Lin's starts. There is a lot of potential with this team but they are going to need time to figure it out. They still don't have an identity and the roles haven't been defined clearly. It's unfair to compare the Knicks to the Bulls right now. The Bulls core has been together since 2008. They have a clear identity, have pieces that work together well and unbelievable team chemistry. The Knicks are not even close to being on the same level as a team. Individually there might be more talent on the Knicks but the Bulls are a far superior team at the moment. Before Linsanity the Knicks were still trying to figure out how to have Amare and Melo be effective together. With Lin I think it is pretty clear that they have a team that can compete very well in the East for the foreseeable future but it's not going to happen overnight. The glimpses of what the knicks can be have been very tantalizing but it's just going to take a little time. Hopefully they'll get the time but given the history of the Knicks management anything is possible!
DeleteI understand this is a Jeremy Lin fan site and we are all fans here, but some objectivity is needed here. Even Jeremy has mentioned that his mates have bailed him out when he was playing badly. And the bench team has more than once pulled the starters out of trouble. So we've got to give them credit when the team wins. Jeremy is not Superman.
DeleteSo the argument that Knicks only play well only when Jeremy is playing well is a bit too far fetched in my opinion.
No, Jeremy Lin has to play well for the Knicks to win.
DeleteIf you look at the statistics before and after Lin was promoted to the rotation, the Knicks are better in most categories with Lin in the lineup. That includes the win loss record.
The Knicks depend on Lin to spearhead their efforts on both ends. He is the "glue guy" that makes the Knicks a real team.
When Lin plays poorly, it has a ripple effect on the rest of the team. Guys shoot and defend poorly because everybody depends on Lin as the leader. When Lin sits, there is a dramatic dropoff in play.
Mike Woodson can bench Lin out of the NBA if he wants, but that would destroy his team. Similarly, the teammates that have issue with Lin would find themselves losing a lot of games that they should've won. Several times Lin has had to save he Knicks in the 4th quarter.
Lin has all of this figured out pretty good. He coasts for the 1st 3 quarters, thus allowing his teammates to win the game if they can. When the 4th quarter hits, Lin takes over because the teammates look to him to win the game. This is what Michael Jordan did once he had enough help around him to win championships.
The Knicks will go as far as Lin can lead them. However, I've been saying for weeks that the Knicks need a starting caliber SG so that guys like DeRozan don't go for 30.
The best thing would be to start Shumpert or JR Smith at the SG position since they are better defenders. But their shooting has been terrible lately. Landry Fields has a higher basketball IQ and knows how to make off-the-ball cuts to the basket.
DeleteSo right now, Knicks are stuck with Landry Fields as starting Shooting guard who can't shoot.
Fields is a very good defender. Shumpert is a better on the ball defender but Fields D is solid. Smith can play D when he wants but his bball IQ is too low and would be completely frustrating as a starter. Fields makes good decisions consistently. I'd much rather stick with Fields in the starting line up.
DeleteI didnt get to watch the game. Lin did mention that this is the first time he's seen a zone defense played against them. for some reason nba teams have some of the worst games when playing against a zone. I know the lakers have a tough time with it, especially when it's a team with a zone and a penetrating guard. They have some miserable games against it. The way to beat a zone is to attack the middle seams. Sounds to me that should be lin's specialty. Overtime lin will get it, but it better be quick, cuz more teams will be using it now. Bring it on, accelerated learning at its best. Woodson should play lin more in this game, cuz he is best fit to beat the zone. However, he might be giving his second unit more time to prepare them for the playoffs. Jury is still out. We'll see
ReplyDeleteSo is isn't it the Coach's job to figure out how to break a zone defense ? Or does that job fall to the 2nd year PG who has only started 20 games ?
DeleteBoth.
DeleteDon't worry. The Knicks were just tired. When a team is tired, nothing works right.
NBA coaches and players have an unspoken rule that fatigue is not to be acknowledged as a reason for defeat. It's a macho thing, just like nobody will ever admit that they got stopped defensively.
It is up to the coach to prep the whole team on how to play and attack a zone defense. It was something unexpected so they probably didnt prepare for it. Like anything you need repetitions to get it right. However, lin has a headups on the other guys since he just came out of college where they played mostly zone d.
ReplyDeleteWoodson's a good coach, but not a great one. He's not championship caliber. A great coach makes adjustments during the course of the game and especially half time. It's inexcusable the offense was so stagnate and it was the wrong move to keep Baron in so long. Woodson said the following after the post-game that "it was bad coaching..". He was right about that one. I still think he prefers to go with Baron which is unfortunate.
ReplyDeleteIn a nut shell: The Knicks missed lots of shots and the Raptors made more shots. Lin had No free throw attempts meaning he rarely went hard to the basket.
ReplyDelete