Thursday, January 26, 2012

Knicks @ Heat

The Knicks start a back to back Friday at Miami on ESPN (5pm PST) and then play the Rockets in Houston. Baron looks iffy for the weekend. If he's still out, it would assure JLin suiting up and having a chance to play.

46 comments:

  1. Looks like Lin going back to the Dleague, at least we get to watch him.

    http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120126/BASKETBALL05/301269921/Knicks-coach-likes-partnership-with-BayHawks&template=mobile

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    1. Not really sure this explicitly states Lin is being sent back to the D-League. Isn't it only stating that D'Antoni isn't going to have any hesistation sending him down? Does anyone have another link saying Lin is on assignment for the second time?

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    2. The article just saying that Lin is not part of D'antonio game plan and that he will send him down again soon. I'm guessing it would be after the Knicks road game is over and if no one get hurt.

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  2. the numbers are skewed cuz of the limited minutes lin gets, but i checked out his stats and his PER is easily tops on the knicks. at least he's making the best of his opportunities on the court.

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  3. Lin reminds me of Lebron a little bit.

    I am not saying that Lin is as good as Lebron. What I am saying is that Lin is like a mini Lebron in the way he plays the game in athletic attack mode. Both are excellent producers who have tremendous athleticism for their respective positions. Of course, the main difference is that Lebron is one of the best players in the NBA and Lin is one of the best players in the NBADL.

    Actually, a guy who I feel would be a good blueprint for Lin is another ex Knicks point guard who has been compared to Lebron. That would be Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson who is about the same size and atgleticism as Lin. Sugar was an attacking big point guard who won lots of games for his team the way Lin does. The main difference between Sugar and Lin is that Sugar had a nasty spin dribble when he wasn't strung out on drugs. Both Lin and Sugar were small school superstars who rebounded like big men, defended fiercely, made jaw dropping assists out of nowhere, and scored in bunches mainly by attacking the basket. The two players do not look the same physically, but I see lots of similarities in their games.

    Sugar seems to have straightened out his life (mostly) and has become a winning coach at the minor league level. I feel that Sugar would be an ideal pro coach for Jeremy Lin.

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    1. Crazy talk... 1) Lin does not play like Lebron, at all. 2) I wish people would stop comparing him to future Hall of Famers (On this board I've heard Derrick Rose, Steve Nash, and now Lebron James). It is silly and honestly discredits anything reasonable you might have to say after that. 3) I think everybody on this blog hopes Lin does well, but comparisons like this just makes us all look crazy. Please stop.

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    2. I won't stop.

      Unlike you, I feel that Lin is a legitimate NBA player. There is nothing wrong in claiming that his game RESEMBLES that of other legitimate players. I did not say Lin is as good as Lebron James. All I said is that Lin tries to do some of the same things James seems to do.

      I don't see the on court resemblance to Steve Nash. Nash is strictly a small point guard who is one of the NBA's all time best playmakers. Nash is not noted for his rebounding, steals, or defense.

      Nor do I see the resemblance to Derrick Rose. Rose is primarily a scorer who gets the ball fed fo him for shots. Rose is not noted for being anything other a great scorer and decent passer.

      The real problem is that a lot of people do not consider Lin a legit NBA player. Therefore any comparison of his game to that of established players is met by hatred and hostility. Nobody can and will convince me that Lin does not belong in an NBA discussion.

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    3. You don't want me to compare, cchen?

      Well, I have some REAL comparisons for you:

      Jeremy Lin might be the best guard on the Knicks. Playing guys like Bibby and soon Davis is a big mistake because Lin is BETTER than those two former All Stars that you feel are players too good to be compared to Lin.

      Lin would be better playing with and behind Steve Nash than any sorry guard on their roster would be. That includes 5 time All Star and Olympian Michael Redd who is another player you feel is too good for Lin to be compared to. Lin is also way better than the guy he compared himself to, Goran Dragic.

      I do not hesitate to prefer Lin over any player who is not producing as well as he does. I also will not state that Lin is at the level that Nash and Rose and James ate, though I unwaveringly believe that Lin could become an All Star if somebody was smart enough to look past his ethnicity and play him real minutes.

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    4. Ok If you went into a bar and started comparing Jon Leuer with Blake Griffith, Kevin Love and Tim Duncan. People would laugh you out of the bar. Does that mean Leuer doesn't belong? I didn't say that... I think it makes you appear fanatical beyond reason.

      In abstract you may be correct but its meaningless. I can name hundreds of high school players' game that resemble Kobe Bryant. But the presumption when you make a comparison is performance. You do specifically address this but I found the comparison even in style ludicrous. If you really must compare try making comparisons that are realistic, like Steve Blake or Mike Conley.

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    5. @ cchen, you forgot Jason Kidd.

      and KHuang thinks Jeremy Lin has NBA elite athleticism.

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    6. I'm honestly not hating. I hope he becomes an all-star/hall of famer. I really do. And I don't think Goran Dragic is a terrible comparison. At least he gets 20 min and 7 pts a game. When Lin gets 20 min a game (I think eventually he will) we can revisit ok?

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    7. Believe it or not, I am OK with everything you said.
      I feel that Jeremy Lin deserves 20 minutes a game right now, just based on what he has done. Nor do I see Jeremy Lin playing poorly in those 20 minutes if he gets the chance.
      I will not criticize Lin for not playing well enough to deserve more minutes, at least not on this Knicks team that I feel should be playing him.

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    8. @KHuang - An attack on you, ISN'T an attack on JLin. You're just outrageous, in the same mold as Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh - saying stupid, uneducated things to get a stir out of people. And it's working! I agree with @cchen - you make every JLin fan on this board seem crazy. You obviously have NEVER played competitive basketball on a team that practices, because while there ARE favorites, people get playing time when they do well in practice. If JLin were lighting up Bibby every single time they practice (which admittedly, they don't practice much because of the shortened season) he would get playing time.

      Hey Everybody, the best thing we can do is just ignore KHuang's ridiculous statements. Everyone else, GO Jeremy Lin!!! My favorite player in the NBA!!!

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    9. Even if Lin gets waived and never plays pro basketball again, I will still think of him as a true NBA player.

      There are many players rated higher than Lin who have not matched his production even in limited minutes. Lots of people here like hugh and SVB insist that Lin does not belong in the NBA because of that. They choose to disregard the stats and insist that Bibbyand Douglas are better than Lin. All they see in Lin is a guy who is racking up DNPs and thus cannot be good enough to play in the NBA.

      I look at Lin's stats and watch him play. I see an extremely productive player who deserves more minutes than he's been getting. I cannot predict if teams will let him play more. I firmly believe that there are lottery picls and ex All stars who have not played as well as Lin, and I feel Lin would outperform those guys if given a chance.

      It is hard for people to look at Lin and imagine that he is a real NBA player, especially if he has a bad game every now and then. What I dislike is that those same people watch players who play much worse than Lin and still insist that Lin cannot be better than thoss players he is outproducing.

      In "Moneyball", real life GM Billy Beane understood that perfodmance and appearance don't necessarily correlate. Stats alone are never enough to prove that a guy can play, but stats often reveal that guys that assume Lin cannot possibly excel in big NBA minutes might not just be wrong but DEAD wrong. As far as I am concerned, Lin is a money player even if he never gets a real NBA chance.

      Lin is the best NBA example of how the "Moneyball" process works.

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  4. Baron Davis is done. It's funny how people judge players on their past alone. In our minds, we imagine the Baron Davis of old, where he was dominating and young but that is far from the case here. The reality is that these players are humans too and not superman. If you threw out your back at work, I doubt you will ever be the same as before. Even more so with the NBA, how can an old guy with an injured back compete with a fresh, young, more energetic player? Obviously this is an entertainment business, which is why we still see players like Bibby, KG, Shaq in the league... its for their name recognition, not their current skills.

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  5. From: HowardBeckNYT Twitter:
    - Carmelo taking next two games off to rest his injuries, D'Antoni says. Could return tues.
    - No Baron this weekend either.

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  6. Agree with you Nemo - Baron's conditioning was already suspect even before the back injury. Coming off of months of not playing will expose his inability to defend younger and faster point guards.

    Can you seriously imagine Baron Davis trying to defend a Ty Lawson-type player? Would he really do better against Isaiah Thomas than Lin did?

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    1. Exactly. Even a player like Isiah Thomas was in the same situation as Jeremy Lin a year back... hungry, young, unproven. He had something to prove when going up against Jeremy that night, and he was effective indeed. That burst of energy that we see isn't in players like Bibby, Baron Davis anymore. They are purely just "well known" players who had a great past and continue playing due to to marketability and experience playing in the NBA flow. As said time and time again, this is a business. If Jeremy keeps busting his butt and keeps networking within the NBA community, he will definitely be given more chances.

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  8. TMZ: Who is the Best Asian-American/Asian athlete?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIvTcCfRStw

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  9. "the numbers are skewed cuz of the limited minutes lin gets, but i checked out his stats and his PER is easily tops on the knicks."

    Forget about the Knicks, Lin is currently 1st in the NBA for all PGs in PER at 31.3, and 5th in the entire NBA. Like you said, it's skewed because of limited minutes, but there's plenty of other NBA players with limited minutes who haven't performed as well.

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    1. like i said, he's making the most of his limited opportunities. just don't understand why the coach won't take a chance and play him more. their season can't get much worse...

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  10. Here's the link comparing his PER with the rest of the Knicks.

    Guess who's last?

    http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/cat/PER/new-york-knicks

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  11. So sad looking at the stats. D'Antoni is just playing favor, that is why the have a loosing record. I wish i can rub my blackness on his yellow skin so he can get some playing time. Go heat crush the kkknicks we want to watch the yellow kid play.

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  12. Wow! Stats do not lie...now just play the top 5-7 players and the Knicks will have a new team! Play off bound, problems solved. Will someone send the stats to D'Antoni or the Knicks management. :)

    I'd follow the stats if I were coach. :)

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  13. "Toney Douglas is starting with Shumpert, Fields, Amar'e and Chandler tonight for thr #knicks" Twitted by Al_Iannazzone.
    I guess D'Antony will live or die, most likely, by Toney Douglas. Wow does D'Antony starting to look like Keith Smart.

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  14. To sum it up, D'Antoni is BLIND. What I wish is JLin goes through trial, grows strong, finds a better team and a better coach (or the team and the coach find him), and is able to shine eventually!

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  15. I called it. DNP. Goodnight everyone.. I got better things to do.

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  16. if lin ever gets to play with chandler he should milk the lob plays like chris paul did in new orleans. he'll need to watch some of those old videos and get the lob city going for new york

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  17. also, if he ever gets to play real minutes with the starters, he should avoid the iso players like melo and amare. they will dribble his nice passes into iso black hole. he won't get any assists with those knuckleheads

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  18. Poor Steve Novak. He gets playing time, but gets no open looks because the PG can't create a shot for him. I think Lin could have helped him out a lot.

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  19. I was heavily criticized on this thread for daring to insinuate that Jeremy Lin could be a terrific NBA player with All Star potential.

    Then real-dsb posts that Lin is #1 PER among point guards and #5 of all NBA players. I would have thought that ALL STARS produced like that, not undrafted rookies who are sent down to the D league because nobody thinks they can play.

    Small sample aside, those are still incredible numbers. They back up my seemingly outlandish claims that Lin might be an All Star. At the least, Lin is definitely comparable to Lebron in just PER. My sense is that Lin needs to play more NOW, at least from a numbers standpoint.

    I don't care what people think of me, but I care very much that people assume that Lin cannot play as well as guys like Steve Blake or Mike Conley or Goran Dragic when the numbers and on court play suggest that maybe those guys actually cannot play as well as Lin!

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    1. First of all, everyone agrees that Lin's PER is incredible, yet to say it supports your claims Lin should be an all star or should have been a lottery pick is ridiculous. Extrapolation of data is only significant when it's performed against repeated performances. If we take the first 20 minutes of Toney Douglas's game tonight, and extrapolate his statistics, it would indicate he's somewhat of a good point guard. You can't assume the 20 minutes Lin's played is going to translate directly against other all star players, such as Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul (Each of them being part of 1st team all defense). Let's be honest, if Lin had trouble against Isiah Thomas, how do you think he'll fair against the Rajon Rondo's and Chris Paul's of this league? Give me legitimate statistics Lin's put up against all defense players, and then I'll consider voting him an all star.

      Everyone on this site wants Lin to succeed, but to constantly depict Lin as a victim of his race and prejudice is ridiculous. If Lin's not getting playing time, theres no point whining about it. Rather he has to use it as motivation to work, work and work to where he wants to be.

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    2. I am not claiming that Lin "should" be an All Star. Those are you words, not mine. Besides, lots of guys have "All Star Potential". Actually becoming an All Star is controlled by a variety of factors, ability being only one of them. There are nights when utter scrubs dominate NBA courts and when Hall of Famers play terrible (Melo scoring 1 point due to injury). My guess is that Lin will never see enough real minutes to be anything more than a 11th man type of player.

      I never "assumed" that Lin would excel in 20 minutes against rotation NBA players. Those are your words, not mine. From what I am seeing on the court and stats, I would believe that Lin's overall stats and ratings would likely drop. I still think he deserves a 20 minute, based on what he has already done. What I will definitely "assume" is that the Knicks cannot lose any more with Lin playing than they already are by not playing him. And even if Lin played well, that does not guarantee that everybody would see it that way.

      What I do know is that Lin has dominated in the opportunities he has been given. Predicting what he does at the "next level" is a crapshoot. What I am really saying is that I am not automatically assuming that Lin cannot possibly play at that next level if given the chance. My hunch is that he'll be a good 10 or 20 min player even against top competition, so PLAY HIM and see.

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  20. The only way JL gets real playing time is if Baron Davis comes back and struggles or reinjures himself.

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  21. with more playing time, lin can certainly become better than those guys. but he has made the most of what has been given, and improving each day. i believe that if lin receives more actual playing time, and if he continues to show improvements as a pure point guard, he will be a very valuable player in the nba. but if coaches keep denying him minutes, then we may never have a chance to say that he is better than those guys as his talents may waste away on the bench.

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  23. Alright guys - something I thought about tonight that might make sense why Jeremy Lin isn't playing (it's been mentioned here briefly but also on NEw YOrk Knicks boards).

    #1 - The Knicks have some decent players (Chandler, Carmelo, Amare and Baron). With that talent, the Knicks should be competitive and be a playoff team. However, they are underperforming a bit. If they don't do well, the coach will get fired and maybe even the GM.

    Since they are underperforming, the coach will naturally default to the players he knows best. Think about Keith Smart with the Warriors last season.

    #2 - Hoping that Jeremy would play tonight was a little unrealistic. The Knicks, like most middle to lower tier teams actually will play BETTER against the top teams (remember, the Warriors beat Chicago and Miami but have lost to some weaker teams). The reason is that most teams will step up their games against top competition.

    It's almost better for the Knicks to play a team like the Warriors who are about the same level or weaker. For whatever reason, lower level teams sometimes just don't have focus against teams like them and thus Jeremy might get a better opportunity.

    In a sense, Jeremy's choice to NOT join the Mavericks may have been a mistake. He might not have played in the NBA right away but he would have gotten coaching and consistent playing time in the D-League to develop. Plus, he would have been with a good organization that is winning.

    If Jeremy had a choice again, he'd probably chose the Mavericks assuming everything went as planned (e.g., he plays in D-League, develops and slowly works into the Mavs rotation).

    But no point in hashing over the past. Jeremy will have to deal with cards he's been dealt and make the best of it.

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    1. the mavs already got a chinaman on their roster, already met their quota for the year.

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  24. @DCL points are well taken. Perhaps the best thing that can happen now is that the Knicks send him to the D-League, keeping him under contract for insurance. He'd then get a lot of P/T to develop his game. Next year, he would be a free agent with marketable skills. One concern is that it's a very rough league and the risk of injury is high. I guess we'll know soon since Feb. 10 is approaching.

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  25. After watching most of last night's game, there is no way that Mike Bibby should be playing ahead of Jlin. Bibby can't defend and he can't penetrate. His offense is jacking up threes. And I'm one hundred percent certain that when Baron shows up, it will be more of the same. All I saw was the ball being passed around the perimeter until the clock ran out and then another three.

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  26. Not only is Jeremy Lin currently #1 among all NBA point guards in PER and 5th in PER in the entire NBA, but last year on GS he had the best PER on the team, 2nd in plus/minus, and also led all NBA guards in steals per game and blocks per game.

    What else does he have to do? Triple double in D-League, and dominate it last yr? Check. Outplay 1st rounders John Wall, Kemba Walker, and Reggie Jackson? Check. Lead your NBA team in all relevant advanced metrics? Check.

    I can't wait until Jeremy Lin has a 25 min+ breakout game in winning a close NBA game, and then everyone acts like he came out of nowhere, when the reality is he's been playing well but simply isn't being given the chance due to his racial markers.

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    1. Get a skin transplant to become black. If Michael Jackson can change his skin white, then JLin can change his skin black. LOL!

      http://www.dopewar.com

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  27. "With that talent, the Knicks should be competitive and be a playoff team. However, they are underperforming a bit. If they don't do well, the coach will get fired and maybe even the GM. The coach will naturally default to the players he knows best. Think about Keith Smart with the Warriors last season."

    Arg, don't remind me... this is all too similar to last season. You would think that if a team is underperforming, the coach would try something different, but nope, they just cling to what they're familiar with and ride it to the end.

    I really want Lin to end up in Dallas' system. They only have 2 PGs on their roster. Kidd's on the decline due to age, he's only averaging 5.1 ast/gm this year! If Lin were in Dallas' D League affiliate, he could be called up when Kidd goes down with injury. Beaubois' not much of a PG either, I think Lin could beat him out eventually too.

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  28. Is JLin's agent doing anything for him at this point? Or he just goes with flow?

    D'Antoni is not only blind but also deaf. I don't see JLin have any opportunity to develop except some garbage time at the coach's mercy.

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