However, he was basically responsible for the huge deficit Warriors gave up in first half (he was -14 in about 5 minutes of playing time, and Louis Williams was blowing by him at will).
IIRC, Warriors were down by 1 when Law entered the game, so they must have been down by 15 when he left 5 minutes later.
don't care. anyone can do well every once in 10 games. doesn't mean anything. problem is, he gets too many chances when he obviously has no upside. same thing goes with smart. his coaching has been horrible. if he wins the next game, some people would say he is "getting it now" or whatever. no, they suck and always will be no matter what. some may say i'm being biased here. but this is being realistic. lin has been playing very well but people are going to watch carefully at his mistakes. it's ridiculous.
Why do people keep thinking that the key to the Warriors success is to have better scorers off the bench (which I'm assumming is why they got Thornton)? The Warriors are 7th in the NBA in scoring, and 28th (3rd to last) in points allowed. It shouldn't be hard to figure out that the Warriors need to improve their defense first and foremost.
Agreed. If you put any player under a microscope, even an all-star, you'll find tons of mistakes they make every game: couldn't get through a pick, their man blows by them, made a bad pass, missed a crucial free throw down the stretch, etc.
Monta had 6 turnovers today, only 2 assists, missed 5/7 3 ptrs, and a -11 +/-. But media and most fans will just look at his 27 points and say he had a great game.
"Warriors coach Keith Smart was heard screaming at his team in the locker room." - from AP game recap
While some of the blame belongs to the players, a lot of it is on the coach too, for his coaching, game planning, rotations, etc.
"Meanwhile Acie Law ends up with a -16 +/-."
That's pretty impressive to do in 18 mins. That will drop his team worst +/- even more.
instead of posting here... many of you who have made unbiased and substantial points should email Joe Lacob, i doubt he will ever read it or see it, but if enough emails gets piled up about how frustrated fans are with acie law and keith smart... there might be a chance he will step in and do something... who knows? (chances are, nothing will change until next season)
key arguments could be... law's team worst +/-... his lack of "upside"... his flawed defense... he probably won't be back with the team next year, why not see what you have with Lin... etc etc etc
NOTICE *** For those in the Bay Area: Can someone please bring a sign to the game that says, "Fire Smart, and Bring in the Musselmen!" or something to that nature? :) That would be awesome to see if they show it on TV. :)
Just reading the comments above, I take that Dumbo screwed things over again tonight. No amount of screaming or weeping at the team is going to change the fact that he STINKS as a NBA coach. How frustrating for JLin and the Warriors...goodness gracious! Just tell us the good news when he is gone.
the problem is lacob likes lin so he won't be going anywhere. and lacob can't fire dumbo until the end of the season or else it would look bad. he doesn't want to risk alienating potential coaches/players. there's no point emailing lacob either, he knows stats and lin more than any of us here. just wait til next season. expect monta and smart to be gone and law to either get limited minutes or waived. rowell and riley may still be around though, but it won't be a problem because by next season, lacob will be pulling their strings.
Lacob will only be pulling his strings if there is a season. Lacob did say he will most likely pick up Lin's contract. And I don't think Lin minds too much about sitting on the bench, at least he hasn't voiced his opinion. He's getting paid. I just hope that he is developing with the team somehow. Would love to see Lin and Adrian play though. I am glad Smart finally got Lou back into the mix. Now if he can eliminate Law, I would be happy with how he is running things for at least this season.
from the boston game... There was a Harvard group at TD Garden on Friday night, hoping to see inactive Warriors rookie guard Jeremy Lin play. "I remember my first game back in New Orleans," coach Smart said. "A lot of people paid to watch me sit on the bench."
heh, sounds a lil like smart tryna make jeremy suffer in the same way he did. unfair + uncool
Expect big changes for the GSWs. Lacob considered trading ball hogs Curry and Ellis. I think he wants a center. How about Ellis and Curry for LA's Andrew Bynum?
The warriors don't need to trade Ellis and Curry, they are providing the offense. What they need is to let JLin play to provide the defense and transitions they need. Look at the stats against the Philli team. GSW 39 RB vs 76ers 53, GSW 19 Assists vs 76ers 32, 9 steals vs 14 steals. See the point? Look at Acie Law's stats - 17:38mins, 3-8fg, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 PF, 1 BA but NO TO, -16. The stats might not show for JLin but watch him play and you'll see the score change very quickly but with Law its either stay the same or lose even more. I'm just saying. But at this point, I just want to see GSW drop below the Clippers so Smart will be gone.
It is simply not accurate to say that the +/- stat favors Jeremy Lin. The +/- stat is not really conceived as a single-player stat. It is more meaningful as a multi-player stat. For full reference, please refer to the nba.com pages for the autotrader.com +/- stat. (quote: "The AutoTrader.com +/- stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court)
As a team stat, it shows the following: * radmanovic/wright/ellis/curry/lee have the best warriors +/- at +48 * the best Acie Law combo is radmanovic/lee/ ellis/admunsen/law at +11 * the best Lin combos are lee/carney/wright/curry/lin at +9 and radmanovic/ellis/williams/udoh/lin at +8
Thus, any analysis of Law versus Lin +/- really has no basis to support Lin.
Thanks to reality-now for the link. It was very informative, although I confess I'm not a "stat man," there were some interesting points: 1) Acie's +11 group has a +/- per minute of 1.271 2) Lin's + 9 group has a +/- per minute of 2.368 3) Actually the best group was Rad, Ellis, BWright, Udoh and Lin with a per minute average at 3.495 4) Probably none of the combinations above are statistically valid because they didn't occur very often. 5) As a single player stat, AutoTrader says Lin is 3rd best on the team and Law is 13th. 6) For 2 player combinations, Lin's best showing is 6th partnering with Udoh. In the 50 top two player combinations, Lin's name appears 10 times. Acie appears only once, at number 19, in the top 50 two player combinations. His partner? Jeremy Lin! 7) For 3 player combinations, the best +/- per minute average occurs when Rad, Udoh, and Lin are together, or Lin, Udoh and DWright. 8) For 4 player combinations, once again Lin is in the group with the best +/- per minute. Using reality-now's methodology, Lin would be rated higher than Law, but I'm willing to call the matter moot. 10) The site only analyzes the top 50 combinations. It would be interesting to see what the worst combinations are.
At any rate, anyone who wants to rate Acie Law over Lin is fine with me. The AutoTrader Site is very interesting. I recommend it to all. It gives a good idea of how reality-now's mind works.
@reality-now: You are absolutely right. The +/- is best read as a team stat, and the autotrader.com section is a great link.
However, you are like the anti-realdsb. You try to pick the configuration of stats that are not favorable to Lin.
Using a straight highest +/- for a combo is like comparing starters to bench players by total points scored. That is, the more minutes you get usually means the more points you get (unless your name is Andris Biedrins). So the top combo is +48 but they also have, by far, the highest # of minutes together at 131.
Now if you took the +/- per minute to normalize it, that group drops to 3rd to the bottom (out of the top 25) at 0.364. Whereas, guess whose group jumps to the top? Lin/Curry/Carney/BWright/Lee at 2.6!!!
Now of course, this group only had 3+ minutes together so it isn't a very accurate picture. But if you drop it to a 3-man group, who is at the top again? Lin/Udoh/Rad at 0.884 with 31 minutes and Lin/Udoh/Wright at 1.002 with 12 minutes.
I still think the sample size is a little small. But it is certainly an indicator of effectiveness. And from watching Lin's last few appearances, I am not that surprised.
That was hilarious to watch reality-now try to use a "total" stat to force a conclusion rather than a "rate" (per game, per min, etc).
He thinks Karl Malone was a better scorer than Jordan since Malone had more total points in their careers. He thinks Don Nelson's the greatest coach of all time because he has the most wins.
Usually I give him a "nice try", but I can't this time. Utter fail.
What can be simpler in name than 'the +/- stat'? It is a single number and nothing more. It has been used in this site repeatedly as a single number to hound Acie Law and favor Lin. But now that I have disarmed any such arguments, it turns out that we need to look at this stat 'as a rate'. Completely laughable.
Reality-Now - try to keep some dignity... I actually like your posts as a counter-point to the fandom (myself included). Sometimes it's just better to call it a day on a losing argument and come up with something fresh.
lmao! since when has reality-now ever made a valid point? "counter-point to the fandom".. really? some of you guys give trolls like reality-now way too much credit and the fans here too little. you act like fans here are totally biased. and when this reality-now character (or any other new name) comes around throwing out some random negative bs about lin then it makes them some kind of savior from the fandom. sheesh. i've never seen a site where trolling is so easy and effective. gullible people. well, you may be happy to hear that i won't be visiting this place anymore. tired of supporting lin against trolls AND his own fans. hopefully lin gains the respect he deserves and get some playing time but i seriously doubt it so it's a good time to take a break from it all. good luck to JLinfan#1 and this site. thanks for supporting lin. and keep it real, real-dsb. the rest of you can suck my **** lol
I am not a troll anonymous. I have been posting as Steve and SKL since the very beginning of the season rather than anonymously. I've watched Jeremy live and even drove up to Reno to catch him and I live in NY. I am a fan but don't need everyone to tell me all the time how much he/she agrees with me. I visit this blog all the time given the paucity of news and actual appearance by Jeremy during recent games.
Don't waste your breath with anon. He has a little growing up to do. And even though he claims he won't be visiting here anymore, I think we all know that isn't a promise. Ha ha.
I think it is awesome you drove up to Reno to catch one of his games. I wish I had had the time to do so. Inexpensive seats and a lot of playing time for Lin. Win-win.
LOL, Anon is just a passionate and emotional fan. A few weeks ago, after Lin was inactive, he swore off watching the Warriors for the rest of the season. The next game, he was back on the forum commenting about the game. See you soon, anon! =)
Law hasn't stayed in front of his man once.
ReplyDeleteDo you think he can do it, at least once, in the 10 - 15 minutes Dumbo gives him?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, Law gets beat by Williams, easily, and forces Biedrens to foul for Law's inability to stay in front of his man at NBA level.
ReplyDeleteLatvia is calling!
i like how jeff adrien got called up from d-league and never played a game thanks to Smart. Thorton just got signed and he is playing already.
ReplyDeleteLOL, Radmanovic has already done what Law can't do, actually stay in front of Lou Williams.
ReplyDelete:)
Jeremy is the only bench player that hasn't gone in the game yet...hmmm i wonder why
ReplyDeleteThorton had a good Q2, but never got into the game again... "Smart" signature move
ReplyDeleteLin suited up for the game but did not play one minute again. Meanwhile Acie Law ends up with a -16 +/-. What does that say ?
ReplyDeleteLaw makes Louis Williams look like an All-Star. But who cares, he scored 7 points .... that's all coach Smart is looking for ..... bench scoring.
Law actually played pretty well in second half.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he was basically responsible for the huge deficit Warriors gave up in first half (he was -14 in about 5 minutes of playing time, and Louis Williams was blowing by him at will).
IIRC, Warriors were down by 1 when Law entered the game, so they must have been down by 15 when he left 5 minutes later.
don't care. anyone can do well every once in 10 games. doesn't mean anything. problem is, he gets too many chances when he obviously has no upside. same thing goes with smart. his coaching has been horrible. if he wins the next game, some people would say he is "getting it now" or whatever. no, they suck and always will be no matter what. some may say i'm being biased here. but this is being realistic. lin has been playing very well but people are going to watch carefully at his mistakes. it's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWhy do people keep thinking that the key to the Warriors success is to have better scorers off the bench (which I'm assumming is why they got Thornton)? The Warriors are 7th in the NBA in scoring, and 28th (3rd to last) in points allowed. It shouldn't be hard to figure out that the Warriors need to improve their defense first and foremost.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. If you put any player under a microscope, even an all-star, you'll find tons of mistakes they make every game: couldn't get through a pick, their man blows by them, made a bad pass, missed a crucial free throw down the stretch, etc.
ReplyDeleteMonta had 6 turnovers today, only 2 assists, missed 5/7 3 ptrs, and a -11 +/-. But media and most fans will just look at his 27 points and say he had a great game.
"Warriors coach Keith Smart was heard screaming at his team in the locker room." - from AP game recap
While some of the blame belongs to the players, a lot of it is on the coach too, for his coaching, game planning, rotations, etc.
"Meanwhile Acie Law ends up with a -16 +/-."
That's pretty impressive to do in 18 mins. That will drop his team worst +/- even more.
instead of posting here... many of you who have made unbiased and substantial points should email Joe Lacob, i doubt he will ever read it or see it, but if enough emails gets piled up about how frustrated fans are with acie law and keith smart... there might be a chance he will step in and do something... who knows? (chances are, nothing will change until next season)
ReplyDeletekey arguments could be... law's team worst +/-... his lack of "upside"... his flawed defense... he probably won't be back with the team next year, why not see what you have with Lin... etc etc etc
NOTICE *** For those in the Bay Area: Can someone please bring a sign to the game that says, "Fire Smart, and Bring in the Musselmen!" or something to that nature? :) That would be awesome to see if they show it on TV. :)
ReplyDeleteJust reading the comments above, I take that Dumbo screwed things over again tonight. No amount of screaming or weeping at the team is going to change the fact that he STINKS as a NBA coach. How frustrating for JLin and the Warriors...goodness gracious! Just tell us the good news when he is gone.
Go JLin.
At this point, I would rather see Jeremy Lin go to another team.
ReplyDeletethe problem is lacob likes lin so he won't be going anywhere. and lacob can't fire dumbo until the end of the season or else it would look bad. he doesn't want to risk alienating potential coaches/players. there's no point emailing lacob either, he knows stats and lin more than any of us here. just wait til next season. expect monta and smart to be gone and law to either get limited minutes or waived. rowell and riley may still be around though, but it won't be a problem because by next season, lacob will be pulling their strings.
ReplyDeleteLacob will only be pulling his strings if there is a season. Lacob did say he will most likely pick up Lin's contract. And I don't think Lin minds too much about sitting on the bench, at least he hasn't voiced his opinion. He's getting paid. I just hope that he is developing with the team somehow. Would love to see Lin and Adrian play though. I am glad Smart finally got Lou back into the mix. Now if he can eliminate Law, I would be happy with how he is running things for at least this season.
ReplyDeletefrom the boston game...
ReplyDeleteThere was a Harvard group at TD Garden on Friday night, hoping to see inactive Warriors rookie guard Jeremy Lin play. "I remember my first game back in New Orleans," coach Smart said. "A lot of people paid to watch me sit on the bench."
heh, sounds a lil like smart tryna make jeremy suffer in the same way he did. unfair + uncool
don't worry, smart won't be suffering after this season's over.
ReplyDeleteAgain,he was the only one to be placed on the DNP list.This marks the end of JLin's career in the NBA soon or later without any doubts.
ReplyDeleteExpect big changes for the GSWs. Lacob considered trading ball hogs Curry and Ellis. I think he wants a center. How about Ellis and Curry for LA's Andrew Bynum?
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2011/03/06/lacob-talks-praising-david-lee-no-big-deadline-moves-curry-and-ellis-and-more/
The warriors don't need to trade Ellis and Curry, they are providing the offense. What they need is to let JLin play to provide the defense and transitions they need. Look at the stats against the Philli team.
ReplyDeleteGSW 39 RB vs 76ers 53, GSW 19 Assists vs 76ers 32, 9 steals vs 14 steals. See the point?
Look at Acie Law's stats - 17:38mins, 3-8fg, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 PF, 1 BA but NO TO, -16.
The stats might not show for JLin but watch him play and you'll see the score change very quickly but with Law its either stay the same or lose even more. I'm just saying.
But at this point, I just want to see GSW drop below the Clippers so Smart will be gone.
It is simply not accurate to say that the +/- stat favors Jeremy Lin. The +/- stat is not really conceived as a single-player stat. It is more meaningful as a multi-player stat. For full reference, please refer to the nba.com pages for the autotrader.com +/- stat. (quote: "The AutoTrader.com +/- stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court)
ReplyDeleteAs a team stat, it shows the following:
* radmanovic/wright/ellis/curry/lee have the best warriors +/- at +48
* the best Acie Law combo is radmanovic/lee/ ellis/admunsen/law at +11
* the best Lin combos are lee/carney/wright/curry/lin at +9 and radmanovic/ellis/williams/udoh/lin at +8
Thus, any analysis of Law versus Lin +/- really has no basis to support Lin.
Thanks to reality-now for the link. It was very informative, although I confess I'm not a "stat man," there were some interesting points:
ReplyDelete1) Acie's +11 group has a +/- per minute of 1.271
2) Lin's + 9 group has a +/- per minute of 2.368
3) Actually the best group was Rad, Ellis, BWright, Udoh and Lin with a per minute average at 3.495
4) Probably none of the combinations above are statistically valid because they didn't occur very often.
5) As a single player stat, AutoTrader says Lin is 3rd best on the team and Law is 13th.
6) For 2 player combinations, Lin's best showing is 6th partnering with Udoh. In the 50 top two player combinations, Lin's name appears 10 times. Acie appears only once, at number 19, in the top 50 two player combinations. His partner? Jeremy Lin!
7) For 3 player combinations, the best +/- per minute average occurs when Rad, Udoh, and Lin are together, or Lin, Udoh and DWright.
8) For 4 player combinations, once again Lin is in the group with the best +/- per minute. Using reality-now's methodology, Lin would be rated higher than Law, but I'm willing to call the matter moot.
10) The site only analyzes the top 50 combinations. It would be interesting to see what the worst combinations are.
At any rate, anyone who wants to rate Acie Law over Lin is fine with me. The AutoTrader Site is very interesting. I recommend it to all. It gives a good idea of how reality-now's mind works.
@reality-now:
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right. The +/- is best read as a team stat, and the autotrader.com section is a great link.
However, you are like the anti-realdsb. You try to pick the configuration of stats that are not favorable to Lin.
Using a straight highest +/- for a combo is like comparing starters to bench players by total points scored. That is, the more minutes you get usually means the more points you get (unless your name is Andris Biedrins). So the top combo is +48 but they also have, by far, the highest # of minutes together at 131.
Now if you took the +/- per minute to normalize it, that group drops to 3rd to the bottom (out of the top 25) at 0.364. Whereas, guess whose group jumps to the top? Lin/Curry/Carney/BWright/Lee at 2.6!!!
Now of course, this group only had 3+ minutes together so it isn't a very accurate picture. But if you drop it to a 3-man group, who is at the top again? Lin/Udoh/Rad at 0.884 with 31 minutes and Lin/Udoh/Wright at 1.002 with 12 minutes.
I still think the sample size is a little small. But it is certainly an indicator of effectiveness. And from watching Lin's last few appearances, I am not that surprised.
That was hilarious to watch reality-now try to use a "total" stat to force a conclusion rather than a "rate" (per game, per min, etc).
ReplyDeleteHe thinks Karl Malone was a better scorer than Jordan since Malone had more total points in their careers. He thinks Don Nelson's the greatest coach of all time because he has the most wins.
Usually I give him a "nice try", but I can't this time. Utter fail.
What can be simpler in name than 'the +/- stat'? It is a single number and nothing more. It has been used in this site repeatedly as a single number to hound Acie Law and favor Lin. But now that I have disarmed any such arguments, it turns out that we need to look at this stat 'as a rate'. Completely laughable.
ReplyDeleteReality-Now - try to keep some dignity... I actually like your posts as a counter-point to the fandom (myself included). Sometimes it's just better to call it a day on a losing argument and come up with something fresh.
ReplyDeletelmao! since when has reality-now ever made a valid point? "counter-point to the fandom".. really? some of you guys give trolls like reality-now way too much credit and the fans here too little. you act like fans here are totally biased. and when this reality-now character (or any other new name) comes around throwing out some random negative bs about lin then it makes them some kind of savior from the fandom. sheesh. i've never seen a site where trolling is so easy and effective. gullible people. well, you may be happy to hear that i won't be visiting this place anymore. tired of supporting lin against trolls AND his own fans. hopefully lin gains the respect he deserves and get some playing time but i seriously doubt it so it's a good time to take a break from it all. good luck to JLinfan#1 and this site. thanks for supporting lin. and keep it real, real-dsb. the rest of you can suck my **** lol
ReplyDeleteI am not a troll anonymous. I have been posting as Steve and SKL since the very beginning of the season rather than anonymously. I've watched Jeremy live and even drove up to Reno to catch him and I live in NY. I am a fan but don't need everyone to tell me all the time how much he/she agrees with me. I visit this blog all the time given the paucity of news and actual appearance by Jeremy during recent games.
ReplyDelete@Steve:
ReplyDeleteDon't waste your breath with anon. He has a little growing up to do. And even though he claims he won't be visiting here anymore, I think we all know that isn't a promise. Ha ha.
I think it is awesome you drove up to Reno to catch one of his games. I wish I had had the time to do so. Inexpensive seats and a lot of playing time for Lin. Win-win.
LOL, Anon is just a passionate and emotional fan. A few weeks ago, after Lin was inactive, he swore off watching the Warriors for the rest of the season. The next game, he was back on the forum commenting about the game. See you soon, anon! =)
ReplyDelete